Question for those that support sanctuary cities/states.

[Humorme]

Let me explain again what I really do for a living in last 28 years before I took over the business from my parents.
I’m in the medical industry business. Part of my business is to service hospitals all over the country. I have employees as Field Service Technicians that service assigned territories. If I need information about titi bars, good or bad restaurants, housings, cost of living, foods, rentals, city conditions, elected officials etc etc etc. I can find that out easily.
I know ton and tons of business owners from different kinds of categories from naked bar, buildings, casinos, hospitals, restaurants, farmers, instrument manufacturers, registry engineer or RN etc.etc. etc.


On the side I really want to get back with Humorme about the Kaiser Hospital in Duluth where he claimed that only fewer than 15% are white doctors. But moderator close the thread before I can respond.

Forgot to mention. I also know a porno business owner. The reason I just remember this because of his house in Montecito, Ca that got flooded last Sunday cost $8.1 millions & 4 cars total lost, just moved in late this year. His house was just shown in local news here. I’ve been to that house last October and ate dinner with him last night in his other house in Beverly Hills.

Read this link. This is the owner of Kim Kardashian’s porno video. I know how much percentage Kim K. getting every month. I also know how much are these female porno or male actress are getting paid.
If you asked me........ Have I seen live actual porno actions? Yes several times and it was quite an interesting experience. You will be shocked how low they are getting paid, who & where these beautiful women came from. Sad story. Now I can say these are predominantly white women, white male and black male. LOL Asians are not complaining.

Most successful porno actress which regards to how much $ she got paid was Jana Jameson. But this business has so much competition that brought the prices down tremendously. LOL you cannot blame the illegals for driving the cost down.

It was Bruce Jenner who made K. Kardashian’s video successful that made her very rich and famous. That was a very good and smart business move. During the height of that video Kim K was getting an average of $10 millions a month now it’s down to less than $1 million a month.

The dumbest one was Pamela Anderson & her husband then Tommy Lee stolen porno video.
The whole world will see it anyway whether she likes it or not. So why not just let it go and make money just like Kim K. She end up getting nothing.

Donald Trump's Labor Nominee Sells His Mansion To Porn Mogul For $8 Million

Let me explain again what I really do for a living in last 28 years before I took over the business from my parents.
I’m in the medical industry business. Part of my business is to service hospitals all over the country. I have employees as Field Service Technicians that service assigned territories. If I need information about titi bars, good or bad restaurants, housings, cost of living, foods, rentals, city conditions, elected officials etc etc etc. I can find that out easily.
I know ton and tons of business owners from different kinds of categories from naked bar, buildings, casinos, hospitals, restaurants, farmers, instrument manufacturers, registry engineer or RN etc.etc. etc.


On the side I really want to get back with Humorme about the Kaiser Hospital in Duluth where he claimed that only fewer than 15% are white doctors. But moderator close the thread before I can respond.

If it helps, PM me. I can refer you to somewhere that you can discuss this privately.

As i posted several times here. I know tons of businesses and business owners and farmers. These where I based my facts and opinions when it come to this topic.

The economy is booming. Without these illegals the economy will not be this good especially here in California the 6th largest economy of the world. That’s a fact.

California Crops Rot as Immigration Crackdown Creates Farmworker Shortage

Georgia has had the same problem for years:

Georgia's Harsh Immigration Law Costs Millions in Unharvested Crops

Migrant workers still in need

"Crops went untended as the season's harvest began, and more than $1 million a day vanished as the human-fueled agricultural harvest machine of migrant labor in the United States stalled."

Ben Carson's Immigrant Visa Idea Favored By Farmers As Nation's Crops Rot

It's been an issue in Alabama for years as well and some say this is a problem nationwide (and has been for as long as the crackdowns have been going on):

Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business

Crops rot while Trump-led immigration backlash idles farm work

If they used the H2A visa, then there would be no problems for them, they would have all the labor they need since there are no annual caps for the H2A nor is there a limit to how many a single farmer can bring in.

