Oklahoma banned students could sue the college and win big

[jillian]

time.com/3739268/sigma-alpha-epsilon-university-of-oklahoma-expel-free-speech/

I don't know if you're responding to me. but SAE is not the same as the university.

The article says they "may" be on shaky ground expelling them.

I wish the right were so supportive of the ACLU and other similar groups when they didn't protect racists.

 

[Carla_Danger]

SAE's "Founders Day" celebration --- March 9, 2015.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Offensive as it was, I don't agree with a policy of automatic expulsion from school of these kids for using that word. Everybody fucks up.

I agree with this.

 

[emilynghiem]

If there wasn't a code or rule being violated, then the college just censored free speech and on top of it slandered these students reputation by publicizing this situation in the way that they did, and potentially did financial harm to them.

It's a "public" university. Free speech could have been violated a right granted to every citizen no matter what they say under article 1 of the constitution.

Hi Judicial review and thanks for standing up for the side that isn't being heard for all the hoopla over the R and N word.

Yes and no.

The University has policies about not creating a hostile environment.
One of the students who videotaped the chant felt this was hostile, and exposed it.

There was nothing wrong with protesting the chants, and the University following up with protocol within their policies.
The SAE also has the right to disband a group they find as failing to meet their standards and policies.

These groups have the right to act in this way.

Where I MIGHT agree with you, is if people conspire to retaliate, if they abuse free speech to slander or harass the students further, that might be excessive.

Frankly I believe it would be more productive, constructive and corrective for the student body to work WITH the students to address the matter.

I started a thread, asking should there be other corrections or restitution. And one of the poll options was to let the students work out a plan for resolving the conflict.

The peer counseling, mediation models, honor system/consensus penalties,
and teen court programs I've looked at are very effective
in empowering students to resolve noncriminal issues like violations of school policy.

I would have supported the students in addressing this, since both the chants were
led by students, participated in, and videotaped. I would trust the students to work out a solution
and use this as a good exercise in petitioning to redress grievances.

Thanks Judicial

There have been a couple of cases of free speech and school policy violations
at my own alma mater that I believe could be better resolved by a joint review by students and faculty
so the community takes full ownership and responsibility for both the rules, infractions and consequences
for deterrence, correction and prevention. I believe the restorative justice approach works better in such cases.

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[Liminal]

Offensive as it was, I don't agree with a policy of automatic expulsion from school of these kids for using that word. Everybody fucks up.

How long before T-shirts with little nooses hanging from UO's logo began showing up?

The reputation of the school was on the line. The school had no choice but to eject these little racist shitheads.

And the assholes made it clear they were not signing up blacks to their frat. That's discrimination.

IMO, everybody fucks up and deserves a second chance.

Perhaps they should have been made to host a party for the OU football and basketball teams?

You are absolutely right, everyone deserves a second chance. I think we should give these young men the opportunity to demonstrate acknowledgement of their profound regret. Everything possible should be done to facilitate the rehabilitation of their reputations. I believe the best way to start would be to provide all these fine young gentlemen with scholarships to Howard University.

 

[Redfish]

Shouldn't they start by appealing their expulsions according to university procedure?

hell no. why would they want back in when they can sue for additional damages of the university slandering their reputation, and use that as an excuse to why they can't attend ANY college. Expulsions follow you and are on your record. You have to disclose that to any university you apply for.

They won't be satisfied until these kid's heads are on pikes and lives ruined. It's the leftist way

So much for personal responsibility....

does your comment apply to Sharpton inciting a riot in ferguson on a lie? should he be held liable? how about obama for claiming that Zimmerman was guilty? should he be held responsible for his words?

Why don't you stick to the topic. These kids either violated rules in a sufficient measure to warrant their expulsion, or they didn't.

Oklahoma University has no jurisdiction over Al Sharpton.

no, but the way you libs are attacking and assigning guilt to these kids is in complete contrast with they way you all looked the other way when Sharpton did something much worse.

I am trying to point out the liberal hypocrisy here. and doing it quite well, I might add.

 

[Redfish]

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oklahoma-fraternity-fallout-20150310-story.html
Expulsion on shaky legal foundation

These kids will be forced to fight the college. Just watch this explode in the coming weeks.

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE will be labled a racist fraternity across the nation. A student considering a fraternity will now be mocked if they mention SAE as a possibility. Their brand has been damaged

There has been permanent damage done to the fraternity by the bunch singing on the bus. They should all be sued and forced to pay damages to both SAE and the university

you are truly an idiot.

 

[Redfish]

Offensive as it was, I don't agree with a policy of automatic expulsion from school of these kids for using that word. Everybody fucks up.

