Obama willing to go "more than half-way" on Florida and Michigan

[Ravi]

Wow, thats quite a harsh punishment you want to mete out for one press conference.

Oh, and by the way, not campaigning isn't a DNC rule, it was a voluntary pledge by the candidates.

I get it, now the pledge doesn't matter either.

 

[Jeepers]

As I said Jeepers, they should have settled this BEFORE the primary campaign went full force. florida's Majority republican congress made this decision to move the Primary up last March of 07 and Michigan was early on too, and many other states talking of moving theirs up....

You keep ignoring this part care....

"...The warning comes amid alarm over a decision Sunday by state Democratic leaders to embrace Jan. 29 as the primary date.
They are defying DNC headquarters and daring it to follow through on its threat to disqualify electors selected in the primary and punish candidates who campaign there. But the DNC is not backing down. The committee bought time with a statement late yesterday saying, “The DNC will enforce the rules as passed by its 447 members in Aug. 2006. Until the Florida State Democratic Party formally submits its plan and we’ve had the opportunity to review that submission, we will not speculate further.” http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/florida-dems-defy-dean-on-primary-date-2007-06-12.html

The DNC Neglected their responsibility and shirked the states and the citizens of all states by not facing their problem head on and come to a NEW SCHEDULE to make ALL states happy.

They tried and tried but there is no making all states happy under the current system.

This could have been a ROTATION of the First Four early states.

The DNC FAILED bigtime to consider ACTUAL CITIZENS and their VOTES, and they failed to address this problem and tried to put it off for the next leaders of the DNC on the next election....that is unacceptable and as said, a failure to be LEADERS on their part....imho!

care

The DNC considered EVERYONES vote.. the dem leaders in Florida did not... We need a primary system revamping but this is not the way to go about it.. Why is a hillary supporter getting all hot and bothered over this...

 

[Care4all]

Care with all due respect your making stuff up.. which of these candidates that appeared on the florida ballot managed to remove their names...

Florida Candidate Votes Percentage National delegates
Hillary Clinton 870,986 49.77% 0 [105]
Barack Obama 576,214 32.93% 0 [67 (69)]
John Edwards 251,562 14.38% 0 [13 (11)]
Joe Biden 15,704 0.90% 0
Bill Richardson 14,999 0.86% 0
Dennis Kucinich 9,703 0.55% 0
Christopher Dodd 5,477 0.31% 0
Mike Gravel 5,275 0.30% 0
Totals 1,749,920 100.00% 0 [185]

Yes, i did just see from Larkinn that all names were on the ballot in Florida, and I will not say this again because now I know....

Nope.. I actually think he would have beat her had his name been on the ballot..

No way. I disagree

guess its coincidence that just Hill and Kucinich were present...didnt hill plege that the votes in FL and Mi wouldnt be counted?

As I have pointed out several times, the candidates did not make an agreement with the DNC. The candidates ONLY made pledges with the 4 early states that they would not physically campaign or run ads there to the public, but were permitted in these pledges to run their fund raising campaign.

They DID NOT take any pledge with the DNC saying the votes and delegates in Florida or Michigan would not count or be seated by the delegation.

Can you understand that this would have been political suicide for any candidate to pledge that they would disenfranchise citizen voters.

O speaking to the press was a disengenuous comment.

He did speak to the press, and he DID GET PRESS COVERAGE because of it....I do believe that it was an accident on his part and that he did not realize it would be breaking the pledge that he signed.


Nope.. another disengenuous comment...

Are you saying he did not run ads in florida that were a part of his National ad campaign prior to the Primary election there? Well Jeepers, that is not what I have read on it....it says he did run the ads there?



Christ Care.. that was no press conference on any scale and .. you know that the ads were part of a nationwide ad..


So what if it was a National Ad, he PLEDGED NOT TO RUN ANY ADS in Florida before their primary....he could have made a buy without Florida or he could have waited a week and run it after the Florida Primary....he certainly broke his pledge...maybe it was by accident, but he was the ONLY ONE, to run ads in Florida campaigning.

