Poll: If you have someone pointing a gun at you and they tell you to stop and put your hands up, do you:

[Dogmaphobe]

Is shitting my pants not an option?

 

[Levant]

Your first choice, of course, is the sane, common sense choice. I don't know HOW someone COULD choose the second one with a clear, sensible, intelligent mind.

You're completely correct but you don't get to shoot people for being stupid.

 

[Levant]

Is shitting my pants not an option?

I had a cop point a gun at me once; I didn't but I surely could have. It as damn scary.

 

[White 6]

Is shitting my pants not an option?

Actually, no. You really should keep your shit together, but not in the bottom of your pants. Won't help with an armed mugger, but you might not be as welcome filing your report at the police station. If facing the police, they will not be happy at all about cleaning up their back seat after hauling you shitty ass to jail.

 

[freyasman]

Depends on if I believe they're actually willing to shoot me.

 

[anynameyouwish]

This poll might seem politically incorrect and I'm not defending any particular action against anyone, that isn't the intention. I suppose I'm always astonished that people don't value their OWN life under such a circumstance. Maybe an outcome might have been avoided or handled differently, I ask this question because, I don't think ANYONES life is worth rolling the dice with NOT complying.

Even if you knew you were going to prison, even if you had something on you that might send you there. I cannot understand why some choose to refuse to co-operate under those circumstances. Be smart, go home alive. If you have a beef, take it up with the courts.

I've explained my answer. Vote as you please. All of the fallout and harm done was so unnecessary, truly avoidable.

cliven bundy
waco
ruby ridge

 

[White 6]

Depends on if I believe they're actually willing to shoot me.

Not a good margin bet. If you see the gun, you should probably go ahead and acquiesce to whatever they want, unless yours is in your hand. If it is a cop though, don't even think of having it in your hand.

 

[airplanemechanic]

This is where you are bit confused. before the cops shot him, they tazed him and beat him.

Yea, not complying with a law enforcement officers orders when their is a warrant for your arrest can result in bad things happening to you. That would be why peaceful compliance is the best.

At that point, maybe he isn't working on a logical basis.. Maybe he just sees these cops as a mortal threat he needs to get away from.

So once a cop uses a taser on you, that gives you the right to run? Are you really this stupid or you're just fucking with us?

 

[Pete7469]

So once a cop uses a taser on you, that gives you the right to run? Are you really this stupid or you're just fucking with us?

I promise you, Joe is at least that stupid. I'm sure you have seen him post shit that is somehow even more stupid than that.

It erlexes me how people as stupid as him manage to survive this long. It makes you wonder if someone is paid to stay close by him so he doesn't wander into the street of heavy machinery.


.

 

[freyasman]

Depends on if I believe they're actually willing to shoot me.

Not a good margin bet. If you see the gun, you should probably go ahead and acquiesce to whatever they want, unless yours is in your hand. If it is a cop though, don't even think of having it in your hand.

I had a close call a few years back but I just kept moving back, got on my Harley, and left.

Wasn't a cop though.

 

[White 6]

Depends on if I believe they're actually willing to shoot me.

Not a good margin bet. If you see the gun, you should probably go ahead and acquiesce to whatever they want, unless yours is in your hand. If it is a cop though, don't even think of having it in your hand.

I had a close call a few years back but I just kept moving back, got on my Harley, and left.

Wasn't a cop though.

I had a close one in an alley leading up from Printer Alley in Nashville back in the 80s. Guy from behind put a gun in my back told me to give him my wallet and don't turn around. I gave and didn't turn. Than said start walking up to the street and don't look back. Dark shadowed alley, had not known when I walked past him the first time. Knew after I walked safer distance from the gun, if I did look back I would not see. Did as I was told. Went back from lighted end near Printers Alley. Wallet was thrown down close to wall just before coming out onto Printers, nothing but the money gone. Just a tourist rip off. Nashvillians knew better than to park on the street and walk down dark alleys. I figure I probably walked right by the guy in the crowds on Printer Alley. Lost little over a couple of hundred. Got a cheap education going to the Embers Black Poodle Lounge on world famous Printers Alley.

 

[freyasman]

Depends on if I believe they're actually willing to shoot me.

Not a good margin bet. If you see the gun, you should probably go ahead and acquiesce to whatever they want, unless yours is in your hand. If it is a cop though, don't even think of having it in your hand.

