Oklahoma banned students could sue the college and win big

[jillian]

People have said way worse and found legal counsel and won. These kids will be FORCED to pursue this. There lives can't get any worse. They are already receiving death threats.

They put the University in a very bad position. It has to cover its own ass. They're out. And that's that.

You dont cover your ass by violating someone's civil rights. I agree thats probably how they saw it. It was cowardly and wrong.

You want Al Sharpton and the other Dem Race-Baiter loons camping out at your place for months? They gave the University no choice. They blew it.

Bullshit. The university should have had the students take some class on racial sensitivity or some bullshit, suspended the students from the fraternity for 2-3 semesters, and issued a statement that while they deplore the conduct they respect the right of free speech and free association and be done with it.

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely. But these are different times. Businesses are routinely firing employees over Facebook postings. '9/11 changed everything.' Haven't you heard? Welcome to the new America. Enjoy.

it doesn't have to do with 9/11. it does in part have to do with social media and the lack of expectation of privacy in people's communications.

 

[BlindBoo]

So start with those black panther members that were chanting to kill whitey

Ah, you want to kick them out of school, disband their frat house or what?

 

[jillian]

If there wasn't a code or rule being violated, then the college just censored free speech and on top of it slandered these students reputation by publicizing this situation in the way that they did, and potentially did financial harm to them.

It's a "public" university. Free speech could have been violated a right granted to every citizen no matter what they say under article 1 of the constitution.

Even if OU were to lose the suit, they still saved their "brand"

The brand that says you can't say something unless we approve of it? Trust me if you think these suits are the only ones possible like the other poster said, "any minority that feels their well being at the college has been subject to what the college expelled these students for can also sue.

If I were these kids I'd look to make a statement of all statement. I'd also try to sucker Obama and Al Sharpton in it also. Take them all down. Sue the college to where it stings and stings bad. At least 100 million and make them pay all attorney fees on top of it.

Well, good luck with that.

I suggest anybody who wants to protect free speech on campuses and in America start a fundraiser for these students to do exactly this what I'm suggesting.

Hey Judicial review
I'll go in with you on this idea of setting up a fundraiser,
but not for a lawsuit which is counterproductive.

I'd suggest setting up a paid internship so these students can excel and gain leadership experience
while address REAL issues that should be protested, if the public is so concerned about racial oppression and inequality.

I would like to contact the school officials and fraternity chapters
and ask for help to set up the Campus Plans in Freedmen's Town
to train future leaders in government. Freedmen s Town Historic Churches and Vet Housing

If these students want to participate in something meaningful, I'm all for
helping to raise funds so the students can take ownership and responsibility for resolving REAL issues of racial injustice.

why do you think bigots should be leaders?

 

[emilynghiem]

This is fantastic news!

People have gotten so wrapped up in themselves that they think anything that offends them is racist... If we're going to be equal, lets be treated equal.

So start with those black panther members that were chanting to kill whitey and kill the cracker babies...

Any of you liberals down to debate that?

Thirty6BelowZero
I'd offer the same to the Black Panthers as I do the the UO students involved in this incident.
To come out and support the Campus Plans in Freedmen's Town to save national historic landmarks
to Freed Slave and Civil Rights history.

Why waste time energy and resources fighting over blame?

Why not invest in building campus communities that teach self-governance, legal and business skills in managing
schools and property as a city-state, and provide a training ground for future leaders to run for public office with experience?

Freedmen s Town Historic Churches and Vet Housing

Usually if people aren't serious, they run away. Fast. So if they have anything to chant, I don't have to hear it.

Here is my chant:
music video for Sustainable Campus converting sweatshop labor to workstudy jobs

Black Panthers, and students on either side of this issue are welcome to join in.
If you want to do something to end oppressive division and discrimination by race or class,
let's build a school system that takes on these issues and creates tracks for anyone to work
their way up from the bottom to the top levels of being self-governing and running your own schools and cities.

Earned Amnesty

I've offered this model to both Anonymous Asclepias and Nutz
Let's see if The Rabbi and Judicial review are more serious and less fearful of solutions and what they look like.

 

[pinqy]

The students have a perfect case. They were off campus in a private venue. Punishing people for unpopular statements is exactly what the 1A was meant to prevent.

Thank you. This thread will clearly define the smart posters who believe in the constitution from the morons here at usmb. Specifically the bill of rights.

Hi Judicial review I am a liberal progressive who believes in the Bill of Rights, also the Fourteenth Amendment and the Code of Ethics for Govt Service. I believe in education all citizens in these principles so we can redress our own grievances.

Yes the students have free speech but so does the university and fraternity have their rules their members agreed to enforce.
You cannot take one rule out of context with the rest.

And the National SAE has taken appropriate action. The question is whether or not expelling the students is a violation of the First Ammendment free speech protection.