As far as his few minutes with the press, I agree...to me this was just a few minutes and he seemed to not realize it was breaking the rules and I believe him.

The ad being a part of a nationwide ad is no excuse, hillary didn't run her national ads in Florida, why should he be allowed and also I happened to have worked in the advertising industry so I am not in an area of weakness when discussing this....and have made plenty of National ad purchases, where I could direct where my ads would go, and they ALWAYS TOLD ME UPFRONT what markets and what media my ads would run....the Obama team CHOSE to run these ads before the Florida Primary regardless.....

Why is that they chose to run this national ad before the primary in florida if they could not limit florida out of their media buy???

Was it cheating.... I dunno if i would go that far...but it CERTAINLY WAS CLOSE, if not.

As mentioned before, I believe Obama did not know any better when he met with the press...




You hill fans sure know how to grasp at the thin straws, ignoring the facts while manufacturing false controversy.. If hill takes this fight past June 4rth she will have successfully commited political suicide.. I will now pledge to move to NY and actively support any campaign against her...

If Obama does not come to a compromise with Hillary on florida and michigan and the dnc before may 31st, it is out of Hillary's hands and Obama's too I think....unless the rules committee has it that they are a part of the process somehow, which I am uncertain on?

care

 

[Jeepers]

Which is exactly why they should have disqualified Obama in Florida when he broke the rules.

It isn't rocket science.

What did the DNC say about this supposed press conference again...

 

[Jeepers]

If Obama does not come to a compromise with Hillary on florida and michigan and the dnc before may 31st, it is out of Hillary's hands and Obama's too I think....unless the rules committee has it that they are a part of the process somehow, which I am uncertain on?

care

Dont seat them then according to the rules they shouldnt be sat... I do however like they way you keep ignoring the same facts in every post..

#1.. who is to blame?
#2.. who should be involved in the solution?
#3.. what were all candidates positions [except Gravel] about the delegates from florida and michigan..
#4.. what were all candidates positions on the weight of popular vote and delegates prior to oct.

 

[Larkinn]

I get it, now the pledge doesn't matter either.

*shrug* if thats how you want to grossly misinterpret what I said, go for it.

It does matter. He fucked up. But disqualifying him in Florida is way overboard, especially since it wasn't a rule in the first place.

 

[manifold]

It was cleared up before primary season. They were told in no uncertain terms that if they hold their primaries early, they forfeit their delegates. They thought the DNC was bluffing...but they weren't. If they didn't understand the risk they were taking, they're fuktards. If they did and chose to take it anyway, they should live with the consequences and STFU.

If I were a resident of either state, I'd be pissed at the state officials that put their delegates at risk, not the DNC for making good on their warning.

 

[Ravi]

If it is a state issue I have to wonder why anyone outside of the state feels justified in expressing an opinion.

 

[Jeepers]

If it is a state issue I have to wonder why anyone outside of the state feels justified in expressing an opinion.

Let alone a presdential candidate..

 

[manifold]

If it is a state issue I have to wonder why anyone outside of the state feels justified in expressing an opinion.

It's just the way it is.

 

[Ravi]

Let alone a presdential candidate..

Since they both are they pretty much cancel each other out.

 

[Larkinn]

If it is a state issue I have to wonder why anyone outside of the state feels justified in expressing an opinion.

Its not just a state issue. The DNC decides whether to seat delegates or not, not Florida or Michigan. Florida and Michigan are the idiotic states that caused this whole brouha, they shouldn't be the ones who have all the power to decide what happens next.

By the way...3 possibilities and how many undeclared delegates Obama will need to clinch the nomination...

In the BEST case scenario for Hillary...she still needs to get 80% of remaining superdelegates to go for her.

 

[Ravi]

Calling us idiots isn't going to help with the general. Though I did read elsewhere that we aren't considered an important swing state this election...nor are Ohio or PA.

 

[Larkinn]

Calling us idiots isn't going to help with the general. Though I did read elsewhere that we aren't considered an important swing state this election...nor are Ohio or PA.

Somehow I doubt anything I say is going to have an effect on the general. And yes, the individuals in FL and MI who made the primary date Jan 29th are idiots.

