Question for those who believe you can lose your salvation

[Chuckt]

Question for those who believe you can lose your salvation:

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

If God is not counting people's sins against them then when does God count their sins against them so that they would lose salvation?

I think the reason God doesn't count our sins against us is because He counts our sins against Jesus.

Just a thought...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If one rejects Salvation through Jesus and ACTIVELY knowingly serves Satan one can be condemned to eternal death.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Question for those who believe you can lose your salvation:

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

If God is not counting people's sins against them then when does God count their sins against them so that they would lose salvation?

I think the reason God doesn't count our sins against us is because He counts our sins against Jesus.

Just a thought...

If G-d didn't hold our sins against us there would be no need for commandments. Would point out too, that the belief you can't loose your salvation is hugely dependent upon given denominations believing that. They don't all agree. The various Christian denominations differ significantly on key elements of faith. So just because one may, doesn't mean all of Christianity does. Consequently, it's something everyone should consider very very carefully before possibly risking your soul ignoring G-d's Law. Your denomination may be wrong, it may be right, it may be partially wrong or right. But common sense suggests we can be negatively judged as per there being over 600 commandments.

 

[theword]

Question for those who believe you can lose your salvation:

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

If God is not counting people's sins against them then when does God count their sins against them so that they would lose salvation?

I think the reason God doesn't count our sins against us is because He counts our sins against Jesus.

Just a thought...

Before any visible world appeared, God already planned and created the salvation of ALL His people. We saints are God's servants who read the prophecies so that God can interpret them and from these interpretations, we learn that He planned the salvation of ALL His people, not just a few who obeyed His commandments.

This following prophecy was written about 2700 years ago before billions of God's people were born yet.

Isaiah 25: 6-9
6: On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of fat things, a feast of wine on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wine on the lees well refined.
7: And he will destroy on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations.
8: He will swallow up death for ever, and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth; for the LORD has spoken.
9: It will be said on that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the LORD; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation."

Salvation is a done deal but most of God's people are too impatient to wait until their flesh perishes in this age so their spirit can go on to the next age and receive new flesh that will never die again.

 

[Avatar4321]

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. (Hebrews 6:4-6)

Why does Hebrews give this warning if there was no chance of falling away?

I think the question we should ask is if we have tasted of the Heavenly gift.

 

[Moonglow]

I am saving my salvation for my next life after reincarnation.

 

[Chuckt]

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. (Hebrews 6:4-6)

Why does Hebrews give this warning if there was no chance of falling away?

I think the question we should ask is if we have tasted of the Heavenly gift.

Because the prepositions are talking about them. It is not talking about us.

 

[hobelim]

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. (Hebrews 6:4-6)

Why does Hebrews give this warning if there was no chance of falling away?

I think the question we should ask is if we have tasted of the Heavenly gift.

a good question. according to Jesus some people will think they are saved, but really are not.

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of iniquity." Matthew 7:21-23

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Question for those who believe you can lose your salvation:

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

If God is not counting people's sins against them then when does God count their sins against them so that they would lose salvation?

I think the reason God doesn't count our sins against us is because He counts our sins against Jesus.

Just a thought...

If G-d didn't hold our sins against us there would be no need for commandments. Would point out too, that the belief you can't loose your salvation is hugely dependent upon given denominations believing that. They don't all agree. The various Christian denominations differ significantly on key elements of faith. So just because one may, doesn't mean all of Christianity does. Consequently, it's something everyone should consider very very carefully before possibly risking your soul ignoring G-d's Law. Your denomination may be wrong, it may be right, it may be partially wrong or right. But common sense suggests we can be negatively judged as per there being over 600 commandments.

Quoting -
If G-d didn't hold our sins against us there would be no need for commandments. Would point out too, that the belief you can't loose your salvation is hugely dependent upon given denominations believing that. They don't all agree. The various Christian denominations differ significantly on key elements of faith. So just because one may, doesn't mean all of Christianity does. Consequently, it's something everyone should consider very very carefully before possibly risking your soul ignoring G-d's Law. Your denomination may be wrong, it may be right, it may be partially wrong or right.

very well said!

note* there would have been no reason for G-d to have sent Jesus to die on a cross shedding His blood for remission of sins & His Holy Spirit to endue us with power to live the life & walk as Jesus did...

 

[theword]

Question for those who believe you can lose your salvation:

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

If God is not counting people's sins against them then when does God count their sins against them so that they would lose salvation?

I think the reason God doesn't count our sins against us is because He counts our sins against Jesus.

Just a thought...

If G-d didn't hold our sins against us there would be no need for commandments. Would point out too, that the belief you can't loose your salvation is hugely dependent upon given denominations believing that. They don't all agree. The various Christian denominations differ significantly on key elements of faith. So just because one may, doesn't mean all of Christianity does. Consequently, it's something everyone should consider very very carefully before possibly risking your soul ignoring G-d's Law. Your denomination may be wrong, it may be right, it may be partially wrong or right. But common sense suggests we can be negatively judged as per there being over 600 commandments.