From looking at the bigger picture, the university and fraternity could also be trying to avoid lawsuits over allowing discriminatory practices to go on that are against their rules.

Irrelevant from a 1st ammendment perspective.


[quteo]Why raise national hell over a discriminatory policy by a student fraternity[/quote] What discriminatory policy are you referring to?

 

[The Rabbi]

Even if OU were to lose the suit, they still saved their "brand"

The brand that says you can't say something unless we approve of it? Trust me if you think these suits are the only ones possible like the other poster said, "any minority that feels their well being at the college has been subject to what the college expelled these students for can also sue.

If I were these kids I'd look to make a statement of all statement. I'd also try to sucker Obama and Al Sharpton in it also. Take them all down. Sue the college to where it stings and stings bad. At least 100 million and make them pay all attorney fees on top of it.

Well, good luck with that.

I suggest anybody who wants to protect free speech on campuses and in America start a fundraiser for these students to do exactly this what I'm suggesting.

Hey Judicial review
I'll go in with you on this idea of setting up a fundraiser,
but not for a lawsuit which is counterproductive.

I'd suggest setting up a paid internship so these students can excel and gain leadership experience
while address REAL issues that should be protested, if the public is so concerned about racial oppression and inequality.

I would like to contact the school officials and fraternity chapters
and ask for help to set up the Campus Plans in Freedmen's Town
to train future leaders in government. Freedmen s Town Historic Churches and Vet Housing

If these students want to participate in something meaningful, I'm all for
helping to raise funds so the students can take ownership and responsibility for resolving REAL issues of racial injustice.

why do you think bigots should be leaders?

Why do you hate civil right and the Constitution?

 

[emilynghiem]

Even if OU were to lose the suit, they still saved their "brand"

The brand that says you can't say something unless we approve of it? Trust me if you think these suits are the only ones possible like the other poster said, "any minority that feels their well being at the college has been subject to what the college expelled these students for can also sue.

If I were these kids I'd look to make a statement of all statement. I'd also try to sucker Obama and Al Sharpton in it also. Take them all down. Sue the college to where it stings and stings bad. At least 100 million and make them pay all attorney fees on top of it.

Well, good luck with that.

I suggest anybody who wants to protect free speech on campuses and in America start a fundraiser for these students to do exactly this what I'm suggesting.

Hey Judicial review
I'll go in with you on this idea of setting up a fundraiser,
but not for a lawsuit which is counterproductive.

I'd suggest setting up a paid internship so these students can excel and gain leadership experience
while address REAL issues that should be protested, if the public is so concerned about racial oppression and inequality.

I would like to contact the school officials and fraternity chapters
and ask for help to set up the Campus Plans in Freedmen's Town
to train future leaders in government. Freedmen s Town Historic Churches and Vet Housing

If these students want to participate in something meaningful, I'm all for
helping to raise funds so the students can take ownership and responsibility for resolving REAL issues of racial injustice.

why do you think bigots should be leaders?

Hi jillian all people should receive training and support to run their own groups so they don't make bigoted mistakes.
If you are going to be a leader, do it right.
If you have weird rules for your organization, then keep them within your organization.
Why not hold all collective organizations and institutions to the same Bill of Rights and Fourteenth Amendment
policies of equal protection under laws?

If you discriminate against "bigots" in not giving them equal access to Constitutional education, experience and assistance
in conflict resolution, and diversity management, how do you expect anything but bigotry out of them?

 

[rightwinger]

These kids will be forced to fight the college. Just watch this explode in the coming weeks.

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE will be labled a racist fraternity across the nation. A student considering a fraternity will now be mocked if they mention SAE as a possibility. Their brand has been damaged

There has been permanent damage done to the fraternity by the bunch singing on the bus. They should all be sued and forced to pay damages to both SAE and the university

The national chapter kicked them out. How did you miss that? Besides, you were labeling them racist long before this came up.

Nobody heard of SAE before this

Now they have heard this is a fraternity you don't want your kids to join

 

[Thirty6BelowZero]

So start with those black panther members that were chanting to kill whitey

Ah, you want to kick them out of school, disband their frat house or what?

Ban them from that organization. Or do you consider what they said to be different in terms of being racist or offensive?

 

[emilynghiem]

The students have a perfect case. They were off campus in a private venue. Punishing people for unpopular statements is exactly what the 1A was meant to prevent.

Thank you. This thread will clearly define the smart posters who believe in the constitution from the morons here at usmb. Specifically the bill of rights.

Hi Judicial review I am a liberal progressive who believes in the Bill of Rights, also the Fourteenth Amendment and the Code of Ethics for Govt Service. I believe in education all citizens in these principles so we can redress our own grievances.

Yes the students have free speech but so does the university and fraternity have their rules their members agreed to enforce.
You cannot take one rule out of context with the rest.