1. Illegals are here and they need to work instead of relying from welfare. Why is that so bad?
2. If it’s easier and cost effective to hire H2A don’t you think all of them could have done that?

Your opinion does not reflect the reality.

Between posts # 255 and # 260 you must've gotten a lot of extreme responses. I don't see them as I've been forced to include a lot of trolls on my ignore list.

For the record...

There is no logical, honest, logical, or justifiable reason why people who are in this country without papers should not be allowed to work, earn money and partake of opportunities willingly offered.

The monotonous chant of "it's illegal" is no excuse to attempt to over-rule the will of the people who have spoken. Nobody twists any Americans arm and forces them to hire, rent to, sell to, buy from, or otherwise do business with people the radical right insists on calling "illegal aliens." If they're here and working while not being a public charge we need to get over it.

The best way for the American people to impose this anti-immigrant policy is simple: Don't do business with them. Don't allow your politicians to give them any freebies (that includes a constitutional amendment to deny their children a free public education.)

If you neighbor disagrees with you, then boycott your neighbor's business interests. That way, if you choose to pay $5 for a handful of fruit because a bonded, back-ground checked, USDA approved white, English speaking, dude with a National ID Card, driver's license, Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops "Social Security Number," that underwent the pee test, blood test, hair sample, MVR check, Interpol check, NICS check, local criminal background check, credit check, lie detector test, with a union card and a fruit picker's license then go with God and do it. If you don't care who picked the fruit and you buy it for $1 because the farmer employed migrant workers, you should have that Right.

In the middle, we can create citizen solutions so that Americans and migrant workers can take the jobs without the BS, no crops will rot in the field and we may have to pay $2 for the same handful of fruit.

That suggestion is a starting point.

 

[Coyote]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

In my personal opinion...it's complicated.

No, I don't believe in "open boarders" - we need a good immigration and border policy to protect our country.

I think it's important to have a good border security policy. I don't support a physical wall because of it's effect on the natural migrations of wildlife and on border communities. But there are many other good ways of improving security that don't involve a wall.

When it comes to those already here - I am not that concerned unless they commit a violent crime. Then, upon conviction (and jail time) - boot them out. Otherwise I see it as a lesser category of crime...like trespassing. I would rather spend law enforcement dollars on violent crimes - murder, rape, gang violence, drug violence.

I guess I don't understand why an illegal immigrant should be in the same category as a violent rapist.

 

[JoeMoma]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

In my personal opinion...it's complicated.

No, I don't believe in "open boarders" - we need a good immigration and border policy to protect our country.

I think it's important to have a good border security policy. I don't support a physical wall because of it's effect on the natural migrations of wildlife and on border communities. But there are many other good ways of improving security that don't involve a wall.

When it comes to those already here - I am not that concerned unless they commit a violent crime. Then, upon conviction (and jail time) - boot them out. Otherwise I see it as a lesser category of crime...like trespassing. I would rather spend law enforcement dollars on violent crimes - murder, rape, gang violence, drug violence.

I guess I don't understand why an illegal immigrant should be in the same category as a violent rapist.

So if Joe Illegal can sneak across the border tomorrow,then he becomes part of the already here category and gets de facto legal status? I think it sends a mixed message to to have “border security” at the border but no means of enforcement within the borders once someone manages to breach that security.

I agree that it is a lessor category of crime than rape and murder and such. Usually Trespassers are at minimum made to leave when they are caught trespassing.

That being said, if we stop giving those here illegally de facto legal status by allowing them access to things like public schools, driver’s licenses, jobs (not using e-verify), etc then there will be much less incentive for new illegal immigration.

 

[Humorme]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

In my personal opinion...it's complicated.

No, I don't believe in "open boarders" - we need a good immigration and border policy to protect our country.

I think it's important to have a good border security policy. I don't support a physical wall because of it's effect on the natural migrations of wildlife and on border communities. But there are many other good ways of improving security that don't involve a wall.