Quoting -
If G-d didn't hold our sins against us there would be no need for commandments. Would point out too, that the belief you can't loose your salvation is hugely dependent upon given denominations believing that. They don't all agree. The various Christian denominations differ significantly on key elements of faith. So just because one may, doesn't mean all of Christianity does. Consequently, it's something everyone should consider very very carefully before possibly risking your soul ignoring G-d's Law. Your denomination may be wrong, it may be right, it may be partially wrong or right.

very well said!

note* there would have been no reason for G-d to have sent Jesus to die on a cross shedding His blood for remission of sins & His Holy Spirit to endue us with power to live the life & walk as Jesus did...

Only the flesh is destroyed in this age, not man's spirit that goes on to the next age and receives new flesh that will never be used to deceive him again. It's the flesh that caused man to sin during this age. It was made by God to love this world because it is of this world, not of our invisible created existence as Christ. The flesh and this world we see are what deceived man all these years since man began to walk this earth. We are created as God's thoughts spoken into invisible wavelengths of energy that have to be processed in order to give us a defined world to experience life in.

 

[Vox]

Question for those who believe you can lose your salvation:

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

If God is not counting people's sins against them then when does God count their sins against them so that they would lose salvation?

I think the reason God doesn't count our sins against us is because He counts our sins against Jesus.

Just a thought...

we can not lose our REDEMPTION but we most certainly can lose our SALVATION

Redemption is UNIVERSAL.

Salvation is PERSONAL.

 

[Chuckt]

Question for those who believe you can lose your salvation:

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

If God is not counting people's sins against them then when does God count their sins against them so that they would lose salvation?

I think the reason God doesn't count our sins against us is because He counts our sins against Jesus.

Just a thought...

we can not lose our REDEMPTION but we most certainly can lose our SALVATION

Redemption is UNIVERSAL.

Salvation is PERSONAL.

In the Old Covenant (Old Testament), they gave sacrifices every year and if it took away sins permanently, there would have been no more conscience of sins:

Hebrews 10:1 ¶ For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins to sacrifice again.

But Jesus' sacrifice is once and for all:

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Jesus offered the sacrifice for sins once and for all and:

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus' sacrifice perfected us that are sanctified.

Therefore I conclude we cannot lose our salvation.

 

[Chuckt]

If we can lose our salvation, did Jesus make us perfect as Hebrews 10:1 says? If we were ever saved then we’re perfect.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Question for those who believe you can lose your salvation:

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

If God is not counting people's sins against them then when does God count their sins against them so that they would lose salvation?

I think the reason God doesn't count our sins against us is because He counts our sins against Jesus.

Just a thought...

If G-d didn't hold our sins against us there would be no need for commandments. Would point out too, that the belief you can't loose your salvation is hugely dependent upon given denominations believing that. They don't all agree. The various Christian denominations differ significantly on key elements of faith. So just because one may, doesn't mean all of Christianity does. Consequently, it's something everyone should consider very very carefully before possibly risking your soul ignoring G-d's Law. Your denomination may be wrong, it may be right, it may be partially wrong or right. But common sense suggests we can be negatively judged as per there being over 600 commandments.

Why do people insist on putting themselves under the rules and regulations that were for a specific group for a specific reason for a specific time?
Are you Gentile? Then you have 2.
Love God.
Love each other.

If God wanted us under law instead of grace Adam would have been given the law. And the Gentiles would have been given the law........
God didn't hold Adam's and Eve's sins against them. He immediately covered them with animal skins and mercy.

If you accept the gift of salvation under Christ, where do you believe your responsibility begins? Do you think that what Christ did only includes the sin you committed from the age of accountability up to the day you became saved, and then He passes the baton to you, or was His sacrifice complete?
What was it that He couldn't accomplish that you can? Or was His work finished once and for all. That would mean that He paid for the sin you committed in 1989, and in 2017.

Our attempts to rid ourselves of sin is like rags compared to what Jesus did. But our attempts to live for Christ are priceless to our Father. Righteous thinking will produce righteous living. If you are weak in an area that is the area Christ is strongest. And God will continue a work in us (which means we are under constant construction) until the Day of the Lord. But it is His work not ours.

For God to judge sins that are covered under the blood of Christ, He'd have to remember them. He says He does not remember those sins. Is He a liar?

Old Testament:

Isaiah 43:25 “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.

New Testament:

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And their sins will I remember no more.

I want to know how, if He has no memory of the sins Christ paid for, how is going to judge those sins? Do you plan on reminding Him?
Your sins either exist or they don't. They are either as far away as the east is from the west or their not. Which is it?

