[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[johnwk]

Why don't we put them to work?

Our progressives in Congress do not want them to work and achieve financial independence because they would no longer have a dependent voting block to keep themselves in power. We were warned about such dependence in Federalist No. 79:


A POWER OVER A MAN's SUBSISTENCE AMOUNTS TO A POWER OVER HIS WILL ____ Hamilton, No. 79 Federalist Papers


JWK


The liberty to fail or succeed at one’s own hand is a PROGRESSIVE`S nightmare and not the American Dream

If business created jobs and hired them, Congress would have no say in the matter.

What a creative deflection.


JWK


Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money.Margaret Thatcher

 

[PMZ]

Our progressives in Congress do not want them to work and achieve financial independence because they would no longer have a dependent voting block to keep themselves in power. We were warned about such dependence in Federalist No. 79:


A POWER OVER A MAN's SUBSISTENCE AMOUNTS TO A POWER OVER HIS WILL ____ Hamilton, No. 79 Federalist Papers


JWK


The liberty to fail or succeed at one’s own hand is a PROGRESSIVE`S nightmare and not the American Dream

If business created jobs and hired them, Congress would have no say in the matter.

What a creative deflection.


JWK


Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money.Margaret Thatcher

I'm not surprised that you mislabeled my post a "deflection". What it was is a solution.

I've often wondered why conservatives avoid solutions so often. Then it hit me. Solutions replace whining.

Can you even imagine conservatives not whining? It would be awful for them. They would be as frustrated as wealthy folks not being able to show off.

 

[johnwk]

If business created jobs and hired them, Congress would have no say in the matter.

What a creative deflection.


JWK


Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money.Margaret Thatcher

I'm not surprised that you mislabeled my post a "deflection". What it was is a solution.

.

Your post was a deflection because you asked why "business" is not hiring these people when it is Congress who, unconstitutionally, sets the rules for hiring employees. Under fascism, folks in government are responsible for who gets hired, fired, and who is a privileged class. You ought to learn where to point your accusatory finger.


JWK


"To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen [a working person’s earned wage] and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes [Obama’s Solyndra, Chevy Volt, Fisker, Exelon swindling deals] is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation."____ Savings and Loan Assc. v. Topeka,(1875).

 

[PMZ]

What a creative deflection.


JWK


Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money.Margaret Thatcher

I'm not surprised that you mislabeled my post a "deflection". What it was is a solution.

.

Your post was a deflection because you asked why "business" is not hiring these people when it is Congress who, unconstitutionally, sets the rules for hiring employees. Under fascism, folks in government are responsible for who gets hired, fired, and who is a privileged class. You ought to learn where to point your accusatory finger.


JWK


"To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen [a working person’s earned wage] and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes [Obama’s Solyndra, Chevy Volt, Fisker, Exelon swindling deals] is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation."____ Savings and Loan Assc. v. Topeka,(1875).

What country are you posting from?

Here, companies are free to hire who they want. At the moment they're too busy counting corporate profits to be bothered with growth and hiring, but when we get the conservatives out of the board room and back into the bean counting room where they excell, and replace them with liberal futurists, growth will return.

 

[ShawnChris13]

Proving your total and complete misunderstanding of what fascism is. Congratulations.

That is exactly what fascism is.

Fascism is radical authoritarian nationalism. It is a right wing political movement, dipshit.

Yes Mussolini taking control of the government, the businesses, the military, private daily activities, and the media are all right wing moves. I will refrain from pointless name calling.

 

[JoeNormal]

They don't because they are already paying for the government product. What I am asking for is to quit being forced to pay for the government product. If consumers had a choice, there wouldn't be any government run fire departments.

I don't think that's the way they feel about healthcare. A majority of Americans wanted Medicare for all. Of course the insurance companies made sure that never happened.

Whenever the public doesn't go along with the liberal agenda it's always because of some sinister corporate plot.

I'm not talking about people voting for some government program. I'm talking about each consumer individually having the choice of whether to pay for and receive the government product or some other product, just like when they buy a car. If they had such a choice, then government "services" would disappear.

