PM to Abbas

[Challenger]

There can be no peace while one side refuses to acknowledge the other's right to exist.

Fine, recognise Palestine's right to exist.

 

[jillian]

you'd do better to boycott the products of the terrorists of hamas.

oh wait.....there aren't any

 

[Challenger]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

did you get that from some underground new paper?

No, this BS

 

[Challenger]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

Really? So, the end of terrorism is not a requirement for peace?

Ending the occupation will end the resistance to occupation.

 

[Shusha]

There can be no peace while one side refuses to acknowledge the other's right to exist.

Fine, recognise Palestine's right to exist.

I have. Many, many times on this board. I'll do it again.

The Arab Palestinians have the SAME rights as the Jewish people have to self-determination as expressed through sovereignty over territory as a nation.

You just admitted that the Jewish people don't exist, aren't a people, have no history in the land, have been eradicated and have no rights to either territory or sovereignty or self-determination.

You won't even agree that ending terrorism is the necessary starting point for peace, despite the fact that this is rather self-evident.

So, your turn. Dare to recognize Israel's right to exist as the nation for the Jewish people.

 

[Shusha]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

Really? So, the end of terrorism is not a requirement for peace?

Ending the occupation will end the resistance to occupation.

Oh please. If you do not believe that the Jewish people have rights to sovereignty on any of the territory, then there can be no way to end the occupation and have a nation for the Jewish people still exist.

That is why the Gaza disengagement increased the violence ("resistance") rather than eliminated it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

Really? So, the end of terrorism is not a requirement for peace?

Ending the occupation will end the resistance to occupation.

Oh please. If you do not believe that the Jewish people have rights to sovereignty on any of the territory, then there can be no way to end the occupation and have a nation for the Jewish people still exist.

That is why the Gaza disengagement increased the violence ("resistance") rather than eliminated it.

It is not "the territory." Israel sits inside Palestine's international borders. That is a major source of conflict that is ignored.

 

[Shusha]

It is not "the territory." Israel sits inside Palestine's international borders. That is a major source of conflict that is ignored.

The POINT is to divide the territory in question (by whatever name you want to call it) into two States -- one for each people. It isn't ignored -- that is what we are trying to divide up. (AGAIN!).

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I do not agree. While I would admit that the Palestinians are at somewhat of a disadvantage, they are not beyond development of an economy. (We've talked about this before.) Any disadvantage they encounter today is largely of their own making.

QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 14785080, member: 21837"]

Where are the exports?

Without exports they will have no money to run an economy. That is why their economy crashed leaving them dependent on handouts. All of the aid is sustenance, nothing for development.

Until they can import what they need to run their farms and factories, and export for cash, there will be no economy.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the threat potential for letting loose the Palestinians on the world, does make it more difficult in terms of an economy that has good ratio's in Export : Import $ values; they do export. And if the focused more on the peaceful development of commercial and industrial aspects for their nation, they could even make a go of it. But they need two important things:

• Good Leadership
• Control of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) entities.
• And a national will to push their country to better economic conditions.
​

View attachment 82164
SOURCE: Trading Economics
​

All the Palestinians need to do is to work at setting condition, such that, the general factor that lead to the positive economic development are most conducive. As long as it is more important to the HoAP to export violence, jihadism, and terrorism, the more that condition will become more restrictive.

Most Respectfully,
R

I ask where are the exports out of Gaza and you blow a lot of smoke without answering the question. As usual.

 

[Hollie]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

Really? So, the end of terrorism is not a requirement for peace?

Ending the occupation will end the resistance to occupation.

Goofy islamo-slogans and cliche's aren't helping your befuddlement.

You should read the Hamas charter for an instructive lesson in islamo-fascism and why your silly slogans are pointless.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I do not agree. While I would admit that the Palestinians are at somewhat of a disadvantage, they are not beyond development of an economy. (We've talked about this before.) Any disadvantage they encounter today is largely of their own making.

QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 14785080, member: 21837"]

Where are the exports?

Without exports they will have no money to run an economy. That is why their economy crashed leaving them dependent on handouts. All of the aid is sustenance, nothing for development.

Until they can import what they need to run their farms and factories, and export for cash, there will be no economy.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the threat potential for letting loose the Palestinians on the world, does make it more difficult in terms of an economy that has good ratio's in Export : Import $ values; they do export. And if the focused more on the peaceful development of commercial and industrial aspects for their nation, they could even make a go of it. But they need two important things:

• Good Leadership
• Control of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) entities.
• And a national will to push their country to better economic conditions.
​

View attachment 82164
SOURCE: Trading Economics
​

All the Palestinians need to do is to work at setting condition, such that, the general factor that lead to the positive economic development are most conducive. As long as it is more important to the HoAP to export violence, jihadism, and terrorism, the more that condition will become more restrictive.