Bema Judgement - for those who accept the gift of salvation offered by Christ. Rewards, crowns, no condemnation.
White Throne Judgement - Satan, demons, humans who reject Christ's gift and instead will give testimony regarding their sins.

What kind of a God would punish 2 people for one sin? Why would God punish someone that had never sinned and then punish the sinner too? There is no sense in that. In fact that would be cruel which is why God promises not to do it.

 

[The Professor]

Question for those who believe you can lose your salvation:

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

If God is not counting people's sins against them then when does God count their sins against them so that they would lose salvation?

I think the reason God doesn't count our sins against us is because He counts our sins against Jesus.

Just a thought...

we can not lose our REDEMPTION but we most certainly can lose our SALVATION

Redemption is UNIVERSAL.

Salvation is PERSONAL.

In the Old Covenant (Old Testament), they gave sacrifices every year and if it took away sins permanently, there would have been no more conscience of sins:

Hebrews 10:1 ¶ For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins to sacrifice again.

But Jesus' sacrifice is once and for all:

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Jesus offered the sacrifice for sins once and for all and:

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus' sacrifice perfected us that are sanctified.

Therefore I conclude we cannot lose our salvation.

I believe that the verses you quote proves the opposite when taken in proper context. Here are the verses from Hebrews 10: 12-18; 26-31 (KJV, emphasis my own):

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin....….For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God”

And also from 2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV):

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

And finally, the following verses already provided by Avatar 4321 (see permalink 5, above):

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame” Hebrews 6:4-6).

 

[Chuckt]

we can not lose our REDEMPTION but we most certainly can lose our SALVATION

Redemption is UNIVERSAL.

Salvation is PERSONAL.

In the Old Covenant (Old Testament), they gave sacrifices every year and if it took away sins permanently, there would have been no more conscience of sins:

Hebrews 10:1 ¶ For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins to sacrifice again.

But Jesus' sacrifice is once and for all:

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Jesus offered the sacrifice for sins once and for all and:

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus' sacrifice perfected us that are sanctified.

Therefore I conclude we cannot lose our salvation.

I believe that the verses you quote proves the opposite when taken in proper context. Here are the verses from Hebrews 10: 12-18; 26-31 (KJV, emphasis my own):

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin....….For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God”

And also from 2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV):

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

And finally, the following verses already provided by Avatar 4321 (see permalink 5, above):

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame” Hebrews 6:4-6).

The first three verses talk about "us":

Hebrews 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The next couple of verses talk about "them". It is talking about the Jewish or Hebrew believers who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift. It is not talking about us because if you study the Bible there are words "turn" and "return" because there are exortations to come back to God like the parable of the prodigal son who returned. John tells us in 1 John 1:8-9 that if any man sins that and if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And Hebrews 4:15 says "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. " so the Bible has opportunities for forgiveness, healing, restoration and the opportunity to turn back to God. These verses can't be saying that if we fall away then it is over. 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

We aren't part of this. There are five participles here:
for those who were once enlightened
have tasted of the heavenly gift
tasted the good word of God
and have fallen away (the word "if" here can mean "and" as in "and have fallen away")

If doesn't say,"if they shall fall away". The word "If" can mean "and" and I looked it up.

Hebrews 6:9 ¶ But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

As believers, we have gone on in the basic things. We know the truth in regards to Christ.

It is written to a group of Jewish believers that came to a knowledge of the truth. They tasted of the heavenly gift. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. They had fallen away. They tasted and had fallen away. It is impossible to renew them again to repentance.

They joined the ranks of those of Pontius Pilate and the High Priest before the and those before the crucifixion. If you've come into that much light and that much reality and then you fall away and go back to the Levitical system, you're numbered among those who crucified the son of God because you're saying He's not the son of God. What would there be to go back to?

We've moved onto the truth.

-My notes from Pastor Joe's MP3 online.

There are four classes if conditional clauses:

1. 1st class conditional clause is the condition of fact. May be translated "since"
2. 2nd class conditional clause is a condition contrary to fact.
3. 3rd class conditional clause is a condition of high probability
4. 4th class conditional clause is a condition of low probability

The Greek ei with the indicative denotes actual rather than potential condition, and in some versions is translated "since," e.g., Col 3:1, NIV.

 

[Chuckt]

I believe that the verses you quote proves the opposite when taken in proper context. Here are the verses from Hebrews 10: 12-18; 26-31 (KJV, emphasis my own):

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin....….For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God”

A person I was witnessing to was teaching sinless perfection and only Jesus could take the scroll in heaven because only Jesus was worthy. They don't care that 1 JN 1:8-9 says if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves. I witness to some far off people who teach that you can be perfect:

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect (g5046 τέλειος teleios), even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect (g5046 τέλειος teleios).

I was trying to tell them that "perfect" can mean "mature" but only half the Bibles I survey hold to that opinion:

Philippians 3:15 NKJV Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.

New King James Version, © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. All rights reserved. Used by permission.

