PM to Abbas

[Phoenall]

The Jews have no right to be here. The Jews have no rights to this land. The Jews have no rights to self-determination. The Jews have no rights to any kind of sovereignty. The Jews don't exist. The Jews have no culture. The Jews are not really Jews. The Jews are not a people. The Jews are not an ethnicity. The Jews have no history here. The Jews, and all their holy places, are just myths. The Jews were eradicated.

By George, I think he's finally got it.

And yet the Jews have an international law granting them the land, so explain again why international law does not work in the Jews favour, but islamic law superceeds international law when it is in the palestinians favour

 

[Phoenall]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

Really? So, the end of terrorism is not a requirement for peace?

Not to a brainwashed neo marxist moron like rat boy it isnt, unless it is coming from his commisar

 

[Phoenall]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

did you get that from some underground new paper?

Either thr morning star or socialist worker, or the new one neo marxist morons-r-us

 

[Phoenall]

The Jews have no right to be here. The Jews have no rights to this land. The Jews have no rights to self-determination. The Jews have no rights to any kind of sovereignty. The Jews don't exist. The Jews have no culture. The Jews are not really Jews. The Jews are not a people. The Jews are not an ethnicity. The Jews have no history here. The Jews, and all their holy places, are just myths. The Jews were eradicated.

By George, I think he's finally got it.

Oh, I've had it for many years now. As have all the Jewish people. It is, very literally, a fight for survival for us. A fight to exist. A fight for recognition and equal rights. A fight against antisemitism.

Thank you for acknowledging that.

Jewish people get along wherever they chose to live, just ask the 60% of Jewish people that chose not to live in the Zionist paradise. It's the Zionist element that think it's fine to take other people's territory, slaughter and evict them, occupy and oppress them that are the problem. I've no issue with anyone's religious beliefs, except when those beliefs are highjacked to create a fantasy "racial narrative" that somehow decides it has a better right to a bit of land than the native people do.

And once again you demonstarte that you do not believe that international law should ever work in the Jews favour, and they should be wiped out for daring to believe it does.

 

[Phoenall]

There can be no peace while one side refuses to acknowledge the other's right to exist.

Fine, recognise Palestine's right to exist.

They have or do you ignore these things because they go against your brainwashing

 

[Phoenall]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

did you get that from some underground new paper?

No, this BS

Only inyour fantasy world where the Jews have to legal, moral or human rights

 

[Phoenall]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

Really? So, the end of terrorism is not a requirement for peace?

Ending the occupation will end the resistance to occupation.

Then why didnt this happen in 2005 ?

 

[Phoenall]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

Really? So, the end of terrorism is not a requirement for peace?

Ending the occupation will end the resistance to occupation.

Oh please. If you do not believe that the Jewish people have rights to sovereignty on any of the territory, then there can be no way to end the occupation and have a nation for the Jewish people still exist.

That is why the Gaza disengagement increased the violence ("resistance") rather than eliminated it.

It is not "the territory." Israel sits inside Palestine's international borders. That is a major source of conflict that is ignored.

WHY DO YOU LIE AS YOU HAVE BEEN SHOWN IT IS THE BIRDERS OF THE MANDATE OF PALESTINE

 

[proudveteran06]

Five steps to peace.

1. Stop terrorism.
2. Stop trying to kill Jews using terrorism.
3. Stop inciting people to kill Jews as terrorism.
4. Stop terrorism.
5. Oh yeah, and stop terrorism.


Meanwhile, a poster attempts to make a moral equivalence by saying that the obstacle to peace is Jewish "settlements". In other words that the obstacle to peace is Jewish people living where they are not supposed to. In other words, the mere presence of Jewish people is the reason there can be no peace. In other words, the only way to have peace is for certain lands to be cleansed of the Jewish people.

Wow. sarcasm The Jewish people have never experienced THAT before. /sarcasm.

And, to bring the point home, shall Israel demand the same? That no Arabs should live in Israel? That the presence of Arabs living in Jerusalem and in Israel is the obstacle to peace and that Israel must be cleansed of them? (And no, I am not saying that we should do that. Nor are the Jewish people. Nor is the Israeli people or the Israeli government).



