Ron Paul says tornado victims should not get aid

[GuyPinestra]

I wish libertarians would actually read the Constitution. It would make things a lot easier

I read it all the time, I have a copy of it in my desk and the complete text of it online. Please point out the part of it that authorizes the Federal government to spend money on weather-related problems or 'disasters'...

General Welfare clause.

Show where any court has EVER upheld your bizarre interpretation that Natural Disasters don't fall within the scope of General Welfare

I don't believe your ridiculous proposition has ever been before a court, but if you're looking for precedent I can help you...

In 1893, when a massive drought afflicted Texas farmers, Cleveland categorically refused to grant federal aid to the victims. He issued an eloquent written justification for his decision:

“I do not believe that the power and duty of the General Government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit...The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune...Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthen the bond of a common brotherhood.”

Cleveland’s words skillfully represent the contrast between the effects brought about by the voluntary generosity of private parties and those created through the exercise of the coercive powers of government. Private individuals, when not hindered by government intervention, have a choice in how to allocate their funds among the various purposes that they deem to be of importance.

 

[Liberty]

I don't see how ron paul is wrong. Americans have big hearts, and can donate on their own accord. Also, the state governments have natural disaster plans. Some of you just love the nanny government... The question is why.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Ok Paulestinian...

Ron Paul Takes Double Reimbursements On Travel Expenses According To Capitol Hill Newspaper - Business Insider

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3dbct7cPJU]Ron Paul Flies First Class on Taxpayer Money AP Story DEBUNKED by Lawrence O'Donnell - YouTube[/ame]

Try again, Junior.

So now you believe MSNBC?

Only when they tell the truth...

 

[Dr.Drock]

dumbfuck, the point was he is rich so his followers like you need to shut the fuck up about how charitable he is taking a paycut as POTUS. I doubt he will turn down the 24/7 protection, million dollar flights around the world, etc as POTUS.

Hell, just move into your trailer park and run the country.

He is rich, so don't give him a trophy for telling everyone he will work for $39K/year.

He is just desperate like you trying to get aproval and attention. "Ooooo look at me, I'll work for nothing if you elect me!"

He didn't make his money by robbing taxpayers of their hard earned money. He made it through private enterprise. You have no point here. None. Head; totally exploded.

Suite melt.

It's not the least bit charitable. An extremely low income should be status quo for what we expect of our politicians.

The amazing thing about it, is he's the only one with a normal view on what their income should be, politicians consistently raising their pay is something that sadly voters (you included) couldn't care less about.

 

[GoneBezerk]

A natural disaster can be equal to an invasion of a state. If LA is destroyed by an earthquake I would love to see your ass on TV telling them to suck it up and pay for it themselves.

The Feds are supposed to keep the states in line and to protect/help them when needed to keep the union functioning. The United STATES get dysfunctional if one state falls apart due to an invasion by foreigners or a natural disaster.

A hurricane wiping out Miami, a tornado wiping out Dallas, an earthquake wiping out LA....are all situations the FEDERAL Govt needs to step up and support the Americans harmed by something NOT THEIR FAULT.

You fucking losertarian kooks have tied someone getting Govt handouts for fucking up their lives with drugs/crime with someone's life being ruined by a tornado. You are just fucking nuts....

So if Canada invades Vermont, Vermont is on their own?

Last time I checked, one of the duties of the federal government is to protect the nation from foreign enemies. How this invasion scenario is somehow a proper analogy in your mind, is beyond me.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

dumbfuck, the point was he is rich so his followers like you need to shut the fuck up about how charitable he is taking a paycut as POTUS. I doubt he will turn down the 24/7 protection, million dollar flights around the world, etc as POTUS.

Hell, just move into your trailer park and run the country.

He is rich, so don't give him a trophy for telling everyone he will work for $39K/year.

He is just desperate like you trying to get aproval and attention. "Ooooo look at me, I'll work for nothing if you elect me!"

