Peace Possible?

[Indofred]

Most of us have no problem with negotiation that wishes to right away define borders (although it is beyond sensitive issue to Israelis) like the problem of prisoners release.

It would depend on what those prisoners did. If they attacked civilians, they can rot for all I care but, if they attacked military targets, they're freedom fighters/political prisoners and should be released.

Iraq defined it's borders as the edges of Kuwait but the international community disagreed (Rightly). Do you agree with the first Iraq war as I do?

Last time we agreed because a brothers of ours was held in captivity, and even that agreement was with a very very thin line, if you get what I am saying.

That depends on the situation. If he was military, he's a prisoner of war and should be treated as such as laid down by international law - even if Israel doesn't follow such law.

Hundreds of thousands of Israeli signed up petitions to "postpone the madness", and right now the official webs of the political parties calling the ministers of Likud to reject and object the steps of Netanyahu. an inside rebellion started in the right-wing today very much because of it.

THAT Is the major issue.

And there goes your biggest problem.
Extremists in your government have no interest in peace' only killing the enemy, regardless of the cost to Israel and the world.
The exact same, but in mirror image, is very probably happening on the other side of the fence ...sorry, fucking great big wall.

I'll refer to the wisdom of a great man who was almost right on another issue that translates to Israel/Palestine - Muslims/Jews.

Styles tend to not only separate men - because they have their own doctrines and then the doctrine became the gospel truth that you cannot change.

He went on to suggest there should be no styles at all but I tend to disagree.
If the style is right for any given person; go with it but don't insist everyone else's style is wrong.

That is the real root of the conflict, both sides know how right they are and how God is on their side but neither stop to consider - it's the same God, the one who is probably really fucked off because man is destroying the lives he created because they're too fucking stupid to consider, the other guy may well be nice as well, regardless of what he calls God.

An interesting aside.
Salam means peace, as does shalom.
How you say "peace", defines who you hate and kill.

How stupid is that?

One last note to consider.
The Israeli press defines Palestinians as hate filled monsters.
The Arabic press defines Israelis as hate filled monsters.

The vast majority of both I've met were nice people.
Perhaps your press lies to you and shapes your opinions; I know the UK press does.

 

[Lipush]

"Jews are giving up nothing, Israelis must do".

But the issue of territories, especially when it comes to Jerusalem are concerning of the entire Jewish people, not just Israelis, even though the last word is to be said by us

Unless Israeli moves on the illegal occupation issue; there's no chance of peace.

From the Arab side, I guess I can see that, but as an Israeli, the main concern is security. And without it, how can anyone ask us for MORE tributes, when the only thing we get in return is more bite marks?

But they don't own the apartment - they broke in and live there because they kicked the owners out

That is not accurate. The "owners" were kicked out because the government of the country they sat in previously lost a war. Jordan has been warned in 1967 not to get involved, they did. They lost the land and the residents got stuck in the middle, literally.

Imagine if I wandered over to your house, kicked in the door and booted you out so I could live there. I suspect you'd be a bit miffed.

Of course.

Now Imagine someone coming to your house, kick you out of the house, then have your house given to the same people who will later on throw missiles at your new house.

And then some years later to discover that your cousin, and brother, and sister are going to pass the same thing.

Many of us, Jews and Palestinians, lost home.

And for your example, I don't have to imagine. My family lost property and land in 1936, the riots of the Arabs, my family was one of those who lost everything those days.

So yeah, I more than get it.

A man who is pissed off at you will become a warrior if you kill his family.

True.

By that logic one can expect Yishai Fogel to grow up to shoot and stone and blow up Arabs, right?

And the settlers are not the reason for the war. The settlers are civilians who follow the policy. There is no clear policy. That is the government's fault.

NOT the settlers'.

Whilst I totally disagree with rocket attacks, I do understand them and it wouldn't send my heart into a shock related arrest if I heard a new, longer range missile was aimed at Tel Aviv.

The missiles already reached Tel Aviv.

And by that logic, I guess it will be fair enough for me to say that I understand "price tag", right?

Just for the comparison.

I WOULD understand though, if some of our residents in the south will start creating rockets and send them right where they came from.

 

[Lipush]

Most of us have no problem with negotiation that wishes to right away define borders (although it is beyond sensitive issue to Israelis) like the problem of prisoners release.

It would depend on what those prisoners did. If they attacked civilians, they can rot for all I care but, if they attacked military targets, they're freedom fighters/political prisoners and should be released.

