Should atheists or progressives be allowed to hold office?

[guno]

Theodore Roosevelt did not use a Bible when taking the oath in 1901. Both John Quincy Adams and Franklin Pierce swore on a book of law, with the intention that they were swearing on the constitution.

There is no requirement that a Bible, or any book, be used. Just that the President has to take the oath, presumably before witnesses, as specified in the Constitution - "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." Everything else is just tradition.

 

[JimBowie1958]

And yet those priests have a faith. Where did their moral code spring from?

Their moral system came from a lack of faith and none of them actually still believed in God.

That is the key problem with Catholicism today, they have allowed too many priests into the priesthood that are atheists. Some have them make a symbolic claim of faith, but they do not believe in a God who intervenes in our universe; i.e. they think of God in the same way they think of Superman..

 

[JimBowie1958]

Look, religious politician don't exactly have a spotless record of their own, and besides, "If the impulse and the opportunity be suffered to coincide, we well know that neither moral nor religious motives can be relied on as an adequate control. They are not found to be such on the injustice and violence of individuals, and lose their efficacy in proportion to the number combined together"

The record of 'believing' office holders in America is not spotless for damned sure, but it does compare very favorably with the record of atheistic governments in the 20th century in Hitlers Germany, Stalins Russia and Moas China.

And many of those so-called believers in the USA are at minimum simply willing to take the oath but that does not guarantee that they believe in a God who might exact justice on their souls. It simply means that their associates are not fellows who are also atheists and lacking in moral values systems and so will not hold such an oath against them.

 

[JimBowie1958]

And yet those priests have a faith. Where did their moral code spring from?

Their moral system came from a lack of faith and none of them actually still believed in God.

That is the key problem with Catholicism today, they have allowed too many priests into the priesthood that are atheists. Some have them make a symbolic claim of faith, but they do not believe in a God who intervenes in our universe; i.e. they think of God in the same way they think of Superman..

Lakhota, that you laugh at hypocrits in the Catholic church who pose as priests though they have no fiath just demonstrates how comfortable you are with such liars and hypocrisy in general.

Why is it that you are so comfortable with hypocrital liars? You are surrounded by them day to day?

lol

 

[Lakhota]

Look, religious politician don't exactly have a spotless record of their own, and besides, "If the impulse and the opportunity be suffered to coincide, we well know that neither moral nor religious motives can be relied on as an adequate control. They are not found to be such on the injustice and violence of individuals, and lose their efficacy in proportion to the number combined together"

The record of 'believing' office holders in America is not spotless for damned sure, but it does compare very favorably with the record of atheistic governments in the 20th century in Hitlers Germany, Stalins Russia and Moas China.

And many of those so-called believers in the USA are at minimum simply willing to take the oath but that does not guarantee that they believe in a God who might exact justice on their souls. It simply means that their associates are not fellows who are also atheists and lacking in moral values systems and so will not hold such an oath against them.

As with many today (including those who slaughtered Native Americans), Hitler thought of himself as a Christian. Not surprising, because the God depicted in the Old Testament was an evil bastard.

Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism (quotes from Mein Kampf)

Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country. This text presents selected quotes from the infamous anti-Semite himself.

 

[Nosmo King]

And yet those priests have a faith. Where did their moral code spring from?

Their moral system came from a lack of faith and none of them actually still believed in God.

That is the key problem with Catholicism today, they have allowed too many priests into the priesthood that are atheists. Some have them make a symbolic claim of faith, but they do not believe in a God who intervenes in our universe; i.e. they think of God in the same way they think of Superman..

How can we possibly recognize the faithful? Sack cloth and ashes? Are they rubbing gravel in their hair?

Or could it be in your world, we can recognize the faithful by their voting records?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Look, religious politician don't exactly have a spotless record of their own, and besides, "If the impulse and the opportunity be suffered to coincide, we well know that neither moral nor religious motives can be relied on as an adequate control. They are not found to be such on the injustice and violence of individuals, and lose their efficacy in proportion to the number combined together"

The record of 'believing' office holders in America is not spotless for damned sure, but it does compare very favorably with the record of atheistic governments in the 20th century in Hitlers Germany, Stalins Russia and Moas China.