When it comes to those already here - I am not that concerned unless they commit a violent crime. Then, upon conviction (and jail time) - boot them out. Otherwise I see it as a lesser category of crime...like trespassing. I would rather spend law enforcement dollars on violent crimes - murder, rape, gang violence, drug violence.

I guess I don't understand why an illegal immigrant should be in the same category as a violent rapist.

So if Joe Illegal can sneak across the border tomorrow,then he becomes part of the already here category and gets de facto legal status? I think it sends a mixed message to to have “border security” at the border but no means of enforcement within the borders once someone manages to breach that security.

I agree that it is a lessor category of crime than rape and murder and such. Usually Trespassers are at minimum made to leave when they are caught trespassing.

That being said, if we stop giving those here illegally de facto legal status by allowing them access to things like public schools, driver’s licenses, jobs (not using e-verify), etc then there will be much less incentive for new illegal immigration.

If you deny things like access to public schools, welfare, and other government benefits, what is your problem with undocumented foreigners?

At the end of the day, you are still insinuating that someone must be a citizen or on the path to citizenship in order to be able to participate in the free market. Here's the real bottom line problem:

Those who are on this border security kick cannot differentiate between citizenship and the Rights of every human. When I hire people around my place, if they've done work for a neighbor; if I like their prices / terms; if I get the warm and fuzzy feeling, then they get the job. No matter what laws they pass, that is never going to change.

If you want people to come here "legally," let them come in at a border checkpoint. Issue Worker IDs if necessary. But, this dishonest and totalitarian B.S. of visas that are capped and endless delays just to enter the United States is idiotic, pointless, and tyrannical. It makes a mockery of the view that our country is open to anyone. You can't have the Statue of Liberty welcoming people into the country on one hand and then making it impossible for people to come here.

The bottom line is that YOU would not allow a worthless piece of paper, issued by a tyrannical government deter YOU from taking a job to feed your family. YOU would not allow Donald Trump to tell you that you couldn't go to Mexico and take a job there in order to feed your family - AND have to forfeit your citizenship here just to keep a roof over your family's head.

You can sugar-coat it any way you want, but the nutty wall idea came from people who want the United States to be an all white country. I'd have more respect for them and their supporters if they would simply quit trying to pee down our necks and tell us it's raining. A lot of undocumented workers are being discovered today that have been here for twenty years or more. They have gotten an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, paid the taxes, and obeyed all the other laws. They did not become citizens. They may have had opportunities to become citizens and they passed on it. What's the real problem? Where is the security issue? Why should anyone stand in any line in order to exercise the Rights of Liberty? Guest Workers don't need to be standing in a line with people wanting to become citizens. Guest Workers shouldn't even be on a list to become a citizen.

Look, if you have a problem with those people working the jobs, then boycott businesses that employ an inordinate amount of foreigners. I see people offering jobs to Muslims, Jews, etc. and if I don't see some American faces, I boycott the business. I don't try to tell that business who to hire nor what to pay. If foreigners come here properly and they don't assimilate, I don't give two hoots in Hell what their story is. They are no better than the paper-less foreigner that comes here and blends in. Denying one employer the opportunity to hire a foreigner by making them stand in a line that ought to be for people seeking citizenship (and even those ought to be able to come and wait if they have the financial ability to be here) is discriminatory - and unconstitutional - as it denies the employer the equal protection of the laws. If you don't like foreigners, then let the market decide. If Americans don't want them here, don't hire them, don't sell to them, and quit shopping at businesses that employ them. But, don't assume you have the Right to stand in the way of the Liberties of your fellow American NOR the foreigner who takes advantage of an opportunity willingly offered.

 

[JoeMoma]

If you deny things like access to public schools, welfare, and other government benefits, what is your problem with undocumented foreigners?

Those things are not denied. If they were denied, I don’t think we would have an illegal immigration problem.

