Real Progress Towards A Climate Change Solution I can Believe In

[toobfreak]

Whoa there Nelly ... this is a profoundly false equivalence ... hydrogen gas is extremely rare on Earth, so rare as to be considered non-existent ... gravity doesn't hold it in our atmosphere or our soils ... except for a few natural biological processes and of course man's activities ...

NELLY SAYS: Well of course. Free hydrogen is the lightest element, so there isn't much in the atmosphere and most of it is bound up in chemical reactions in rocks and plants, thus any compound with the prefix "hydro-" has hydrogen bound up in its molecular chain. That said, by my crude calculation, the Earth still has about 9.17 X 10^19th power tons of hydrogen in it. And like I said, the universe is almost MADE of hydrogen--- nebular gas clouds, the Sun, Jupiter et al--- we just gotta figure a way of getting (or making) it cheaply.

The solution is conservation ... using less energy ... simple ...

NELLY SAYS: Yes, the real solution is to let global population naturally fade back to about 2 billion like when I was born, as well as gradually better and cleaner technology as it becomes practical.

 

[Sunsettommy]

It appears the cheerleader isn't going to address the long-known problems and weaknesses of this Fuel Cell idea brought up in the thread thus can safely walk away once again unimpressed with Hydrogen Fuel Cell Fantasies fanatics promote which has been going on for years..... while the Hydrogen "egg" never gets hatched not even with a pile of subsidies doesn't seem to excite much beyond the crowd of 25 acolytes.....

 

[Donald H]

Let's raise this discussion to a slightly higher level. Water doesn't have the prefix 'hydro' and so contains no hydrogen.

Just because it's also called H2O doesn't mean it's 2/3's hydrogen!

Don't attempt thiis if your brains are already too full.

 

[toobfreak]

Actually, the most immediate problem towards hydrogen-powered cars is the pressurized tank needed to store and carry the hydrogen around with you. As to generating the needed hydrogen cleanly in the first place, I consider that at least no bigger a problem than already currently faced by the EV industry in making and transmitting enough electricity to power everything in an EV universe.

 

[ReinyDays]

NELLY SAYS: Well of course. Free hydrogen is the lightest element, so there isn't much in the atmosphere and most of it is bound up in chemical reactions in rocks and plants, thus any compound with the prefix "hydro-" has hydrogen bound up in its molecular chain. That said, by my crude calculation, the Earth still has about 9.17 X 10^19th power tons of hydrogen in it. And like I said, the universe is almost MADE of hydrogen--- nebular gas clouds, the Sun, Jupiter et al--- we just gotta figure a way of getting (or making) it cheaply.

The Earth has 9.17x10^19 tons of protons ... you mean ... the electrons are involved in chemical bonding and not available ... the gaseous form of hydrogen requires two elections and we just can't create these out of nothing ... the redox model works in these cases ... we have to add energy to the hydrogen molecule in order to reduce it, literally pulling the hydrogen atoms off the molecule with the electrons ... and now we send hydrogen downpipe and oxidize her with atmospheric oxygen ... c'mon Nelly, chemistry 101 ...

The Sun spews hydrogen out into the solar system ... our magnetic field protects us from the Solar Wind ... this is hydrogen is her plasma state-of-matter, to hot for electrons to orbit the nucleus ... c'mon Nelly, astronomy 101 ... HII is the same as bare nekked protons ...

NELLY SAYS: Yes, the real solution is to let global population naturally fade back to about 2 billion like when I was born, as well as gradually better and cleaner technology as it becomes practical.

You were born 100 years ago? ... we passed 2 billion in 1927 ... 4 billion when Population Bomb was published in the 1970's ... 8 billion today ... but why bring that up with people who already have their fertility rates below replacement? ...

We have cleaner and better technologies today ... although practical, they aren't economical in all places ... and this is where your own wallet counts ... use the technology that's cheapest ... and let the free market decide what's best ... EVs work here, not because it is sunny all the time, fuck no, it rains and rains and rains and rains and rains ... and that means hydropower !!! ... renewable and cheapest-in-the-nation ... just horrifically carbon intensive to build ...

 

[toobfreak]

The Earth has 9.17x10^19 tons of protons ... you mean ...

NELLY SAYS: No, I took the percentage of the Earth which is hydrogen and the weight of the earth, converted it into tonnage, and that is what I came up with. The Earth is something like 0.14% hydrogen. That is still a lot of hydrogen (for our needs).

The Sun spews hydrogen out into the solar system ...

NELLY SAYS: Yippee! Now all we gotta do is send an astronaut outside the ISS with a bag to start collecting it.

You were born 100 years ago? ... we passed 2 billion in 1927 ... 4 billion when Population Bomb was published in the 1970's ...

NELLY SAYS: Whatever. I like the 2 billion figure. Maybe it was 3 billion when I was young--- I was too small to remember clearly.

... and that means hydropower !!! ... renewable and cheapest-in-the-nation ...

NELLY SAYS: Hydrogen! Bottom line: my only point here is that fuel cells offer a far better /long term/ solution than battery-powered cars ever will for a number of reasons!