Question: why do liberals always say Bush started TWO unwarranted wars?

[Discombobulated]

The imperative was Bush needed to invade before the UN proved there were no WMDs

I don't mind so much that they lied, I expect politicians to do that. What I mind is that they stupidly wasted a great historic opportunity to bolster our position as a world leader with real moral and legal authority. That we could shape the course of events in ways that others would want to follow and emulate. Instead we are reviled and despised by our so called allies nearly as much as our enemies. We are an empire in decline.

You stupid ignorant fucking hack.

People most often resort to these kind of personal remarks when their alleged arguments lack merit.

 

[Sallow]

Bush recognized what would happen if we pulled out too early. He called for a surge and it worked. By 2011, Iraq was pacified, that is until Obama ordered a complete withdrawal of US troops from the country. Everything happening now was forewarned against by President Bush in 2007.

President Bush Addresses CENTCOM Coalition Conference

Iraq was never "pacified".

Some violence went down because the US began bribing the Sunnis.

But it never abated.

Then why were you guys claiming credit for it then? "Al Qaeda is on the run"? I swear, it's like you guys have Alzheimer's or something.

Claiming credit?

What are you daft?

No one is claiming credit for Iraq.

Al Qaeda was NEVER in Iraq.

The Al Qaeda that's on the run? That's the one that use to be run by Osama Bin Laden.

Yeah..they are on the run. They are mostly destroyed.

There are new Al Qaeda like entities cropping up ALL OVER THE PLACE, as a direct result of what Bush did.

They aren't your father's Al Qaeda either. In fact, some of the old Al Qaeda guard that are still around want nothing to do with them.

The Iraq invasion was an unbelievable error that has unleashed forces well beyond what anyone can do to put them back in a bottle.

Not understanding exactly what Iraq was, was and still is a major problem.

You could kind of compare it to either Yugoslavia or Turkey. But Hussien was much more Tito and much less Ataturk.

And when he was killed, simmering hatreds were let loose in a very major way.

There is no easy way to squash that..and it's really doubtful we should even try.

Iraq is broken.

And that's pretty much it. It's not going to be put back together again.

 

[TheJedi]

Absolute fucking horseshit. There was no immediate imperative to invade Iraq, no WMDs, no link to 911, no threat to our security, nothing. It was a completely unnecessary distraction from our primary mission in Afghanistan.

I do not even know why I am communicating with such a fuckhack like you. I am really not. I am just throwing this in your fucking face, cause it will piss your ignorant ass off.

Let us see what the UN found, shall we, and why the UN security council voted 15-0 for the removal of Hussein. A tyrant that you and your pathetic sorts seem to miss and actually think was a "good guy."


Saddam Hussein's Weapons Of Mass Destruction | Gunning For Saddam | FRONTLINE | PBS

In its 1999 final report to the U.N. Security Council, UNSCOM noted that Iraq's biological warfare program was "among the most secretive of its programs of weapons of mass destruction." It said that Iraq "took active steps" to conceal the program, including "inadequate disclosures, unilateral destruction, and concealment activities." Therefore, the Commission concluded, "it has not been possible to verify" Iraq's statements about the extent and nature of its biological weapons program.

A 58 page annex to the final report describes what the Commission was able to learn about the BW program, despite Iraq's concealment activities, and documents discrepancies between what Iraq claimed to have developed, or destroyed, and the physical evidence. Some of the findings include:

Extensive BW program: Iraq had an extensive BW program from 1973 until at least 1991. In mid-1995, Iraq admitted that it had weaponized BW agents, but claimed that the entire BW program had been in "obliterated" in 1991 and that all BW weapons had been destroyed and all bulk BW agents had been deactivated. The Commission found, however, that the evidence produced in support of this claim was not credible, and that Iraq "retained suitable growth media, BW facilities, production equipment, teams of expert personnel, and the essential technical knowledge" after 1991.

Bulk production: In July, 1995, Iraq acknowledged that between 1988 and 1991, it had produced two BW agents in bulk: botulinum toxin and Bacillus anthracis spores (anthrax). Iraq reported 19,180 liters of botulinum toxin (10-20 fold concentrated) and 8445 liters of Bacillus anthracis spores (10 fold concentrated).

UNSCOM found, however, that "bulk warfare agent production appears to be considerably understated," given the resources available to Iraq's BW program, including growth media and fermenter capacity. The Commission said that the production rate of Botulinum toxin could be as much as double the stated amount, and 3 times greater than that stated for Bacillus anthracis spores.

Iraq claimed that it unilaterally destroyed more than 7500 liters of the Botulinum toxin and 3412 liters of Bacillus anthracis spores in 1991; UNSCOM noted that there was not evidence to support quantities claimed to be destroyed. The report concludes "the Commission has no confidence that all bulk agents have been destroyed... and that a BW capability does not exist in Iraq."

Iraq also claims to have produced lesser quantities of clostridium perfringens spores, ricin, and wheat cover smut.

BW Warheads: Iraq claimed to have produced 25 Al-Hussein missile warheads and filled them with BW agents. The Commission found that there was no credible evidence to show that only 25 missiles were produced and filled. Iraq declared that the 25 missiles were unilaterally destroyed; the Commission found enough physical evidence to account for the declared quantities of BW warheads, but the location of the remnants were inconsistent with Iraq's story.

BW bombs: Iraq declared that 200 R-400 aerial bombs were manufactured for BW purposes, but acknowledged that the numbers of bombs filled with particular agents (100 with botulinum toxin, 50 with bacillus anthracis spores, and 7 with aflatoxin) were "guesses." UNSCOM did find evidence of the destruction of some BW bombs at the site declared by Iraq, but found that the remnants account for less than one third of the bombs Iraq claims to have destroyed. In addition, UNSCOM found evidence of R-400A bombs carrying BW at an airfield where no BW weapons were declared.