And the National SAE has taken appropriate action. The question is whether or not expelling the students is a violation of the First Ammendment free speech protection.

From looking at the bigger picture, the university and fraternity could also be trying to avoid lawsuits over allowing discriminatory practices to go on that are against their rules.

Irrelevant from a 1st ammendment perspective.


[quteo]Why raise national hell over a discriminatory policy by a student fraternity

What discriminatory policy are you referring to?[/QUOTE]

Hi pinqy see g5000's quotes that the anti-discrimination policy of the school was violated.
Also if the SAE has standards against discrimination in recruiting, that was violated also.
If they allow for this discrimination in recruiting, then it is still something in their policies.

As long as people AGREE to those policies, that's fine to have them. But obviously they didn't agree.

 

[paulitician]

They put the University in a very bad position. It has to cover its own ass. They're out. And that's that.

You dont cover your ass by violating someone's civil rights. I agree thats probably how they saw it. It was cowardly and wrong.

You want Al Sharpton and the other Dem Race-Baiter loons camping out at your place for months? They gave the University no choice. They blew it.

Bullshit. The university should have had the students take some class on racial sensitivity or some bullshit, suspended the students from the fraternity for 2-3 semesters, and issued a statement that while they deplore the conduct they respect the right of free speech and free association and be done with it.

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely. But these are different times. Businesses are routinely firing employees over Facebook postings. '9/11 changed everything.' Haven't you heard? Welcome to the new America. Enjoy.

it doesn't have to do with 9/11. it does in part have to do with social media and the lack of expectation of privacy in people's communications.

I hear ya. But it's very sad that so many are buying into the whole 'No one should have any expectation of privacy' thing. They've given up. So as of right now, you're always 'on the clock.' Your Employer can and will fire you over Facebook postings.

Your Government and Employers are closely monitoring what you say and do. So be careful. It's a very sad state of affairs.

 

[Nutz]

This is fantastic news!

People have gotten so wrapped up in themselves that they think anything that offends them is racist... If we're going to be equal, lets be treated equal.

So start with those black panther members that were chanting to kill whitey and kill the cracker babies...

Any of you liberals down to debate that?

Thirty6BelowZero
I'd offer the same to the Black Panthers as I do the the UO students involved in this incident.
To come out and support the Campus Plans in Freedmen's Town to save national historic landmarks
to Freed Slave and Civil Rights history.

Why waste time energy and resources fighting over blame?

Why not invest in building campus communities that teach self-governance, legal and business skills in managing
schools and property as a city-state, and provide a training ground for future leaders to run for public office with experience?

Freedmen s Town Historic Churches and Vet Housing

Usually if people aren't serious, they run away. Fast. So if they have anything to chant, I don't have to hear it.

Here is my chant:
music video for Sustainable Campus converting sweatshop labor to workstudy jobs

Black Panthers, and students on either side of this issue are welcome to join in.
If you want to do something to end oppressive division and discrimination by race or class,
let's build a school system that takes on these issues and creates tracks for anyone to work
their way up from the bottom to the top levels of being self-governing and running your own schools and cities.

Earned Amnesty

I've offered this model to both Anonymous Asclepias and Nutz
Let's see if The Rabbi and Judicial review are more serious and less fearful of solutions and what they look like.

Fearful of solutions? Consider this...I have NEVER read an entire post of yours. My eyes begin to glaze over after the first sentence and after I skip to the end... I think of chicken and donuts. Your long arrogant posts are usually about about nonsense no one cares about.

 

[BlindBoo]

So start with those black panther members that were chanting to kill whitey

Ah, you want to kick them out of school, disband their frat house or what?

Ban them from that organization. Or do you consider what they said to be different in terms of being racist or offensive?

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center "The New Black Panther Party is a virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization whose leaders have encouraged violence against whites, Jews and law enforcement officers. Founded in Dallas, the group today is especially active on the East Coast, from Boston to Jacksonville, Fla.". So I'm not surprised by anything it's members have said. I don't believe they should have a presence on any college campus.

New Black Panther Party Southern Poverty Law Center

 

[Thirty6BelowZero]

Black Panthers, and students on either side of this issue are welcome to join in.
If you want to do something to end oppressive division and discrimination by race or class,
let's build a school system that takes on these issues and creates tracks for anyone to work
their way up from the bottom to the top levels of being self-governing and running your own schools and cities.

I couldn't agree more, Emily. They do have classes for diversity (similar to what you suggest), however, they're only offered to mean white people that said something kinda sorta offensive about blacks, gays, or illegals. And lets not forget about all those extra point seminars at Universities all over America about white privilege. Every attempt the lefty progressives make to "end oppression in America" makes things twice as bad as they were before.