They don't care that it was by the offering of Jesus' death on the cross that caused us to be perfected:

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

They teach that if you sin wilfully then you can't be saved and they use this verse:
Hebrews 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Who hasn't sinned once since they were saved? Don't answer that..

They can't understand that we all sin and all sin is willful.

Jesus said,"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."-John 5:24

It doesn't say "might have" or "could have" but "hath" everlasting life.

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”-I John 3:9

“Note: In 1 John 3:4, 8, 9, the KJV wrongly has ‘commit’ (an impossible meaning in v. ; the RV rightly has ‘doeth,’ i.e., of a continuous habit, equivalent to prasso, ‘to practice.’ The committal of an act is not in view in that passage.”
P.113, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words

“First John 3:9 is in the present continuous tense and should be translated ‘Whoever is born of God does not continually practice sin.”-Dr. Norman Geisler, p.539 “When Critics Ask”

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”-1 John 1:8

Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at something that does not matter.

Can a believer lose his salvation? I believe this is keeping with my view on Hebrews 6:4 and how it is talking about Hebrew believers and the writer uses the pronoun “them” instead of “us”. I believe this verse is talking about an apostate or someone who heard but never really believed and those who hear the gospel and don’t believe seem to disintegrate (Romans 1:21-25). In your opinion, is this verse about a believer who walked away or turned away from God?

Hebrews 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge (g1922 ἐπίγνωσις epignōsis) of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

This is not a divine knowledge and the example is in its definition of “knowledge”:

Greek Lexicon :: G1922 (KJV)
1) precise and correct knowledge

a) used in the NT of the knowledge of things ethical and divine

A definition for divine knowledge may be Philippians 3

Philippians 3:10 That I may know (g1097 γινώσκω ginōsk&#333 him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Greek Lexicon :: G1097 (KJV)

1) to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel

a) to become known

I believe part of the context of Hebrews 10:26 is found in verses 27 and 28 that they are “adversaries” (v.27) and they “despised Moses law” and we might look to examples of people who despised Moses law and who died with two or three witnesses.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The three parts of Hebrews 10:29 are (1) “hath trodden under foot the Son of God”, (2) “hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing” and (3) “hath done despite (to insult or treat shamefully) unto the Spirit of grace”. Insulting God sounds like the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit where they are no longer interested in the things of God.

Can these three things be in contrast to some of the previous verses in the chapter?

“…wherewith he was sanctified…” sounds like they cleansed themselves externally to me and didn’t cleanse themselves internally. We need to have our hearts sprinkled internally and have our bodies washed internally:

Greek Lexicon :: G37 (KJV)

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised
Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Is Hebrews 10:29 contrasted with Hebrews 10:22, 23 and 24?

My questions are, why aren't they cleansed and why does God remember their sin?

Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

My final question is, why aren't they perfected? Did they not believe?

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

I'm not dating Jesus but if someone broke up with me and I said I'm going to go out and sin wilfully (Heb. 10:26) then am I really saying the same thing that I'm sanctified unto?

1 John 1:9 If we confess (g3670 ὁμολογέω homologe&#333 our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

homologeō
1) to say the same thing as another, i.e. to agree with, assent
2) to concede
a) not to refuse, to promise


Jesus said,"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."-John 5:24

It doesn't say "might have" or "could have" but "hath" everlasting life.

 

[Chuckt]

we can not lose our REDEMPTION but we most certainly can lose our SALVATION

Redemption is UNIVERSAL.

Salvation is PERSONAL.

In the Old Covenant (Old Testament), they gave sacrifices every year and if it took away sins permanently, there would have been no more conscience of sins:

Hebrews 10:1 ¶ For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins to sacrifice again.

But Jesus' sacrifice is once and for all:

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Jesus offered the sacrifice for sins once and for all and:

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus' sacrifice perfected us that are sanctified.

Therefore I conclude we cannot lose our salvation.

I believe that the verses you quote proves the opposite when taken in proper context. Here are the verses from Hebrews 10: 12-18; 26-31 (KJV, emphasis my own):

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin....….For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God”

And also from 2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV):

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

And finally, the following verses already provided by Avatar 4321 (see permalink 5, above):

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame” Hebrews 6:4-6).

In the Old Covenant (Old Testament), they gave sacrifices every year and if it took away sins permanently, there would have been no more conscience of sins:

Hebrews 10:1 ¶ For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins to sacrifice again.

But Jesus' sacrifice is once and for all:

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Jesus offered the sacrifice for sins once and for all and:

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus' sacrifice perfected us that are sanctified.

Therefore I conclude we cannot lose our salvation.

I believe that the verses you quote proves the opposite when taken in proper context. Here are the verses from Hebrews 10: 12-18; 26-31 (KJV, emphasis my own):

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin....….For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God”

And also from 2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV):

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

And finally, the following verses already provided by Avatar 4321 (see permalink 5, above):

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame” Hebrews 6:4-6).