Aircraft drop tanks: Iraq claimed that it produced 4 aircraft drop tanks to disseminate BW agents, and was developing a pilotless aircraft that could carry the tanks, holding either BW or chemical weapons, and release the toxins at a preset time. UNSCOM found that there was no evidence corroborate that only 4 were produced, and noted that interviews indicated that 12 were planned. Remnants of only three destroyed tanks were recovered. UNSCOM also rejected the evidence offered by Iraq--a letter thanking the project workers--that the pilotless aircraft project was shut down.

Aerosol Generators: Iraq developed aerosol generators for the dispersal of BW agents by modifying helicopter-borne commercial chemical insecticide disseminators. Although Iraq claimed the devices were ineffective, UNSCOM received documentation that they were successfully field tested. Interview evidence suggests that there were 12 devices produced; none were destroyed by UNSCOM.

Remaining Bacterial Growth Media: UNSCOM determined that there remained substantial bacterial growth media imported into Iraq which remains unaccounted for: 460 kg. of casien; 80 kg. of thioglocollate broth; 520 kg. of yeast extract; and 1100 kg of peptone. The report says that "the amounts that are 'missing' are significant, and would be sufficient to produce quantities of agent comparable to that already declared by Iraq."


IRAQ'S CHEMICAL WEAPONS (CW) PROGRAM

UNSCOM was more successful in its pursuit of Iraq's CW program largely because Iraq was more cooperative with its disclosures. The final report notes that a "significant number" of chemical weapons, their components, and related equipment were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision between 1991 and 1997. In addition, the report found:

Extensive CW program: Iraq acknowledged that it carried out a large scale CW program between 1982 and 1990. It claims that more than 50% of its chemical weapons stocks were consumed during the 1980s, and that the majority of its production facilities were destroyed by aerial bombing during the Gulf War.

Bulk CW agents: Iraq said that it produced 3,859 tons of CW agents during the entire implementation of its CW program, and that 3,315 tons of these agents were weaponized. Agents produced in large quantities included mustard, tabun, and sarin.

According to Iraq, 80% of the weaponized CW agents were consumed between 1982 and 1988. In addition, they claim to have unilaterally discarded 130 tons of non-weaponized CW agents during the 1980s. UNSCOM found that these numbers could not be verified.

After the Gulf War, Iraq claimed that it had 412.5 tons of CW agents remaining. Four hundred eleven tons were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision; 1.5 tons of the CW agent VX remain unaccounted for.

Special Munitions: Iraq claimed that between 1982 and 1988, 100,000 munitions filled with CW agents were consumed or disposed of. UNSCOM found that this number could not be verified.

After the Gulf war, Iraq declared that there remained over 56,000 special munitions which could carry either CW or BW agents (22,000 filled, 34,000 unfilled). These munitions are all accounted for. They were either destroyed or converted for conventional weapons purposes.

Iraq claimed that there were 42,000 special munitions destroyed in the Gulf War. UNSCOM was unable to verify that number, and found that the destruction of 2,000 unfilled munitions remains uncertain, and 550 filled munitions remain unaccounted for.

Iraq claimed that it unilaterally destroyed 29,000 special munitions; UNSCOM found that of these, 100 filled munitions remain unaccounted for.


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Not that I give a shit that a pathetic hack like you will read all of that, or the bold faced parts I highlighted.

The fact is this world and country is controlled by pathetic pigs like you and politicians that placate your ignorant asses for your votes.

The sad part is how you all think you just know it all while you ignore actual evidence. Like I said, this entire thread shows the ignorance of you left wing hacks, your hypocrisy and your pathetic double talk.

The fact that all of you keep shifting your arguments in order to make a point proves it. You all still think Bush started two wars and you still have no idea what I am referring to. Which means you are nothing but an ignorant hopeless hack.

So in other words: no nuclear program, no yellow cake, no weapons that could present a credible threat. No weapons with delivery or dispersal systems.....no WMDs.

Don't forget Scooter Libby outed a CIA NOC, who was actively serving at the time putting her life in grave danger all as punishment for her husband telling the media he personally investigated the yellowcake claims and there was no proof whatsoever that it was being bought up by Saddam.

 

[Discombobulated]

Actually, he started 2 UNFUNDED wars and then cut taxes TWICE after that. One of those wars was a a case of the Bush admin intentionally lying and misleading the public and Congress about WMDs in Iraq. No one screamed impeachment then. The irony.

Here you go, you fucking puppet.


Saddam Hussein's Weapons Of Mass Destruction | Gunning For Saddam | FRONTLINE | PBS

In its 1999 final report to the U.N. Security Council, UNSCOM noted that Iraq's biological warfare program was "among the most secretive of its programs of weapons of mass destruction." It said that Iraq "took active steps" to conceal the program, including "inadequate disclosures, unilateral destruction, and concealment activities." Therefore, the Commission concluded, "it has not been possible to verify" Iraq's statements about the extent and nature of its biological weapons program.

A 58 page annex to the final report describes what the Commission was able to learn about the BW program, despite Iraq's concealment activities, and documents discrepancies between what Iraq claimed to have developed, or destroyed, and the physical evidence. Some of the findings include:

Extensive BW program: Iraq had an extensive BW program from 1973 until at least 1991. In mid-1995, Iraq admitted that it had weaponized BW agents, but claimed that the entire BW program had been in "obliterated" in 1991 and that all BW weapons had been destroyed and all bulk BW agents had been deactivated. The Commission found, however, that the evidence produced in support of this claim was not credible, and that Iraq "retained suitable growth media, BW facilities, production equipment, teams of expert personnel, and the essential technical knowledge" after 1991.