 

[Jon]

I find it hilarious that people say Clinton is breaking the rules by wanting to count Michigan and Florida. She's not breaking anything. She wants the DNC to change the rule. There's a big difference.

BREAKING the rules is campaigning in Florida when the rules state that you cannot. Guess who did that? Obama. Oh, did I just say Obama made a booboo? Lynch me now.

Seriously, Obama supporters are fucking hypocritical retards. EVERYTHING Clinton does is just selfish and destructive to the Democratic party, but everything Obama does is for the good of every person in the whole entire universe. Give me a fucking break. They're both politicians, they're both selfish, they both want to win and will do whatever it takes to do so. Get off your fucking high horses, people.

Wanna talk about fair? Had Michigan and Florida counted originally, Obama would not have surpassed Hillary on Super Tuesday. A LOT of his success comes from the media declaring him the winner before the contest was even getting started. If Michigan and Florida had counted all along, Clinton would have had the comfort of that delegate lead. A lot of people gave up thinking she couldn't win, a lot of people voted for Obama just to get it over with. Had Florida and Michigan counted from the beginning, this race would be upside down.

And I laugh at whoever said Obama could have won Michigan. Get real.

 

[Larkinn]

I find it hilarious that people say Clinton is breaking the rules by wanting to count Michigan and Florida. She's not breaking anything. She wants the DNC to change the rule. There's a big difference.

And you don't find anything suspect about having a set of rules where Obama wins, then changing it after the votes are in so that Hillary wins?

BREAKING the rules is campaigning in Florida when the rules state that you cannot. Guess who did that? Obama. Oh, did I just say Obama made a booboo? Lynch me now.

Actually thats not a DNC rule.

Wanna talk about fair? Had Michigan and Florida counted originally, Obama would not have surpassed Hillary on Super Tuesday.

Considering Clinton was one of the driving forces behind not counting Michigan and Florida, how exactly is is not fair?

A LOT of his success comes from the media declaring him the winner before the contest was even getting started. If Michigan and Florida had counted all along, Clinton would have had the comfort of that delegate lead.

Complete speculation.

A lot of people gave up thinking she couldn't win, a lot of people voted for Obama just to get it over with. Had Florida and Michigan counted from the beginning, this race would be upside down.

What? Where are you all getting this stuff where everyone was saying Obama was the winner early on? I didn't hear anything like that until April, well into the primary season.

 

[Jon]

And you don't find anything suspect about having a set of rules where Obama wins, then changing it after the votes are in so that Hillary wins?

Of course I do, but it doesn't matter. Because I know, just like you do, that Obama would do the same thing.

Actually thats not a DNC rule.

Actually, you're right, it applies to candidates of any party. In fact, the rules state that campaigning in a state that is in violation would cause a candidate to forfeit all of their delegates in that state (I do not now if that includes superdelegates, it's not clear). But, Jim Roosevelt decided there would be no sanctions held against those that campaign since, technically, no delegates were at stake. So, if they decide to count Florida and Michigan, legally, Obama should not receive any delegates from Florida, if we're playing by the rules.

Considering Clinton was one of the driving forces behind not counting Michigan and Florida, how exactly is is not fair?

"A driving force" is a bit much. She didn't actively campaign to stop them, she just said she would abide by it. She assumed she could win the nomination without them, unfortunately it was one of her biggest mistakes.

I'd say the driving force in Florida was the Republican controlled congress. The DNC in Florida actually TRIED to fix the problem, but they were overruled by a Republican majority Florida Congress. It's funny that Obama is basically letting the Republicans decide who the Democratic candidate is.

What? Where are you all getting this stuff where everyone was saying Obama was the winner early on? I didn't hear anything like that until April, well into the primary season.

April is still early on. But it started early in March, after he won what...11 or 12 states in a row?

 

[Care4all]

Dont seat them then according to the rules they shouldnt be sat... I do however like they way you keep ignoring the same facts in every post..

#1.. who is to blame?
#2.. who should be involved in the solution?
#3.. what were all candidates positions [except Gravel] about the delegates from florida and michigan..
#4.. what were all candidates positions on the weight of popular vote and delegates prior to oct.