Ha! I was at a dinner party with one of the coaches of the US ski team. He was from Norway I think. He claimed that their health care system beat the one here hands down. And it's not because their government is more capable or less corrupt than ours. The profit motive isn't there to pump up costs and the economies of scale allow efficiencies in service and price negotiations with medical suppliers.

Then there's the postal system. They're still my go-to source for shipment mainly because I don't have to shlep halfway across the city to find an office. They're cheaper than UPS or Fed Ex too.

 

[JoeNormal]

911, this is fred on main st. My house is on fire.

You're in luck tonight fred there are three private companies competing for your business. Hold and they will in turn talk to you.

Hello fred, this is the abc company and we're proud to announce our spring sale. 99 gallons of water on your fire for $99.99. A price that can't be beat.

But i don't know if that will put out my fire.

That’s why we offer our extended warranty plan. Whatever it takes to put out the fire will be applied for the bargain prices of $55,000.

Are you nuts? That’s outrageous.

Fred, your house is burning and you're negotiating. Isn't that penny smart and pound foolish?

But maybe there's a better deal.

Well fred, we can't just respond without a contract. We just got a call from harry on aristocrat st and he's agreed to pay us more. Sorry fred.


The conservative improvement plan for america.

lmao!

 

[johnwk]

I'm not surprised that you mislabeled my post a "deflection". What it was is a solution.

.

Your post was a deflection because you asked why "business" is not hiring these people when it is Congress who, unconstitutionally, sets the rules for hiring employees. Under fascism, folks in government are responsible for who gets hired, fired, and who is a privileged class. You ought to learn where to point your accusatory finger.


JWK

"To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen [a working person’s earned wage] and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes [Obama’s Solyndra, Chevy Volt, Fisker, Exelon swindling deals] is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation."____ Savings and Loan Assc. v. Topeka,(1875).

What country are you posting from?
Here, companies are free to hire who they want.

Another creative deflection! The truth is, business owners are only free to hire who they want if they comply with regulatory employment rules imposed upon them by a fascistic government.

JWK


They are not “liberals”. They are conniving Marxist parasites who use the cloak of government force to steal the wealth which wage earners, business and investors have worked to create

 

[dcraelin]

Nope. Fascism is what the Democrat party endorses. That's what they're talking about when they refer to "public/private" partnership. And that's also what they are talking about when they say the want to ameliorate the so-called "evils" of capitalism with regulation.

I think I found a post I can partially agree with you on Bripat, tho I wouldn't go so far.

Public/Private partnerships ARE more susceptible to corruption than either apart, and should be avoided. But they are certainly not just the province of the Democratic Party there are plenty of Republicans that promote them.

 

[JoeNormal]

Well gee BriPat, it sounds like you'd like to have the option to chose between public and private in this case. You'd think that some enterprising individual would come along and propose just such a thing seeing how government cant do anything right and all. Why do you think they don't?

They don't because they are already paying for the government product. What I am asking for is to quit being forced to pay for the government product. If consumers had a choice, there wouldn't be any government run fire departments.

Yeah, I can imagine what a privatized court system would look like. Or a privatized police department. All run by the corporations. Maybe Rupert Murdock can purchase the NYPD, and have Fox become their spokesperson. God, you are dumb.

Exactly. There are already horror stories about the privatized incarceration system.

 

[PMZ]

That is exactly what fascism is.

Fascism is radical authoritarian nationalism. It is a right wing political movement, dipshit.

Yes Mussolini taking control of the government, the businesses, the military, private daily activities, and the media are all right wing moves. I will refrain from pointless name calling.

Mussolini was a Republican?

"taking control of the government, the businesses, the military, private daily activities, and the media are all right wing moves."

Sounds like a combination of Boehner, McConnell, Rove, Norquist, Trump, the Koch brothers, Limbaugh, Beck, and Ryan.

 

[dcraelin]

WOW some of you are posting fanatics. Tough to keep up

The US is a Democracy/Republic despite the views of some of the Framers. Some of the framers wanted a king....we dont have one. To pass the constitution they had to appeal to WE THE PEOPLE....that alone makes us a Democracy/Republic...........

