Poll: If you have someone pointing a gun at you and they tell you to stop and put your hands up, do you:

[freyasman]

Let's look at it another way, what if you are not armed and the same person pointing a gun at you is a mugger? Do you tell him "f off A-hole" and walk away with your back turned?

No. Are you really holding the police to the same moral standards as Muggers?

I don't know if the cops decision was right or not. I do know however, whether it's walking to your car or taking ones taser after a struggle and running, you have to have the cerebral activity to know that your chances of being shot have escalated substantially with those decisions.

Again, stating this without excusing the police action, but also admonishing the decision to walk away in such a manner. If you turn a situation of clarity into a situation of doubt, fear, uncertainty for another human pointing a gun at you, what possible good outcome is there for you as you walk away?

This is where you are bit confused. before the cops shot him, they tazed him and beat him. At that point, maybe he isn't working on a logical basis.. Maybe he just sees these cops as a mortal threat he needs to get away from.

Did he think, "I know, if I open up my car door and drive away, I'm in the clear".

It's not logical. Logic, is a quality in short supply. Maybe even the cop was illogical, maybe he could have fired his taser or verbally controlled the situation better, I don't know. What I do know is that if he put his hands up and complied, his chances of being unhurt today increase exponentially.

Would he have? Mike Brown had his hands up and they shot him anyway. George Floyd Screamed "I can't breathe" and they murdered him anyway.

Alot of police are really just punks and thugs who have been issued a badge, and allowed to let loose on "approved individuals". For the same reason, the Marine Corp often likes to recruit problem boys from bad neighborhoods. Sometimes they end up being almost as dangerous to friendlies as they are to hostiles. We need an active military with capable soldiers, but the people we sometimes regard as heroes may actually just be natural killers who have been tamed by a master. Sometimes the tiger turns on the tamer. Take Tim McVeigh for example. And there have been others like him. The military is alot less concerned about collateral damage than they let on...and the same rule sometimes applies to police.

I

You lost me when you said a lot of police are thugs and punks. Vast majority are not. Only had one in my entire life proved to me he was no good, a Sheriff. He wasn't physically abusive, just a crook. I dealt with it at that time when I was very young, but it did not give me an attitude toward law enforcement like yours. A few years later, it caught with him and he went to prison on a variety of felonies, as he should. The system worked.
Cops are people and they sometimes make mistakes, going too far at times. Lots of reasons, none justifying it when they do. Most people that have trouble with police bring it on themselves by their activities or their own over reaction and bad judgment. Still does not justify, but it is more complicated than "lots of police are thugs".

If I had a dime for every bullheaded arrogant young jock who wanted to be a cop so he could essentially have a license to be his obnoxious self, I'd be able to buy is all lunch. Ive met plenty of good cops too. I'm not putting all cops in one box. But many of the jerks who become cops so they can be themselves and be supported for it...you would not like if you met them under other circumstances. Theyre the alpha type who is bossy and intimidating toward others, even to their own families. There's a fine line sometimes. Just recently I read about a Canadian serial killer who had a sadistic streak as a youth, torturing animals and what have you. It came as no real surprise when I read that he desperately wanted to join the RCMP in his 20's. An injury disqualified him, and then he started his criminal career. He was looking for an outlet where he had a badge of immunity and dominance over others. Case and point.

If you want to do crime, a badge is a good thing to hide behind.

 

[JoeB131]

Why not?

Okay- let's start with the easy one. Killing someone who isn't a threat to you is wrong.
Oh, yeah, and it's racist.
And it's expensive when you end up having to pay out millions to their families.

And eventually, THEY MIGHT START SHOOTING BACK.

 

[freyasman]

I get your point, and definitely H.R is an issue of any police agency where abuses occur or if they protect bad apples (and I know of abuses and lies, they don't have to be gunshots and they can definitely impact and/or destroy lives).

Under this situation though, in broad daylight with a gun pointed at him, I question his response. If he dies from this where he might have lived otherwise, what good was his action?

Again, showing bad judgement in a stressful situation should not be a death sentence.

Answer the question; why not?

 

[freyasman]

Why not?

Okay- let's start with the easy one. Killing someone who isn't a threat to you is wrong.
Oh, yeah, and it's racist.
And it's expensive when you end up having to pay out millions to their families.

And eventually, THEY MIGHT START SHOOTING BACK.

Quit dodging.

 

[BothWings]

Let's look at it another way, what if you are not armed and the same person pointing a gun at you is a mugger? Do you tell him "f off A-hole" and walk away with your back turned?

No. Are you really holding the police to the same moral standards as Muggers?

I don't know if the cops decision was right or not. I do know however, whether it's walking to your car or taking ones taser after a struggle and running, you have to have the cerebral activity to know that your chances of being shot have escalated substantially with those decisions.