He didn't make his money by robbing taxpayers of their hard earned money. He made it through private enterprise. You have no point here. None. Head; totally exploded.

Suite melt.

It isn't charity to stop stealing from taxpayers. We call that integrity for the platform you stand on. He has that. You have no point. You're just name calling in a futile attempt to cover up your pointlessness.

Suit melt.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I don't see how ron paul is wrong. Americans have big hearts, and can donate on their own accord. Also, the state governments have natural disaster plans. Some of you just love the nanny government... The question is why.

Bitching about FEMA during Katrina, then getting on here and posting about how great federal aid is, doesn't make perfect sense to you?



Why not?!?!?!??!?!

 

[GuyPinestra]

A natural disaster can be equal to an invasion of a state. If LA is destroyed by an earthquake I would love to see your ass on TV telling them to suck it up and pay for it themselves.

The Feds are supposed to keep the states in line and to protect/help them when needed to keep the union functioning. The United STATES get dysfunctional if one state falls apart due to an invasion by foreigners or a natural disaster.

A hurricane wiping out Miami, a tornado wiping out Dallas, an earthquake wiping out LA....are all situations the FEDERAL Govt needs to step up and support the Americans harmed by something NOT THEIR FAULT.

You fucking losertarian kooks have tied someone getting Govt handouts for fucking up their lives with drugs/crime with someone's life being ruined by a tornado. You are just fucking nuts....

So now the goalposts get moved from localized tornado damage to entire metropolitan areas getting wiped out? You really should wipe the drool off of your chin...

 

[boilermaker55]

Seems to me that the great ultra advocates of states rights tried all this once before and they got their asses kicked.
It was a good thing that the president of the UNITED STATES back then was a compasionate man. Maybe it was to bad he didn't go with, to the victor goes the spoils.
For those who seem to be such strong proponents of the Consitution...you sure seem to forget quite a bit of how it reads.
Refresh your memory.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
With all of the posts from the teaparty or rightwingers there is one common thread.
MY money.
Everything else is up for grabs

 

[rightwinger]

I read it all the time, I have a copy of it in my desk and the complete text of it online. Please point out the part of it that authorizes the Federal government to spend money on weather-related problems or 'disasters'...

General Welfare clause.

Show where any court has EVER upheld your bizarre interpretation that Natural Disasters don't fall within the scope of General Welfare

I don't believe your ridiculous proposition has ever been before a court, but if you're looking for precedent I can help you...

In 1893, when a massive drought afflicted Texas farmers, Cleveland categorically refused to grant federal aid to the victims. He issued an eloquent written justification for his decision:

“I do not believe that the power and duty of the General Government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit...The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune...Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthen the bond of a common brotherhood.”

Cleveland’s words skillfully represent the contrast between the effects brought about by the voluntary generosity of private parties and those created through the exercise of the coercive powers of government. Private individuals, when not hindered by government intervention, have a choice in how to allocate their funds among the various purposes that they deem to be of importance.

Sorry....but your argument is a FAIL

Grover Cleveland was acting as chief executive. The fact that he told flood victims to fuck themselves has no Constitutional bearing

 

[GoneBezerk]

The people of IN say "fuck you."

Tornadoes wipe out two Indiana towns, kill at least three - San Jose Mercury News

Oh, so YOU are going to pick and choose which US cities get Federal support despite taxpayers in each city donating to the Federal pot.

A natural disaster can be equal to an invasion of a state. If LA is destroyed by an earthquake I would love to see your ass on TV telling them to suck it up and pay for it themselves.

The Feds are supposed to keep the states in line and to protect/help them when needed to keep the union functioning. The United STATES get dysfunctional if one state falls apart due to an invasion by foreigners or a natural disaster.

A hurricane wiping out Miami, a tornado wiping out Dallas, an earthquake wiping out LA....are all situations the FEDERAL Govt needs to step up and support the Americans harmed by something NOT THEIR FAULT.