Most Respectfully,
R

I ask where are the exports out of Gaza and you blow a lot of smoke without answering the question. As usual.

Exports out of Gaza'istan are quite frequent. They're delivered at the business end of Islamic terrorist rockets fired from civilian areas.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OH come now. If you want the specific break-out just for Gaza; I can accommodate you. But please, stop with your stock answer of "blowing smoke." If anyone here is consistently trying to conceal the facts to fit their agenda, it's not me.

Where are the exports?

Without exports they will have no money to run an economy. That is why their economy crashed leaving them dependent on handouts. All of the aid is sustenance, nothing for development.

Until they can import what they need to run their farms and factories, and export for cash, there will be no economy.

(COMMENT)

The data previously supplied is from the Palestinians Central Bureau of Statistics records; as stated. It makes more sense to them in that way based on their analysis methodology.

Gisha
Legal Center for Freedom of Movement
Gisha is an Israeli not-for-profit organization, founded in 2005,
whose goal is to protect the freedom of movement of Palestinians,
especially Gaza residents. Gisha promotes rights guaranteed by
international and Israeli law.
​

The estimated cost of relief, recovery and reconstruction after last summer’s war was $4 billion. International donors pledged $3.5 billion for Gaza’s reconstruction in Cairo in October, but only $954 million has been disbursed as of early April. Basil Nasser, the acting head of the U.N. Development Program’s Gaza office, said donors have been slow to fulfill their promises because of the political environment.
SOURCE: Al-Jazeera America

Even that staunch and stalwart media outlet al-Jazeera understands that the International Donor see the Gaza as more volatile than the West Bank. The leadership prompts and prokes a conflict, the Gazan suffer heavy losses do to the HAMAS government violating Rules 23 and 24 of Customary International Humanitarian Law, and then cry foul.

The International Donors do not want to contribute to Gaza is all they are going to do is trigger another conflict just to have it destroyed again because the HAMAS Government wants to hide behind protected activities:

• Locating Military Objectives INSIDE Densely Populated Areas
• Failing to Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of hostile Military Objectives
​

No matter how you defend this action (or inaction) by HAMAS, --- no matter argument about the HoAP concept of what they are allowed to do, --- the donors don't really care. The donors want to know that HAMAS is going to take such action that will protect the reconstruction donations they provide.

Absent reassurances of HAMAS and based on their previous history, that simply is not forth coming.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[aris2chat]

and this started about five points for peace talks

No, it started with a condescending propaganda lecture designed for consumption by a gullable American audience.

Really? So, the end of terrorism is not a requirement for peace?

Ending the occupation will end the resistance to occupation.

Oh please. If you do not believe that the Jewish people have rights to sovereignty on any of the territory, then there can be no way to end the occupation and have a nation for the Jewish people still exist.

That is why the Gaza disengagement increased the violence ("resistance") rather than eliminated it.

as much or more than any nation in the middle east.

Palestinians have been offered many times and refused. Arabs did not want them to have a country when the UN offered in the first place.

stop stuffing the lies and propaganda in your chipmunk cheeks and try some good old honest fact for a refreshing change and so much healthier. Your digestive system is getting toxic with that blood crap you were gather for the winter.

You are nowhere near the middle, you are so far on the edge of the cliff you are about to fall off like lemmings. When you hit earth, it won't be pretty.

If the palestinians really want a state it will be when they end the lies and sit down and just talks like you would with a neighbor on a saturday afternoon.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OH come now. If you want the specific break-out just for Gaza; I can accommodate you. But please, stop with your stock answer of "blowing smoke." If anyone here is consistently trying to conceal the facts to fit their agenda, it's not me.

Where are the exports?

Without exports they will have no money to run an economy. That is why their economy crashed leaving them dependent on handouts. All of the aid is sustenance, nothing for development.

Until they can import what they need to run their farms and factories, and export for cash, there will be no economy.

(COMMENT)

The data previously supplied is from the Palestinians Central Bureau of Statistics records; as stated. It makes more sense to them in that way based on their analysis methodology.