 

[The Rabbi]

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE will be labled a racist fraternity across the nation. A student considering a fraternity will now be mocked if they mention SAE as a possibility. Their brand has been damaged

There has been permanent damage done to the fraternity by the bunch singing on the bus. They should all be sued and forced to pay damages to both SAE and the university

The national chapter kicked them out. How did you miss that? Besides, you were labeling them racist long before this came up.

Nobody heard of SAE before this

Now they have heard this is a fraternity you don't want your kids to join

I did. They have a chapter on Vanderbilt campus, where I went to college. People who are attracted to SAE will probablybe more attracted as a result of this.
Oh yea, you never went to college. That explain a bunch.

 

[Redfish]

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE will be labled a racist fraternity across the nation. A student considering a fraternity will now be mocked if they mention SAE as a possibility. Their brand has been damaged

There has been permanent damage done to the fraternity by the bunch singing on the bus. They should all be sued and forced to pay damages to both SAE and the university

you are truly an idiot.

More damage was done to SAE and the University

The students should be sued for their wilfull misconduct

free speech is willfull misconduct????????? only in the eyes of a liberal.

and I guess lying about sex is not lying?

you libs sicken me with your hypocrisy.

 

[The Rabbi]

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE will be labled a racist fraternity across the nation. A student considering a fraternity will now be mocked if they mention SAE as a possibility. Their brand has been damaged

There has been permanent damage done to the fraternity by the bunch singing on the bus. They should all be sued and forced to pay damages to both SAE and the university

you are truly an idiot.

More damage was done to SAE and the University

The students should be sued for their wilfull misconduct

free speech is willfull misconduct????????? only in the eyes of a liberal.

and I guess lying about sex is not lying?

you libs sicken me with your hypocrisy.

To libs anything that violates what they believe is willfull misconduct and must be punished.

 

[Thirty6BelowZero]

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center "The New Black Panther Party is a virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization whose leaders have encouraged violence against whites, Jews and law enforcement officers. Founded in Dallas, the group today is especially active on the East Coast, from Boston to Jacksonville, Fla.". So I'm not surprised by anything it's members have said. I don't believe they should have a presence on any college campus.

New Black Panther Party Southern Poverty Law Center

Nor do I, but that's not the issue I'm referring to. I'm talking about them being disciplined for what they say and do vs. the SAE.

 

[pinqy]

The students have a perfect case. They were off campus in a private venue. Punishing people for unpopular statements is exactly what the 1A was meant to prevent.

Thank you. This thread will clearly define the smart posters who believe in the constitution from the morons here at usmb. Specifically the bill of rights.

Hi Judicial review I am a liberal progressive who believes in the Bill of Rights, also the Fourteenth Amendment and the Code of Ethics for Govt Service. I believe in education all citizens in these principles so we can redress our own grievances.

Yes the students have free speech but so does the university and fraternity have their rules their members agreed to enforce.
You cannot take one rule out of context with the rest.

And the National SAE has taken appropriate action. The question is whether or not expelling the students is a violation of the First Ammendment free speech protection.

From looking at the bigger picture, the university and fraternity could also be trying to avoid lawsuits over allowing discriminatory practices to go on that are against their rules.

Irrelevant from a 1st ammendment perspective.


[quteo]Why raise national hell over a discriminatory policy by a student fraternity

What discriminatory policy are you referring to?

Hi pinqy see g5000's quotes that the anti-discrimination policy of the school was violated.[/quote]
g5000 claiming that the anti-discrimination policy was violated does not mean it was. Who exactly was discriminated against? What are the names of the individuals who applied and were rejected based on race? A chant is not a policy, especially since that chapter of SAE has had African-American members.

The National Organization of SAE has a right to punish racist speech. The University in this case, does not.

 

[pinqy]

Actually these kids brought it on themselves. We have non discrimination clauses everywhere. You cant chant about not allowing someone into a frat because of the color of their skin and not expect there to be some repercussions... Does it go against freedom of speech? Yes.. but it also goes against the code of ethics. There is fine line there and they crossed it. Granted there will always be discrimination whether it be spoken or not but its time to get past it and not look at someone based on their ethnicity. They can fight all they want but it will be a loosing battle. They need to just accept their punishment and learn to not do that stupid shit.

Thats nonsense. There was no discrimination. Even so, SAE is a private club. They can admit anyone they want. Thats called a right of association.

SAE disavowed them. Obviously their right of association allows them to choose not to deal with racist scum.

SAE will be labled a racist fraternity across the nation. A student considering a fraternity will now be mocked if they mention SAE as a possibility. Their brand has been damaged

There has been permanent damage done to the fraternity by the bunch singing on the bus. They should all be sued and forced to pay damages to both SAE and the university

The national chapter kicked them out. How did you miss that? Besides, you were labeling them racist long before this came up.

Nobody heard of SAE before this

Now they have heard this is a fraternity you don't want your kids to join

Oh, I heard of them. They were a bunch of assholes 30 years ago, too.