And then, said poster, begs us not to fund the killing of Gazan children. On a post which is, at its essence, demanding that Palestinians stop killing Jews. It is a reversal of cause and effect. It is reversal of the truth. Its a clear demonstration that many posters, and many people, are not arguing clear, objective ideas -- but arguing against an entire people.

You have a very strange way of looking at segregation, racism and oppression.

Too bad you don't feel that way about the 67 War the Arabs initiated

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Recidivism is one of the most obvious and striking aspect in Hostile Arab Palestinian conduct and behaviors. It refers to the routine relapse into criminal behavior, jihadism, insurgency, radical Islamic resistance, and other violent sunni activity that is often after the Palestinian Territories (alla 1988) undergoes intervention for a previous criminal behaviors. It is a revolving door; cyclic activity that eventually causes the Israelis to impose ever greater restrictions and security measures in order to suppress HoAP action.

Key Characteristics

• The 1970s - Groups focus on material damage and limited attacks aimed at killing individuals while an increasing number of urban incidents, using lessons from guerrilla conflicts elsewhere, occur.

• The 1980s - A distinct move toward urban-based attacks with a subsequent increase in collateral casualties as well as a change in targeting methodology; civilians become the target. Superpower conflict in Afghanistan becomes a formative period in the proliferation of weapons and emergence of militant, fundamentalist Islam.

• The 1990s - The trend toward directly targeting civilians continues, and gains even greater currency as ethno-nationalist, religious, and religio-nationalist actors fill the void left by the demise or decrease in leftist organizations. The end of the Cold War and the creation of new states, the leaving of certain states in unstable or anarchic conditions, give impetus to the rise of a new set of extremists whose ideology or motivations allow, or even call for, indiscriminate targeting.
​

SOURCE: Frontline: The Evolution of Islamic Terrorism
​

Shortly after the start of the Arab League aggression and intervention into Israel and the territory formally under the Mandate of Palestine, the Arab Legion, (Jordanian Army) surrounded and forcibly disarm various units of the Holy War Army.

1/2 of Gaza' farmland and 90% of Gaza's factories are out of business because of Israel. This destruction started when Fatah was still in power and Israel still had troops in Gaza. So I don't want you to say Hamas...

And what piddly they do export has to be approved by Israel. I don't understand what this has to do with Israel's security.

(COMMENT)

This is about the HoAP exploitation of relaxed border crossing procedures. It is very true that Hostile Arab Palestinian attacks have had such a wide variety with a wide dynamic range no matter what the provocation, the HoAP never actually stopped attacks.

The reason security countermeasures have remained ever increasing is because when Israel reduced countermeasures, the attacks attacks did not diminish. The attacks remained relatively constant and slightly bolder.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I do not agree. While I would admit that the Palestinians are at somewhat of a disadvantage, they are not beyond development of an economy. (We've talked about this before.) Any disadvantage they encounter today is largely of their own making.

QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 14785080, member: 21837"]

Where are the exports?

Without exports they will have no money to run an economy. That is why their economy crashed leaving them dependent on handouts. All of the aid is sustenance, nothing for development.

Until they can import what they need to run their farms and factories, and export for cash, there will be no economy.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the threat potential for letting loose the Palestinians on the world, does make it more difficult in terms of an economy that has good ratio's in Export : Import $ values; they do export. And if the focused more on the peaceful development of commercial and industrial aspects for their nation, they could even make a go of it. But they need two important things:

• Good Leadership
• Control of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) entities.
• And a national will to push their country to better economic conditions.
​

View attachment 82164
SOURCE: Trading Economics
​

All the Palestinians need to do is to work at setting condition, such that, the general factor that lead to the positive economic development are most conducive. As long as it is more important to the HoAP to export violence, jihadism, and terrorism, the more that condition will become more restrictive.

Most Respectfully,
R

I ask where are the exports out of Gaza and you blow a lot of smoke without answering the question. As usual.

And just what goodfs do the palestinians produce for export that cant be bought cheaper elsewhere. It is not the seller that sets the price it is the buyer.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Recidivism is one of the most obvious and striking aspect in Hostile Arab Palestinian conduct and behaviors. It refers to the routine relapse into criminal behavior, jihadism, insurgency, radical Islamic resistance, and other violent sunni activity that is often after the Palestinian Territories (alla 1988) undergoes intervention for a previous criminal behaviors. It is a revolving door; cyclic activity that eventually causes the Israelis to impose ever greater restrictions and security measures in order to suppress HoAP action.