Again, stating this without excusing the police action, but also admonishing the decision to walk away in such a manner. If you turn a situation of clarity into a situation of doubt, fear, uncertainty for another human pointing a gun at you, what possible good outcome is there for you as you walk away?

This is where you are bit confused. before the cops shot him, they tazed him and beat him. At that point, maybe he isn't working on a logical basis.. Maybe he just sees these cops as a mortal threat he needs to get away from.

Did he think, "I know, if I open up my car door and drive away, I'm in the clear".

It's not logical. Logic, is a quality in short supply. Maybe even the cop was illogical, maybe he could have fired his taser or verbally controlled the situation better, I don't know. What I do know is that if he put his hands up and complied, his chances of being unhurt today increase exponentially.

Would he have? Mike Brown had his hands up and they shot him anyway. George Floyd Screamed "I can't breathe" and they murdered him anyway.

Alot of police are really just punks and thugs who have been issued a badge, and allowed to let loose on "approved individuals". For the same reason, the Marine Corp often likes to recruit problem boys from bad neighborhoods. Sometimes they end up being almost as dangerous to friendlies as they are to hostiles. We need an active military with capable soldiers, but the people we sometimes regard as heroes may actually just be natural killers who have been tamed by a master. Sometimes the tiger turns on the tamer. Take Tim McVeigh for example. And there have been others like him. The military is alot less concerned about collateral damage than they let on...and the same rule sometimes applies to police.

I

You lost me when you said a lot of police are thugs and punks. Vast majority are not. Only had one in my entire life proved to me he was no good, a Sheriff. He wasn't physically abusive, just a crook. I dealt with it at that time when I was very young, but it did not give me an attitude toward law enforcement like yours. A few years later, it caught with him and he went to prison on a variety of felonies, as he should. The system worked.
Cops are people and they sometimes make mistakes, going too far at times. Lots of reasons, none justifying it when they do. Most people that have trouble with police bring it on themselves by their activities or their own over reaction and bad judgment. Still does not justify, but it is more complicated than "lots of police are thugs".

If I had a dime for every bullheaded arrogant young jock who wanted to be a cop so he could essentially have a license to be his obnoxious self, I'd be able to buy is all lunch. Ive met plenty of good cops too. I'm not putting all cops in one box. But many of the jerks who become cops so they can be themselves and be supported for it...you would not like if you met them under other circumstances. Theyre the alpha type who is bossy and intimidating toward others, even to their own families. There's a fine line sometimes. Just recently I read about a Canadian serial killer who had a sadistic streak as a youth, torturing animals and what have you. It came as no real surprise when I read that he desperately wanted to join the RCMP in his 20's. An injury disqualified him, and then he started his criminal career. He was looking for an outlet where he had a badge of immunity and dominance over others. Case and point.

If you want to do crime, a badge is a good thing to hide behind.

Just look at drug peddling in the military. Its not just for enlisted men. Imvolvement in that goes way up into the highest levels. Alot of evidence has implicated the CIA in rumning major drug operations, and also casinos. CIA doesnt run on tax dollars, FYI. So therefore they have to find other sources of income. Black projects also find similar funding. It helps them stay secret when there's no paper trail. There are hoards of criminals, potential or active, operating as government officials.

 

[freyasman]

Let's look at it another way, what if you are not armed and the same person pointing a gun at you is a mugger? Do you tell him "f off A-hole" and walk away with your back turned?

No. Are you really holding the police to the same moral standards as Muggers?

I don't know if the cops decision was right or not. I do know however, whether it's walking to your car or taking ones taser after a struggle and running, you have to have the cerebral activity to know that your chances of being shot have escalated substantially with those decisions.

Again, stating this without excusing the police action, but also admonishing the decision to walk away in such a manner. If you turn a situation of clarity into a situation of doubt, fear, uncertainty for another human pointing a gun at you, what possible good outcome is there for you as you walk away?

This is where you are bit confused. before the cops shot him, they tazed him and beat him. At that point, maybe he isn't working on a logical basis.. Maybe he just sees these cops as a mortal threat he needs to get away from.

Did he think, "I know, if I open up my car door and drive away, I'm in the clear".

It's not logical. Logic, is a quality in short supply. Maybe even the cop was illogical, maybe he could have fired his taser or verbally controlled the situation better, I don't know. What I do know is that if he put his hands up and complied, his chances of being unhurt today increase exponentially.

Would he have? Mike Brown had his hands up and they shot him anyway. George Floyd Screamed "I can't breathe" and they murdered him anyway.