And many of those so-called believers in the USA are at minimum simply willing to take the oath but that does not guarantee that they believe in a God who might exact justice on their souls. It simply means that their associates are not fellows who are also atheists and lacking in moral values systems and so will not hold such an oath against them.

As with many today (including those who slaughtered Native Americans), Hitler thought of himself as a Christian. Not surprising, because the God depicted in the Old Testament was an evil bastard.

Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism (quotes from Mein Kampf)

Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country. This text presents selected quotes from the infamous anti-Semite himself.

Hitlers propaganda book is not a reliable reflection of who Hitler was in his heart of hearts.

He was a shit swilling atheist dog. Period.

 

[Agit8r]

And many of those so-called believers in the USA are at minimum simply willing to take the oath but that does not guarantee that they believe in a God who might exact justice on their souls.

Right. Because they are "forgiven"

 

[Agit8r]

Look, religious politician don't exactly have a spotless record of their own, and besides, "If the impulse and the opportunity be suffered to coincide, we well know that neither moral nor religious motives can be relied on as an adequate control. They are not found to be such on the injustice and violence of individuals, and lose their efficacy in proportion to the number combined together"

The record of 'believing' office holders in America is not spotless for damned sure, but it does compare very favorably with the record of atheistic governments in the 20th century in Hitlers Germany, Stalins Russia and Moas China.

And many of those so-called believers in the USA are at minimum simply willing to take the oath but that does not guarantee that they believe in a God who might exact justice on their souls. It simply means that their associates are not fellows who are also atheists and lacking in moral values systems and so will not hold such an oath against them.

As with many today (including those who slaughtered Native Americans), Hitler thought of himself as a Christian. Not surprising, because the God depicted in the Old Testament was an evil bastard.

Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism (quotes from Mein Kampf)

Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country. This text presents selected quotes from the infamous anti-Semite himself.

Hitlers propaganda book is not a reliable reflection of who Hitler was in his heart of hearts.

He was a shit swilling atheist dog. Period.

So who is to decide whether a person is a fake believer or real? Would the Supreme Court decide that?

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Elected officials have to take an oath to uphold the Constitution.

Atheists and progressives reject the Founders and believe that humans have no inherant rights beyond what the state decides on a whim; since they don't believe in the Constitution why should they be allowed to run for office?

Wow, this one is extra stupid. See the fucking Constitution, bitch.

Yep. O/P is too stoopid to realize that the Constitution protects a citizen from being prejudged by religion or race, or lack of religion. It's called the First Amendment. (First Amendment)

Lol, now the atheistic cretins are engaging in back slapping ataboys to encourage each other. Pretty much signals that they realize they lost the debate.

Atheism is no more protected by the First Amendment than is pedophilia.

WTF? You're trying to compare a belief system to a criminal act? You know someone has lost the debate when they go to such illogical extremes.

Atheism is not a belief system. It is an act of stupidity and nothing more.

That's your neanderthal opinion based on a bunch of old Jewish fairy tales written hundreds of years after Jesus died.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Look, religious politician don't exactly have a spotless record of their own, and besides, "If the impulse and the opportunity be suffered to coincide, we well know that neither moral nor religious motives can be relied on as an adequate control. They are not found to be such on the injustice and violence of individuals, and lose their efficacy in proportion to the number combined together"

The record of 'believing' office holders in America is not spotless for damned sure, but it does compare very favorably with the record of atheistic governments in the 20th century in Hitlers Germany, Stalins Russia and Moas China.

And many of those so-called believers in the USA are at minimum simply willing to take the oath but that does not guarantee that they believe in a God who might exact justice on their souls. It simply means that their associates are not fellows who are also atheists and lacking in moral values systems and so will not hold such an oath against them.

As with many today (including those who slaughtered Native Americans), Hitler thought of himself as a Christian. Not surprising, because the God depicted in the Old Testament was an evil bastard.

Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism (quotes from Mein Kampf)

Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country. This text presents selected quotes from the infamous anti-Semite himself.