The first three verses talk about "us":

Hebrews 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The next couple of verses talk about "them". It is talking about the Jewish or Hebrew believers who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift. It is not talking about us because if you study the Bible there are words "turn" and "return" because there are exortations to come back to God like the parable of the prodigal son who returned. John tells us in 1 John 1:8-9 that if any man sins that and if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And Hebrews 4:15 says "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. " so the Bible has opportunities for forgiveness, healing, restoration and the opportunity to turn back to God. These verses can't be saying that if we fall away then it is over. 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

We aren't part of this. There are five participles here:
for those who were once enlightened
have tasted of the heavenly gift
tasted the good word of God
and have fallen away (the word "if" here can mean "and" as in "and have fallen away")

If doesn't say,"if they shall fall away". The word "If" can mean "and" and I looked it up.

Hebrews 6:9 ¶ But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

As believers, we have gone on in the basic things. We know the truth in regards to Christ.

It is written to a group of Jewish believers that came to a knowledge of the truth. They tasted of the heavenly gift. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. They had fallen away. They tasted and had fallen away. It is impossible to renew them again to repentance.

They joined the ranks of those of Pontius Pilate and the High Priest before the and those before the crucifixion. If you've come into that much light and that much reality and then you fall away and go back to the Levitical system, you're numbered among those who crucified the son of God because you're saying He's not the son of God. What would there be to go back to?

We've moved onto the truth.

-My notes from Pastor Joe's MP3 online.

There are four classes if conditional clauses:

1. 1st class conditional clause is the condition of fact. May be translated "since"
2. 2nd class conditional clause is a condition contrary to fact.
3. 3rd class conditional clause is a condition of high probability
4. 4th class conditional clause is a condition of low probability

The Greek ei with the indicative denotes actual rather than potential condition, and in some versions is translated "since," e.g., Col 3:1, NIV.

Those for whom this Epistle was written, whilst they were members of God's earthly people, had been brought under the power of the Gospel and, as a whole, had accepted the Christian faith, thought they were still in an elementary condition in regard to it and needed to be stirred to a full realization of its truths and of its superiority to the religion in which they had been brought up. There were many, however, who, though attracted to Christianity, had never definitely accepted Christ. They had been "enlightened" without having Christ as their Light: they had "tasted of the heavenly gift," without receiving it. They had been having a share in the power of the Holy Spirit, without being indwelt by Him as believers. They had "tasted of the good Word of God," without actually feeding on the Bread of Life. They had tasted of the powers of the coming world, without entering into the real anticipation of them.-NOTES ON THE EPISTLES TO THE HEBREWS BY W.E. VINE, PREFACE, P.7

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Is this the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?


". . . they had "tasted of the heavenly gift," without receiving it."

Really? So when Jesus tasted death for every man, did He really not die??? Hmmm??? & Huh? Everything in this passage suggests to me that they were saved people. Enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age.

Pastor Charles wrote:

________________________________________
". . . they had "tasted of the heavenly gift," without receiving it."

Really? So when Jesus tasted death for every man, did He really not die??? Hmmm??? & Huh? Everything in this passage suggests to me that they were saved people. Enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age.

The heavenly gift of what? I can't specify what it is. Gift of the Holy Spirit or Gift of Righteousness? In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit came alongside of believers. They saw the miracles and told them not to preach in His name. They tasted the heavenly gift.
Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw [it], he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Hebrews 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Hebrews 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned.

They weren't Christians because the writer of Hebrews (Paul) is making a comparison of them and true Christians. Jesus said if you continue in my word you are my disciples indeed.

Heb. 6:7-8 were the reasoning W.E. Vine gave but I can look it back up tonight for the exact reasoning. It doesn't say they sometimes brought forth herbs like some people in the church do.

Chuck:
If it was the gift of righteousness or the Holy Spirit, then in reality it is the gift of salvation and that's how I understand it.

This came from Vine's and you will still have to click on "view entry". Basically he says tasting is different from receiving it. Until I look at my books at home, this is the best I can do right now. At least you have some idea as to where W.E. Vine is coming from.

Greek Lexicon :: G1089 (KJV)

Taste:
"to make to taste," is used in the Middle Voice, signifying "to taste"
(a) naturally, Mat 27:34; Luk 14:24; Jhn 2:9; Col 2:21;
(b) metaphorically, of Christ's "tasting" death, implying His personal experience in voluntarily undergoing death, Hbr 2:9; of believers (negatively) as to "tasting" of death, Mat 16:28; Mar 9:1; Luk 9:27; Jhn 8:52; of "tasting" the heavenly gift (different from receiving it), Hbr 6:4; "the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come," Hbr 6:5; "that the Lord is gracious," 1Pe 2:3.
See EAT.
I'm not saying that this verse has a prophetic relation to the Hebrews verse and I'm not saying this has a bearing on the definition of the Hebrews verse but the Vine's definition of "tasted" meaning "not receiving" wouldn't set a precedent because we already have a case for not receiving the totality of our total senses.

Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Same word in these verses below.
How is it that Jesus only rubbed shoulders with death but didn't actually die?

Peter is certainly talking to believers.

1 Peter 2:2-5
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus merely taste death as you suggest in Hebrews, or did He really die? Likewise those who have tasted the heavenly gift have experienced it.

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

(1) W.E. Vine teaches that Jesus tasted death:

“The clause ‘that by the grace of God He should taste death for all men’ is purposely put last in verse 9 because it is immediately connected with and introduces what follows, which explains the object for which Christ tasted death. The tasting is to be distinguished from the idea of having a taste of death; it describes what is slow and painful.”-P26, The Epistles to the Hebrews by W.E. Vine.

(2) W.E. Vine makes a distinction between tasting and being indwelt by Him through faith in Christ:

“VERSE 4. For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,-These facts would be true in regard to all those Hebrews who had been influenced by the testimony and power of the gospel, but had not done more than make a profession of faith, and were inclined to return to Judaism, the power of which remained very strong among the people. There is nothing in the details in this and verse 5 but what could take place in the experience of one who was drawn to Christianity without being born again and becoming possessed of eternal life. To be enlightened comes short of conversion. To taste of the heavely gift is far short of receiving it in its fullness. To be a partaker of the Holy Spirit is not becoming indwelt by Him through faith in Christ.”-p. 56, Ibid

Vine doesn’t elaborate or explain it more. Words get their meaning from the context but I didn’t think that you might find Hebrews 6:7-8 a good enough explanation for not receiving the fullness of the Spirit.

I decided to look at Kenneth Wuest’s (one of the NASB translators) explanation:

“They had been made partakers of the Holy Ghost. We must be careful to note that the Greek word translated ‘partakers’ does not mean ‘possessors,’ in the sense that these Hebrews possessed the Holy Spirit as an indwelling person who had come to take up His permanent abode in their hearts. The word is a compound of the Greek verb ‘to have or hold’ (echo), and a preposition meaning ‘with’ (meta), thus ‘to hold with.’ It is used in Luke 5:7 where it is translated ‘partners,’ signifying one who co-operates with another in a common task or undertaking. It is used in Hebrews 1:9 where the angels are ‘fellows’ of our Lord, partners or associates with Him in the work of salvation. It is used in Hebrews 3:1 where the recipients of this letter are called participators in the heavenly calling. That is, they participated together in the heavenly calling. These Hebrews had left the earthly calling of the nation Israel, and had identified themselves with the Church which has a heavenly calling. It is used in Hebrews 3:14, where it speaks of those who participate together in the Lord Jesus.
“The word (metochos) was so used in secular Greek. Moulton and Milligan give examples of its usage in the following phrases: ‘We, Dionysius son of Socrates and the associate collectors;’ ‘Pikos son of Pamonthes and his colleagues,’ ‘the joint-owner of a holding,’ ‘I am unable to take part in the cultivation,’ ‘Some do so because they are partners in their misdeeds.’ Thus the word signifies one who participates with another in a common activity or possession. It is so used here. These Hebrews became participators in the Holy Spirit insofar as an unsaved person can do so, namely, in the sense that they willingly co-operated with Him in receiving His pre-salvation ministry, that of leading them on step by step toward the act of faith. He had led them into the act of repentance. The next step would be that of faith. Here they were in danger of turning their backs upon the Spirit and returning to the sacrifices. Peter in his first epistle (1:2) in the words,’through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience,’ speaks of this work of the Holy Spirit on the unsaved, setting them apart from unbelief to faith. This word in its context does not at all imply that these Hebrews had been born of the Spirit, sealed with the Spirit, indwelt by the Spirit, anointed with the Spirit, baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, or filled with the Spirit. This work of the Holy Spirit in leading them on towards faith was a once-for-all work, so thoroughly done that it needed never to be repeated. However, there was nothing permanent of itself in this work, for the work was only a means to an end. This is shown by the aorist participle used, referring to the mere fact, not a perfect, speaking of a finished act having present results. The fact that the writer did not use the perfect tense here, which is a specialized tense, but rather the aorist, which is the maid of all work, points to the incompleteness of the work of the Spirit in the case of these Hebrews. So far as the work had been done, it was perfect, thorough. But it would not be complete until the Hebrews accepted the proffered faith from the Spirit. The incompleteness of the work would be due, therefore, not to the Spirit, but to their unwillingness to go on as a partner or cooperator with the Spirit.”-p.114-116, Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, Volume II by Kenneth Wuest, one of the NASB Translators

And then Wuest adds in his commentary on Hebrews 6:9-12 “…and repeatedly exhorts to go on to faith in the New Testament sacrifice, Messiah. The fact that he urges them on to faith, shows that they merely made a profession and were not saved. After issuing this solemn warning in 5:11-6:8, he addresses the saved among his readers and uses them as an example to urge the unsaved on to the act of faith.”-p, 119, Ibid

 

[theword]

In the Old Covenant (Old Testament), they gave sacrifices every year and if it took away sins permanently, there would have been no more conscience of sins:

Hebrews 10:1 ¶ For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins to sacrifice again.

