promises promises yeah right!!

[Navy1960]

i was upset when i found out they closed Maine Yankee up here(it was while i was out of state)
and since coming back, we've had some of the worst power supply than at any other time in my life

Hey N.H. recently built a 130 wind farm enough to power about 10,000 homes. so who knows there might be enough left over to power up a light bulb or two. Then again you won't have to worry about having a large carbon footprint.

Hmm ... wonder just how much space that took up ...

In 2003, the couple signed a lease option giving Pennsylvania-based Community Energy Inc. permission to plant a dozen 400-foot turbines with 285-foot blades along three miles of Lempster Mountain's ridgeline. Earlier this month, Community Energy was purchased for $30 million by Spain-based Iberdrola, the world's largest wind-power producer.....

So much for the green jobs here in the US on this project at least Spain made out okay.. and for the 12 that have been built your talking about 3 miles Kitten...

 

[garyd]

Okay first the minute Obama said he was going to let the Bush tax cuts dies he essentially swore a 3% increase for the wealthiest tax payers and a 50% increase for the poorest tax payers.

 

[Navy1960]

Okay first the minute Obama said he was going to let the Bush tax cuts dies he essentially swore a 3% increase for the wealthiest tax payers and a 50% increase for the poorest tax payers.

Oh but in the mind of the President and many others it's not a tax on the poor of it's a value added tax, because you don't have to drive, eat, own a house, have utilities, pay for healthcare, and bascially do for yourself..... It's only a tax on the "rich" and those rich are getting poorer each time a new policy comes out, it was 250K now it's down to 100K .

 

[MaggieMae]

did Obama say what was claimed, or not
your link didnt even address it
what McCain's campaign said isnt even at question here
prove Obama didnt say that in Dover, NH as claimed

I'm not arguing that he didn't say it. I know exactly what he SAID, and I also know exactly what has been going on with the economy SINCE HE SAID IT. Jeezus, your like a bratty five-year old with your BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT mommie you said blah blah blah. What the fuck is your problem?

So now I can't bring in McCain either? No Bush, no McCain. Okay, in your feeble mind, the earth began rotating around the sun on January 21, 2009. Nothing of import happened before then. Idiot.

YOU are making excuses for his broken promises. Pretty simple concept. Remind us again how the Stimulas bill was SO important Congress voted for it with out ever reading it [THEY DID READ IT--or at least enough of it to pick out the portions to criticize on national television day in and day out.] and then Obama waited DAYS to sign it. Remind us how Obama claimed only those over 250 k would see tax increases. Remind us how the stimulus bill is FULL of pork for those that supported Obama, ACORN, UNIONS, and other groups and people. [It isn't "full" of pork. One man's "pork" is another man's job resulting from stimulus money. Obama didn't immediately sign it because of all the hoopla. The bill itself was done because of the hair on fire predictions of top financial experts advising both Obama AND George W. Bush.]

You are a disingenuous partisan hack.

No, just a very well-read one. Hack? Pot Meet Kettle. Try dragging your nose out of strictly right-wing media and you might stop making stupid remarks that have already been addressed as being, er, disingenuous.

 

[ba1614]

Iisn't "full" of pork. One man's "pork" is another man's job resulting from stimulus money.

LOL you gotta be fuckin' kidding me!

Nope, you certainly aren't a "partisan hack".

 

[Navy1960]

One town in North Carolina is using stimulus funds to hire an administrator whose job will be to procure more stimulus funds, according to the report.


One $250 check went to the home of Antonietta Santopadre, a 74-year-old retired hairdresser living in New York. The check was made out to her father, who died 35 years ago. In an interview Monday, Santopadre said: "I was infuriated. Where's our money going? Our country is in such trouble right now."
Stimulus program fraught with waste, report says - Los Angeles Times

Thats from the LA-Times hardly a bastion of right-wing thinking.