Iraq defined it's borders as the edges of Kuwait but the international community disagreed (Rightly). Do you agree with the first Iraq war as I do?

Last time we agreed because a brothers of ours was held in captivity, and even that agreement was with a very very thin line, if you get what I am saying.

That depends on the situation. If he was military, he's a prisoner of war and should be treated as such as laid down by international law - even if Israel doesn't follow such law.

Hundreds of thousands of Israeli signed up petitions to "postpone the madness", and right now the official webs of the political parties calling the ministers of Likud to reject and object the steps of Netanyahu. an inside rebellion started in the right-wing today very much because of it.

THAT Is the major issue.

And there goes your biggest problem.
Extremists in your government have no interest in peace' only killing the enemy, regardless of the cost to Israel and the world.
The exact same, but in mirror image, is very probably happening on the other side of the fence ...sorry, fucking great big wall.

I'll refer to the wisdom of a great man who was almost right on another issue that translates to Israel/Palestine - Muslims/Jews.

Styles tend to not only separate men - because they have their own doctrines and then the doctrine became the gospel truth that you cannot change.

He went on to suggest there should be no styles at all but I tend to disagree.
If the style is right for any given person; go with it but don't insist everyone else's style is wrong.

That is the real root of the conflict, both sides know how right they are and how God is on their side but neither stop to consider - it's the same God, the one who is probably really fucked off because man is destroying the lives he created because they're too fucking stupid to consider, the other guy may well be nice as well, regardless of what he calls God.

An interesting aside.
Salam means peace, as does shalom.
How you say "peace", defines who you hate and kill.

How stupid is that?

One last note to consider.
The Israeli press defines Palestinians as hate filled monsters.
The Arabic press defines Israelis as hate filled monsters.

The vast majority of both I've met were nice people.
Perhaps your press lies to you and shapes your opinions; I know the UK press does.

The press in Israel is not clean of politic interests, it is basically filled with them.

The press in Israel has both right and left newspapers and television stations.

We know that the Public channel (Channel 1) is "central-right" while channel 2 and 10 are central-left.

We know that Ha'aretz are pure left while Israel Hayom and Arutz7 are right.

Its the individuals choice to which press to believe and to read or hear or see.

Which is both good and bad.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Jews are giving up nothing, Israelis must do".

But the issue of territories, especially when it comes to Jerusalem are concerning of the entire Jewish people, not just Israelis, even though the last word is to be said by us

Unless Israeli moves on the illegal occupation issue; there's no chance of peace.

From the Arab side, I guess I can see that, but as an Israeli, the main concern is security. And without it, how can anyone ask us for MORE tributes, when the only thing we get in return is more bite marks?

But they don't own the apartment - they broke in and live there because they kicked the owners out

That is not accurate. The "owners" were kicked out because the government of the country they sat in previously lost a war. Jordan has been warned in 1967 not to get involved, they did. They lost the land and the residents got stuck in the middle, literally.

Imagine if I wandered over to your house, kicked in the door and booted you out so I could live there. I suspect you'd be a bit miffed.

Of course.

Now Imagine someone coming to your house, kick you out of the house, then have your house given to the same people who will later on throw missiles at your new house.

And then some years later to discover that your cousin, and brother, and sister are going to pass the same thing.

Many of us, Jews and Palestinians, lost home.

And for your example, I don't have to imagine. My family lost property and land in 1936, the riots of the Arabs, my family was one of those who lost everything those days.

So yeah, I more than get it.

A man who is pissed off at you will become a warrior if you kill his family.

True.

By that logic one can expect Yishai Fogel to grow up to shoot and stone and blow up Arabs, right?

And the settlers are not the reason for the war. The settlers are civilians who follow the policy. There is no clear policy. That is the government's fault.

NOT the settlers'.

Whilst I totally disagree with rocket attacks, I do understand them and it wouldn't send my heart into a shock related arrest if I heard a new, longer range missile was aimed at Tel Aviv.

The missiles already reached Tel Aviv.

And by that logic, I guess it will be fair enough for me to say that I understand "price tag", right?

Just for the comparison.

I WOULD understand though, if some of our residents in the south will start creating rockets and send them right where they came from.

And for your example, I don't have to imagine. My family lost property and land in 1936, the riots of the Arabs, my family was one of those who lost everything those days.

You do realize, however, that if it were not for the Zionist project in Palestine, that probably would not have happened.