View attachment 82186
Gisha
Legal Center for Freedom of Movement
Gisha is an Israeli not-for-profit organization, founded in 2005,
whose goal is to protect the freedom of movement of Palestinians,
especially Gaza residents. Gisha promotes rights guaranteed by
international and Israeli law.
​

The estimated cost of relief, recovery and reconstruction after last summer’s war was $4 billion. International donors pledged $3.5 billion for Gaza’s reconstruction in Cairo in October, but only $954 million has been disbursed as of early April. Basil Nasser, the acting head of the U.N. Development Program’s Gaza office, said donors have been slow to fulfill their promises because of the political environment.
SOURCE: Al-Jazeera America

Even that staunch and stalwart media outlet al-Jazeera understands that the International Donor see the Gaza as more volatile than the West Bank. The leadership prompts and prokes a conflict, the Gazan suffer heavy losses do to the HAMAS government violating Rules 23 and 24 of Customary International Humanitarian Law, and then cry foul.

The International Donors do not want to contribute to Gaza is all they are going to do is trigger another conflict just to have it destroyed again because the HAMAS Government wants to hide behind protected activities:

• Locating Military Objectives INSIDE Densely Populated Areas
• Failing to Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of hostile Military Objectives
​

No matter how you defend this action (or inaction) by HAMAS, --- no matter argument about the HoAP concept of what they are allowed to do, --- the donors don't really care. The donors want to know that HAMAS is going to take such action that will protect the reconstruction donations they provide.

Absent reassurances of HAMAS and based on their previous history, that simply is not forth coming.

Most Respectfully,
R

1/2 of Gaza' farmland and 90% of Gaza's factories are out of business because of Israel. This destruction started when Fatah was still in power and Israel still had troops in Gaza. So I don't want you to say Hamas...

And what piddly they do export has to be approved by Israel. I don't understand what this has to do with Israel's security.

 

[Shusha]

... because of Israel.

Because of the conflict with Israel. Which can be alleviated by, you know, not attacking Israel anymore.

 

[Phoenall]

Truthfully, in the past Netanyahu has said in Hebrew (which I understand) that everyone knows a Palestinian state would become a hotbed of Islamic terror, and therefore a Palestinian state would not arise under his watch.

OMG Nutandyahoo is a hoot. He has been a lying sack of shit his whole life.

For hundreds of years there was peace in Palestine. Generation after generation of Muslims, Christians, and Jews living together.

Then the Zionists came and there has been death and destruction ever since. Look at the wars. Israel and Palestine. Israel and Lebanon. Israel and Syria. Israel and Jordan. Israel and Egypt.

You don't need a PhD to detect a common denominator here.

And the history books say that you are lying as there has never been peace in the area and non muslims were subject to dhimmi laws and the jizya tax.

Yes do look at these wars, everyone instigated by islamonazi violence because the Jews refused to be ruled by islam any more. The muslims lost a ready supply of money and food so decided to attack the Jews and ended up getting the crap beat out of them every time.

And you will never get a PhD being so illiterate, just read the many charters of the islamic groups attacking Israel and see who is instigating the violence. Your own peoples words put you on the spot

It is you who needs to read up. The Ottoman Empire eliminated dhimmi laws and the jizya tax some time before its demise and the Palestinians did not want any religious designation. It was the Mandate and the Zionists who wanted to divide people by religion.

DID THEY then you will have no problem producing a LINK that says this. As the arab muslims from the area were still enforcing them right up until 1948 when Israel declared independence. These laws have been in place in the ottoman empire for all of its existence, and are still in place today in gaza

The collection of the jizya tax from non-Muslims was widespread throughout the history of Islam. In the mid-19th century, the Ottoman Empire significantly relaxed the restrictions and taxes placed on its non-Muslim residents under Ottomanism. These relaxations occurred gradually as part of the Tanzimat reform movement, which began in 1839 with the accession of the Ottoman Sultan, Abdülmecid I.[citation needed]

On November 3, 1839, the Edict of Gülhane (Hatt-i Sharif of Gulhane) edict was put forth by the Sultan, in part proclaiming the principle of equality among all subjects regardless of religion. Part of the motivation for this was a desire to gain support from the British Empire, whose help was needed in a conflict with Egypt.[citation needed]

On February 18, 1856, the Ottoman Reform Edict of 1856 (Hatt-i Humayan) was issued, building upon the 1839 edict. It came about partly as a result of pressure from and the efforts of the ambassadors of Great Britain, France, and Austria, whose respective countries were needed as allies in the Crimean War. It again proclaimed the principle of equality between Muslims and non-Muslims, and produced many specific reforms to this end. For example, the jizya tax was abolished and non-Muslims were allowed to join the army.[46][47]

Dhimmi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So they relaxed the rules, they did not halt them alltogether as the arab muslims nomads still imposed the protection racket and this resulted in Jewish families being taxed 5 or 6 times by different groups that only protected them from that one group.

Look at the source of your wiki article and see that it is an islamonazi that wrote it.