 

[MaggieMae]

The point here is that Obama ran for President on a "Change" message and was simply to point out what I've known all along and that is that "Change" was just that a slogan and nothing more. What your going to get is more of the same in a slicker package. However, with all this spending, its pretty much a given that taxes are going to go up for.. " EVERYONE" I just wish Obama had been honest enough with his "Change" message to say so. Then again, I don't think that would have gotten him elected and would have run contrary to the the great give away. As for cap and trade I'm simply going to say this, when you tax carbon on whatever form that may be, as an indirect tax it's still a tax. Even though it's in the form of value added taxes to things like gas, etc. .. Cap and Trade is a scheme and nothing more invented by enviro-business to reap the benefits of the so called "Global Warming" marketing scheme that has played itself out among such noted scientists as the like of Al Gore. Oh did I happen to mention that Mr. Gore just happens to be vested in a carbon trading company in London. So keep thinking about how wonderful Cap and Trade is going to be when countries like China and India laugh at the US and and keep on building coal fired plants at the rate of one every two weeks while we further weaken our economy at the expense of this nation and over burden our children to pay for another scheme. Getting back to my original thread topic though, was to simply point out that Obama is no different than any other political persona in that . say anything, do anything, to get there, and stay in power. ...

Oh come on. Obama had some valid propositions which were reactions to what the majority of Americans were yearning for--domestic priorities over foreign. Obviously neither he nor anyone else running for president could present audiences with every single detail (and background) concerning all the issues they try to cover during a campaign. That's the only thing that lends validity to your "point" of do-anything/say-anything.

So now that he's won on making domestic priorities his priority, Obama is doing exactly what ANY president would do and that is to embellish his "promises" by studying and acting on the best way to carry them out. It's a given that he (or any prez) would run into problems and roadblocks, and it's also a given that he (or any prez) won't get everything EXACTLY as he proposed during a campaign.

My biggest complaint, Navy, continues to be that his critics only do just that--criticize and pick at the weak part of any proposal he makes and then go on to make THOSE the talking points du jour, rather than offering alternative viable solutions. This president has more on his plate after only five months in office than any president in history. I continue to believe he should be given more time to totally screw up, as it appears you so desperately wish.

I've been making notes for months, and I plan to do my own six-month evaluation of Obama's successes and failures and the reasons why. But it will probably still fall on blind eyes and deaf ears to those who really don't care because failure and blame are all that interests them.

 

[MaggieMae]

[/quote=Navy1960]Want to see something even more interesting, Obama spent his campaign talking about clean *energy sources like "clean coal" and when questioned about nuclear power his responses were always luke warm or cool at best because well theres the storage issue right?

Large-scale storage of CO2 from power generation will require an extensive pipeline network in densely populated areas. This has safety implications.

Given that rock strata have held CO2 and methane for millions of years there seems no reason that carefully-chosen chosen ones cannot hold sequestered CO2. However, the eruption of a million tonnes of CO2 from Lake Nyos in Cameroon in 1986 asphyxiated 1700 people, so the consequences of major release of heavier-than-air gas are potentially serious.[/quote]

You're ignoring the nimby factor.

 

[MaggieMae]

yes Dive John McCain was put to task during the campaign by the Obama campaign because according to the Obama campaign the McCain campaigns plans would eventually lead to tax increases.

Now now, you will have Jillian and her cohorts in here telling you you are an idiot, liar and dumb ass. Obama is not raising any taxes, it is all Congress doing it and against the wishes of Obama. Never mind that Congress is controlled completely by the DEMOCRATS.

How dare you question " The One". He is FORCED by Bush to do these things. Ohh did I forget? Campaign promises are never ever true, so Obama did not lie, he just said what he needed to to get elected.

There several excuses to Cover Obama.

Hmmm.... I would review the list of promises with you, but the MSNBC page has expired. LOL

Todd: Obama's growing pains - Chuck Todd- msnbc.com
Updated February. 7, 2009

Track President Barack Obama's promises Explore and track the president's campaign pledges. See if Obama keeps his word, and vote on his progress during the first 100 days.
Todd: Obama's growing pains - Chuck Todd- msnbc.com

Didn't I post this website in this thread? Your own "excuse" for not finding out the information in a hundred OTHER places doesn't fly.