You are aiming your blame at the wrong people.

 

[Indofred]

"Jews are giving up nothing, Israelis must do".

But the issue of territories, especially when it comes to Jerusalem are concerning of the entire Jewish people, not just Israelis, even though the last word is to be said by us

.

I'll get to the rest tomorrow but I must answer this as it's the source of a major problem.

Many more extreme people assume all Jews are guilty/share the guilt of the Israeli government and IDF; therefore are legitimate targets.

I disagree as most Jews are nothing to do with Israel as such and being an Israeli Jew doesn't mean you agree with your government.
Thus, civilians are not legitimate targets.

By posting that; you're associating the whole with the actions of some and I must strongly disagree with it.
Not all Muslims are terrorists because some are and not all Jews are murdering bastards because some are.

I have to add, assuming you speak for all Jews is just as arrogant as the more extreme Muslims when it comes to enforcing strict Islamic law.

You don't speak for all as all don't speak with the same voice.

 

[Indofred]

You do realize, however, that if it were not for the Zionist project in Palestine, that probably would not have happened.

You are aiming your blame at the wrong people.

Extremists are commonly to blame for everything but they always blame 'the enemy'.

Not just with the extreme Zionist terrorists who founded Israel but all extremists in all of history.

 

[Lipush]

"Jews are giving up nothing, Israelis must do".

But the issue of territories, especially when it comes to Jerusalem are concerning of the entire Jewish people, not just Israelis, even though the last word is to be said by us

Unless Israeli moves on the illegal occupation issue; there's no chance of peace.

From the Arab side, I guess I can see that, but as an Israeli, the main concern is security. And without it, how can anyone ask us for MORE tributes, when the only thing we get in return is more bite marks?

But they don't own the apartment - they broke in and live there because they kicked the owners out

That is not accurate. The "owners" were kicked out because the government of the country they sat in previously lost a war. Jordan has been warned in 1967 not to get involved, they did. They lost the land and the residents got stuck in the middle, literally.

Imagine if I wandered over to your house, kicked in the door and booted you out so I could live there. I suspect you'd be a bit miffed.

Of course.

Now Imagine someone coming to your house, kick you out of the house, then have your house given to the same people who will later on throw missiles at your new house.

And then some years later to discover that your cousin, and brother, and sister are going to pass the same thing.

Many of us, Jews and Palestinians, lost home.

And for your example, I don't have to imagine. My family lost property and land in 1936, the riots of the Arabs, my family was one of those who lost everything those days.

So yeah, I more than get it.

A man who is pissed off at you will become a warrior if you kill his family.

True.

By that logic one can expect Yishai Fogel to grow up to shoot and stone and blow up Arabs, right?

And the settlers are not the reason for the war. The settlers are civilians who follow the policy. There is no clear policy. That is the government's fault.

NOT the settlers'.

Whilst I totally disagree with rocket attacks, I do understand them and it wouldn't send my heart into a shock related arrest if I heard a new, longer range missile was aimed at Tel Aviv.

The missiles already reached Tel Aviv.

And by that logic, I guess it will be fair enough for me to say that I understand "price tag", right?

Just for the comparison.

I WOULD understand though, if some of our residents in the south will start creating rockets and send them right where they came from.

And for your example, I don't have to imagine. My family lost property and land in 1936, the riots of the Arabs, my family was one of those who lost everything those days.

You do realize, however, that if it were not for the Zionist project in Palestine, that probably would not have happened.

You are aiming your blame at the wrong people.

Nonsense.

My family lived in this land since 1883.

You trying to make it like they were to blame if lacking knowledge and insulting

 

[Gardener]

You do realize, however, that if it were not for the Zionist project in Palestine, that probably would not have happened.

You are aiming your blame at the wrong people.

Extremists are commonly to blame for everything but they always blame 'the enemy'.

Not just with the extreme Zionist terrorists who founded Israel but all extremists in all of history.

don't forget the zionists have museums for thei terrorists to celebrate them

 

[Lipush]

We have heritage museums.

What is bad about that?

Palestinians name streets and schools after their terrorists and praise them.

Hypocrisy, much?!

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

"Jews are giving up nothing, Israelis must do".

But the issue of territories, especially when it comes to Jerusalem are concerning of the entire Jewish people, not just Israelis, even though the last word is to be said by us

Unless Israeli moves on the illegal occupation issue; there's no chance of peace.