 

[PMZ]

WOW some of you are posting fanatics. Tough to keep up

The US is a Democracy/Republic despite the views of some of the Framers. Some of the framers wanted a king....we dont have one. To pass the constitution they had to appeal to WE THE PEOPLE....that alone makes us a Democracy/Republic...........

Many people like to recall the sides of the debate rather than the negotiated decision documented by the Constitution.

A major decision was to avoid what turned out to be a big problem in Europe. Small states with no Union. Europe is still wrestling with that.

The old Confederacy too.

 

[originalthought]

There is no such thing as capitalism in America. Capitalism is an economy free from state control. That does not exist in America.

Then it's never existed anywhere. Ideologically capitalism would leave room for monopolies.

While it's common sense that capitalism without competition would lead to out of control profits, I don't think there is anything in the definition of it that requires competition.

You think there is such a thing as too much profit?

 

[originalthought]

Agree to disagree

Well no, it's just an incorrect statement that Capitalism would lead to monopolies. All monopolies have come into being through State intervention.

"All monopolies have come into being through State intervention"

I would say that this statement is completely wrong. Capitalism strives for monopolies. Government prevents them. At least in America.

Your logic Government prevent monopolies.
Yet the Government has created several monopolies. Post Office, AT&T. Your energy provider. Your public transportation. Your schools. These are just several off the top of my head.
If the government prevents monoplies, it cannot also be a creator of monopolies. Because you said government (in America) prevents them. But i have shown you that it also creates them.
You are an idiot full of contradictions.

Here is the true monopoly: "A government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.”

 

[PMZ]

Then it's never existed anywhere. Ideologically capitalism would leave room for monopolies.

While it's common sense that capitalism without competition would lead to out of control profits, I don't think there is anything in the definition of it that requires competition.

You think there is such a thing as too much profit?

Consumers do. They call it high prices.

 

[PMZ]

Well no, it's just an incorrect statement that Capitalism would lead to monopolies. All monopolies have come into being through State intervention.

"All monopolies have come into being through State intervention"

I would say that this statement is completely wrong. Capitalism strives for monopolies. Government prevents them. At least in America.

Your logic Government prevent monopolies.
Yet the Government has created several monopolies. Post Office, AT&T. Your energy provider. Your public transportation. Your schools. These are just several off the top of my head.
If the government prevents monoplies, it cannot also be a creator of monopolies. Because you said government (in America) prevents them. But i have shown you that it also creates them.
You are an idiot full of contradictions.

Here is the true monopoly: "A government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.”

When the government "creates monopolies" what's going on is the recognition that there's a market in which competition is not practical or even possible. In such a market capitalism will not work. So, the government owns the means and our control over that, rather than as consumers in a competitive market, is as voters in a democracy.

As a typical conservative, you are blind to the difference between democracy and tyranny, and treat them the same. Doing so eliminates a whole class of solutions to real problems which is the main reason that conservative government is an oxymoron and always fails.

 

[ShawnChris13]

While it's common sense that capitalism without competition would lead to out of control profits, I don't think there is anything in the definition of it that requires competition.

You think there is such a thing as too much profit?

Consumers do. They call it high prices.

Here I would agree. Foreign oil companies take in record profits every year due to artificially changing supply. When summer hits and road trips are on the rise so do gas prices. At the same time oil production is reduced too claim there is a shortage, which magically fixed itself every winter.

 

[PMZ]

You think there is such a thing as too much profit?

Consumers do. They call it high prices.

Here I would agree. Foreign oil companies take in record profits every year due to artificially changing supply. When summer hits and road trips are on the rise so do gas prices. At the same time oil production is reduced too claim there is a shortage, which magically fixed itself every winter.

I disagree only with the word "foreign".

 

[ShawnChris13]

consumers do. They call it high prices.

here i would agree. Foreign oil companies take in record profits every year due to artificially changing supply. When summer hits and road trips are on the rise so do gas prices. At the same time oil production is reduced too claim there is a shortage, which magically fixed itself every winter.

i disagree only with the word "foreign".

opec