Alot of police are really just punks and thugs who have been issued a badge, and allowed to let loose on "approved individuals". For the same reason, the Marine Corp often likes to recruit problem boys from bad neighborhoods. Sometimes they end up being almost as dangerous to friendlies as they are to hostiles. We need an active military with capable soldiers, but the people we sometimes regard as heroes may actually just be natural killers who have been tamed by a master. Sometimes the tiger turns on the tamer. Take Tim McVeigh for example. And there have been others like him. The military is alot less concerned about collateral damage than they let on...and the same rule sometimes applies to police.

I

You lost me when you said a lot of police are thugs and punks. Vast majority are not. Only had one in my entire life proved to me he was no good, a Sheriff. He wasn't physically abusive, just a crook. I dealt with it at that time when I was very young, but it did not give me an attitude toward law enforcement like yours. A few years later, it caught with him and he went to prison on a variety of felonies, as he should. The system worked.
Cops are people and they sometimes make mistakes, going too far at times. Lots of reasons, none justifying it when they do. Most people that have trouble with police bring it on themselves by their activities or their own over reaction and bad judgment. Still does not justify, but it is more complicated than "lots of police are thugs".

If I had a dime for every bullheaded arrogant young jock who wanted to be a cop so he could essentially have a license to be his obnoxious self, I'd be able to buy is all lunch. Ive met plenty of good cops too. I'm not putting all cops in one box. But many of the jerks who become cops so they can be themselves and be supported for it...you would not like if you met them under other circumstances. Theyre the alpha type who is bossy and intimidating toward others, even to their own families. There's a fine line sometimes. Just recently I read about a Canadian serial killer who had a sadistic streak as a youth, torturing animals and what have you. It came as no real surprise when I read that he desperately wanted to join the RCMP in his 20's. An injury disqualified him, and then he started his criminal career. He was looking for an outlet where he had a badge of immunity and dominance over others. Case and point.

If you want to do crime, a badge is a good thing to hide behind.

Just look at drug peddling in the military. Its not just for enlisted men. Imvolvement in that goes way up into the highest levels. Alot of evidence has implicated the CIA in rumning major drug operations, and also casinos. CIA doesnt run on tax dollars, FYI. So therefore they have to find other sources of income. Black projects also find similar funding. It helps them stay secret when there's no paper trail. There are hoards of criminals, potential or active, operating as government officials.

Well....... yeah. That isn't news.

 

[White 6]

Depends on if I believe they're actually willing to shoot me.

Not a good margin bet. If you see the gun, you should probably go ahead and acquiesce to whatever they want, unless yours is in your hand. If it is a cop though, don't even think of having it in your hand.

I had a close call a few years back but I just kept moving back, got on my Harley, and left.

Wasn't a cop though.

I had a close one in an alley leading up from Printer Alley in Nashville back in the 80s. Guy from behind put a gun in my back told me to give him my wallet and don't turn around. I gave and didn't turn. Than said start walking up to the street and don't look back. Dark shadowed alley, had not known when I walked past him the first time. Knew after I walked safer distance from the gun, if I did look back I would not see. Did as I was told. Went back from lighted end near Printers Alley. Wallet was thrown down close to wall just before coming out onto Printers, nothing but the money gone. Just a tourist rip off. Nashvillians knew better than to park on the street and walk down dark alleys. I figure I probably walked right by the guy in the crowds on Printer Alley. Lost little over a couple of hundred. Got a cheap education going to the Embers Black Poodle Lounge on world famous Printers Alley.

I used to go to a blues club there when I was stationed at Campbell.

Used be some decent blues and Jazz in Nashville. Haven't been in a long time. Of course the Black Poodle was neither back in the early 80s. Haven't been there either in a long long time. Now that I think of it, haven't been back since that night. I think I went to see their headliner, Heaven Lee and I saw every inch of her. A little classier than turning left at the main gate of Campbell. But actually spent most my Campbell time out on range road, especially range 39.

I spent most of my Campbell time shaking my head and asking, "What the hell are these amateur night every day fucktards doing????"

Most inept, most incompetent, worst led brigade I ever saw in 20 years.

They were interesting at times. Was not stationed there. Only frequented the base, mostly for range work and briefings before Gulf War I. Almost got my bars boiled over their incompetence after waking a much, much more senior Officer in an admittedly unprofessional manor, using unprofessional speech to get my point across. Pays to know people in and above your usual chain.

 

[Zander]

But he dindu nuffin!! Systemic racism!

 

[freyasman]

Depends on if I believe they're actually willing to shoot me.

Not a good margin bet. If you see the gun, you should probably go ahead and acquiesce to whatever they want, unless yours is in your hand. If it is a cop though, don't even think of having it in your hand.

I had a close call a few years back but I just kept moving back, got on my Harley, and left.

Wasn't a cop though.