Bulk production: In July, 1995, Iraq acknowledged that between 1988 and 1991, it had produced two BW agents in bulk: botulinum toxin and Bacillus anthracis spores (anthrax). Iraq reported 19,180 liters of botulinum toxin (10-20 fold concentrated) and 8445 liters of Bacillus anthracis spores (10 fold concentrated).

UNSCOM found, however, that "bulk warfare agent production appears to be considerably understated," given the resources available to Iraq's BW program, including growth media and fermenter capacity. The Commission said that the production rate of Botulinum toxin could be as much as double the stated amount, and 3 times greater than that stated for Bacillus anthracis spores.

Iraq claimed that it unilaterally destroyed more than 7500 liters of the Botulinum toxin and 3412 liters of Bacillus anthracis spores in 1991; UNSCOM noted that there was not evidence to support quantities claimed to be destroyed. The report concludes "the Commission has no confidence that all bulk agents have been destroyed... and that a BW capability does not exist in Iraq."

Iraq also claims to have produced lesser quantities of clostridium perfringens spores, ricin, and wheat cover smut.

BW Warheads: Iraq claimed to have produced 25 Al-Hussein missile warheads and filled them with BW agents. The Commission found that there was no credible evidence to show that only 25 missiles were produced and filled. Iraq declared that the 25 missiles were unilaterally destroyed; the Commission found enough physical evidence to account for the declared quantities of BW warheads, but the location of the remnants were inconsistent with Iraq's story.

BW bombs: Iraq declared that 200 R-400 aerial bombs were manufactured for BW purposes, but acknowledged that the numbers of bombs filled with particular agents (100 with botulinum toxin, 50 with bacillus anthracis spores, and 7 with aflatoxin) were "guesses." UNSCOM did find evidence of the destruction of some BW bombs at the site declared by Iraq, but found that the remnants account for less than one third of the bombs Iraq claims to have destroyed. In addition, UNSCOM found evidence of R-400A bombs carrying BW at an airfield where no BW weapons were declared.

Aircraft drop tanks: Iraq claimed that it produced 4 aircraft drop tanks to disseminate BW agents, and was developing a pilotless aircraft that could carry the tanks, holding either BW or chemical weapons, and release the toxins at a preset time. UNSCOM found that there was no evidence corroborate that only 4 were produced, and noted that interviews indicated that 12 were planned. Remnants of only three destroyed tanks were recovered. UNSCOM also rejected the evidence offered by Iraq--a letter thanking the project workers--that the pilotless aircraft project was shut down.

Aerosol Generators: Iraq developed aerosol generators for the dispersal of BW agents by modifying helicopter-borne commercial chemical insecticide disseminators. Although Iraq claimed the devices were ineffective, UNSCOM received documentation that they were successfully field tested. Interview evidence suggests that there were 12 devices produced; none were destroyed by UNSCOM.

Remaining Bacterial Growth Media: UNSCOM determined that there remained substantial bacterial growth media imported into Iraq which remains unaccounted for: 460 kg. of casien; 80 kg. of thioglocollate broth; 520 kg. of yeast extract; and 1100 kg of peptone. The report says that "the amounts that are 'missing' are significant, and would be sufficient to produce quantities of agent comparable to that already declared by Iraq."


IRAQ'S CHEMICAL WEAPONS (CW) PROGRAM

UNSCOM was more successful in its pursuit of Iraq's CW program largely because Iraq was more cooperative with its disclosures. The final report notes that a "significant number" of chemical weapons, their components, and related equipment were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision between 1991 and 1997. In addition, the report found:

Extensive CW program: Iraq acknowledged that it carried out a large scale CW program between 1982 and 1990. It claims that more than 50% of its chemical weapons stocks were consumed during the 1980s, and that the majority of its production facilities were destroyed by aerial bombing during the Gulf War.

Bulk CW agents: Iraq said that it produced 3,859 tons of CW agents during the entire implementation of its CW program, and that 3,315 tons of these agents were weaponized. Agents produced in large quantities included mustard, tabun, and sarin.

According to Iraq, 80% of the weaponized CW agents were consumed between 1982 and 1988. In addition, they claim to have unilaterally discarded 130 tons of non-weaponized CW agents during the 1980s. UNSCOM found that these numbers could not be verified.

After the Gulf War, Iraq claimed that it had 412.5 tons of CW agents remaining. Four hundred eleven tons were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision; 1.5 tons of the CW agent VX remain unaccounted for.

Special Munitions: Iraq claimed that between 1982 and 1988, 100,000 munitions filled with CW agents were consumed or disposed of. UNSCOM found that this number could not be verified.

After the Gulf war, Iraq declared that there remained over 56,000 special munitions which could carry either CW or BW agents (22,000 filled, 34,000 unfilled). These munitions are all accounted for. They were either destroyed or converted for conventional weapons purposes.

Iraq claimed that there were 42,000 special munitions destroyed in the Gulf War. UNSCOM was unable to verify that number, and found that the destruction of 2,000 unfilled munitions remains uncertain, and 550 filled munitions remain unaccounted for.

Iraq claimed that it unilaterally destroyed 29,000 special munitions; UNSCOM found that of these, 100 filled munitions remain unaccounted for.
------------------------------------------------

I doubt you will read that. You stupid piece of shit.

Fortunately they had no operational aircraft or rockets, no fuel, no trained technicians, nothing.....nothing but the contrived perception of an imminent threat.

 

[francoHFW]

OP- They don't. Afghan was won, but lost by running off to irrelevant Iraq. Hence the 2 stupidest and longest wars ever. Great job!!

And the world depression you started will keep this chaos going until the US leads the world out of it, which Pubs have been blocking mindlessly since 2/4/2010. A-holes and chumps...

Thickest substance known to man. Pub dupe skull.

 

[flacaltenn]

Absolute fucking horseshit. There was no immediate imperative to invade Iraq, no WMDs, no link to 911, no threat to our security, nothing. It was a completely unnecessary distraction from our primary mission in Afghanistan.

