Oklahoma banned students could sue the college and win big

[jillian]

Just saw the video. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can understand where the University is coming from. The students could win a lawsuit though. But i think they've already decided against filing. If you're part of a University, you represent that University. So you do have to be careful. The University has to cover its own ass.

But that being said, It is a murky issue as far as Free Speech goes. The students might have had a legal argument, but it was wise not pursuing it. Best to let it go. What they said was pretty rough. Very few will rush to their defense.

If free speech were limitless under these circumstances, you'd be right.

These boys were an embarrassment to their frat and to their school. To be fair I was surprised they were expelled. But I've never seen the university charter/rules. And we don't know if they were scholarship students. There is a lot of latitude on the part of the institution under certain circumstances.

 

[The Rabbi]

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oklahoma-fraternity-fallout-20150310-story.html
Expulsion on shaky legal foundation

These kids will be forced to fight the college. Just watch this explode in the coming weeks.

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

 

[jillian]

Expelling someone is a quasi judicial act, and doing so is prosecuting someone.
Speech codes at universities lose most of the time in court.
Free speech on public college campuses overview First Amendment Center news commentary analysis on free speech press religion assembly petition

Quasi judicial? Really?

You never heard the term, counselor?

I have. But what proceeding occurred? It doesn't seem they are challenging the expulsion

The university's chancellor made a determination. He was judge, jury and executioner. The students had no appeal, no chance to state their case.
They arent challenging it yet. But wait. IT is a clear case of curbing free speech and the university is way beyond the bounds.

What planet are you from?

Yep. They have the right to bring a challenge. I don't think they will.

 

[Redfish]

Offensive as it was, I don't agree with a policy of automatic expulsion from school of these kids for using that word. Everybody fucks up.

rarely do I agree with you.

 

[Judicial review]

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oklahoma-fraternity-fallout-20150310-story.html
Expulsion on shaky legal foundation

These kids will be forced to fight the college. Just watch this explode in the coming weeks.

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

You just said there free speech was violated. That's all you needed to say, because that's all that matters. This is way bigger then the college of OU this is EVERY public college and where do you draw the line? The line needs to be drawn for the sake of EVERY American.

 

[rightwinger]

I expect the college to cave and let them back in. They do not want a media circus.

The kids can't ever accept that. There lives or well being is now endangered and the school allowed it to happen and made it worse. They will sue the all the way to the US supreme court IF it ever gets that far. This is a clear cut victory for the kids. They are in it might as well get something for it because IT is with them for life now.

What planet are you from? They have already admitted guilt and issued an apology.

What were they guilty of that warranted expulsion?

Discrimination. Creating a hostile environment. "There will never be a ****** SAE. You can hang 'em from a tree, but they will never sign with me."

Case closed.

Saying something is not discrimination.
They didnt create a hostile environment. They were on a bus. The person who made and released the video created the environment. Even so, "creating a hostile environment" is bullshit. There is no reasonable definition of it anywhere and it loses every time it comes up in law.

The person who made and released the video created the environment.

Too funny

 

[The Rabbi]

Expelling someone is a quasi judicial act, and doing so is prosecuting someone.
Speech codes at universities lose most of the time in court.
Free speech on public college campuses overview First Amendment Center news commentary analysis on free speech press religion assembly petition

Quasi judicial? Really?

You never heard the term, counselor?

I have. But what proceeding occurred? It doesn't seem they are challenging the expulsion

The university's chancellor made a determination. He was judge, jury and executioner. The students had no appeal, no chance to state their case.
They arent challenging it yet. But wait. IT is a clear case of curbing free speech and the university is way beyond the bounds.

What planet are you from?

Thanks for proving my point. He "made a determination". Tht is judicial language. Judges make determinations. He is giving them a right of appeal. That is judicial in nature.
The school violated many civil rights of these students. The school deserves to be sued.

 

[jillian]

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oklahoma-fraternity-fallout-20150310-story.html
Expulsion on shaky legal foundation

These kids will be forced to fight the college. Just watch this explode in the coming weeks.