Also, like it or not, our republic has passed laws restricting immigration. Those laws should either be enforced or changed/repealed. I don’t have the right to enter another country without permission. Non-citizens don’t have the right to enter the USA without permission either.

We are essentially giving illegal immigrants squatter’s rights by having this “we are not going to touch you” attitude for those that set up residence without following the rules.

 

[JoeMoma]

If you want people to come here "legally," let them come in at a border checkpoint. Issue Worker IDs if necessary. But, this dishonest and totalitarian B.S. of visas that are capped and endless delays just to enter the United States is idiotic, pointless, and tyrannical. It makes a mockery of the view that our country is open to anyone. You can't have the Statue of Liberty welcoming people into the country on one hand and then making it impossible for people to come here.

A plaque placed at a statue does not make law or immigration policy. Currently, our country is not open to everyone by law passed by congress and signed by the president.

 

[danielpalos]

The Party of Increased Litigation and not much legislative accomplishment, Strikes Again!

 

[danielpalos]

If you want people to come here "legally," let them come in at a border checkpoint. Issue Worker IDs if necessary. But, this dishonest and totalitarian B.S. of visas that are capped and endless delays just to enter the United States is idiotic, pointless, and tyrannical. It makes a mockery of the view that our country is open to anyone. You can't have the Statue of Liberty welcoming people into the country on one hand and then making it impossible for people to come here.

A plaque placed at a statue does not make law or immigration policy. Currently, our country is not open to everyone by law passed by congress and signed by the president.

Stop using the Peoples' resources to create the Hellish conditions of warfare on Earth, we should be promoting the general welfare at every opportunity.

 

[JoeMoma]

If you want people to come here "legally," let them come in at a border checkpoint. Issue Worker IDs if necessary. But, this dishonest and totalitarian B.S. of visas that are capped and endless delays just to enter the United States is idiotic, pointless, and tyrannical. It makes a mockery of the view that our country is open to anyone. You can't have the Statue of Liberty welcoming people into the country on one hand and then making it impossible for people to come here.

A plaque placed at a statue does not make law or immigration policy. Currently, our country is not open to everyone by law passed by congress and signed by the president.

Stop using the Peoples' resources to create the Hellish conditions of warfare on Earth, we should be promoting the general welfare at every opportunity.

I will add that to my list of New Years resolutions.
1. Lose weight
2. Stop using the People’s resources to create Hellish conditions of warfare.

 

[JoeMoma]

The bottom line is that YOU would not allow a worthless piece of paper, issued by a tyrannical government deter YOU from taking a job to feed your family. YOU would not allow Donald Trump to tell you that you couldn't go to Mexico and take a job there in order to feed your family - AND have to forfeit your citizenship here just to keep a roof over your family's head.

If I break the law either in the United States or any other country to provide for my family, I better be prepared to pay the consequences of breaking that law. If the consequences are too high, I will most likely find another way.

 

[task0778]

If you want people to come here "legally," let them come in at a border checkpoint. Issue Worker IDs if necessary. But, this dishonest and totalitarian B.S. of visas that are capped and endless delays just to enter the United States is idiotic, pointless, and tyrannical. It makes a mockery of the view that our country is open to anyone. You can't have the Statue of Liberty welcoming people into the country on one hand and then making it impossible for people to come here.

A plaque placed at a statue does not make law or immigration policy. Currently, our country is not open to everyone by law passed by congress and signed by the president.

Except for those sanctuary cities and states that openly flout that law for purely political purposes.

 

[JoeMoma]

You can sugar-coat it any way you want, but the nutty wall idea came from people who want the United States to be an all white country.

The United States is already diverse. Also, it’s not just white people that want the wall.

 

[danielpalos]

If you want people to come here "legally," let them come in at a border checkpoint. Issue Worker IDs if necessary. But, this dishonest and totalitarian B.S. of visas that are capped and endless delays just to enter the United States is idiotic, pointless, and tyrannical. It makes a mockery of the view that our country is open to anyone. You can't have the Statue of Liberty welcoming people into the country on one hand and then making it impossible for people to come here.