How long before T-shirts with little nooses hanging from UO's logo began showing up?

The reputation of the school was on the line. The school had no choice but to eject these little racist shitheads.

And the assholes made it clear they were not signing up blacks to their frat. That's discrimination.

there are all black fraternities, are they racist? will you demand that they initiate whites?

 

[Redfish]

Discrimination. Creating a hostile environment. "There will never be a ****** SAE. You can hang 'em from a tree, but they will never sign with me."

Case closed.

Saying something is not discrimination.
They didnt create a hostile environment. They were on a bus. The person who made and released the video created the environment. Even so, "creating a hostile environment" is bullshit. There is no reasonable definition of it anywhere and it loses every time it comes up in law.

The person who made and released the video created the environment.

Too funny

That is rich!

But true.
If this were 30 years ago would any of this be an issue? No. It was the video, not the incident that created any hostile environment.

People can now get tickets for driving violations, due to the police red light cameras. Is it the police departments fault when someone gets a speeding ticket, or is it the the person driving the car?

those camera tickets have been declared illegal and unenforceable.

 

[Carla_Danger]

These kids will be forced to fight the college. Just watch this explode in the coming weeks.

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE will be labled a racist fraternity across the nation. A student considering a fraternity will now be mocked if they mention SAE as a possibility. Their brand has been damaged

There has been permanent damage done to the fraternity by the bunch singing on the bus. They should all be sued and forced to pay damages to both SAE and the university

you are truly an idiot.

 

[Redfish]

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE will be labled a racist fraternity across the nation. A student considering a fraternity will now be mocked if they mention SAE as a possibility. Their brand has been damaged

There has been permanent damage done to the fraternity by the bunch singing on the bus. They should all be sued and forced to pay damages to both SAE and the university

you are truly an idiot.

 

[rightwinger]

These kids will be forced to fight the college. Just watch this explode in the coming weeks.

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE will be labled a racist fraternity across the nation. A student considering a fraternity will now be mocked if they mention SAE as a possibility. Their brand has been damaged

There has been permanent damage done to the fraternity by the bunch singing on the bus. They should all be sued and forced to pay damages to both SAE and the university

you are truly an idiot.

More damage was done to SAE and the University

The students should be sued for their wilfull misconduct

 

[The Rabbi]

Just saw the video. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can understand where the University is coming from. The students could win a lawsuit though. But i think they've already decided against filing. If you're part of a University, you represent that University. So you do have to be careful. The University has to cover its own ass.

But that being said, It is a murky issue as far as Free Speech goes. The students might have had a legal argument, but it was wise not pursuing it. Best to let it go. What they said was pretty rough. Very few will rush to their defense.

People have said way worse and found legal counsel and won. These kids will be FORCED to pursue this. There lives can't get any worse. They are already receiving death threats.

They put the University in a very bad position. It has to cover its own ass. They're out. And that's that.

You dont cover your ass by violating someone's civil rights. I agree thats probably how they saw it. It was cowardly and wrong.

 

[The Rabbi]

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oklahoma-fraternity-fallout-20150310-story.html
Expulsion on shaky legal foundation

These kids will be forced to fight the college. Just watch this explode in the coming weeks.

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE will be labled a racist fraternity across the nation. A student considering a fraternity will now be mocked if they mention SAE as a possibility. Their brand has been damaged

There has been permanent damage done to the fraternity by the bunch singing on the bus. They should all be sued and forced to pay damages to both SAE and the university

The national chapter kicked them out. How did you miss that? Besides, you were labeling them racist long before this came up.

 

[emilynghiem]

If there wasn't a code or rule being violated, then the college just censored free speech and on top of it slandered these students reputation by publicizing this situation in the way that they did, and potentially did financial harm to them.

It's a "public" university. Free speech could have been violated a right granted to every citizen no matter what they say under article 1 of the constitution.

Even if OU were to lose the suit, they still saved their "brand"

The brand that says you can't say something unless we approve of it? Trust me if you think these suits are the only ones possible like the other poster said, "any minority that feels their well being at the college has been subject to what the college expelled these students for can also sue.

If I were these kids I'd look to make a statement of all statement. I'd also try to sucker Obama and Al Sharpton in it also. Take them all down. Sue the college to where it stings and stings bad. At least 100 million and make them pay all attorney fees on top of it.

Well, good luck with that.

I suggest anybody who wants to protect free speech on campuses and in America start a fundraiser for these students to do exactly this what I'm suggesting.

Hey Judicial review
I'll go in with you on this idea of setting up a fundraiser,
but not for a lawsuit which is counterproductive.

