Obamacare Success: Inexorably Crushing the Life out of the Insurance business

[Queecho Feecho]

Why not? It's all the fault of these horrible, greedy, blood-sucking insurance companies that so many cannot receive help when disaster strikes!!!!!

Let's get rid of them all!!!

If it is such a good idea to not deal with insurance companies, then why do millions of people make the voluntary decision to do so?

You use the term "greedy" to describe the health insurance companies. Can you show me how the average health insurance industry profit margins compare to other industries' average profit margins? Or do you have some other metric that supports the use of the term "greedy"?

 

[Queecho Feecho]

The insurance industry isn't going to suffer from PPACA, quite the opposite. It sets them up as permanent middle-men in nearly every health care transaction. You really can't do better than mandated customers.

The bolded part is partly right and partly wrong. Overall the insurance industry will get more customers, that part is the "right" part.

The "wrong" part comes in if you say the whole industry will benefit. It won't. The smaller insurance companies will struggle to navigate all the complex regulations, and will therefore face a relatively higher burden from PPACA than the larger companies. As a result some will shut down, pull out of different markets, or just get purchased by the larger companies that have massive teams of lawyers to navigate (and influence) the law.

The insurance industry isn't going to suffer from PPACA, quite the opposite. It sets them up as permanent middle-men in nearly every health care transaction. You really can't do better than mandated customers.

I agree. It's my biggest gripe with Obama care.

The funniest part of this whole health care debate is the history. Obamacare is a republican plan in virtually every way. It's almost an exact copy of the plan republicans came up with in the 90's...including the mandate.

And at the same time republicans are complaining about it being a liberal conspiracy, democrats are bitching because it isn't what they wanted.

Do yourself a favor and don't try to attach a D or an R to everything. Both of the major parties are statist in nature and seek increasing power over time. The differences are only in the specific manifestations of the power they seek.

 

[dblack]

The "wrong" part comes in if you say the whole industry will benefit. It won't. The smaller insurance companies will struggle to navigate all the complex regulations, and will therefore face a relatively higher burden from PPACA than the larger companies. As a result some will shut down, pull out of different markets, or just get purchased by the larger companies that have massive teams of lawyers to navigate (and influence) the law.

Point taken. It will benefit the dominate players in the industry - those who were instrumental in writing it.

 

[lynn63]

United Healthcare being one of them.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Obamacare is succeeding as planned, not in lowering cost, but in crushing the private insurance business so that one day the Federal government will be the bankrupt insurer of last resort.

Obama recently issued guidelines that mandate costly coverage, the carriers have to pass the cost on to the buyers, so the companies are dropping spouses from the plan.

Why your boss is dumping your wife - MarketWatch

Companies have a new solution to rising health-insurance costs: Break up their employees’ marriages.

What a deal!

There's no guidelines mandating costly coverage.

Your claim is like saying that laws requiring cars come with brakes are laws that mandate expensive cars.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Why not? It's all the fault of these horrible, greedy, blood-sucking insurance companies that so many cannot receive help when disaster strikes!!!!!

Let's get rid of them all!!!

If it is such a good idea to not deal with insurance companies, then why do millions of people make the voluntary decision to do so?

You use the term "greedy" to describe the health insurance companies. Can you show me how the average health insurance industry profit margins compare to other industries' average profit margins? Or do you have some other metric that supports the use of the term "greedy"?

Health insurance companies don't have particularly higher profit margins.

But many of them are massively inefficient. The 80% loss ratio rule is meant to require better efficiency, not to tax any windfall profits.

 

[tap4154]

Why not? It's all the fault of these horrible, greedy, blood-sucking insurance companies that so many cannot receive help when disaster strikes!!!!!

Let's get rid of them all!!!

If it is such a good idea to not deal with insurance companies, then why do millions of people make the voluntary decision to do so?

You use the term "greedy" to describe the health insurance companies. Can you show me how the average health insurance industry profit margins compare to other industries' average profit margins? Or do you have some other metric that supports the use of the term "greedy"?

Health insurance companies don't have particularly higher profit margins.

But many of them are massively inefficient. The 80% loss ratio rule is meant to require better efficiency, not to tax any windfall profits.

NONE are as inefficient as every gov't program on the books!

And the massive bureaucracy surround the ACA will be a sieve of money, and tangled mess of incompetency and confusion.

 

[t_polkow]

If it is such a good idea to not deal with insurance companies, then why do millions of people make the voluntary decision to do so?

You use the term "greedy" to describe the health insurance companies. Can you show me how the average health insurance industry profit margins compare to other industries' average profit margins? Or do you have some other metric that supports the use of the term "greedy"?

Health insurance companies don't have particularly higher profit margins.

But many of them are massively inefficient. The 80% loss ratio rule is meant to require better efficiency, not to tax any windfall profits.

NONE are as inefficient as every gov't program on the books!

And the massive bureaucracy surround the ACA will be a sieve of money, and tangled mess of incompetency and confusion.

Post some examples

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Its just astounding to see people all worried and shit about the pooooor insurance companies. Did you forget the pooooooooooooooooooooor litle pharm companies?

Nutters being nutz.