A plaque placed at a statue does not make law or immigration policy. Currently, our country is not open to everyone by law passed by congress and signed by the president.

Except for those sanctuary cities and states that openly flout that law for purely political purposes.

First degrees need to go first!

 

[Humorme]

If you deny things like access to public schools, welfare, and other government benefits, what is your problem with undocumented foreigners?

Those things are not denied. If they were denied, I don’t think we would have an illegal immigration problem.

Also, like it or not, our republic has passed laws restricting immigration. Those laws should either be enforced or changed/repealed. I don’t have the right to enter another country without permission. Non-citizens don’t have the right to enter the USA without permission either.

We are essentially giving illegal immigrants squatter’s rights by having this “we are not going to touch you” attitude for those that set up residence without following the rules.

At the expense of severe trolling, I will tell you this:

The ONLY thing keeping people from coming here properly, as differentiated from illegally is a VERY POORLY WRITTEN FEDERAL STATUTE. Those who enforce the laws have one interpretation of the law; those who dominate these boards, promoting intolerance of foreigners have a view... and there is another possible view.

The first view of the statute (and I will not discuss it further than this entry on this thread - so PM me) is that there is a criminal statute, making improper entry a crime. The anti-immigrant lobby dares anyone to challenge them on this (to the point of threatening their lives for what I'll say in my next paragraph.)

The second view is that there is a federal civil law that makes coming here without papers a civil misdemeanor. This has been the prevailing view for decades. It is the basis on which immigration officials have interpreted the law.

Finally, the way the law is written, some laymen believe that one can be charged both criminally and civilly for the same offense. They cannot.

When any law is unenforceable, it should be repealed. And those exercising common sense will remember that employers treat workers as if they are commodities and goods. They are numbers and to put it into the words of the 19th century economist, Otto T. Mallery:

“If soldiers are not to cross international boundaries, goods must do so. Unless the Shackles can be dropped from trade, bombs will be dropped from the sky.”

In short, you can regulate Liberty, but you cannot criminalize it.

 

[Humorme]

If you want people to come here "legally," let them come in at a border checkpoint. Issue Worker IDs if necessary. But, this dishonest and totalitarian B.S. of visas that are capped and endless delays just to enter the United States is idiotic, pointless, and tyrannical. It makes a mockery of the view that our country is open to anyone. You can't have the Statue of Liberty welcoming people into the country on one hand and then making it impossible for people to come here.

A plaque placed at a statue does not make law or immigration policy. Currently, our country is not open to everyone by law passed by congress and signed by the president.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." (an excerpt from the Declaration of Independence)

“The Declaration of Independence...[is the] declaratory charter of our rights, and of the rights of man.” (Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence)

 

[Humorme]

You can sugar-coat it any way you want, but the nutty wall idea came from people who want the United States to be an all white country.

The United States is already diverse. Also, it’s not just white people that want the wall.

Two illiterate skanks don't prove much. We use to have an Executive Officer in the state militia that was pro-Confederate flag. He was black. Ask 99 out of 100 people today and the Confederate flag is a racist symbol.

The anti-immigrant argument was developed by a former neo-nazi turned Klansman, turned right wing political hack.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

If you deny things like access to public schools, welfare, and other government benefits, what is your problem with undocumented foreigners?

Those things are not denied. If they were denied, I don’t think we would have an illegal immigration problem.

Also, like it or not, our republic has passed laws restricting immigration. Those laws should either be enforced or changed/repealed. I don’t have the right to enter another country without permission. Non-citizens don’t have the right to enter the USA without permission either.

We are essentially giving illegal immigrants squatter’s rights by having this “we are not going to touch you” attitude for those that set up residence without following the rules.

At the expense of severe trolling, I will tell you this:

The ONLY thing keeping people from coming here properly, as differentiated from illegally is a VERY POORLY WRITTEN FEDERAL STATUTE. Those who enforce the laws have one interpretation of the law; those who dominate these boards, promoting intolerance of foreigners have a view... and there is another possible view.