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

 

[Manonthestreet]

time.com/3739268/sigma-alpha-epsilon-university-of-oklahoma-expel-free-speech/

 

[Redfish]

Why don't we all just sit back and watch this play out and then comment on the outcome?

none of us have all the information, so we are mostly speculating.

 

[The Rabbi]

Just saw the video. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can understand where the University is coming from. The students could win a lawsuit though. But i think they've already decided against filing. If you're part of a University, you represent that University. So you do have to be careful. The University has to cover its own ass.

But that being said, It is a murky issue as far as Free Speech goes. The students might have had a legal argument, but it was wise not pursuing it. Best to let it go. What they said was pretty rough. Very few will rush to their defense.

If free speech were limitless under these circumstances, you'd be right.

These boys were an embarrassment to their frat and to their school. To be fair I was surprised they were expelled. But I've never seen the university charter/rules. And we don't know if they were scholarship students. There is a lot of latitude on the part of the institution under certain circumstances.

Reductio ad absurdum argument. You're racking them up, "counselor".
Free speech certainly covers this case. Being an embarassment is not a crime. Look at Joe Biden. Nor does it warrant expulsion. The university does not unlimited power to expel people at whim.

 

[The Rabbi]

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oklahoma-fraternity-fallout-20150310-story.html
Expulsion on shaky legal foundation

These kids will be forced to fight the college. Just watch this explode in the coming weeks.

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE national's actions are irrelevant here, "counselor". SAE has every right to choose whom they want in their fraternity. Right?

 

[The Rabbi]

Why don't we all just sit back and watch this play out and then comment on the outcome?

none of us have all the information, so we are mostly speculating.

What kind of fun would that be?

 

[jillian]

Just saw the video. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can understand where the University is coming from. The students could win a lawsuit though. But i think they've already decided against filing. If you're part of a University, you represent that University. So you do have to be careful. The University has to cover its own ass.

But that being said, It is a murky issue as far as Free Speech goes. The students might have had a legal argument, but it was wise not pursuing it. Best to let it go. What they said was pretty rough. Very few will rush to their defense.

If free speech were limitless under these circumstances, you'd be right.

These boys were an embarrassment to their frat and to their school. To be fair I was surprised they were expelled. But I've never seen the university charter/rules. And we don't know if they were scholarship students. There is a lot of latitude on the part of the institution under certain circumstances.

Reductio ad absurdum argument. You're racking them up, "counselor".
Free speech certainly covers this case. Being an embarassment is not a crime. Look at Joe Biden. Nor does it warrant expulsion. The university does not unlimited power to expel people at whim.

Because a pathetic loser like yourself says so?

Lol step away from the keyboard while you have a shred of dignity.

 

[Carla_Danger]

The kids can't ever accept that. There lives or well being is now endangered and the school allowed it to happen and made it worse. They will sue the all the way to the US supreme court IF it ever gets that far. This is a clear cut victory for the kids. They are in it might as well get something for it because IT is with them for life now.

What planet are you from? They have already admitted guilt and issued an apology.

What were they guilty of that warranted expulsion?

Discrimination. Creating a hostile environment. "There will never be a ****** SAE. You can hang 'em from a tree, but they will never sign with me."

Case closed.

Saying something is not discrimination.
They didnt create a hostile environment. They were on a bus. The person who made and released the video created the environment. Even so, "creating a hostile environment" is bullshit. There is no reasonable definition of it anywhere and it loses every time it comes up in law.

The person who made and released the video created the environment.

Too funny

That is rich!

 

[Carla_Danger]

Just saw the video. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can understand where the University is coming from. The students could win a lawsuit though. But i think they've already decided against filing. If you're part of a University, you represent that University. So you do have to be careful. The University has to cover its own ass.

But that being said, It is a murky issue as far as Free Speech goes. The students might have had a legal argument, but it was wise not pursuing it. Best to let it go. What they said was pretty rough. Very few will rush to their defense.