I didn't say 9.11.. I gave you the FIRST WTC bombing which DID have an Iraqi connection.
The threat to our security was conducting the containment in the presence of a CRUMBLING coalition with the Euros. It was 12 years of pissy policy that needed to be fixed.

Your outburst just places you square in the "dont' care about 200,000 dead Iraqi children" -- GIVE ME MORE --- camp ---- or the corruption found in the UN Oil for Food program. Not possible to claim that our forces in Saudi and the Arabian Gulf wouldn't be taxed by Saddam whilst we were busy in Afghanistan anyway..

Any thoughts on the number of Iraqi casualties since?

The killing goes on today.. but we're not doing it. And we don't have Mad. NotSoBright making excuses for dead Iraqi children. And the large portion of civilian casualties while we WERE there came from insurrection, not American bombers and lack of medical supplies and food.

 

[francoHFW]

Jeebus, dupe, no one cares about chem and bios- RAYGUN helped Saddam with them duh. The mushroom clouds were a total lie.

 

[Discombobulated]

I didn't say 9.11.. I gave you the FIRST WTC bombing which DID have an Iraqi connection.
The threat to our security was conducting the containment in the presence of a CRUMBLING coalition with the Euros. It was 12 years of pissy policy that needed to be fixed.

Your outburst just places you square in the "dont' care about 200,000 dead Iraqi children" -- GIVE ME MORE --- camp ---- or the corruption found in the UN Oil for Food program. Not possible to claim that our forces in Saudi and the Arabian Gulf wouldn't be taxed by Saddam whilst we were busy in Afghanistan anyway..

Any thoughts on the number of Iraqi casualties since?

The killing goes on today.. but we're not doing it. And we don't have Mad. NotSoBright making excuses for dead Iraqi children. And the large portion of civilian casualties while we WERE there came from insurrection, not American bombers and lack of medical supplies and food.

I see, so then I guess the Bush Administration must have invaded Iraq out of humanitarian concerns for the welfare of the Iraqi people. That was extremely generous, very charitable.

 

[Sallow]

I didn't say 9.11.. I gave you the FIRST WTC bombing which DID have an Iraqi connection.
The threat to our security was conducting the containment in the presence of a CRUMBLING coalition with the Euros. It was 12 years of pissy policy that needed to be fixed.

Your outburst just places you square in the "dont' care about 200,000 dead Iraqi children" -- GIVE ME MORE --- camp ---- or the corruption found in the UN Oil for Food program. Not possible to claim that our forces in Saudi and the Arabian Gulf wouldn't be taxed by Saddam whilst we were busy in Afghanistan anyway..

Any thoughts on the number of Iraqi casualties since?

The killing goes on today.. but we're not doing it. And we don't have Mad. NotSoBright making excuses for dead Iraqi children. And the large portion of civilian casualties while we WERE there came from insurrection, not American bombers and lack of medical supplies and food.

Naw.

They were really coming from American bombs and bullets.



That's the kind of shit that was happening over and over again.

And the US lied about it.

Over and over again.

THAT'S why there is no tally of civilian deaths by the military.

It probably numbers lose to a million.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Actually, he started 2 UNFUNDED wars and then cut taxes TWICE after that. One of those wars was a a case of the Bush admin intentionally lying and misleading the public and Congress about WMDs in Iraq. No one screamed impeachment then. The irony.

Correct.

Iraq was illegal because it was authorized by Congress predicated on lies fabricated by the Bush Administration:

There was no connection between Saddam and Al-Qaeda.

Saddam was in no way involved in 9/11.

Saddam did not possess WMDs, nor was he ‘close’ to developing them, as the UN inspections were successfully preventing him from doing so.

Saddam did not pose a threat to his people or neighbors, as the NFZ was working successfully and as intended.

Although Congress authorized the invasion of Iraq in good faith, the authorization was invalid because of the lies, and consequently illegal.

As for the illegality of Afghanistan:

The U.S. war in Afghanistan was not authorized by the UN Security Council in 2001 or at anytime since, so this war began as an illegal war and remains an illegal war today. Our government’s claim to the contrary is false.

This war has been illegal, moreover, not only under international law, but also under U.S. law. The UN Charter is a treaty, which was ratified by the United States, and, according to Article VI of the US Constitution, any treaty ratified by the United States is part of the “supreme law of the land.”[7] The war in Afghanistan, therefore, has from the beginning been in violation of US as well as international law. It could not be more illegal.

Did 9/11 Justify the War in Afghanistan? | Foreign Policy Journal

 

[TheJedi]

Actually, he started 2 UNFUNDED wars and then cut taxes TWICE after that. One of those wars was a a case of the Bush admin intentionally lying and misleading the public and Congress about WMDs in Iraq. No one screamed impeachment then. The irony.

Here you go, you fucking puppet.


Saddam Hussein's Weapons Of Mass Destruction | Gunning For Saddam | FRONTLINE | PBS

In its 1999 final report to the U.N. Security Council, UNSCOM noted that Iraq's biological warfare program was "among the most secretive of its programs of weapons of mass destruction." It said that Iraq "took active steps" to conceal the program, including "inadequate disclosures, unilateral destruction, and concealment activities." Therefore, the Commission concluded, "it has not been possible to verify" Iraq's statements about the extent and nature of its biological weapons program.

A 58 page annex to the final report describes what the Commission was able to learn about the BW program, despite Iraq's concealment activities, and documents discrepancies between what Iraq claimed to have developed, or destroyed, and the physical evidence. Some of the findings include:

Extensive BW program: Iraq had an extensive BW program from 1973 until at least 1991. In mid-1995, Iraq admitted that it had weaponized BW agents, but claimed that the entire BW program had been in "obliterated" in 1991 and that all BW weapons had been destroyed and all bulk BW agents had been deactivated. The Commission found, however, that the evidence produced in support of this claim was not credible, and that Iraq "retained suitable growth media, BW facilities, production equipment, teams of expert personnel, and the essential technical knowledge" after 1991.

