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Yes or no, there is no way to know what will happen to a child when a major advocate is removed from the game. The church has a lot of infrastructure to offer the children also, and these other agencies do not. Officials are highly likely to become frustrated and shortchange the kids.
Try again.
Once lost to the system, children won't be able to.
You have no basis for that.
How about common sense, after a tremendous resource in Catholic Charities is lost?
Promises mean nothing. You said yourself in post #122, when it comes to adoption, Americans "don't want kids that are older."
Illinois Catholic Charities Foster Care Dispute A Matter Of Law And Faith
ST. LOUIS -- In large part due to their faith, Mark Zartman and Beth Banuelos swung open their families' doors to children from broken homes in southern Illinois. Over the years, some two dozen kids have found refuge with the Zartmans and about 50 with the Banueloses. ...
Both families fostered children through Catholic Charities, but they would have to work with a different agency to continue partnering with the state if the nonprofit ultimately loses a legal fight. And they've chosen different paths – Banuelos to continue, Zartman to walk away.
"We prayed about it, talked about it. Sometimes you have to take a stand, and sometimes (it's) hard," said Zartman, 51, a member of a Pentecostal church.
"I'm torn," said Banuelos, 60, a Lutheran. "If we turn our backs on working with another agency, where is it going to leave the kids?" ...
"We're the most-needed program in southern Illinois," said Gary Huelsmann, executive director of Catholic Social Services of Southern Illinois, a Belleville diocese entity that handles about 630 foster children for the state.
"People do this out of senses of love and care, and they very much want to do it with an agency that has strong Christian values," he said. "We have a tremendous amount of loyalty."
Harry Wildfeuer, a spokesman for the Joliet diocese, which works with 340 foster households, said he believes the number of families opting out would be "considerable."
I'm going to need to see you exhibit common sense.
From your article: Catholic Charities is handling about 2,000 of the state's 15,400 foster care and adoption cases.
The state already is beginning the process of transferring children in Catholic Charities care to the nearly four dozen other licensed child-welfare agencies in Illinois and expects to find the families it needs, said Department of Children and Family Services spokesman Kendall Marlowe. The effort is in a case-by-case review stage, though transitioning could be complete by this fall, he said.
"We can transition those 2,000 cases to other agencies," he said. "The notion (Catholic Charities) is promoting that somehow they're indispensable and no one can fill the void just is not the case."
You are wrong. That is the case.Quit making shit up. You don't have that anywhere in what I have said.
To most Catholics, there is no difference between the FLDS church or gays. They probably believe gays are worse. Why should your beliefs be respected and not the church's?
If your agency receives public funding it may not discriminate.
Period.
That is the issue.
You don't have a case.
No. You are.
This has been productive. Your quite the fact free poster.
You have not posted a single fact or anything resembling the truth to support your claim, presumably because you know it is false.
Why looky here--Black Jesus allows churches receiving public funds to discriminate.
Administration Getting Heat for Public Funds Going to Religious Groups That Discriminate in Hiring
Why look Charitable choice allows churches to discriminate just so long as it is not for the beneficiary of those public funds
Religious Rights New Republic
Even gay rights group say you are wrong Debunking The Four Most Commonly Cited Anti-Equality Horror Stories Equality Matters
Now when you can produce some scant evidence to support your false assertions, get back to me. Until then, don't waste time responding if you are not willing to spend time telling anything resembling truth.
That is why I said promises like you continue to give and these mean nothing. Government promises are made primarily to make it look good. Children are already being taken out of caring homes and are losing out. You asked for proof, and I gave it to you.
That is why I said promises like you continue to give and these mean nothing. Government promises are made primarily to make it look good. Children are already being taken out of caring homes and are losing out. You asked for proof, and I gave it to you.
They aren't taken. Don't twist it. The reality is that the Catholic Charities are irrelevant and are not anywhere close to being as necessary in this as you seem to think. The rest of what you wrote is bullshit. You know it and I know it.
Peter Breen of the Thomas More Society described the "dismantling" of the charities' foster care ministry as "a tragic end to 90 years of foster care service by some of the most effective child welfare agencies in Illinois."
"The Religious Freedom Protection and Civil Union Act only passed after specific assurances that the law would not impact the work of religious social service agencies," Breen said. "Specific protections for these agencies were written into the law, but unfortunately, Illinois officials refused to abide by those protections."
Last month, state Senator Kyle McCarter (R-Lebanon) filed legislation that would amend the state's civil union law to allow for the charities to continue to not serve same-sex couples in licensing foster and adoptive parents on the state's behalf. The measure, SB2495, was cosponsored by every active Republican State Senator, plus one Democratic lawmaker: William Haine (D-Alton), Chicago Pride reported.
That is why I said promises like you continue to give and these mean nothing. Government promises are made primarily to make it look good. Children are already being taken out of caring homes and are losing out. You asked for proof, and I gave it to you.
They aren't taken. Don't twist it. The reality is that the Catholic Charities are irrelevant and are not anywhere close to being as necessary in this as you seem to think. The rest of what you wrote is bullshit. You know it and I know it.