You fucking losertarian kooks have tied someone getting Govt handouts for fucking up their lives with drugs/crime with someone's life being ruined by a tornado. You are just fucking nuts....

So now the goalposts get moved from localized tornado damage to entire metropolitan areas getting wiped out? You really should wipe the drool off of your chin...

 

[Dr.Drock]

Seems to me that the great ultra advocates of states rights tried all this once before and they got their asses kicked.
It was a good thing that the president of the UNITED STATES back then was a compasionate man. Maybe it was to bad he didn't go with, to the victor goes the spoils.
For those who seem to be such strong proponents of the Consitution...you sure seem to forget quite a bit of how it reads.
Refresh your memory.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
With all of the posts from the teaparty or rightwingers there is one common thread.
MY money.
Everything else is up for grabs

That's a lie.

All the gov't cuts we push for, we want you to get the same tax reduction benefits that we get. I don't want you to be forced to pay for certain gov't programs i like, which is exactly what you promote and advocate for. You want me to pay for what you want, I want you to receive the same tax deduction that I get.

What's the more selfish position there?

 

[Jarhead]

I don't see how ron paul is wrong. Americans have big hearts, and can donate on their own accord. Also, the state governments have natural disaster plans. Some of you just love the nanny government... The question is why.

Bitching about FEMA during Katrina, then getting on here and posting about how great federal aid is, doesn't make perfect sense to you?



Why not?!?!?!??!?!

because FEMA would have done quite well with Katrina....but Bush was a racist.....and he wanted to control the balck population...

So he intentionally impeded FEMAS success.

Everyone knows that...how come you dont?

 

[GuyPinestra]

Seems to me that the great ultra advocates of states rights tried all this once before and they got their asses kicked.
It was a good thing that the president of the UNITED STATES back then was a compasionate man. Maybe it was to bad he didn't go with, to the victor goes the spoils.
For those who seem to be such strong proponents of the Consitution...you sure seem to forget quite a bit of how it reads.
Refresh your memory.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
With all of the posts from the teaparty or rightwingers there is one common thread.
MY money.
Everything else is up for grabs

So the Preamble is good but the rest of it isn't? Really?

 

[GoneBezerk]

I'm wondering what the Paulbots in the states that got ravaged by tornados think of their infamous leader now.

They now see an old rich white guy telling them to suck it up and rebuild without the help of the Feds. Rebuilding a town is so easy according to the shakey old man on TV, just get charity donations.

 

[GuyPinestra]

General Welfare clause.

Show where any court has EVER upheld your bizarre interpretation that Natural Disasters don't fall within the scope of General Welfare

I don't believe your ridiculous proposition has ever been before a court, but if you're looking for precedent I can help you...

In 1893, when a massive drought afflicted Texas farmers, Cleveland categorically refused to grant federal aid to the victims. He issued an eloquent written justification for his decision:

“I do not believe that the power and duty of the General Government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit...The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune...Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthen the bond of a common brotherhood.”

Cleveland’s words skillfully represent the contrast between the effects brought about by the voluntary generosity of private parties and those created through the exercise of the coercive powers of government. Private individuals, when not hindered by government intervention, have a choice in how to allocate their funds among the various purposes that they deem to be of importance.

Sorry....but your argument is a FAIL

Grover Cleveland was acting as chief executive. The fact that he told flood victims to fuck themselves has no Constitutional bearing

It was a drought, not a flood, and if there was no constitutional authority then, there is no Constitutional authority NOW.

 

[boilermaker55]

Seems to me that the great ultra advocates of states rights tried all this once before and they got their asses kicked.
It was a good thing that the president of the UNITED STATES back then was a compasionate man. Maybe it was to bad he didn't go with, to the victor goes the spoils.
For those who seem to be such strong proponents of the Consitution...you sure seem to forget quite a bit of how it reads.
Refresh your memory.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
With all of the posts from the teaparty or rightwingers there is one common thread.
MY money.
Everything else is up for grabs

That's a lie.