Bulk production: In July, 1995, Iraq acknowledged that between 1988 and 1991, it had produced two BW agents in bulk: botulinum toxin and Bacillus anthracis spores (anthrax). Iraq reported 19,180 liters of botulinum toxin (10-20 fold concentrated) and 8445 liters of Bacillus anthracis spores (10 fold concentrated).

UNSCOM found, however, that "bulk warfare agent production appears to be considerably understated," given the resources available to Iraq's BW program, including growth media and fermenter capacity. The Commission said that the production rate of Botulinum toxin could be as much as double the stated amount, and 3 times greater than that stated for Bacillus anthracis spores.

Iraq claimed that it unilaterally destroyed more than 7500 liters of the Botulinum toxin and 3412 liters of Bacillus anthracis spores in 1991; UNSCOM noted that there was not evidence to support quantities claimed to be destroyed. The report concludes "the Commission has no confidence that all bulk agents have been destroyed... and that a BW capability does not exist in Iraq."

Iraq also claims to have produced lesser quantities of clostridium perfringens spores, ricin, and wheat cover smut.

BW Warheads: Iraq claimed to have produced 25 Al-Hussein missile warheads and filled them with BW agents. The Commission found that there was no credible evidence to show that only 25 missiles were produced and filled. Iraq declared that the 25 missiles were unilaterally destroyed; the Commission found enough physical evidence to account for the declared quantities of BW warheads, but the location of the remnants were inconsistent with Iraq's story.

BW bombs: Iraq declared that 200 R-400 aerial bombs were manufactured for BW purposes, but acknowledged that the numbers of bombs filled with particular agents (100 with botulinum toxin, 50 with bacillus anthracis spores, and 7 with aflatoxin) were "guesses." UNSCOM did find evidence of the destruction of some BW bombs at the site declared by Iraq, but found that the remnants account for less than one third of the bombs Iraq claims to have destroyed. In addition, UNSCOM found evidence of R-400A bombs carrying BW at an airfield where no BW weapons were declared.

Aircraft drop tanks: Iraq claimed that it produced 4 aircraft drop tanks to disseminate BW agents, and was developing a pilotless aircraft that could carry the tanks, holding either BW or chemical weapons, and release the toxins at a preset time. UNSCOM found that there was no evidence corroborate that only 4 were produced, and noted that interviews indicated that 12 were planned. Remnants of only three destroyed tanks were recovered. UNSCOM also rejected the evidence offered by Iraq--a letter thanking the project workers--that the pilotless aircraft project was shut down.

Aerosol Generators: Iraq developed aerosol generators for the dispersal of BW agents by modifying helicopter-borne commercial chemical insecticide disseminators. Although Iraq claimed the devices were ineffective, UNSCOM received documentation that they were successfully field tested. Interview evidence suggests that there were 12 devices produced; none were destroyed by UNSCOM.

Remaining Bacterial Growth Media: UNSCOM determined that there remained substantial bacterial growth media imported into Iraq which remains unaccounted for: 460 kg. of casien; 80 kg. of thioglocollate broth; 520 kg. of yeast extract; and 1100 kg of peptone. The report says that "the amounts that are 'missing' are significant, and would be sufficient to produce quantities of agent comparable to that already declared by Iraq."


IRAQ'S CHEMICAL WEAPONS (CW) PROGRAM

UNSCOM was more successful in its pursuit of Iraq's CW program largely because Iraq was more cooperative with its disclosures. The final report notes that a "significant number" of chemical weapons, their components, and related equipment were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision between 1991 and 1997. In addition, the report found:

Extensive CW program: Iraq acknowledged that it carried out a large scale CW program between 1982 and 1990. It claims that more than 50% of its chemical weapons stocks were consumed during the 1980s, and that the majority of its production facilities were destroyed by aerial bombing during the Gulf War.

Bulk CW agents: Iraq said that it produced 3,859 tons of CW agents during the entire implementation of its CW program, and that 3,315 tons of these agents were weaponized. Agents produced in large quantities included mustard, tabun, and sarin.

According to Iraq, 80% of the weaponized CW agents were consumed between 1982 and 1988. In addition, they claim to have unilaterally discarded 130 tons of non-weaponized CW agents during the 1980s. UNSCOM found that these numbers could not be verified.

After the Gulf War, Iraq claimed that it had 412.5 tons of CW agents remaining. Four hundred eleven tons were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision; 1.5 tons of the CW agent VX remain unaccounted for.

Special Munitions: Iraq claimed that between 1982 and 1988, 100,000 munitions filled with CW agents were consumed or disposed of. UNSCOM found that this number could not be verified.

After the Gulf war, Iraq declared that there remained over 56,000 special munitions which could carry either CW or BW agents (22,000 filled, 34,000 unfilled). These munitions are all accounted for. They were either destroyed or converted for conventional weapons purposes.

Iraq claimed that there were 42,000 special munitions destroyed in the Gulf War. UNSCOM was unable to verify that number, and found that the destruction of 2,000 unfilled munitions remains uncertain, and 550 filled munitions remain unaccounted for.

Iraq claimed that it unilaterally destroyed 29,000 special munitions; UNSCOM found that of these, 100 filled munitions remain unaccounted for.
------------------------------------------------

I doubt you will read that. You stupid piece of shit.

Ok, pumpkin, you need to relax while daddy goes and gets you your Ritalin.