PolitiFact | Sorting out the truth in politics

 

[MaggieMae]

Okay first the minute Obama said he was going to let the Bush tax cuts dies he essentially swore a 3% increase for the wealthiest tax payers and a 50% increase for the poorest tax payers.

Rolling back the tax on upper income levels to that of the 90's would NO FUCKING WAY cause that kind of an increase for 50% of the poor.

 

[Navy1960]

[/quote=Navy1960]Want to see something even more interesting, Obama spent his campaign talking about clean *energy sources like "clean coal" and when questioned about nuclear power his responses were always luke warm or cool at best because well theres the storage issue right?

Large-scale storage of CO2 from power generation will require an extensive pipeline network in densely populated areas. This has safety implications.

Given that rock strata have held CO2 and methane for millions of years there seems no reason that carefully-chosen chosen ones cannot hold sequestered CO2. However, the eruption of a million tonnes of CO2 from Lake Nyos in Cameroon in 1986 asphyxiated 1700 people, so the consequences of major release of heavier-than-air gas are potentially serious.

You're ignoring the nimby factor.[/QUOTE]

Actually, Maggie thats a good point, when it comes to any energy source, however, there are several communities across the country that are realizing energy in any form wind, solar, nuclear, coal, means jobs. So I suppose my answer to the NIMBY factor would be come and BIMBY all you want!! and I think you may find Maggie this chant might get a little louder as the cost of energy rises due to stricter environmental regulations, taxes, and the wonderful cap and trade legislation comming soon to a congress near you!!

 

[MaggieMae]

Iisn't "full" of pork. One man's "pork" is another man's job resulting from stimulus money.

LOL you gotta be fuckin' kidding me!

Nope, you certainly aren't a "partisan hack".

Nor you? What's wrong with you fucking hypocrites? My politics differs from yours. In current lingo that makes us BOTH partisan hacks.

DUH...........

 

[Navy1960]

Harvard economist Martin Feldstein, who has advised Obama, warns that “the barrage of tax increases proposed in President Barack Obama’s budget could, if enacted by Congress, kill any chance of an early and sustained recovery.” He compares Obama’s tax increases to the ones that contributed to the Great Depression and the “Lost Decade” of economic stagnation and decay in Japan.

Feldstein, who serves on Obama’s economic advisory board, has also “warned of serious inflation and higher taxes down the road” as a result of Obama’s policies.

Feldstein singles out for criticism Obama’s proposed global-warming tax. “Mr. Obama’s biggest proposed tax increase is the cap-and-trade system of requiring businesses to buy carbon dioxide emission permits. . .CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf testified before the Senate Finance Committee on May 7 that the cap-and-trade price increases . . . would cost the average household roughly $1,600 a year, ranging from $700 in the lowest-income quintile to $2,200 in the highest-income quintile.”
Adviser Admits Obama’s Tax Increases May Kill Economic Recovery | OpenMarket.org

couple that with, healthcare, the stimulus, the auto-bailout, the recently passed tax on cigarettes, and a host of other Value added taxes and you have a tax increase on people making a LOT less than 100K a year.

 

[MaggieMae]

[/quote=Navy1960]Want to see something even more interesting, Obama spent his campaign talking about clean *energy sources like "clean coal" and when questioned about nuclear power his responses were always luke warm or cool at best because well theres the storage issue right?

Large-scale storage of CO2 from power generation will require an extensive pipeline network in densely populated areas. This has safety implications.

Given that rock strata have held CO2 and methane for millions of years there seems no reason that carefully-chosen chosen ones cannot hold sequestered CO2. However, the eruption of a million tonnes of CO2 from Lake Nyos in Cameroon in 1986 asphyxiated 1700 people, so the consequences of major release of heavier-than-air gas are potentially serious.

You're ignoring the nimby factor.