I had a close call a few years back but I just kept moving back, got on my Harley, and left.

Wasn't a cop though.

I had a close one in an alley leading up from Printer Alley in Nashville back in the 80s. Guy from behind put a gun in my back told me to give him my wallet and don't turn around. I gave and didn't turn. Than said start walking up to the street and don't look back. Dark shadowed alley, had not known when I walked past him the first time. Knew after I walked safer distance from the gun, if I did look back I would not see. Did as I was told. Went back from lighted end near Printers Alley. Wallet was thrown down close to wall just before coming out onto Printers, nothing but the money gone. Just a tourist rip off. Nashvillians knew better than to park on the street and walk down dark alleys. I figure I probably walked right by the guy in the crowds on Printer Alley. Lost little over a couple of hundred. Got a cheap education going to the Embers Black Poodle Lounge on world famous Printers Alley.

I used to go to a blues club there when I was stationed at Campbell.

 

[White 6]

Depends on if I believe they're actually willing to shoot me.

Not a good margin bet. If you see the gun, you should probably go ahead and acquiesce to whatever they want, unless yours is in your hand. If it is a cop though, don't even think of having it in your hand.

I had a close call a few years back but I just kept moving back, got on my Harley, and left.

Wasn't a cop though.

I had a close one in an alley leading up from Printer Alley in Nashville back in the 80s. Guy from behind put a gun in my back told me to give him my wallet and don't turn around. I gave and didn't turn. Than said start walking up to the street and don't look back. Dark shadowed alley, had not known when I walked past him the first time. Knew after I walked safer distance from the gun, if I did look back I would not see. Did as I was told. Went back from lighted end near Printers Alley. Wallet was thrown down close to wall just before coming out onto Printers, nothing but the money gone. Just a tourist rip off. Nashvillians knew better than to park on the street and walk down dark alleys. I figure I probably walked right by the guy in the crowds on Printer Alley. Lost little over a couple of hundred. Got a cheap education going to the Embers Black Poodle Lounge on world famous Printers Alley.

I used to go to a blues club there when I was stationed at Campbell.

Used be some decent blues and Jazz in Nashville. Haven't been in a long time. Of course the Black Poodle was neither back in the early 80s. Haven't been there either in a long long time. Now that I think of it, haven't been back since that night. I think I went to see their headliner, Heaven Lee and I saw every inch of her. A little classier than turning left at the main gate of Campbell. But actually spent most my Campbell time out on range road, especially range 39.

 

[BothWings]

Let's look at it another way, what if you are not armed and the same person pointing a gun at you is a mugger? Do you tell him "f off A-hole" and walk away with your back turned?

No. Are you really holding the police to the same moral standards as Muggers?

I don't know if the cops decision was right or not. I do know however, whether it's walking to your car or taking ones taser after a struggle and running, you have to have the cerebral activity to know that your chances of being shot have escalated substantially with those decisions.

Again, stating this without excusing the police action, but also admonishing the decision to walk away in such a manner. If you turn a situation of clarity into a situation of doubt, fear, uncertainty for another human pointing a gun at you, what possible good outcome is there for you as you walk away?

This is where you are bit confused. before the cops shot him, they tazed him and beat him. At that point, maybe he isn't working on a logical basis.. Maybe he just sees these cops as a mortal threat he needs to get away from.

Did he think, "I know, if I open up my car door and drive away, I'm in the clear".

It's not logical. Logic, is a quality in short supply. Maybe even the cop was illogical, maybe he could have fired his taser or verbally controlled the situation better, I don't know. What I do know is that if he put his hands up and complied, his chances of being unhurt today increase exponentially.

Would he have? Mike Brown had his hands up and they shot him anyway. George Floyd Screamed "I can't breathe" and they murdered him anyway.

Alot of police are really just punks and thugs who have been issued a badge, and allowed to let loose on "approved individuals". For the same reason, the Marine Corp often likes to recruit problem boys from bad neighborhoods. Sometimes they end up being almost as dangerous to friendlies as they are to hostiles. We need an active military with capable soldiers, but the people we sometimes regard as heroes may actually just be natural killers who have been tamed by a master. Sometimes the tiger turns on the tamer. Take Tim McVeigh for example. And there have been others like him. The military is alot less concerned about collateral damage than they let on...and the same rule sometimes applies to police.