 

[Phoenall]

Truthfully, in the past Netanyahu has said in Hebrew (which I understand) that everyone knows a Palestinian state would become a hotbed of Islamic terror, and therefore a Palestinian state would not arise under his watch.

OMG Nutandyahoo is a hoot. He has been a lying sack of shit his whole life.

For hundreds of years there was peace in Palestine. Generation after generation of Muslims, Christians, and Jews living together.

Then the Zionists came and there has been death and destruction ever since. Look at the wars. Israel and Palestine. Israel and Lebanon. Israel and Syria. Israel and Jordan. Israel and Egypt.

You don't need a PhD to detect a common denominator here.

And the history books say that you are lying as there has never been peace in the area and non muslims were subject to dhimmi laws and the jizya tax.

Yes do look at these wars, everyone instigated by islamonazi violence because the Jews refused to be ruled by islam any more. The muslims lost a ready supply of money and food so decided to attack the Jews and ended up getting the crap beat out of them every time.

And you will never get a PhD being so illiterate, just read the many charters of the islamic groups attacking Israel and see who is instigating the violence. Your own peoples words put you on the spot

It is you who needs to read up. The Ottoman Empire eliminated dhimmi laws and the jizya tax some time before its demise and the Palestinians did not want any religious designation. It was the Mandate and the Zionists who wanted to divide people by religion.

DID THEY then you will have no problem producing a LINK that says this. As the arab muslims from the area were still enforcing them right up until 1948 when Israel declared independence. These laws have been in place in the ottoman empire for all of its existence, and are still in place today in gaza

The collection of the jizya tax from non-Muslims was widespread throughout the history of Islam. In the mid-19th century, the Ottoman Empire significantly relaxed the restrictions and taxes placed on its non-Muslim residents under Ottomanism. These relaxations occurred gradually as part of the Tanzimat reform movement, which began in 1839 with the accession of the Ottoman Sultan, Abdülmecid I.[citation needed]

On November 3, 1839, the Edict of Gülhane (Hatt-i Sharif of Gulhane) edict was put forth by the Sultan, in part proclaiming the principle of equality among all subjects regardless of religion. Part of the motivation for this was a desire to gain support from the British Empire, whose help was needed in a conflict with Egypt.[citation needed]

On February 18, 1856, the Ottoman Reform Edict of 1856 (Hatt-i Humayan) was issued, building upon the 1839 edict. It came about partly as a result of pressure from and the efforts of the ambassadors of Great Britain, France, and Austria, whose respective countries were needed as allies in the Crimean War. It again proclaimed the principle of equality between Muslims and non-Muslims, and produced many specific reforms to this end. For example, the jizya tax was abolished and non-Muslims were allowed to join the army.[46][47]

Dhimmi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So they relaxed the rules, they did not halt them alltogether as the arab muslims nomads still imposed the protection racket and this resulted in Jewish families being taxed 5 or 6 times by different groups that only protected them from that one group.

Look at the source of your wiki article and see that it is an islamonazi that wrote it.

 

[Phoenall]

Where are the exports?

Without exports they will have no money to run an economy. That is why their economy crashed leaving them dependent on handouts. All of the aid is sustenance, nothing for development.

Until they can import what they need to run their farms and factories, and export for cash, there will be no economy.

In the destroyed greenhouse and factories that hamas used to fire illegal weapons from at Israel. When they use their infrastructure to engage in war then they will suffer the loss of their economy, that is the truth about war. They can only blame themselves for this as they started to war even before they were a nation.

AND IT IS NOT ISRAEL'S RESPONCIBILITY TO SEND PALESTINIAN GOODS TO MARKET, THE PALESTINIANS HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT THEMSELVES. AND THAT IS WHY THEY FAILED FROM DAY ONE EXPECTING THE ISLARAELI'S TO SEND THE PALESTINIAN GOODS WITH THEIR OWN AND THEN PAY THE PALESTINIANS THE FIGURE THEY DEMANDED.

 

[Phoenall]

...Yep. One of the oldest ways of never having to make peace with someone is to just project them as evil...

Exactly right, the Zionists are so full of fear and hatred towards the Palestinians they've been doing that exact thing for decades; so much so that now they just can't or won't see it. Anything to avoid making a just and lasting peace, that's Zionism for you.

And rat boy resorts to his other out of context word when he has no valid argument to bring to the board. Still waiting for the link to the last time the palestinians came to the table with a blank sheet and were willing to talk peace.

 

[Phoenall]

Any disadvantage they encounter today is largely of their own making.

Zionist Israel controls their economy, borders, airspace and territorial waters, 80% of their exports go to the Zionist state which also controls the prices they can charge.

You mean like the EU does to the UK, so why is it so good for us and not for the palestinians ?