Actually, Maggie thats a good point, when it comes to any energy source, however, there are several communities across the country that are realizing energy in any form wind, solar, nuclear, coal, means jobs. So I suppose my answer to the NIMBY factor would be come and BIMBY all you want!! and I think you may find Maggie this chant might get a little louder as the cost of energy rises due to stricter environmental regulations, taxes, and the wonderful cap and trade legislation comming soon to a congress near you!![/QUOTE]

I'm not against nuclear power, nor building new plants. I'm not against offshore drilling, or clean coal technology (i.e., how to extract oil from shale that is a less costly process). I am against wind power but only because our power grids cannot handle what they would generate. The grid needs expanding first. Instead of cap and trade, I think we should simply penalize those coal-fired plants that have done nothing to minimalize the amount of crap spewed from their smokestacks. Isn't there already a law covering that? If they have been paying penalties, where does that windfall go? If they haven't, then let's get cracking.

 

[MaggieMae]

Harvard economist Martin Feldstein, who has advised Obama, warns that “the barrage of tax increases proposed in President Barack Obama’s budget could, if enacted by Congress, kill any chance of an early and sustained recovery.” He compares Obama’s tax increases to the ones that contributed to the Great Depression and the “Lost Decade” of economic stagnation and decay in Japan.

Feldstein, who serves on Obama’s economic advisory board, has also “warned of serious inflation and higher taxes down the road” as a result of Obama’s policies.

Feldstein singles out for criticism Obama’s proposed global-warming tax. “Mr. Obama’s biggest proposed tax increase is the cap-and-trade system of requiring businesses to buy carbon dioxide emission permits. . .CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf testified before the Senate Finance Committee on May 7 that the cap-and-trade price increases . . . would cost the average household roughly $1,600 a year, ranging from $700 in the lowest-income quintile to $2,200 in the highest-income quintile.”
Adviser Admits Obama’s Tax Increases May Kill Economic Recovery*|*OpenMarket.org

couple that with, healthcare, the stimulus, the auto-bailout, the recently passed tax on cigarettes, and a host of other Value added taxes and you have a tax increase on people making a LOT less than 100K a year.

I'll have to double check, but I believe it was Martin Feldstein who last November or December was all in favor of a BIG stimulus package similar to what got enacted. I don't have time to look for where I saw that right now.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."
PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

I frankly don't see this as a big surprise, given all the Obama spending and the yet to come spending he need to pay for this is yet another campaign promise that is just that a gimmick to get people to vote for him. Then today you hear that Senate Democrats are proposing a tax increase on. anyone over 100,000 dollars a year on their healthcare benefits.

Only children and fools believe a Leftist... and children, only once.

 

[Navy1960]

[/quote=Navy1960]Want to see something even more interesting, Obama spent his campaign talking about clean *energy sources like "clean coal" and when questioned about nuclear power his responses were always luke warm or cool at best because well theres the storage issue right?

Large-scale storage of CO2 from power generation will require an extensive pipeline network in densely populated areas. This has safety implications.

Given that rock strata have held CO2 and methane for millions of years there seems no reason that carefully-chosen chosen ones cannot hold sequestered CO2. However, the eruption of a million tonnes of CO2 from Lake Nyos in Cameroon in 1986 asphyxiated 1700 people, so the consequences of major release of heavier-than-air gas are potentially serious.

You're ignoring the nimby factor.

Actually, Maggie thats a good point, when it comes to any energy source, however, there are several communities across the country that are realizing energy in any form wind, solar, nuclear, coal, means jobs. So I suppose my answer to the NIMBY factor would be come and BIMBY all you want!! and I think you may find Maggie this chant might get a little louder as the cost of energy rises due to stricter environmental regulations, taxes, and the wonderful cap and trade legislation comming soon to a congress near you!!