 

[dblack]

Its just astounding to see people all worried and shit about the pooooor insurance companies. Did you forget the pooooooooooooooooooooor litle pharm companies?

Nutters being nutz.

Indeed. Especially when the law actually props up the dominant players. The delusion of those who think that PPACA is an attack on corporate insurance is stunning. It's a gift to them, nothing less.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

NONE are as inefficient as every gov't program on the books!

Medicare is more efficient than most insurance companies.

 

[Queecho Feecho]

NONE are as inefficient as every gov't program on the books!

Medicare is more efficient than most insurance companies.

Please tell me you determined that by something more informed than just observing Medicare's published 3% admin expense ratio as it comparees to the admin expense ratios of private insurers.

 

[Queecho Feecho]

Why not? It's all the fault of these horrible, greedy, blood-sucking insurance companies that so many cannot receive help when disaster strikes!!!!!

Let's get rid of them all!!!

If it is such a good idea to not deal with insurance companies, then why do millions of people make the voluntary decision to do so?

You use the term "greedy" to describe the health insurance companies. Can you show me how the average health insurance industry profit margins compare to other industries' average profit margins? Or do you have some other metric that supports the use of the term "greedy"?

Health insurance companies don't have particularly higher profit margins.

But many of them are massively inefficient. The 80% loss ratio rule is meant to require better efficiency, not to tax any windfall profits.

I'm not sure you understand how the minimum loss ratio rule works. I'll illustrate with an example.

Suppose an insurance company has premium of $100, claims costs of $80, admin costs of $16, and profit of $4. They have an 80% MLR and therefore comply with the minimum loss ratio rule. (MLR = claims / premium = 80/100 = 80%, for those playing along at home)

Now suppose they figure out a new medical management program that helps keep people out of the hospital or helps people avoid expensive surgeries, thereby reducing claims costs. And that program increases admin costs a little.

So now that same insurance company goes from $80 in claims down to $70 in claims, while their admin costs go from $16 up to $20, and they price for a premium that keeps their $4 profit. So their new premium = profit + claims + admin = 4 + 70 + 20 = 94, and their new MLR = 70 / 94 = 74.5%. N

So they got more efficient by reducing medical costs, avoiding needless surgeries and hospital stays, and decreased the premiums they charge, but are now non-compliant with the MLR rule.

 

[lynn63]

Allow me to give you a real life example: I was seen at the ER for chest pain, the physician charges were $725, the insurance allowed $245.00. They paid only $43.48 and the $190.65 applied to my deductible and $10.87 applied to my co-insurance. Paid in premiums for the year was $10,168.20

The hospital fees totaled $1167.60, the insurance allowed $562.00 and that was all applied to my deductible. As you can see the insurance companies are banking my premiums and giving very little in return.

 

[Underhill]

Do yourself a favor and don't try to attach a D or an R to everything. Both of the major parties are statist in nature and seek increasing power over time. The differences are only in the specific manifestations of the power they seek.

I agree in part.

But since it is republicans primarily painting this plan as satans own handiwork, and democrats lauding it as the best thing since chocolate yogurt, with the truth somewhere in between, I have little choice.

 

[Queecho Feecho]

Allow me to give you a real life example: I was seen at the ER for chest pain, the physician charges were $725, the insurance allowed $245.00. They paid only $43.48 and the $190.65 applied to my deductible and $10.87 applied to my co-insurance. Paid in premiums for the year was $10,168.20

The hospital fees totaled $1167.60, the insurance allowed $562.00 and that was all applied to my deductible. As you can see the insurance companies are banking my premiums and giving very little in return.

The MLR isn't calculated at the individual level. To expect that reveals your lack of understanding of what insurance actually is.

 

[Oddball]

NONE are as inefficient as every gov't program on the books!

Medicare is more efficient than most insurance companies.

There's nothing efficient about anything that costs in excess of 10 times what it was projected to cost...Nothing.

 

[Underhill]

NONE are as inefficient as every gov't program on the books!

Medicare is more efficient than most insurance companies.

There's nothing efficient about anything that costs in excess of 10 times what it was projected to cost...Nothing.

By that measure nothing is efficient. Hell, I was supposed to have a flying car by now and it kinda pisses me off that I don't. Economic projections are less accurate than the weatherman.

 

[Oddball]

Medicare is more efficient than most insurance companies.

There's nothing efficient about anything that costs in excess of 10 times what it was projected to cost...Nothing.

By that measure nothing is efficient. Hell, I was supposed to have a flying car by now and it kinda pisses me off that I don't. Economic projections are less accurate than the weatherman.

Who said you were supposed to have a flying car?

 

[Antares]

You didn't really just say this?

Lets just start with this....

1) Coverages Mandated
2) Premiums mandated
3)All pre-existings MUST be covered
4) .80 cents of EVERY dollar payed toward claims....

Private insurers are for profit, the law leaves no ROOM for profit.
Educate yourself.

With all due respect you have no idea as to what you are talking about.

The insurance industry isn't going to suffer from PPACA, quite the opposite. It sets them up as permanent middle-men in nearly every health care transaction. You really can't do better than mandated customers.