But Jesus' sacrifice is once and for all:

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Jesus offered the sacrifice for sins once and for all and:

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus' sacrifice perfected us that are sanctified.

Therefore I conclude we cannot lose our salvation.

I believe that the verses you quote proves the opposite when taken in proper context. Here are the verses from Hebrews 10: 12-18; 26-31 (KJV, emphasis my own):

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin....….For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God”

And also from 2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV):

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

And finally, the following verses already provided by Avatar 4321 (see permalink 5, above):

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame” Hebrews 6:4-6).

Those for whom this Epistle was written, whilst they were members of God's earthly people, had been brought under the power of the Gospel and, as a whole, had accepted the Christian faith, thought they were still in an elementary condition in regard to it and needed to be stirred to a full realization of its truths and of its superiority to the religion in which they had been brought up. There were many, however, who, though attracted to Christianity, had never definitely accepted Christ. They had been "enlightened" without having Christ as their Light: they had "tasted of the heavenly gift," without receiving it. They had been having a share in the power of the Holy Spirit, without being indwelt by Him as believers. They had "tasted of the good Word of God," without actually feeding on the Bread of Life. They had tasted of the powers of the coming world, without entering into the real anticipation of them.-NOTES ON THE EPISTLES TO THE HEBREWS BY W.E. VINE, PREFACE, P.7

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Is this the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?


". . . they had "tasted of the heavenly gift," without receiving it."



Pastor Charles wrote:

________________________________________
". . . they had "tasted of the heavenly gift," without receiving it."

Really? So when Jesus tasted death for every man, did He really not die??? Hmmm??? & Huh? Everything in this passage suggests to me that they were saved people. Enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age.

The heavenly gift of what? I can't specify what it is. Gift of the Holy Spirit or Gift of Righteousness? In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit came alongside of believers. They saw the miracles and told them not to preach in His name. They tasted the heavenly gift.
Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw [it], he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Hebrews 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Hebrews 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned.

They weren't Christians because the writer of Hebrews (Paul) is making a comparison of them and true Christians. Jesus said if you continue in my word you are my disciples indeed.

Heb. 6:7-8 were the reasoning W.E. Vine gave but I can look it back up tonight for the exact reasoning. It doesn't say they sometimes brought forth herbs like some people in the church do.

Chuck:
If it was the gift of righteousness or the Holy Spirit, then in reality it is the gift of salvation and that's how I understand it.

This came from Vine's and you will still have to click on "view entry". Basically he says tasting is different from receiving it. Until I look at my books at home, this is the best I can do right now. At least you have some idea as to where W.E. Vine is coming from.

Greek Lexicon :: G1089 (KJV)

Taste:
"to make to taste," is used in the Middle Voice, signifying "to taste"
(a) naturally, Mat 27:34; Luk 14:24; Jhn 2:9; Col 2:21;
(b) metaphorically, of Christ's "tasting" death, implying His personal experience in voluntarily undergoing death, Hbr 2:9; of believers (negatively) as to "tasting" of death, Mat 16:28; Mar 9:1; Luk 9:27; Jhn 8:52; of "tasting" the heavenly gift (different from receiving it), Hbr 6:4; "the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come," Hbr 6:5; "that the Lord is gracious," 1Pe 2:3.
See EAT.
I'm not saying that this verse has a prophetic relation to the Hebrews verse and I'm not saying this has a bearing on the definition of the Hebrews verse but the Vine's definition of "tasted" meaning "not receiving" wouldn't set a precedent because we already have a case for not receiving the totality of our total senses.

Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Same word in these verses below.
How is it that Jesus only rubbed shoulders with death but didn't actually die?

Peter is certainly talking to believers.

1 Peter 2:2-5
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Did Jesus merely taste death as you suggest in Hebrews, or did He really die? Likewise those who have tasted the heavenly gift have experienced it.

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

(1) W.E. Vine teaches that Jesus tasted death:

“The clause ‘that by the grace of God He should taste death for all men’ is purposely put last in verse 9 because it is immediately connected with and introduces what follows, which explains the object for which Christ tasted death. The tasting is to be distinguished from the idea of having a taste of death; it describes what is slow and painful.”-P26, The Epistles to the Hebrews by W.E. Vine.