Hitlers propaganda book is not a reliable reflection of who Hitler was in his heart of hearts.

He was a shit swilling atheist dog. Period.

So who is to decide whether a person is a fake believer or real? Would the Supreme Court decide that?

In order to get into office, politicians lie. About everything.

 

[FA_Q2]

It is sad that you think you can degenerate an entire group of people because they do not agree with your worldview.

I did not degenerate them, they degenerate themselves with their simplistic and foolish values systems based on the nonsense of a godless universe..

You are a worthless piece of shit child that requires someone else to define your morality for you since you lack the moral fortitude to see what is right and wrong.
But remember - I am not degenerating you or calling you names - you degenerate yourself with a simplistic and foolish value system based on a 2000 year old text and an antiquated hierarchy decided for you.

Notice how the above statement is utter bullshit. Yes, it is exactly equivalent to your bullshit. Now you do not even want to take responsibility for your asinine words.

Everything you just said applies directly to you - the one acting like the deranged narcissist. Not only have you miserably failed to address a single point - including the fact the founders own words show that you are incorrect - but you have resulted to pointless name calling.

The Founding Fathers did not consider atheism to be a religion, dumbass.

And such has never been stated. Care to try another straw man or are insults the best you can do. Considering your continued use of them and continued attempts to avoid the points presented I am think that very well may be the case.

 

[Syriusly]

A religious standard for office holders. Who here claims to be constitutional literalists?

No one is claiming that, genius.

We are talking a moral standard that atheists by definition cannot meet because they have no basis whatsoever for an objective moral standard, as not allowing pedophiles to hold office would not be a religious standard.

lol, you libtards are just too fucking stupid.

So you consider Thomas Jefferson a 'libtard'? Well I am not surprised, since that is your name for anyone you disagree with.

Unlike religious zealots like you- Jefferson recognized and specifically noted what an 'idle'- or lazy claim your post is.

If we did a good act merely from the love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? It is idle to say, as some do, that no such thing exists. We have the same evidence of the fact as of most of those we act on, to wit: their own affirmations, and their reasonings in support of them. I have observed, indeed, generally, that while in Protestant countries the defections from the Platonic Christianity of the priests is to Deism, in Catholic countries they are to Atheism. Diderot, D'Alembert, D'Holbach, Condorcet, are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than love of God.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814

Not surprising that theorcratic religious zealots like you call for Americans to ignore the Constitution and ask everyone to accept your bigoted interpretation of not only the Constitution, but of what you think Jefferson thought- rather than his actual words.

 

[Syriusly]

More Thomas Jefferson
Our civil rights have no dependence upon our religious opinions more than our opinions in physics or geometry.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. Papers, 2:545

And yet I am sure that Jefferson would agree that we should not vote for idiots that deny Newtonian physics or Euclidian geometry.

I am sure that Jefferson would tell people to vote for who they believed in- and not what religious zealots like you tell them to do.

I am not surprised that you refer to the Founding Fathers but steadfastly refuse to accept what they actually said.

Our civil rights have no dependence upon our religious opinions more than our opinions in physics or geometry.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. Papers, 2:545

You would deny the civil rights of those who don't believe in your fairy tales. Thomas Jefferson wouldn't.

 

[Syriusly]

Elected officials have to take an oath to uphold the Constitution.

Atheists and progressives reject the Founders and believe that humans have no inherant rights beyond what the state decides on a whim; since they don't believe in the Constitution why should they be allowed to run for office?

Wow, this one is extra stupid. See the fucking Constitution, bitch.

Yep. O/P is too stoopid to realize that the Constitution protects a citizen from being prejudged by religion or race, or lack of religion. It's called the First Amendment. (First Amendment)

Lol, now the atheistic cretins are engaging in back slapping ataboys to encourage each other. Pretty much signals that they realize they lost the debate.

Atheism is no more protected by the First Amendment than is pedophilia.

WTF? You're trying to compare a belief system to a criminal act? You know someone has lost the debate when they go to such illogical extremes.

Atheism is not a belief system. It is an act of stupidity and nothing more.