I'm not against nuclear power, nor building new plants. I'm not against offshore drilling, or clean coal technology (i.e., how to extract oil from shale that is a less costly process). I am against wind power but only because our power grids cannot handle what they would generate. The grid needs expanding first. Instead of cap and trade, I think we should simply penalize those coal-fired plants that have done nothing to minimalize the amount of crap spewed from their smokestacks. Isn't there already a law covering that? If they have been paying penalties, where does that windfall go? If they haven't, then let's get cracking.[/QUOTE]

The Clean Air Act also provides several provisions used to fight proposed and existing plants. The Act established National Ambient Air Quality Standards (NAAQS) to regulate pollutants including sulfur dioxide, particulate matter, nitrogen oxides, ozone, lead, and carbon monoxide. In addition, New Source Review (NSR) regulations require that stationary sources of air pollution, including coal-fired power plants, get permits before construction can begin. Under NSR, Prevention of Significant Deterioration (PSD) permits are required for new coal plants and for existing plants that are being modified in a way that will significantly increase emissions. These permits require the installation of Best Available Control Technology (BACT) for regulated pollutants...

Coal plant litigation - SourceWatch

Personally Maggie, I'm an all technology person, and believe that all these technologies, can be used in an environmentally friendly way, including coal, nuclear, solar, wind, bio-mass and also provide a much needed economic boost to local communites when doing so. The problem is depending on who is in power at the moment, is where the winds blow. So what you end up with is a nation that has not bulit a nuclear power facility in over 25 years or a petro refineray in about the same amount of time because the enviro-lobby has targeted these technologies as bad. The funny thing is though Maggie, is the utter falicy of the whole arguement, because as they place ever stricter regulations on our nation and choke off energy production here and make us ever more dependant on other nations. Those other nations, like China who builds coal plants around one every two weeks, and Russis, and India and several others march onward. In fact our ability to build nuclear plants has gotten to such a state Russia as even started to offer to build reactors for communities here in the United States because there is no longer a steele forge large enough to make a reactor vessel for a commercial power plant.

 

[ba1614]

Iisn't "full" of pork. One man's "pork" is another man's job resulting from stimulus money.

LOL you gotta be fuckin' kidding me!

Nope, you certainly aren't a "partisan hack".

Nor you? What's wrong with you fucking hypocrites? My politics differs from yours. In current lingo that makes us BOTH partisan hacks.

DUH...........

Nope, I'll freely admit that Mr Busch, and his administration, had their fair share of fuckups.
You, however, seem to think the current administration is infallible, and walk on water. Your constant defense of what they are doing, even the "pork", is laughable, and really does make you look desperate at times.

 

[AllieBaba]

And Bill Clinton beat GHWB to death with the "Read my lips" shit so expect the same to be done to Obama when, not if, he raises taxes.

Okay.

The strange phenomenon remains, however, that people continue to want expensive programs like universal health care (Gallup poll over the weekend shows 79%), yet they are worried about deficit spending, which universal health care would dramatically increase (last week's NBC/NYT poll of 59%). Everyone wants cake but don't want to make it or buy it, just eat it.

That was a bad guess without looking it up. It was actually a CBS/NYT poll at 72%.

PollingReport.com

In that link, click on the health care issue and you'll get a picture of the mood of the country, which clearly indicates they want something. What "something" will look like remains anyone's guess at this point.

Do you make things up on a regular basis?

What am I saying. Of course you do.

 

[MaggieMae]

LOL you gotta be fuckin' kidding me!

Nope, you certainly aren't a "partisan hack".

Nor you? What's wrong with you fucking hypocrites? My politics differs from yours. In current lingo that makes us BOTH partisan hacks.

DUH...........

Nope, I'll freely admit that Mr Busch, and his administration, had their fair share of fuckups. Yup. They all say that. Now...
You, however, seem to think the current administration is infallible, and walk on water. Your constant defense of what they are doing, even the "pork", is laughable, and really does make you look desperate at times.

I've never claimed Obama walked on water; I've never just gushingly supported him at all. I have defended him against mindless and insignificant nonsense; I've defended his attempt to fulfill campaign promises. I've also criticized where due, in my opinion (posted elsewhere in myriad other threads). And I also almost ALWAYS know what I'm talking about. Not saying I'll be proven "right" all the time, but I rarely make a statement without solid backup supporting it.

What do you ever have to contribute to the conversation?