(2) W.E. Vine makes a distinction between tasting and being indwelt by Him through faith in Christ:

“VERSE 4. For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,-These facts would be true in regard to all those Hebrews who had been influenced by the testimony and power of the gospel, but had not done more than make a profession of faith, and were inclined to return to Judaism, the power of which remained very strong among the people. There is nothing in the details in this and verse 5 but what could take place in the experience of one who was drawn to Christianity without being born again and becoming possessed of eternal life. To be enlightened comes short of conversion. To taste of the heavely gift is far short of receiving it in its fullness. To be a partaker of the Holy Spirit is not becoming indwelt by Him through faith in Christ.”-p. 56, Ibid

Vine doesn’t elaborate or explain it more. Words get their meaning from the context but I didn’t think that you might find Hebrews 6:7-8 a good enough explanation for not receiving the fullness of the Spirit.

I decided to look at Kenneth Wuest’s (one of the NASB translators) explanation:

“They had been made partakers of the Holy Ghost. We must be careful to note that the Greek word translated ‘partakers’ does not mean ‘possessors,’ in the sense that these Hebrews possessed the Holy Spirit as an indwelling person who had come to take up His permanent abode in their hearts. The word is a compound of the Greek verb ‘to have or hold’ (echo), and a preposition meaning ‘with’ (meta), thus ‘to hold with.’ It is used in Luke 5:7 where it is translated ‘partners,’ signifying one who co-operates with another in a common task or undertaking. It is used in Hebrews 1:9 where the angels are ‘fellows’ of our Lord, partners or associates with Him in the work of salvation. It is used in Hebrews 3:1 where the recipients of this letter are called participators in the heavenly calling. That is, they participated together in the heavenly calling. These Hebrews had left the earthly calling of the nation Israel, and had identified themselves with the Church which has a heavenly calling. It is used in Hebrews 3:14, where it speaks of those who participate together in the Lord Jesus.
“The word (metochos) was so used in secular Greek. Moulton and Milligan give examples of its usage in the following phrases: ‘We, Dionysius son of Socrates and the associate collectors;’ ‘Pikos son of Pamonthes and his colleagues,’ ‘the joint-owner of a holding,’ ‘I am unable to take part in the cultivation,’ ‘Some do so because they are partners in their misdeeds.’ Thus the word signifies one who participates with another in a common activity or possession. It is so used here. These Hebrews became participators in the Holy Spirit insofar as an unsaved person can do so, namely, in the sense that they willingly co-operated with Him in receiving His pre-salvation ministry, that of leading them on step by step toward the act of faith. He had led them into the act of repentance. The next step would be that of faith. Here they were in danger of turning their backs upon the Spirit and returning to the sacrifices. Peter in his first epistle (1:2) in the words,’through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience,’ speaks of this work of the Holy Spirit on the unsaved, setting them apart from unbelief to faith. This word in its context does not at all imply that these Hebrews had been born of the Spirit, sealed with the Spirit, indwelt by the Spirit, anointed with the Spirit, baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, or filled with the Spirit. This work of the Holy Spirit in leading them on towards faith was a once-for-all work, so thoroughly done that it needed never to be repeated. However, there was nothing permanent of itself in this work, for the work was only a means to an end. This is shown by the aorist participle used, referring to the mere fact, not a perfect, speaking of a finished act having present results. The fact that the writer did not use the perfect tense here, which is a specialized tense, but rather the aorist, which is the maid of all work, points to the incompleteness of the work of the Spirit in the case of these Hebrews. So far as the work had been done, it was perfect, thorough. But it would not be complete until the Hebrews accepted the proffered faith from the Spirit. The incompleteness of the work would be due, therefore, not to the Spirit, but to their unwillingness to go on as a partner or cooperator with the Spirit.”-p.114-116, Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, Volume II by Kenneth Wuest, one of the NASB Translators

And then Wuest adds in his commentary on Hebrews 6:9-12 “…and repeatedly exhorts to go on to faith in the New Testament sacrifice, Messiah. The fact that he urges them on to faith, shows that they merely made a profession and were not saved. After issuing this solemn warning in 5:11-6:8, he addresses the saved among his readers and uses them as an example to urge the unsaved on to the act of faith.”-p, 119, Ibid

Since we were all created in Heaven, we don't have to make a decision to go there. The world that we see is only an illusion ( visions and dreams ). God blinded His people from understanding that were created as invisible energy with the Old Covenant "veil" which He removes once your flesh perishes in this age. Then you'll awaken in your two bodies ( male and female ) and live forever without knowing that you lived in the first age. We will all understand that our flesh and our earthly experiences are only illusions that come from the thoughts of our Creator.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

One can be prevented from gaining the perfect body. If all it took was Jesus Sacrifice to be saved and no action on the individuals part, why would there be a Judgement day?

Why would Jesus instruct us to be baptized and to ask for forgiveness? Why would he instruct us to repent after sinning?

If one chooses to sin and practice that sin or chooses to serve Satan, one can not enter Heaven at Judgement day such will be left dead in their graves to be eternally dead.