I had a close one in an alley leading up from Printer Alley in Nashville back in the 80s. Guy from behind put a gun in my back told me to give him my wallet and don't turn around. I gave and didn't turn. Than said start walking up to the street and don't look back. Dark shadowed alley, had not known when I walked past him the first time. Knew after I walked safer distance from the gun, if I did look back I would not see. Did as I was told. Went back from lighted end near Printers Alley. Wallet was thrown down close to wall just before coming out onto Printers, nothing but the money gone. Just a tourist rip off. Nashvillians knew better than to park on the street and walk down dark alleys. I figure I probably walked right by the guy in the crowds on Printer Alley. Lost little over a couple of hundred. Got a cheap education going to the Embers Black Poodle Lounge on world famous Printers Alley.

I used to go to a blues club there when I was stationed at Campbell.

Used be some decent blues and Jazz in Nashville. Haven't been in a long time. Of course the Black Poodle was neither back in the early 80s. Haven't been there either in a long long time. Now that I think of it, haven't been back since that night. I think I went to see their headliner, Heaven Lee and I saw every inch of her. A little classier than turning left at the main gate of Campbell. But actually spent most my Campbell time out on range road, especially range 39.

I spent most of my Campbell time shaking my head and asking, "What the hell are these amateur night every day fucktards doing????"

Most inept, most incompetent, worst led brigade I ever saw in 20 years.

They were interesting at times. Was not stationed there. Only frequented the base, mostly for range work and briefings before Gulf War I. Almost got my bars boiled over their incompetence after waking a much, much more senior Officer in an admittedly unprofessional manor, using unprofessional speech to get my point across. Pays to know people in and above your usual chain.

I'm pretty sure I was sent there as a punishment.

 

[White 6]

Depends on if I believe they're actually willing to shoot me.

Not a good margin bet. If you see the gun, you should probably go ahead and acquiesce to whatever they want, unless yours is in your hand. If it is a cop though, don't even think of having it in your hand.

I had a close call a few years back but I just kept moving back, got on my Harley, and left.

Wasn't a cop though.

I had a close one in an alley leading up from Printer Alley in Nashville back in the 80s. Guy from behind put a gun in my back told me to give him my wallet and don't turn around. I gave and didn't turn. Than said start walking up to the street and don't look back. Dark shadowed alley, had not known when I walked past him the first time. Knew after I walked safer distance from the gun, if I did look back I would not see. Did as I was told. Went back from lighted end near Printers Alley. Wallet was thrown down close to wall just before coming out onto Printers, nothing but the money gone. Just a tourist rip off. Nashvillians knew better than to park on the street and walk down dark alleys. I figure I probably walked right by the guy in the crowds on Printer Alley. Lost little over a couple of hundred. Got a cheap education going to the Embers Black Poodle Lounge on world famous Printers Alley.

I used to go to a blues club there when I was stationed at Campbell.

Used be some decent blues and Jazz in Nashville. Haven't been in a long time. Of course the Black Poodle was neither back in the early 80s. Haven't been there either in a long long time. Now that I think of it, haven't been back since that night. I think I went to see their headliner, Heaven Lee and I saw every inch of her. A little classier than turning left at the main gate of Campbell. But actually spent most my Campbell time out on range road, especially range 39.

I spent most of my Campbell time shaking my head and asking, "What the hell are these amateur night every day fucktards doing????"

Most inept, most incompetent, worst led brigade I ever saw in 20 years.

They were interesting at times. Was not stationed there. Only frequented the base, mostly for range work and briefings before Gulf War I. Almost got my bars boiled over their incompetence after waking a much, much more senior Officer in an admittedly unprofessional manor, using unprofessional speech to get my point across. Pays to know people in and above your usual chain.

I'm pretty sure I was sent there as a punishment.

All behind you now, dude. What doesn't kill ya, makes you stronger. At least that is what they say.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Why should our lives be at risk to start with because in a moment of panic, we might make a bad decision.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Actually, we are all getting a little sick of the Cop's game, it's costing us too much money.

How much do you think Jacob is going to take the Town of Kenosha for when this comes to court?

I'm tired of paying for rogue cops.

So I propose a modest solution. Instead of cities paying out damages to the victims of police brutality, that money should come from their pension and retirement funds. Then it will be up to the Police Departments and Unions to decide if they really want to keep the thugs on the payroll with badges and guns.

That would require eliminating police unions.

Which I'm all for.

 

[fncceo]

That would require eliminating police unions.

Which I'm all for.

Why do you hate unions? What have you got against the working men and women of America?

 

[Jarlaxle]

That would require eliminating police unions.

Which I'm all for.

Why do you hate unions? What have you got against the working men and women of America?

Why are you stupid? Were you dropped on your head as a young child?