Key Characteristics

• The 1970s - Groups focus on material damage and limited attacks aimed at killing individuals while an increasing number of urban incidents, using lessons from guerrilla conflicts elsewhere, occur.

• The 1980s - A distinct move toward urban-based attacks with a subsequent increase in collateral casualties as well as a change in targeting methodology; civilians become the target. Superpower conflict in Afghanistan becomes a formative period in the proliferation of weapons and emergence of militant, fundamentalist Islam.

• The 1990s - The trend toward directly targeting civilians continues, and gains even greater currency as ethno-nationalist, religious, and religio-nationalist actors fill the void left by the demise or decrease in leftist organizations. The end of the Cold War and the creation of new states, the leaving of certain states in unstable or anarchic conditions, give impetus to the rise of a new set of extremists whose ideology or motivations allow, or even call for, indiscriminate targeting.
​

SOURCE: Frontline: The Evolution of Islamic Terrorism​

Shortly after the start of the Arab League aggression and intervention into Israel and the territory formally under the Mandate of Palestine, the Arab Legion, (Jordanian Army) surrounded and forcibly disarm various units of the Holy War Army.

1/2 of Gaza' farmland and 90% of Gaza's factories are out of business because of Israel. This destruction started when Fatah was still in power and Israel still had troops in Gaza. So I don't want you to say Hamas...

And what piddly they do export has to be approved by Israel. I don't understand what this has to do with Israel's security.

(COMMENT)

This is about the HoAP exploitation of relaxed border crossing procedures. It is very true that Hostile Arab Palestinian attacks have had such a wide variety with a wide dynamic range no matter what the provocation, the HoAP never actually stopped attacks.

The reason security countermeasures have remained ever increasing is because when Israel reduced countermeasures, the attacks attacks did not diminish. The attacks remained relatively constant and slightly bolder.


Most Respectfully,
R

Nice chart. It shows that the resistance to Israel's occupation started immediately.

And continues to today.

 

[Challenger]

I have. Many, many times on this board. I'll do it again.

I was referring to the Zionist regime doing the recognising, you don't count, unless you speak for them...do you?

You just admitted that the Jewish people don't exist, aren't a people, have no history in the land, have been eradicated and have no rights to either territory or sovereignty or self-determination.

I've admitted nothing other than stating fact throughout. "The Jewish people (ethnicity)" were invented by Zionism in the 19th century. The overwhelming majority of Jewish people (religious group) at the time thought Zionists were fringe whack-jobs to be avoided at all costs.

You won't even agree that ending terrorism is the necessary starting point for peace, despite the fact that this is rather self-evident.

End the occupation and there will be an end to resistance against it. "Terrorism" is an emotive buzzword used to obscure what's really going on.

So, your turn. Dare to recognize Israel's right to exist as the nation for the Jewish people.

Since there's no ethnicity involved, there's nothing to recognise. "Israel's right to exist" is a worn out Zionist slogan, much like "a land without a people for a people without a land" both are BS

 

[Challenger]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

Really? So, the end of terrorism is not a requirement for peace?

Ending the occupation will end the resistance to occupation.

Oh please. If you do not believe that the Jewish people have rights to sovereignty on any of the territory, then there can be no way to end the occupation and have a nation for the Jewish people still exist.

That is why the Gaza disengagement increased the violence ("resistance") rather than eliminated it.

Yes there is,one inclusive state with equal rights guarenteed for all it's citizens under a constitution, the Palestinian proposal from the beginning and rejected by the Zionists.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OH come now. If you want the specific break-out just for Gaza; I can accommodate you. But please, stop with your stock answer of "blowing smoke." If anyone here is consistently trying to conceal the facts to fit their agenda, it's not me.

Where are the exports?

Without exports they will have no money to run an economy. That is why their economy crashed leaving them dependent on handouts. All of the aid is sustenance, nothing for development.

Until they can import what they need to run their farms and factories, and export for cash, there will be no economy.