I

 

[White 6]

Let's look at it another way, what if you are not armed and the same person pointing a gun at you is a mugger? Do you tell him "f off A-hole" and walk away with your back turned?

No. Are you really holding the police to the same moral standards as Muggers?

I don't know if the cops decision was right or not. I do know however, whether it's walking to your car or taking ones taser after a struggle and running, you have to have the cerebral activity to know that your chances of being shot have escalated substantially with those decisions.

Again, stating this without excusing the police action, but also admonishing the decision to walk away in such a manner. If you turn a situation of clarity into a situation of doubt, fear, uncertainty for another human pointing a gun at you, what possible good outcome is there for you as you walk away?

This is where you are bit confused. before the cops shot him, they tazed him and beat him. At that point, maybe he isn't working on a logical basis.. Maybe he just sees these cops as a mortal threat he needs to get away from.

Did he think, "I know, if I open up my car door and drive away, I'm in the clear".

It's not logical. Logic, is a quality in short supply. Maybe even the cop was illogical, maybe he could have fired his taser or verbally controlled the situation better, I don't know. What I do know is that if he put his hands up and complied, his chances of being unhurt today increase exponentially.

Would he have? Mike Brown had his hands up and they shot him anyway. George Floyd Screamed "I can't breathe" and they murdered him anyway.

Alot of police are really just punks and thugs who have been issued a badge, and allowed to let loose on "approved individuals". For the same reason, the Marine Corp often likes to recruit problem boys from bad neighborhoods. Sometimes they end up being almost as dangerous to friendlies as they are to hostiles. We need an active military with capable soldiers, but the people we sometimes regard as heroes may actually just be natural killers who have been tamed by a master. Sometimes the tiger turns on the tamer. Take Tim McVeigh for example. And there have been others like him. The military is alot less concerned about collateral damage than they let on...and the same rule sometimes applies to police.

I

You lost me when you said a lot of police are thugs and punks. Vast majority are not. Only had one in my entire life proved to me he was no good, a Sheriff. He wasn't physically abusive, just a crook. I dealt with it at that time when I was very young, but it did not give me an attitude toward law enforcement like yours. A few years later, it caught with him and he went to prison on a variety of felonies, as he should. The system worked.
Cops are people and they sometimes make mistakes, going too far at times. Lots of reasons, none justifying it when they do. Most people that have trouble with police bring it on themselves by their activities or their own over reaction and bad judgment. Still does not justify, but it is more complicated than "lots of police are thugs".

 

[JoeB131]

I get your point, and definitely H.R is an issue of any police agency where abuses occur or if they protect bad apples (and I know of abuses and lies, they don't have to be gunshots and they can definitely impact and/or destroy lives).

Under this situation though, in broad daylight with a gun pointed at him, I question his response. If he dies from this where he might have lived otherwise, what good was his action?

Again, showing bad judgement in a stressful situation should not be a death sentence.

 

[JoeB131]

cliven bundy
waco
ruby ridge

You kind of made our point here.

Black people are often shot with little or no provocation.

But then you have all these examples of white people who were treated with kids gloves for weeks even after brandishing guns at Federal officers or in some cases, killing them.

If the Branch Davidians had been a cult of crazy black pedophiles, they have sent in the tanks on the first day, not given them 53 days to think about the best way to commit mass suicide.

 

[freyasman]

Depends on if I believe they're actually willing to shoot me.

Not a good margin bet. If you see the gun, you should probably go ahead and acquiesce to whatever they want, unless yours is in your hand. If it is a cop though, don't even think of having it in your hand.

I had a close call a few years back but I just kept moving back, got on my Harley, and left.

Wasn't a cop though.

I had a close one in an alley leading up from Printer Alley in Nashville back in the 80s. Guy from behind put a gun in my back told me to give him my wallet and don't turn around. I gave and didn't turn. Than said start walking up to the street and don't look back. Dark shadowed alley, had not known when I walked past him the first time. Knew after I walked safer distance from the gun, if I did look back I would not see. Did as I was told. Went back from lighted end near Printers Alley. Wallet was thrown down close to wall just before coming out onto Printers, nothing but the money gone. Just a tourist rip off. Nashvillians knew better than to park on the street and walk down dark alleys. I figure I probably walked right by the guy in the crowds on Printer Alley. Lost little over a couple of hundred. Got a cheap education going to the Embers Black Poodle Lounge on world famous Printers Alley.