From the Arab side, I guess I can see that, but as an Israeli, the main concern is security. And without it, how can anyone ask us for MORE tributes, when the only thing we get in return is more bite marks?

But they don't own the apartment - they broke in and live there because they kicked the owners out

That is not accurate. The "owners" were kicked out because the government of the country they sat in previously lost a war. Jordan has been warned in 1967 not to get involved, they did. They lost the land and the residents got stuck in the middle, literally.

Imagine if I wandered over to your house, kicked in the door and booted you out so I could live there. I suspect you'd be a bit miffed.

Of course.

Now Imagine someone coming to your house, kick you out of the house, then have your house given to the same people who will later on throw missiles at your new house.

And then some years later to discover that your cousin, and brother, and sister are going to pass the same thing.

Many of us, Jews and Palestinians, lost home.

And for your example, I don't have to imagine. My family lost property and land in 1936, the riots of the Arabs, my family was one of those who lost everything those days.

So yeah, I more than get it.

A man who is pissed off at you will become a warrior if you kill his family.

True.

By that logic one can expect Yishai Fogel to grow up to shoot and stone and blow up Arabs, right?

And the settlers are not the reason for the war. The settlers are civilians who follow the policy. There is no clear policy. That is the government's fault.

NOT the settlers'.

Whilst I totally disagree with rocket attacks, I do understand them and it wouldn't send my heart into a shock related arrest if I heard a new, longer range missile was aimed at Tel Aviv.

The missiles already reached Tel Aviv.

And by that logic, I guess it will be fair enough for me to say that I understand "price tag", right?

Just for the comparison.

I WOULD understand though, if some of our residents in the south will start creating rockets and send them right where they came from.

Instead, Israel turns them into roses.

War and Peace Art | Qassam Rockets | Buy a Hand Sculpted Rose

​

 

[Gardener]

We have heritage museums.

What is bad about that?

Palestinians name streets and schools after their terrorists and praise them.

Hypocrisy, much?!

you zionists have museums that honor terrorists!!!!

and you yell at arafat for naming streets after shaheeds.

 

[Lipush]

I always ask you to bring out examples, you never do.

And you keep ignoring my questions as well.

Why, is that, exactly?

 

[Lipush]

"Jews are giving up nothing, Israelis must do".

But the issue of territories, especially when it comes to Jerusalem are concerning of the entire Jewish people, not just Israelis, even though the last word is to be said by us

Unless Israeli moves on the illegal occupation issue; there's no chance of peace.

From the Arab side, I guess I can see that, but as an Israeli, the main concern is security. And without it, how can anyone ask us for MORE tributes, when the only thing we get in return is more bite marks?

But they don't own the apartment - they broke in and live there because they kicked the owners out

That is not accurate. The "owners" were kicked out because the government of the country they sat in previously lost a war. Jordan has been warned in 1967 not to get involved, they did. They lost the land and the residents got stuck in the middle, literally.

Imagine if I wandered over to your house, kicked in the door and booted you out so I could live there. I suspect you'd be a bit miffed.

Of course.

Now Imagine someone coming to your house, kick you out of the house, then have your house given to the same people who will later on throw missiles at your new house.

And then some years later to discover that your cousin, and brother, and sister are going to pass the same thing.

Many of us, Jews and Palestinians, lost home.

And for your example, I don't have to imagine. My family lost property and land in 1936, the riots of the Arabs, my family was one of those who lost everything those days.

So yeah, I more than get it.

A man who is pissed off at you will become a warrior if you kill his family.

True.

By that logic one can expect Yishai Fogel to grow up to shoot and stone and blow up Arabs, right?

And the settlers are not the reason for the war. The settlers are civilians who follow the policy. There is no clear policy. That is the government's fault.

NOT the settlers'.

Whilst I totally disagree with rocket attacks, I do understand them and it wouldn't send my heart into a shock related arrest if I heard a new, longer range missile was aimed at Tel Aviv.

The missiles already reached Tel Aviv.

And by that logic, I guess it will be fair enough for me to say that I understand "price tag", right?

Just for the comparison.

I WOULD understand though, if some of our residents in the south will start creating rockets and send them right where they came from.

Instead, Israel turns them into roses.

War and Peace Art | Qassam Rockets | Buy a Hand Sculpted Rose

​

That is what we call, literally, "The Art of War"

 

[Indofred]

We have heritage museums.

What is bad about that?

Palestinians name streets and schools after their terrorists and praise them.

Hypocrisy, much?!