Back to reality. You, sir, are an ignorant fool. No, really. It's true. I was nothing short of right. Period. You can argue with my statement until you are blue in the face, it will never change the irrefutable, undeniable fact that is was dead accurate. I imagine you related to GWB due to his astounding ignorance and hubris. It shows.

Here is a heaping dose of fact for you. Prepare to swallow hard:

No WMDs in Iraq

"Saddam Husayn ended the nuclear program in 1991 following the Gulf war. ISG found no evidence to suggest concerted efforts to restart the program."

"While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter."

"In practical terms, with the destruction of the Al Hakam facility, Iraq abandoned its ambition to obtain advanced BW [biological warfare] weapons quickly. ISG found no direct evidence that Iraq, after 1996, had plans for a new BW program or was conducting BW-specific work for military purposes."

Experts from the three nations failed to document any existent biological or nuclear weapons and discovered only a few random chemical weapons. The ISG concluded that contrary to what most of the world had believed, Iraq had abandoned attempts to produce WMDs. In his congressional testimony, the head of the ISG, Charles Duelfer, admitted, "We were almost all wrong" on Iraq.

The ISG report was sufficient to convince the Bush administration that there were no WMDs to be found; they called off the search in 2005. If that doesn’t convince your friends, we’re not sure what else might do the trick. Anyone who believes something without any positive evidence and in the face of evidence to the contrary is no longer acting on the basis of reason.

Here's more honeybunny. A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down:

U.S. Intelligence on WMDs in Iraq

And more!

Uranium in Iraq

Seriously! Need I continue because I can go on embarrassing you all night. It's rather amusing.

OK. One more:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2007/oct/09/fred-thompson/the-iraq-study-group-didnt-say-that/

During a Republican debate in Dearborn, Mich., on Oct. 9, 2007, Fred Thompson was asked to explain his previous comments about whether Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. He replied that Saddam had used them against the Kurds and had nuclear reactors in the early 1980s. Thompson added, "The Iraq Study Group reported that (Saddam) had designs on reviving his nuclear program, which he had started once upon a time."

The Iraq Study Group was a bipartisan panel created by Congress to recommend a better U.S. strategy in Iraq. The panel was headed by former Secretary of State James A. Baker III and Lee Hamilton, a former member of Congress who chaired the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

In December 2006, the group released its report, The Way Forward: A New Approach, which recommended a new U.S. strategy. The 142-page report focused on the future of Iraq and did not address whether Saddam wanted to restart a nuclear program. So we find Thompson's claim to be False.

It's possible that Thompson was referring to the Iraq Survey Group, a CIA panel that was formed to investigate whether there were weapons of mass destruction or the intent to produce WMDs in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. The report found that Saddam did not produce or possess any weapons of mass destruction for more than a decade before the U.S.-led invasion, but that he "aspired to develop a nuclear capability — in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international pressure and the resulting economic risks."

 

[Theowl32]

So there are some liberals who think both wars were unwarranted, others that said they never said both were.

Which is it?

Were both wars unwarranted?

Liberals are clueless hacks and I told you they are nothing but hopeless double talking hypocritical hack puppets.

Nothing more. Fucking truthers.

Keep in mind, these are people that voted for Obama twice, brag about it, and thinks every scandal surrounding him is a myth. Like they thought terrorism was a bumper sticker myth then cheer when Obama drones them.

The funny thing is watching think they make sense. Pieces of shit.

So, which is it? Were both wars unwarranted. Have fun with these answers fellow conservatives. There is already 26 pages full of them saying yes both were and no they were on the side of the Afghan one. Now, there is one saying the Afghan one was not justified either.

Yes, they think the taliban are good and decent people. Just like....they think Saddam was a good and decent man.

Liberals are indeed the scourge on our country and in our world. Hopeless ignorant hypocritical know it all hacks.

 

[Theowl32]

Actually, he started 2 UNFUNDED wars and then cut taxes TWICE after that. One of those wars was a a case of the Bush admin intentionally lying and misleading the public and Congress about WMDs in Iraq. No one screamed impeachment then. The irony.

Here you go, you fucking puppet.


Saddam Hussein's Weapons Of Mass Destruction | Gunning For Saddam | FRONTLINE | PBS

In its 1999 final report to the U.N. Security Council, UNSCOM noted that Iraq's biological warfare program was "among the most secretive of its programs of weapons of mass destruction." It said that Iraq "took active steps" to conceal the program, including "inadequate disclosures, unilateral destruction, and concealment activities." Therefore, the Commission concluded, "it has not been possible to verify" Iraq's statements about the extent and nature of its biological weapons program.

A 58 page annex to the final report describes what the Commission was able to learn about the BW program, despite Iraq's concealment activities, and documents discrepancies between what Iraq claimed to have developed, or destroyed, and the physical evidence. Some of the findings include:

Extensive BW program: Iraq had an extensive BW program from 1973 until at least 1991. In mid-1995, Iraq admitted that it had weaponized BW agents, but claimed that the entire BW program had been in "obliterated" in 1991 and that all BW weapons had been destroyed and all bulk BW agents had been deactivated. The Commission found, however, that the evidence produced in support of this claim was not credible, and that Iraq "retained suitable growth media, BW facilities, production equipment, teams of expert personnel, and the essential technical knowledge" after 1991.

Bulk production: In July, 1995, Iraq acknowledged that between 1988 and 1991, it had produced two BW agents in bulk: botulinum toxin and Bacillus anthracis spores (anthrax). Iraq reported 19,180 liters of botulinum toxin (10-20 fold concentrated) and 8445 liters of Bacillus anthracis spores (10 fold concentrated).

UNSCOM found, however, that "bulk warfare agent production appears to be considerably understated," given the resources available to Iraq's BW program, including growth media and fermenter capacity. The Commission said that the production rate of Botulinum toxin could be as much as double the stated amount, and 3 times greater than that stated for Bacillus anthracis spores.