All the gov't cuts we push for, we want you to get the same tax reduction benefits that we get. I don't want you to be forced to pay for certain gov't programs i like, which is exactly what you promote and advocate for. You want me to pay for what you want, I want you to receive the same tax deduction that I get.

What's the more selfish position there?

It is more selfish for those who have the means and the power to take more are selfish.
That is the true selfish attitude among this country.
Really, if President Lincoln had taken everything from the south like the rightwingers and neo cons like to think today, it so would have been a different story in this land.
Imagine! Former black slaves having the ground given to them that those awful slave owners had in their possession. TO THE VICTOR GOES THE SPOILS!
Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need.

 

[GuyPinestra]

The people of IN say "fuck you."

Tornadoes wipe out two Indiana towns, kill at least three - San Jose Mercury News

Oh, so YOU are going to pick and choose which US cities get Federal support despite taxpayers in each city donating to the Federal pot.

A natural disaster can be equal to an invasion of a state. If LA is destroyed by an earthquake I would love to see your ass on TV telling them to suck it up and pay for it themselves.

The Feds are supposed to keep the states in line and to protect/help them when needed to keep the union functioning. The United STATES get dysfunctional if one state falls apart due to an invasion by foreigners or a natural disaster.

A hurricane wiping out Miami, a tornado wiping out Dallas, an earthquake wiping out LA....are all situations the FEDERAL Govt needs to step up and support the Americans harmed by something NOT THEIR FAULT.

You fucking losertarian kooks have tied someone getting Govt handouts for fucking up their lives with drugs/crime with someone's life being ruined by a tornado. You are just fucking nuts....

So now the goalposts get moved from localized tornado damage to entire metropolitan areas getting wiped out? You really should wipe the drool off of your chin...

Not at all, I was just commenting on your obvious changing of the parameters of the conversation.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Seems to me that the great ultra advocates of states rights tried all this once before and they got their asses kicked.
It was a good thing that the president of the UNITED STATES back then was a compasionate man. Maybe it was to bad he didn't go with, to the victor goes the spoils.
For those who seem to be such strong proponents of the Consitution...you sure seem to forget quite a bit of how it reads.
Refresh your memory.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
With all of the posts from the teaparty or rightwingers there is one common thread.
MY money.
Everything else is up for grabs

That's a lie.

All the gov't cuts we push for, we want you to get the same tax reduction benefits that we get. I don't want you to be forced to pay for certain gov't programs i like, which is exactly what you promote and advocate for. You want me to pay for what you want, I want you to receive the same tax deduction that I get.

What's the more selfish position there?

It is more selfish for those who have the means and the power to take more are selfish.
That is the true selfish attitude among this country.
Really, if President Lincoln had taken everything from the south like the rightwingers and neo cons like to think today, it so would have been a different story in this land.
Imagine! Former black slaves having the ground given to them that those awful slave owners had in their possession. TO THE VICTOR GOES THE SPOILS!
Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need.

Giving is of your own free will, taxation for unConstitutional purposes, even if they're GOOD purposes, is THEFT.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Kooks like you don't understand the Feds have a role on different levels depending on the siutation from a foregin invasion to a tornado that wipes out a small IN town.

FEMA people no matter how incompetent should be there supporting the state and city officials as well as NGOs and insurance companies to rebuild the town while helping the people live until they can find a new place to sleep at night.

The Feds also have a responsibility to prevent a nuclear weapon made in Iran from blowing up NYC....but you must think that is the responsibility of the NYPD too, dumbfuck.

The people of IN say "fuck you."

Tornadoes wipe out two Indiana towns, kill at least three - San Jose Mercury News

Oh, so YOU are going to pick and choose which US cities get Federal support despite taxpayers in each city donating to the Federal pot.

So now the goalposts get moved from localized tornado damage to entire metropolitan areas getting wiped out? You really should wipe the drool off of your chin...

Not at all, I was just commenting on your obvious changing of the parameters of the conversation.