(COMMENT)

The data previously supplied is from the Palestinians Central Bureau of Statistics records; as stated. It makes more sense to them in that way based on their analysis methodology.

View attachment 82186
Gisha
Legal Center for Freedom of Movement
Gisha is an Israeli not-for-profit organization, founded in 2005,
whose goal is to protect the freedom of movement of Palestinians,
especially Gaza residents. Gisha promotes rights guaranteed by
international and Israeli law.
​

The estimated cost of relief, recovery and reconstruction after last summer’s war was $4 billion. International donors pledged $3.5 billion for Gaza’s reconstruction in Cairo in October, but only $954 million has been disbursed as of early April. Basil Nasser, the acting head of the U.N. Development Program’s Gaza office, said donors have been slow to fulfill their promises because of the political environment.
SOURCE: Al-Jazeera America

Even that staunch and stalwart media outlet al-Jazeera understands that the International Donor see the Gaza as more volatile than the West Bank. The leadership prompts and prokes a conflict, the Gazan suffer heavy losses do to the HAMAS government violating Rules 23 and 24 of Customary International Humanitarian Law, and then cry foul.

The International Donors do not want to contribute to Gaza is all they are going to do is trigger another conflict just to have it destroyed again because the HAMAS Government wants to hide behind protected activities:

• Locating Military Objectives INSIDE Densely Populated Areas
• Failing to Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of hostile Military Objectives
​

No matter how you defend this action (or inaction) by HAMAS, --- no matter argument about the HoAP concept of what they are allowed to do, --- the donors don't really care. The donors want to know that HAMAS is going to take such action that will protect the reconstruction donations they provide.

Absent reassurances of HAMAS and based on their previous history, that simply is not forth coming.

Most Respectfully,
R

1/2 of Gaza' farmland and 90% of Gaza's factories are out of business because of Israel. This destruction started when Fatah was still in power and Israel still had troops in Gaza. So I don't want you to say Hamas...

And what piddly they do export has to be approved by Israel. I don't understand what this has to do with Israel's security.

Did Israel ibnstigate the wars and violence or was it hamas. Again you deny the Jews the rights you demand be handed to the arab muslims calling themselves palestinians on a plate. The Jews have the right under internastional laws, geneva conventions and the UN charter to defend against islamonazo terrorist acts of war much as you want to deny them this right, and if hamas insists on using farmland and factories for their acts of war then they will keep on getting destroyed.It is written in the UN charter.

The reason you dont understand is because you want to deny the Jews their human, legal and moral rights, including the right to have international law forced down the throats of the palestinians and their supporters.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OH come now. If you want the specific break-out just for Gaza; I can accommodate you. But please, stop with your stock answer of "blowing smoke." If anyone here is consistently trying to conceal the facts to fit their agenda, it's not me.

Where are the exports?

Without exports they will have no money to run an economy. That is why their economy crashed leaving them dependent on handouts. All of the aid is sustenance, nothing for development.

Until they can import what they need to run their farms and factories, and export for cash, there will be no economy.

(COMMENT)

The data previously supplied is from the Palestinians Central Bureau of Statistics records; as stated. It makes more sense to them in that way based on their analysis methodology.

View attachment 82186
Gisha
Legal Center for Freedom of Movement
Gisha is an Israeli not-for-profit organization, founded in 2005,
whose goal is to protect the freedom of movement of Palestinians,
especially Gaza residents. Gisha promotes rights guaranteed by
international and Israeli law.
​

The estimated cost of relief, recovery and reconstruction after last summer’s war was $4 billion. International donors pledged $3.5 billion for Gaza’s reconstruction in Cairo in October, but only $954 million has been disbursed as of early April. Basil Nasser, the acting head of the U.N. Development Program’s Gaza office, said donors have been slow to fulfill their promises because of the political environment.
SOURCE: Al-Jazeera America

Even that staunch and stalwart media outlet al-Jazeera understands that the International Donor see the Gaza as more volatile than the West Bank. The leadership prompts and prokes a conflict, the Gazan suffer heavy losses do to the HAMAS government violating Rules 23 and 24 of Customary International Humanitarian Law, and then cry foul.