Iraq claimed that it unilaterally destroyed more than 7500 liters of the Botulinum toxin and 3412 liters of Bacillus anthracis spores in 1991; UNSCOM noted that there was not evidence to support quantities claimed to be destroyed. The report concludes "the Commission has no confidence that all bulk agents have been destroyed... and that a BW capability does not exist in Iraq."

Iraq also claims to have produced lesser quantities of clostridium perfringens spores, ricin, and wheat cover smut.

BW Warheads: Iraq claimed to have produced 25 Al-Hussein missile warheads and filled them with BW agents. The Commission found that there was no credible evidence to show that only 25 missiles were produced and filled. Iraq declared that the 25 missiles were unilaterally destroyed; the Commission found enough physical evidence to account for the declared quantities of BW warheads, but the location of the remnants were inconsistent with Iraq's story.

BW bombs: Iraq declared that 200 R-400 aerial bombs were manufactured for BW purposes, but acknowledged that the numbers of bombs filled with particular agents (100 with botulinum toxin, 50 with bacillus anthracis spores, and 7 with aflatoxin) were "guesses." UNSCOM did find evidence of the destruction of some BW bombs at the site declared by Iraq, but found that the remnants account for less than one third of the bombs Iraq claims to have destroyed. In addition, UNSCOM found evidence of R-400A bombs carrying BW at an airfield where no BW weapons were declared.

Aircraft drop tanks: Iraq claimed that it produced 4 aircraft drop tanks to disseminate BW agents, and was developing a pilotless aircraft that could carry the tanks, holding either BW or chemical weapons, and release the toxins at a preset time. UNSCOM found that there was no evidence corroborate that only 4 were produced, and noted that interviews indicated that 12 were planned. Remnants of only three destroyed tanks were recovered. UNSCOM also rejected the evidence offered by Iraq--a letter thanking the project workers--that the pilotless aircraft project was shut down.

Aerosol Generators: Iraq developed aerosol generators for the dispersal of BW agents by modifying helicopter-borne commercial chemical insecticide disseminators. Although Iraq claimed the devices were ineffective, UNSCOM received documentation that they were successfully field tested. Interview evidence suggests that there were 12 devices produced; none were destroyed by UNSCOM.

Remaining Bacterial Growth Media: UNSCOM determined that there remained substantial bacterial growth media imported into Iraq which remains unaccounted for: 460 kg. of casien; 80 kg. of thioglocollate broth; 520 kg. of yeast extract; and 1100 kg of peptone. The report says that "the amounts that are 'missing' are significant, and would be sufficient to produce quantities of agent comparable to that already declared by Iraq."


IRAQ'S CHEMICAL WEAPONS (CW) PROGRAM

UNSCOM was more successful in its pursuit of Iraq's CW program largely because Iraq was more cooperative with its disclosures. The final report notes that a "significant number" of chemical weapons, their components, and related equipment were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision between 1991 and 1997. In addition, the report found:

Extensive CW program: Iraq acknowledged that it carried out a large scale CW program between 1982 and 1990. It claims that more than 50% of its chemical weapons stocks were consumed during the 1980s, and that the majority of its production facilities were destroyed by aerial bombing during the Gulf War.

Bulk CW agents: Iraq said that it produced 3,859 tons of CW agents during the entire implementation of its CW program, and that 3,315 tons of these agents were weaponized. Agents produced in large quantities included mustard, tabun, and sarin.

According to Iraq, 80% of the weaponized CW agents were consumed between 1982 and 1988. In addition, they claim to have unilaterally discarded 130 tons of non-weaponized CW agents during the 1980s. UNSCOM found that these numbers could not be verified.

After the Gulf War, Iraq claimed that it had 412.5 tons of CW agents remaining. Four hundred eleven tons were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision; 1.5 tons of the CW agent VX remain unaccounted for.

Special Munitions: Iraq claimed that between 1982 and 1988, 100,000 munitions filled with CW agents were consumed or disposed of. UNSCOM found that this number could not be verified.

After the Gulf war, Iraq declared that there remained over 56,000 special munitions which could carry either CW or BW agents (22,000 filled, 34,000 unfilled). These munitions are all accounted for. They were either destroyed or converted for conventional weapons purposes.

Iraq claimed that there were 42,000 special munitions destroyed in the Gulf War. UNSCOM was unable to verify that number, and found that the destruction of 2,000 unfilled munitions remains uncertain, and 550 filled munitions remain unaccounted for.

Iraq claimed that it unilaterally destroyed 29,000 special munitions; UNSCOM found that of these, 100 filled munitions remain unaccounted for.
------------------------------------------------

I doubt you will read that. You stupid piece of shit.

Ok, pumpkin, you need to relax while daddy goes and gets you your Ritalin.

Back to reality. You, sir, are an ignorant fool. No, really. It's true. I was nothing short of right. Period. You can argue with my statement until you are blue in the face, it will never change the irrefutable, undeniable fact that is was dead accurate. I imagine you related to GWB due to his astounding ignorance and hubris. It shows.

Here is a heaping dose of fact for you. Prepare to swallow hard:

No WMDs in Iraq

"Saddam Husayn ended the nuclear program in 1991 following the Gulf war. ISG found no evidence to suggest concerted efforts to restart the program."

"While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter."

"In practical terms, with the destruction of the Al Hakam facility, Iraq abandoned its ambition to obtain advanced BW [biological warfare] weapons quickly. ISG found no direct evidence that Iraq, after 1996, had plans for a new BW program or was conducting BW-specific work for military purposes."

Experts from the three nations failed to document any existent biological or nuclear weapons and discovered only a few random chemical weapons. The ISG concluded that contrary to what most of the world had believed, Iraq had abandoned attempts to produce WMDs. In his congressional testimony, the head of the ISG, Charles Duelfer, admitted, "We were almost all wrong" on Iraq.