If free speech were limitless under these circumstances, you'd be right.

These boys were an embarrassment to their frat and to their school. To be fair I was surprised they were expelled. But I've never seen the university charter/rules. And we don't know if they were scholarship students. There is a lot of latitude on the part of the institution under certain circumstances.

Reductio ad absurdum argument. You're racking them up, "counselor".
Free speech certainly covers this case. Being an embarassment is not a crime. Look at Joe Biden. Nor does it warrant expulsion. The university does not unlimited power to expel people at whim.

Because a pathetic loser like yourself says so?

Lol step away from the keyboard while you have a shred of dignity.

Too late!

 

[The Rabbi]

Just saw the video. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can understand where the University is coming from. The students could win a lawsuit though. But i think they've already decided against filing. If you're part of a University, you represent that University. So you do have to be careful. The University has to cover its own ass.

But that being said, It is a murky issue as far as Free Speech goes. The students might have had a legal argument, but it was wise not pursuing it. Best to let it go. What they said was pretty rough. Very few will rush to their defense.

If free speech were limitless under these circumstances, you'd be right.

These boys were an embarrassment to their frat and to their school. To be fair I was surprised they were expelled. But I've never seen the university charter/rules. And we don't know if they were scholarship students. There is a lot of latitude on the part of the institution under certain circumstances.

Reductio ad absurdum argument. You're racking them up, "counselor".
Free speech certainly covers this case. Being an embarassment is not a crime. Look at Joe Biden. Nor does it warrant expulsion. The university does not unlimited power to expel people at whim.

Because a pathetic loser like yourself says so?

Lol step away from the keyboard while you have a shred of dignity.

Ah you've lost the argument so now you deflect to the ad homs.
Proving you are a poseur fake, "counselor". Your defeat here is acknowledged.

 

[The Rabbi]

What planet are you from? They have already admitted guilt and issued an apology.

What were they guilty of that warranted expulsion?

Discrimination. Creating a hostile environment. "There will never be a ****** SAE. You can hang 'em from a tree, but they will never sign with me."

Case closed.

Saying something is not discrimination.
They didnt create a hostile environment. They were on a bus. The person who made and released the video created the environment. Even so, "creating a hostile environment" is bullshit. There is no reasonable definition of it anywhere and it loses every time it comes up in law.

The person who made and released the video created the environment.

Too funny

That is rich!

But true.
If this were 30 years ago would any of this be an issue? No. It was the video, not the incident that created any hostile environment.

 

[rickm19]

Just saw the video. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can understand where the University is coming from. The students could win a lawsuit though. But i think they've already decided against filing. If you're part of a University, you represent that University. So you do have to be careful. The University has to cover its own ass.

But that being said, It is a murky issue as far as Free Speech goes. The students might have had a legal argument, but it's wise not pursuing it. Best to let it go. What they said was pretty rough. Very few will rush to their defense.

Best to let it go? Seriously? They will have an expulsion on their records. They need to fight like hell. They were off campus in a private setting on the way to a private event.
Would you like your employer to fire you because of a joke you told at a dinner party somewhere?

Why does it matter where they were at? They are still representing their fraternity since they were traveling as a frat.

From the looks and sounds of it, it was much more than a joke as well.

 

[The Rabbi]

Just saw the video. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can understand where the University is coming from. The students could win a lawsuit though. But i think they've already decided against filing. If you're part of a University, you represent that University. So you do have to be careful. The University has to cover its own ass.

But that being said, It is a murky issue as far as Free Speech goes. The students might have had a legal argument, but it's wise not pursuing it. Best to let it go. What they said was pretty rough. Very few will rush to their defense.

Best to let it go? Seriously? They will have an expulsion on their records. They need to fight like hell. They were off campus in a private setting on the way to a private event.
Would you like your employer to fire you because of a joke you told at a dinner party somewhere?

Why does it matter where they were at? They are still representing their fraternity since they were traveling as a frat.

From the looks and sounds of it, it was much more than a joke as well.

If they were off campus the university has no say in what they did.