The International Donors do not want to contribute to Gaza is all they are going to do is trigger another conflict just to have it destroyed again because the HAMAS Government wants to hide behind protected activities:

• Locating Military Objectives INSIDE Densely Populated Areas
• Failing to Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of hostile Military Objectives
​

No matter how you defend this action (or inaction) by HAMAS, --- no matter argument about the HoAP concept of what they are allowed to do, --- the donors don't really care. The donors want to know that HAMAS is going to take such action that will protect the reconstruction donations they provide.

Absent reassurances of HAMAS and based on their previous history, that simply is not forth coming.

Most Respectfully,
R

1/2 of Gaza' farmland and 90% of Gaza's factories are out of business because of Israel. This destruction started when Fatah was still in power and Israel still had troops in Gaza. So I don't want you to say Hamas...

And what piddly they do export has to be approved by Israel. I don't understand what this has to do with Israel's security.

Did Israel ibnstigate the wars and violence or was it hamas. Again you deny the Jews the rights you demand be handed to the arab muslims calling themselves palestinians on a plate. The Jews have the right under internastional laws, geneva conventions and the UN charter to defend against islamonazo terrorist acts of war much as you want to deny them this right, and if hamas insists on using farmland and factories for their acts of war then they will keep on getting destroyed.It is written in the UN charter.

The reason you dont understand is because you want to deny the Jews their human, legal and moral rights, including the right to have international law forced down the throats of the palestinians and their supporters.

Links with quotes please.

 

[Phoenall]

... because of Israel.

Because of the conflict with Israel. Which can be alleviated by, you know, not attacking Israel anymore.

But according to tinny the palestinians have the right to breach International laws, UN charter and the Geneva conventions because they are opposing the Jews and some moronic islamonazi has read the UN resolutions to mean that terrorist attacks are legal when done by the palestinians.

 

[Phoenall]

I have. Many, many times on this board. I'll do it again.

I was referring to the Zionist regime doing the recognising, you don't count, unless you speak for them...do you?

You just admitted that the Jewish people don't exist, aren't a people, have no history in the land, have been eradicated and have no rights to either territory or sovereignty or self-determination.

I've admitted nothing other than stating fact throughout. "The Jewish people (ethnicity)" were invented by Zionism in the 19th century. The overwhelming majority of Jewish people (religious group) at the time thought Zionists were fringe whack-jobs to be avoided at all costs.

You won't even agree that ending terrorism is the necessary starting point for peace, despite the fact that this is rather self-evident.

End the occupation and there will be an end to resistance against it. "Terrorism" is an emotive buzzword used to obscure what's really going on.

So, your turn. Dare to recognize Israel's right to exist as the nation for the Jewish people.

Since there's no ethnicity involved, there's nothing to recognise. "Israel's right to exist" is a worn out Zionist slogan, much like "a land without a people for a people without a land" both are BS

How de we know when rat boy is on the ropes, he calls Israel the zionist regime or refers to any support as hasbara.


Then he comes out with end the occupation and the terrorism will end, even after seeing that this failed in 2005 and is a no brainer while the palestinian charter spells out that the terrorism will never stop while a Jew lives and Israel is in one piece


Then he denies the Jews rights to free determination, a homeland and the right to have the international law of 1923 enforced fully

 

[Phoenall]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

Really? So, the end of terrorism is not a requirement for peace?

Ending the occupation will end the resistance to occupation.

Oh please. If you do not believe that the Jewish people have rights to sovereignty on any of the territory, then there can be no way to end the occupation and have a nation for the Jewish people still exist.

That is why the Gaza disengagement increased the violence ("resistance") rather than eliminated it.

Yes there is,one inclusive state with equal rights guarenteed for all it's citizens under a constitution, the Palestinian proposal from the beginning and rejected by the Zionists.

And why was it rejected again, was it because it included the words and the new state will be Jew free as only those living in the area prior to 1875 will be seen as palestinians.

 

[P F Tinmore]

... because of Israel.

Because of the conflict with Israel. Which can be alleviated by, you know, not attacking Israel anymore.

But according to tinny the palestinians have the right to breach International laws, UN charter and the Geneva conventions because they are opposing the Jews and some moronic islamonazi has read the UN resolutions to mean that terrorist attacks are legal when done by the palestinians.

Oh jeese, what a load of Israeli crap.