Atheism is not a belief system- it is no more than not believing in fairy tales. Atheism is to religion as not collecting stamps is to stamp collecting.

As I pointed out repeatedly, our founding fathers explicitly stated that lack of religious belief is as protected as religious beliefs are- but being the religious Fascist that you are, you want to deny Americans our Constitutional rights based upon your own religious intolerance.

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual.
Jefferson

The proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right.
-- Thomas Jefferson, "Statute for Religious Freedom," 1779. Papers, 2:546

[N]o man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1779),

 

[Syriusly]

Elected officials have to take an oath to uphold the Constitution.

Atheists and progressives reject the Founders and believe that humans have no inherant rights beyond what the state decides on a whim; since they don't believe in the Constitution why should they be allowed to run for office?

Wow, this one is extra stupid. See the fucking Constitution, bitch.

Yep. O/P is too stoopid to realize that the Constitution protects a citizen from being prejudged by religion or race, or lack of religion. It's called the First Amendment. (First Amendment)

Lol, now the atheistic cretins are engaging in back slapping ataboys to encourage each other. Pretty much signals that they realize they lost the debate.

Atheism is no more protected by the First Amendment than is pedophilia.

WTF? You're trying to compare a belief system to a criminal act? You know someone has lost the debate when they go to such illogical extremes.

Atheism is not a belief system. It is an act of stupidity and nothing more.

Belief in fairy tales is for children and the willingly gullible.

 

[Syriusly]

[
Atheism is no more protected by the First Amendment than is pedophilia.

The Fascist theocrats like you see no difference between a lack in belief in your fairy tales and child molestation.

That is how low your morals have sunk- clearly because of your bizarre belief in fairy tales.

 

[Syriusly]

Elected officials have to take an oath to uphold the Constitution.

Atheists and progressives reject the Founders and believe that humans have no inherant rights beyond what the state decides on a whim; since they don't believe in the Constitution why should they be allowed to run for office?

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
-- from U.S. Constitution; Article VI

How does an atheist that believes in no God take an oath in all seriousness that entails swearing to the God that they do not believe in?

They cannot possibly do so and therefore they are unfit for any office that requires such an oath be administered.

I guess you should ask the Founding Fathers for clarification- since they had no problem with it.

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
-- from U.S. Constitution; Article VI

The Founding Fathers- Jefferson and Adams and Madison- were busy crafting a document to prevent oppressive theocrats like you from passing laws requiring Americans to worship the god you chose for them- and denying the Civil rights of those who dared not believe in your specific brand of fairy tale.

I have sworn several oaths in my life time- never once swearing on some fairy tale guy in the sky- and I have upheld my oath every time.

And unlike you- I understand and believe in the Constitution.

All of it.

 

[Syriusly]

Look, religious politician don't exactly have a spotless record of their own, and besides, "If the impulse and the opportunity be suffered to coincide, we well know that neither moral nor religious motives can be relied on as an adequate control. They are not found to be such on the injustice and violence of individuals, and lose their efficacy in proportion to the number combined together"

The record of 'believing' office holders in America is not spotless for damned sure, but it does compare very favorably with the record of atheistic governments in the 20th century in Hitlers Germany, Stalins Russia and Moas China.

And many of those so-called believers in the USA are at minimum simply willing to take the oath but that does not guarantee that they believe in a God who might exact justice on their souls. It simply means that their associates are not fellows who are also atheists and lacking in moral values systems and so will not hold such an oath against them.

As with many today (including those who slaughtered Native Americans), Hitler thought of himself as a Christian. Not surprising, because the God depicted in the Old Testament was an evil bastard.

Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism (quotes from Mein Kampf)

Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country. This text presents selected quotes from the infamous anti-Semite himself.

Hitlers propaganda book is not a reliable reflection of who Hitler was in his heart of hearts.

He was a shit swilling atheist dog. Period.

Once again you insist we believe your interpretation- now telling us to ignore Hitler's words, in addition to the words of the Constitution and the words of Jefferson and Adams.

If we just made you Pope of the United States- you could have everything your way.