The ISG report was sufficient to convince the Bush administration that there were no WMDs to be found; they called off the search in 2005. If that doesn’t convince your friends, we’re not sure what else might do the trick. Anyone who believes something without any positive evidence and in the face of evidence to the contrary is no longer acting on the basis of reason.

Here's more honeybunny. A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down:

U.S. Intelligence on WMDs in Iraq

And more!

Uranium in Iraq

Seriously! Need I continue because I can go on embarrassing you all night. It's rather amusing.

OK. One more:

The Iraq Study Group didn't say that | PolitiFact

During a Republican debate in Dearborn, Mich., on Oct. 9, 2007, Fred Thompson was asked to explain his previous comments about whether Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. He replied that Saddam had used them against the Kurds and had nuclear reactors in the early 1980s. Thompson added, "The Iraq Study Group reported that (Saddam) had designs on reviving his nuclear program, which he had started once upon a time."

The Iraq Study Group was a bipartisan panel created by Congress to recommend a better U.S. strategy in Iraq. The panel was headed by former Secretary of State James A. Baker III and Lee Hamilton, a former member of Congress who chaired the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

In December 2006, the group released its report, The Way Forward: A New Approach, which recommended a new U.S. strategy. The 142-page report focused on the future of Iraq and did not address whether Saddam wanted to restart a nuclear program. So we find Thompson's claim to be False.

It's possible that Thompson was referring to the Iraq Survey Group, a CIA panel that was formed to investigate whether there were weapons of mass destruction or the intent to produce WMDs in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. The report found that Saddam did not produce or possess any weapons of mass destruction for more than a decade before the U.S.-led invasion, but that he "aspired to develop a nuclear capability — in an incremental fashion, irrespective of international pressure and the resulting economic risks."

WMDs are not limited to nuclear weapons and the democrats propagated the existence of wmds before Bush took office. You piece of ignorant shit.


Your fucking hindsight being 20/20 has nothing to do with what was being reported and why the UN voted 15-0 for the removal.

Regardless of him not having WMDs, he was in violation of 17 resolutions. That is clearly stated.

Go back to your star wars hack. You are nothing if you do not hold democrats responsible for anything. Stop acting like you did not omit factors.

 

[TheJedi]

So there are some liberals who think both wars were unwarranted, others that said they never said both were.

Which is it?

Were both wars unwarranted?

Liberals are clueless hacks and I told you they are nothing but hopeless double talking hypocritical hack puppets.

Nothing more. Fucking truthers.

Keep in mind, these are people that voted for Obama twice, brag about it, and thinks every scandal surrounding him is a myth. Like they thought terrorism was a bumper sticker myth then cheer when Obama drones them.

The funny thing is watching think they make sense. Pieces of shit.

So, which is it? Were both wars unwarranted. Have fun with these answers fellow conservatives. There is already 26 pages full of them saying yes both were and no they were on the side of the Afghan one. Now, there is one saying the Afghan one was not justified either.

Yes, they think the taliban are good and decent people. Just like....they think Saddam was a good and decent man.

Liberals are indeed the scourge on our country and in our world. Hopeless ignorant hypocritical know it all hacks.

And what we learn here is that you positively made no constructive contribution to the conversation other than to spew baseless insults and rhetoric while making broad generalizations about an entire group of people. None of whom you have ever met. Fascinating!

I agreed with going into A-stan though I disagree with it's implementation. In the end, we got BinLaden with a covert team of badasses. We could have been more surgical in our approach but that is just semantics. Now we just need to get out and let them burn their own country down.

We should have NEVER went into Iraq. It was all a ruse perpetuated mainly by Cheney. I doubt you will read this but the evidence is staggering:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Hubris-Inside-Story-Scandal-Selling/dp/030734682X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403139969&sr=8-1&keywords=hubris"]http://www.amazon.com/Hubris-Inside-Story-Scandal-Selling/dp/030734682X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403139969&sr=8-1&keywords=hubris[/ame]

 

[TheJedi]

WMDs are not limited to nuclear weapons and the democrats propagated the existence of wmds before Bush took office. You piece of ignorant shit.


Your fucking hindsight being 20/20 has nothing to do with what was being reported and why the UN voted 15-0 for the removal.

Regardless of him not having WMDs, he was in violation of 17 resolutions. That is clearly stated.

Go back to your star wars hack. You are nothing if you do not hold democrats responsible for anything. Stop acting like you did not omit factors.

You are the only ignorant person posting on this board, child. Who cares if he was in violation of 17 resolutions, we are not the world's fucking police. He posed no danger to our country. He was NOT supporting Al-Quaeda. He was just an asshole dictator that kept his country from imploding by being a murderous bastard. I could care less if he kills his own people. Let another country lead the way in if NATO though it was more important. And there is another factoid you are missing. The only other country that supported us in going in was the UK. Even the UN told us, "Fuck you!" Bush went in essentially unilaterally. Remember the whole "freedom fries" bullshit?

 

[francoHFW]

For the billionth time, Afghan was good, wrecked by going after Saddam in the stupidest war ever...

 

[Lakhota]

Bush was asleep at the wheel by ignoring pre-9/11 warnings.

 

[flacaltenn]

I just want Jedi and Dicombob and Sallow to say it.. Tell us that we should kept the Iraqis locked up with a madman while we bombed them daily and took away their economy.. OR do the right thing and let him out of containment. Either choice... THEN we can chat about what Booooosh decided to do to change an awful policy that would have hindered our efforts in Afghan anyway with YOUR preferred choices..

Thats the honesty required to resolve this issue of how we got here.

 

[Kosh]

I see the same old tired far left debunked talking points over and over again.

Mind you they are just now a lie, but they keep posting them.

 

[francoHFW]

Such as?