1. NOT the citizens, and certainly not hillary and not the democratic party in florida completely either jeepers...the repubs put a piece of legislation, in this same bill that determined the date, that was MUST PASS legislation for the democrats....it was a political move on the republican legislature's part that put the dems in the position where every one of them should have voted yes.....had to vote for it.

The florida dem leaders were in discussion with the repub leaders on moving their primary up, BUT NOT BEFORE new hampshire, but earlier than where they had been slotted....then, at the last minute the repub majority stuck the must pass legislation in to the bill and moved it up before new hampshires....if you go to the florida democratic party's site, it goes in to all of this, along with telling the voters to get the heck out and vote, that their voices would be heard and counted....

2. The Dnc should have found a means to solve the problem....nh could have moved their primary up a week, the dnc could have made commitments to those states wanting to primary earlier that they would revamp it but after this election, they could rotate the four early states, a number of things the DNC could have done, instead of being steadfast like bush on his stances, they could have diplomatically solved this issue instead of being ARROGANT and ELITIST about it.

3. I don't know about the other candidates or about obama, but Hillary Clinton HAS ALWAYS SAID they should be seated, from the very beginning and i read in your link provided to me that none of the candidates were too happy with the dnc's position on this...

from the link you gave me:

An official with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s (D-N.Y.) campaign said the senator would campaign and compete in every primary, but was hopeful the state party and national committee will find common ground.

The official hastened to add that the candidates don’t set the schedule.

Other campaigns seemed to be struggling with how to deal with the state party’s weekend decision to embrace the early primary.

4. the popular vote along with caucus vote, is how the delegates are divied up... delegates do not just ''appear'' at the convention based on nothing but an appointment?

but a majority of delegates including super delegates who can vote as they please and are not held to the popular vote, wins the nomination, according to the rules.

------------------------------------------
this also came from your link from June of last year...

Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) said yesterday that if the party follows through on its threats, it would effectively throw Florida, which is crucial in electoral terms, to the Republicans.

The senators warned Dean to avoid the “perception” that the national party is silencing Florida voters by enforcing the Democrats’ strict proscriptions against states that jump ahead.

As things stand, any Democratic candidate who campaigns in Florida, will have his or her delegates divided among candidates who refrain from venturing into the forbidden territory.

If what I bolded is true, then Obama should give up his delegates in Florida to Hillary Clinton, for running national ads in florida before the florida primary....what the heck is with that special glove treatment to obama by the DNC?

care

 

[Jeepers]

Um.. when was this supposed campaign in Florida.... Cause I only saw hill campaign for the two days preceding the primary...

 

[Larkinn]

Of course I do, but it doesn't matter. Because I know, just like you do, that Obama would do the same thing.

Thats nice. I wouldn't support it if it was Obama doing it either.

Actually, you're right, it applies to candidates of any party. In fact, the rules state that campaigning in a state that is in violation would cause a candidate to forfeit all of their delegates in that state (I do not now if that includes superdelegates, it's not clear). But, Jim Roosevelt decided there would be no sanctions held against those that campaign since, technically, no delegates were at stake. So, if they decide to count Florida and Michigan, legally, Obama should not receive any delegates from Florida, if we're playing by the rules.

Link to the decision?

"A driving force" is a bit much. She didn't actively campaign to stop them, she just said she would abide by it. She assumed she could win the nomination without them, unfortunately it was one of her biggest mistakes.

12 of the 30 members were active Clinton supporters. Terry McAuliffe strongly supported not counting MI or FL.

I'd say the driving force in Florida was the Republican controlled congress. The DNC in Florida actually TRIED to fix the problem, but they were overruled by a Republican majority Florida Congress. It's funny that Obama is basically letting the Republicans decide who the Democratic candidate is.

I'm talking about the national DNC.

April is still early on. But it started early in March, after he won what...11 or 12 states in a row?

Its always been back and forth. He's been the front runner for some time, but people didn't start saying he really won until North Carolina. Bloggers were saying that, but it wasn't picked up in the MSM.