The first view of the statute (and I will not discuss it further than this entry on this thread - so PM me) is that there is a criminal statute, making improper entry a crime. The anti-immigrant lobby dares anyone to challenge them on this (to the point of threatening their lives for what I'll say in my next paragraph.)

The second view is that there is a federal civil law that makes coming here without papers a civil misdemeanor. This has been the prevailing view for decades. It is the basis on which immigration officials have interpreted the law.

Finally, the way the law is written, some laymen believe that one can be charged both criminally and civilly for the same offense. They cannot.

When any law is unenforceable, it should be repealed. And those exercising common sense will remember that employers treat workers as if they are commodities and goods. They are numbers and to put it into the words of the 19th century economist, Otto T. Mallery:

“If soldiers are not to cross international boundaries, goods must do so. Unless the Shackles can be dropped from trade, bombs will be dropped from the sky.”

In short, you can regulate Liberty, but you cannot criminalize it.

There is no thing called a civil misdemeanor. SMFH Misdemeanors are criminal acts, they are violations of law. How is improper entry unenforceable? Liberty doesn't grant one the right to enter another country without its authorization. SHRUG

 

[danielpalos]

If you deny things like access to public schools, welfare, and other government benefits, what is your problem with undocumented foreigners?

Those things are not denied. If they were denied, I don’t think we would have an illegal immigration problem.

Also, like it or not, our republic has passed laws restricting immigration. Those laws should either be enforced or changed/repealed. I don’t have the right to enter another country without permission. Non-citizens don’t have the right to enter the USA without permission either.

We are essentially giving illegal immigrants squatter’s rights by having this “we are not going to touch you” attitude for those that set up residence without following the rules.

At the expense of severe trolling, I will tell you this:

The ONLY thing keeping people from coming here properly, as differentiated from illegally is a VERY POORLY WRITTEN FEDERAL STATUTE. Those who enforce the laws have one interpretation of the law; those who dominate these boards, promoting intolerance of foreigners have a view... and there is another possible view.

The first view of the statute (and I will not discuss it further than this entry on this thread - so PM me) is that there is a criminal statute, making improper entry a crime. The anti-immigrant lobby dares anyone to challenge them on this (to the point of threatening their lives for what I'll say in my next paragraph.)

The second view is that there is a federal civil law that makes coming here without papers a civil misdemeanor. This has been the prevailing view for decades. It is the basis on which immigration officials have interpreted the law.

Finally, the way the law is written, some laymen believe that one can be charged both criminally and civilly for the same offense. They cannot.

When any law is unenforceable, it should be repealed. And those exercising common sense will remember that employers treat workers as if they are commodities and goods. They are numbers and to put it into the words of the 19th century economist, Otto T. Mallery:

“If soldiers are not to cross international boundaries, goods must do so. Unless the Shackles can be dropped from trade, bombs will be dropped from the sky.”

In short, you can regulate Liberty, but you cannot criminalize it.

10USC246 is federal law; when is the right wing going to be legal to federal law?

 

[task0778]

I know! Let's have open borders and sanctuary cities and states everywhere so you do can pretty much do whatever you want up including shooting people and get away with it. Oh, and then let's give 'em every benefit that American citizens get, the whole 9 yards. Most of 'em will vote democrat so we'll be back in charge! The country will go to hell in a handbasket but who cares, we'll blame the repubs!

 

[danielpalos]

You can sugar-coat it any way you want, but the nutty wall idea came from people who want the United States to be an all white country.

The United States is already diverse. Also, it’s not just white people that want the wall.

Two illiterate skanks don't prove much. We use to have an Executive Officer in the state militia that was pro-Confederate flag. He was black. Ask 99 out of 100 people today and the Confederate flag is a racist symbol.

The anti-immigrant argument was developed by a former neo-nazi turned Klansman, turned right wing political hack.

Rebels without a Cause is more like it. Why glorify it.