I used to go to a blues club there when I was stationed at Campbell.

Used be some decent blues and Jazz in Nashville. Haven't been in a long time. Of course the Black Poodle was neither back in the early 80s. Haven't been there either in a long long time. Now that I think of it, haven't been back since that night. I think I went to see their headliner, Heaven Lee and I saw every inch of her. A little classier than turning left at the main gate of Campbell. But actually spent most my Campbell time out on range road, especially range 39.

I spent most of my Campbell time shaking my head and asking, "What the hell are these amateur night every day fucktards doing????"

Most inept, most incompetent, worst led brigade I ever saw in 20 years.

 

[freyasman]

I get your point, and definitely H.R is an issue of any police agency where abuses occur or if they protect bad apples (and I know of abuses and lies, they don't have to be gunshots and they can definitely impact and/or destroy lives).

Under this situation though, in broad daylight with a gun pointed at him, I question his response. If he dies from this where he might have lived otherwise, what good was his action?

Again, showing bad judgement in a stressful situation should not be a death sentence.

Why not?

 

[BothWings]

Let's look at it another way, what if you are not armed and the same person pointing a gun at you is a mugger? Do you tell him "f off A-hole" and walk away with your back turned?

No. Are you really holding the police to the same moral standards as Muggers?

I don't know if the cops decision was right or not. I do know however, whether it's walking to your car or taking ones taser after a struggle and running, you have to have the cerebral activity to know that your chances of being shot have escalated substantially with those decisions.

Again, stating this without excusing the police action, but also admonishing the decision to walk away in such a manner. If you turn a situation of clarity into a situation of doubt, fear, uncertainty for another human pointing a gun at you, what possible good outcome is there for you as you walk away?

This is where you are bit confused. before the cops shot him, they tazed him and beat him. At that point, maybe he isn't working on a logical basis.. Maybe he just sees these cops as a mortal threat he needs to get away from.

Did he think, "I know, if I open up my car door and drive away, I'm in the clear".

It's not logical. Logic, is a quality in short supply. Maybe even the cop was illogical, maybe he could have fired his taser or verbally controlled the situation better, I don't know. What I do know is that if he put his hands up and complied, his chances of being unhurt today increase exponentially.

Would he have? Mike Brown had his hands up and they shot him anyway. George Floyd Screamed "I can't breathe" and they murdered him anyway.

Alot of police are really just punks and thugs who have been issued a badge, and allowed to let loose on "approved individuals". For the same reason, the Marine Corp often likes to recruit problem boys from bad neighborhoods. Sometimes they end up being almost as dangerous to friendlies as they are to hostiles. We need an active military with capable soldiers, but the people we sometimes regard as heroes may actually just be natural killers who have been tamed by a master. Sometimes the tiger turns on the tamer. Take Tim McVeigh for example. And there have been others like him. The military is alot less concerned about collateral damage than they let on...and the same rule sometimes applies to police.

I

You lost me when you said a lot of police are thugs and punks. Vast majority are not. Only had one in my entire life proved to me he was no good, a Sheriff. He wasn't physically abusive, just a crook. I dealt with it at that time when I was very young, but it did not give me an attitude toward law enforcement like yours. A few years later, it caught with him and he went to prison on a variety of felonies, as he should. The system worked.
Cops are people and they sometimes make mistakes, going too far at times. Lots of reasons, none justifying it when they do. Most people that have trouble with police bring it on themselves by their activities or their own over reaction and bad judgment. Still does not justify, but it is more complicated than "lots of police are thugs".

If I had a dime for every bullheaded arrogant young jock who wanted to be a cop so he could essentially have a license to be his obnoxious self, I'd be able to buy is all lunch. Ive met plenty of good cops too. I'm not putting all cops in one box. But many of the jerks who become cops so they can be themselves and be supported for it...you would not like if you met them under other circumstances. Theyre the alpha type who is bossy and intimidating toward others, even to their own families. There's a fine line sometimes. Just recently I read about a Canadian serial killer who had a sadistic streak as a youth, torturing animals and what have you. It came as no real surprise when I read that he desperately wanted to join the RCMP in his 20's. An injury disqualified him, and then he started his criminal career. He was looking for an outlet where he had a badge of immunity and dominance over others. Case and point.