Okay it's time to call bullshit....

[justoffal]

This is a complete lie. Unless they have somehow decided on a method that circumvents the natural entropy of separating hydrogen from oxygen this entire article is based on a lie.

The required energy to hydrolyze the hydrogen away from its partner O2 is roughly 150% of what you can gain from combusting the hydrogen back to the oxygen in a hydrogen combustion engine. There is no way that anyone has discovered a method of doing this on the fly internally feeding just pure water into an engine. And since the energy required to run this engine is 150% of what it can produce... If not more...
All I can see here is an investor trap.

Water engine on the move for the first time in history: breaks power records and is better than hydrogen - ECONews

According to Wood Mackenzie data, by the end of 2022, projects linked to this element increased their production by a total of 11.1 million metric tons

www.ecoticias.com

 

[Donald H]

This is a complete lie. Unless they have somehow decided on a method that circumvents the natural entropy of separating hydrogen from oxygen this entire article is based on a lie.

The required energy to hydrolyze the hydrogen away from its partner O2 is roughly 150% of what you can gain from combusting the hydrogen back to the oxygen in a hydrogen combustion engine. There is no way that anyone has discovered a method of doing this on the fly internally feeding just pure water into an engine. And since the energy required to run this engine is 150% of what it can produce... If not more...
All I can see here is an investor trap.

Water engine on the move for the first time in history: breaks power records and is better than hydrogen - ECONews

According to Wood Mackenzie data, by the end of 2022, projects linked to this element increased their production by a total of 11.1 million metric tons

www.ecoticias.com

The question is: Is it clean energy used to extract Hydrogen?

Drastic situations might call for drastic meeasures. I'm pretty sure that they're not trying to pull the wool over people's eyes.
I too have suspected the gains from hydrogen power, but I'm not sure it's as you're stating it. It's a bit more complicated than you're suggesting.

In any case, there's no way there can be a logical discussion on this board, and the moderators will see it as a waste of time trying to help.

 

[Donald H]

This is a complete lie. Unless they have somehow decided on a method that circumvents the natural entropy of separating hydrogen from oxygen this entire article is based on a lie.

The required energy to hydrolyze the hydrogen away from its partner O2 is roughly 150% of what you can gain from combusting the hydrogen back to the oxygen in a hydrogen combustion engine. There is no way that anyone has discovered a method of doing this on the fly internally feeding just pure water into an engine. And since the energy required to run this engine is 150% of what it can produce... If not more...
All I can see here is an investor trap.

Water engine on the move for the first time in history: breaks power records and is better than hydrogen - ECONews

According to Wood Mackenzie data, by the end of 2022, projects linked to this element increased their production by a total of 11.1 million metric tons

www.ecoticias.com

Your link isn't supportive of hydrogen engines??

 

[justoffal]

The question is: Is it clean energy used to extract Hydrogen?

Drastic situations might call for drastic meeasures. I'm pretty sure that they're not trying to pull the wool over people's eyes.
I too have suspected the gains from hydrogen power, but I'm not sure it's as you're stating it. It's a bit more complicated than you're suggesting.

In any case, there's no way there can be a logical discussion on this board, and the moderators will see it as a waste of time trying to help.

The hydrogen can certainly be extracted by means of a solar powered hydrolysis plant, a very slow and low production process that would require a complete change in everyone's travel habits. Having said that I do believe we need to change our travel habits. Commuting should become a thing of the past and trips out to the grocery store and so forth should be kept to a minimum. Pleasure cruising unfortunately is on its way to becoming extinct.

However this particular article should be stricken from public examination because it doesn't even begin to answer the question of how water is instantaneously hydrolyzed inside of this unit before it is then recombusted.

The short answer here of course is that it is completely impossible.

 

[mamooth]

I didn't see anything in the link claiming it was a free energy machine. It just said the engine burned hydrogen more effectively.

 

[Donald H]

The hydrogen can certainly be extracted by means of a solar powered hydrolysis plant, a very slow and low production process that would require a complete change in everyone's travel habits. Having said that I do believe we need to change our travel habits. Commuting should become a thing of the past and trips out to the grocery store and so forth should be kept to a minimum. Pleasure cruising unfortunately is on its way to becoming extinct.

However this particular article should be stricken from public examination because it doesn't even begin to answer the question of how water is instantaneously hydrolyzed inside of this unit before it is then recombusted.

The short answer here of course is that it is completely impossible.

I think the relevant point is whether or not the energy used to convert is clean energy. At this point in time and maybe forever, it's not going to become our only option to replace hydrocarbons.

But all the solutions need to be considered together, as well as an understanding that energy consumption will be reduced, as you suggest.

We've sort of defused your original complaint don't you think?

 

[justoffal]

I think the relevant point is whether or not the energy used to convert is clean energy. At this point in time and maybe forever, it's not going to become our only option to replace hydrocarbons.