The blame game is always played by people with blame.
Both sides need to admit that before much of any use will happen.

 

[Gardener]

I always ask you to bring out examples, you never do.

And you keep ignoring my questions as well.

Why, is that, exactly?

the zionsst have a made a museum for the Lehi terrorists!!

Lehi Museum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the zuonists made a museum for the irgun!!!

Beit Gidi Etzel Museum ? IZL museum ? Irgun museum Tel Aviv

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Jews are giving up nothing, Israelis must do".

But the issue of territories, especially when it comes to Jerusalem are concerning of the entire Jewish people, not just Israelis, even though the last word is to be said by us

Unless Israeli moves on the illegal occupation issue; there's no chance of peace.

From the Arab side, I guess I can see that, but as an Israeli, the main concern is security. And without it, how can anyone ask us for MORE tributes, when the only thing we get in return is more bite marks?

But they don't own the apartment - they broke in and live there because they kicked the owners out

That is not accurate. The "owners" were kicked out because the government of the country they sat in previously lost a war. Jordan has been warned in 1967 not to get involved, they did. They lost the land and the residents got stuck in the middle, literally.

Imagine if I wandered over to your house, kicked in the door and booted you out so I could live there. I suspect you'd be a bit miffed.

Of course.

Now Imagine someone coming to your house, kick you out of the house, then have your house given to the same people who will later on throw missiles at your new house.

And then some years later to discover that your cousin, and brother, and sister are going to pass the same thing.

Many of us, Jews and Palestinians, lost home.

And for your example, I don't have to imagine. My family lost property and land in 1936, the riots of the Arabs, my family was one of those who lost everything those days.

So yeah, I more than get it.

A man who is pissed off at you will become a warrior if you kill his family.

True.

By that logic one can expect Yishai Fogel to grow up to shoot and stone and blow up Arabs, right?

And the settlers are not the reason for the war. The settlers are civilians who follow the policy. There is no clear policy. That is the government's fault.

NOT the settlers'.

Whilst I totally disagree with rocket attacks, I do understand them and it wouldn't send my heart into a shock related arrest if I heard a new, longer range missile was aimed at Tel Aviv.

The missiles already reached Tel Aviv.

And by that logic, I guess it will be fair enough for me to say that I understand "price tag", right?

Just for the comparison.

I WOULD understand though, if some of our residents in the south will start creating rockets and send them right where they came from.

And for your example, I don't have to imagine. My family lost property and land in 1936, the riots of the Arabs, my family was one of those who lost everything those days.

You do realize, however, that if it were not for the Zionist project in Palestine, that probably would not have happened.

You are aiming your blame at the wrong people.

Nonsense.

My family lived in this land since 1883.

You trying to make it like they were to blame if lacking knowledge and insulting

How many problems did you have before WWI?

 

[toastman]

I always ask you to bring out examples, you never do.

And you keep ignoring my questions as well.

Why, is that, exactly?

the zionsst have a made a museum for the Lehi terrorists!!

Lehi Museum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the zuonists made a museum for the irgun!!!

Beit Gidi Etzel Museum ? IZL museum ? Irgun museum Tel Aviv

If you had one cell in your brain, you would realize that these museums commerate the fact the the Irgun and Lehi were part of the establishment of Israel, which gave a safe haven to the Jewish people. They are not being commemorated for people they have killed.


The so called martyrs that killed innocent Israelis and have streets named after them, what did they accomplish??

The fact that you compare the two shows just how misinformed you are about the people of Israel.

 

[Gardener]

If you had one brain in your cell, you would realize that these museums commerate the fact the the Irgun and Lehi were part of the establishment of Israel, which gave a safe haven to the Jewish people. They are not being commemorated for people they have killed.


The so called martyrs that killed innocent Israelis and have streets named after them, what did they accomplish??

The fact that you compare the two shows just how misinformed you are about the people of Israel.

if you had one ounce of integrity you wouldn't attack me but just talk about the issues!!!!!!!

peace isn't possible with peoples like you.

(i think you meant "one cell in your brain". DUMBass!!!!)

 

[toastman]

I did talk about the issue!
Also, you didn't answer my question. Nice duck !

Answer my question and stop deflecting

 

[Gardener]

I did talk about the issue!
Also, you didn't answer my question. Nice duck !

Answer my question and stop deflecting

ah i see so you atre ok with Palestine building a museum for hamas becauese they feed millions of people and provide hospitals?

don't answer, i already know what you will say.