I'd suggest setting up a paid internship so these students can excel and gain leadership experience
while address REAL issues that should be protested, if the public is so concerned about racial oppression and inequality.

I would like to contact the school officials and fraternity chapters
and ask for help to set up the Campus Plans in Freedmen's Town
to train future leaders in government. Freedmen s Town Historic Churches and Vet Housing

If these students want to participate in something meaningful, I'm all for
helping to raise funds so the students can take ownership and responsibility for resolving REAL issues of racial injustice.

 

[The Rabbi]

Discrimination. Creating a hostile environment. "There will never be a ****** SAE. You can hang 'em from a tree, but they will never sign with me."

Case closed.

Saying something is not discrimination.
They didnt create a hostile environment. They were on a bus. The person who made and released the video created the environment. Even so, "creating a hostile environment" is bullshit. There is no reasonable definition of it anywhere and it loses every time it comes up in law.

The person who made and released the video created the environment.

Too funny

That is rich!

But true.
If this were 30 years ago would any of this be an issue? No. It was the video, not the incident that created any hostile environment.

People can now get tickets for driving violations, due to the police red light cameras. Is it the police departments fault when someone gets a speeding ticket, or is it the the person driving the car?

So now you support the police in everythig they do? Little brownshirter.

 

[paulitician]

Just saw the video. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can understand where the University is coming from. The students could win a lawsuit though. But i think they've already decided against filing. If you're part of a University, you represent that University. So you do have to be careful. The University has to cover its own ass.

But that being said, It is a murky issue as far as Free Speech goes. The students might have had a legal argument, but it was wise not pursuing it. Best to let it go. What they said was pretty rough. Very few will rush to their defense.

People have said way worse and found legal counsel and won. These kids will be FORCED to pursue this. There lives can't get any worse. They are already receiving death threats.

They put the University in a very bad position. It has to cover its own ass. They're out. And that's that.

You dont cover your ass by violating someone's civil rights. I agree thats probably how they saw it. It was cowardly and wrong.

You want Al Sharpton and the other Dem Race-Baiter loons camping out at your place for months? They gave the University no choice. They blew it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Just saw the video. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can understand where the University is coming from. The students could win a lawsuit though. But i think they've already decided against filing. If you're part of a University, you represent that University. So you do have to be careful. The University has to cover its own ass.

But that being said, It is a murky issue as far as Free Speech goes. The students might have had a legal argument, but it's wise not pursuing it. Best to let it go. What they said was pretty rough. Very few will rush to their defense.

Best to let it go? Seriously? They will have an expulsion on their records. They need to fight like hell. They were off campus in a private setting on the way to a private event.
Would you like your employer to fire you because of a joke you told at a dinner party somewhere?

Why does it matter where they were at? They are still representing their fraternity since they were traveling as a frat.

From the looks and sounds of it, it was much more than a joke as well.

If they were off campus the university has no say in what they did.

How do you know?

Check the video.

 

[The Rabbi]

These kids will be forced to fight the college. Just watch this explode in the coming weeks.

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE will be labled a racist fraternity across the nation. A student considering a fraternity will now be mocked if they mention SAE as a possibility. Their brand has been damaged

There has been permanent damage done to the fraternity by the bunch singing on the bus. They should all be sued and forced to pay damages to both SAE and the university

I don't know. If SAE hadn't disbanded the chapter and dumped the kids, I might agree. But I think SAE saved its reputation by acting.

I don't think SAE has a cause of action and I don't think the kids have a cause of action against the chartering organization.

You just dont think, period.

 

[The Rabbi]

Just saw the video. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can understand where the University is coming from. The students could win a lawsuit though. But i think they've already decided against filing. If you're part of a University, you represent that University. So you do have to be careful. The University has to cover its own ass.

But that being said, It is a murky issue as far as Free Speech goes. The students might have had a legal argument, but it was wise not pursuing it. Best to let it go. What they said was pretty rough. Very few will rush to their defense.

People have said way worse and found legal counsel and won. These kids will be FORCED to pursue this. There lives can't get any worse. They are already receiving death threats.

They put the University in a very bad position. It has to cover its own ass. They're out. And that's that.

You dont cover your ass by violating someone's civil rights. I agree thats probably how they saw it. It was cowardly and wrong.

You want Al Sharpton and the other Dem Race-Baiter loons camping out at your place for months? They gave the University no choice. They blew it.

Bullshit. The university should have had the students take some class on racial sensitivity or some bullshit, suspended the students from the fraternity for 2-3 semesters, and issued a statement that while they deplore the conduct they respect the right of free speech and free association and be done with it.