But all the solutions need to be considered together, as well as an understanding that energy consumption will be reduced, as you suggest.

We've sort of defused your original complaint don't you think?

I don't think my complaint has been defused. We're talking about a production process that uses more energy than it provides. Totally unsustainable in the long run. It's like changing the balance from One credit card to another all the time increasing the balance.

 

[justoffal]

I didn't see anything in the link claiming it was a free energy machine. It just said the engine burned hydrogen more effectively.

Never once mentioned how. Additionally they claim to use water which is absolutely demonstrably false.
The article is absolute BS.

 

[Captain Caveman]

This is a complete lie. Unless they have somehow decided on a method that circumvents the natural entropy of separating hydrogen from oxygen this entire article is based on a lie.

The required energy to hydrolyze the hydrogen away from its partner O2 is roughly 150% of what you can gain from combusting the hydrogen back to the oxygen in a hydrogen combustion engine. There is no way that anyone has discovered a method of doing this on the fly internally feeding just pure water into an engine. And since the energy required to run this engine is 150% of what it can produce... If not more...
All I can see here is an investor trap.

Water engine on the move for the first time in history: breaks power records and is better than hydrogen - ECONews

According to Wood Mackenzie data, by the end of 2022, projects linked to this element increased their production by a total of 11.1 million metric tons

www.ecoticias.com

The co2 pile of crap has never slowed me down on how many logs I chuck on the fire.

 

[Donald H]

I don't think my complaint has been defused. We're talking about a production process that uses more energy than it provides.

That might be correct.

Totally unsustainable in the long run. It's like changing the balance from One credit card to another all the time increasing the balance.

Sustainability might not be important to those who like it. Maybe we could consider that the hydrogen could be sold to the public for only the cost of producing it?

Or, consider the cost before profits of gasoline and consider hydrogen by this method, with no profits to consider. Only the original cost of this engine and maintenance.

. Socialism has some advantages when necessity is driving new solutions!

 

[Donald H]

Never once mentioned how. Additionally they claim to use water which is absolutely demonstrably false.
The article is absolute BS.

Well that was your point on why you posted it!
That's what is defused, if you want to explore it further.

I'm not interested in a debate so don't fuk with me if you are interested in a decent discussion. It's hardly possible on this board without me.

And you too most of the time!

 

[mamooth]

Never once mentioned how. Additionally they claim to use water which is absolutely demonstrably false.

They claim to use water jets as part of the fuel injection process. They never claim they're using water as fuel.

 

[justoffal]

That might be correct.

Sustainability might not be important to those who like it. Maybe we could consider that the hydrogen could be sold to the public for only the cost of producing it?

Or, consider the cost before profits of gasoline and consider hydrogen by this method, with no profits to consider. Only the original cost of this engine and maintenance.

. Socialism has some advantages when necessity is driving new solutions!

Well said

 

[sparky]

I didn't see anything in the link claiming it was a free energy machine.

~S~

 

[justoffal]

~S~

They fail in the basics of physics. No process can be sustained which uses more energy than it produces. First law of thermodynamics and zeroth law.

 

[sparky]

They fail in the basics of physics. No process can be sustained which uses more energy than it produces. First law of thermal dynamics and zeroth law.

jocularity aside , that was my point JO

the renewable industry is entirely disingenuous, relying on the math challenged virtue signaling to legislate picking our pockets

~S~

 

[justoffal]

jocularity aside , that was my point JO

the renewable industry is entirely disingenuous, relying on the math challenged virtue signaling to legislate picking our pockets

~S~

Lol..... Here I am quoting the laws of thermodynamics at the same time misspelling it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't think my complaint has been defused. We're talking about a production process that uses more energy than it provides. Totally unsustainable in the long run. It's like changing the balance from One credit card to another all the time increasing the balance.

I don't think that's the claim. If it were, it'd be so revolutionary they'd be talking about that instead

 

[justoffal]

I don't think that's the claim. If it were, it'd be so revolutionary they'd be talking about that instead

They're basically selling something that's doomed to fail. Sure it's very gimmicky and politically correct but it's also impossible, or the very least highly impractical. You're spending 55 kilowatt hours of energy to hydrolyze one mole of hydrogen so it can be recombined with the oxygen you just separated it from for a net gain of about 35 Kilowatt hours. Massively entropic.

 

[frigidweirdo]

They're basically selling something that's doomed to fail. Sure it's very gimmicky and politically correct but it's also impossible, or the very least highly impractical. You're spending 55 kilowatt hours of energy to hydrolyze one mole of hydrogen so it can be recombined with the oxygen you just separated it from for a net gain of about 35 Kilowatt hours. Massively entropic.

Well, I think the article is sufficiently vague that it's difficult to know what is what.