You aren't relating to the thousands of happy families adopted children have found with Catholic Charities. If there are so many agencies that will adopt to gays, why do those families and the thousands in the future that can continue to give happy homes have to pay the price for across-the-board bureaucratic, impersonal decisions? Foster children will lose the opportunity to go to loving families who will end up excluded due to religious discrimination. No child can lose by continuing the long-standing policy, and the church can continue its charitable service to the public, without their religious freedom being trampled.
No gay is being prevented from adopting.
If people care enough to maintain these basic rights, they can, evidently, as seen in these bills, SB2495 and HB3942:
Illinois Catholic Charities Drop Lawsuit Against State Over Gay Adoption Foster Care
Peter Breen of the Thomas More Society described the "dismantling" of the charities' foster care ministry as "a tragic end to 90 years of foster care service by some of the most effective child welfare agencies in Illinois."
"The Religious Freedom Protection and Civil Union Act only passed after specific assurances that the law would not impact the work of religious social service agencies," Breen said. "Specific protections for these agencies were written into the law, but unfortunately, Illinois officials refused to abide by those protections."
Last month, state Senator Kyle McCarter (R-Lebanon) filed legislation that would amend the state's civil union law to allow for the charities to continue to not serve same-sex couples in licensing foster and adoptive parents on the state's behalf. The measure, SB2495, was cosponsored by every active Republican State Senator, plus one Democratic lawmaker: William Haine (D-Alton), Chicago Pride reported.
And with another bill, they kept on trying for more than a year...
IL HB3942 2011-2012 97th General Assembly LegiScan
They were killed because of the same old politics, where a democratic majority gets its way by basically all voting against it. Although, it can be done, but more people that care are needed.
They aren't taken. Don't twist it. The reality is that the Catholic Charities are irrelevant and are not anywhere close to being as necessary in this as you seem to think. The rest of what you wrote is bullshit. You know it and I know it.
They aren't taken. Don't twist it. The reality is that the Catholic Charities are irrelevant and are not anywhere close to being as necessary in this as you seem to think. The rest of what you wrote is bullshit. You know it and I know it.
Well there you go. That's the ultimate goal of the LGBT Agenda. Kids who rely on Catholic Charities be damned..
The fact is that the Catholic Church has many orphanages all over the world and this country. Children rely on these institutions. You're all heart towards the kids [fill in LGBT advocate name here]...
Well there you go. That's the ultimate goal of the anti-gay agenda. Kids who could be adopted by loving parents who happen to be gay be damned.
The fact is that homosexual parents adopt children, and provide loving and supportive homes. Children rely on these homes.
But for the anti-gay activists- children are just a pawn to use to attack homosexuals.
They aren't taken. Don't twist it. The reality is that the Catholic Charities are irrelevant and are not anywhere close to being as necessary in this as you seem to think. The rest of what you wrote is bullshit. You know it and I know it.
Well there you go. That's the ultimate goal of the LGBT Agenda. Kids who rely on Catholic Charities be damned..
The fact is that the Catholic Church has many orphanages all over the world and this country. Children rely on these institutions. You're all heart towards the kids [fill in LGBT advocate name here]...
You're the one wanting to force catholic charities to close their doors and put children in the hands of what, LGBT orphanges I suppose?The fact is that in the US they are replaceable and the Catholic Charities was smart enough to close the agencies and allow the other agencies to continue to handle the cases. You attempt to use children as a weapon.
I'd like to think that is a conspiracy theory. But after laws in California forcing kids to worship the known-pedophile Harvey Milk's sexuality on a special day in schools, anything is possible with the cult of LGBT. The machiavellian-law in CA where minors cannot get therapy to change their sexual orientation if they were molested by gays and imprinted with those compulsions [while all manner of therapies and programs to go from straight to gay exist without incident] is another example of the extremes this cult will go to in order to get into [and STAY in] the lives of children.Churches are not the only adoption agencies that no longer provide adoptions because of mandates to adopt into gay homes. Countries who used to provide adoptable children no longer do so. Russia doesn't. Eastern Europe doesn't. presidunce obola has further reduced the number of adoptable children by prohibiting the adoption of "snowflake" children. Those are the unwanted embryos created by invitro fertilization. They used to be implanted into women who could not conceive. The government quietly ended that practice.
The result is far fewer children available for adoption. If gay families MUST be satisfied the children will have to be taken from intact families. Mothers and fathers will just have to be declared unfit and their children taken from them to make the gay mafia happy.
You're the one wanting to force catholic charities to close their doors and put children in the hands of what, LGBT orphanges I suppose?The fact is that in the US they are replaceable and the Catholic Charities was smart enough to close the agencies and allow the other agencies to continue to handle the cases. You attempt to use children as a weapon.
Yeah, OK. how about post #168? Care to reply to that one? Maybe one of your orphanages could be called "The Harvey Milk Memorial Orphanage". It could specialize in "young waifs with substance abuse problems".. [refer to page 180 of Milk's biography The Mayor of Castro Street: The Life and Times of Harvey Milk.]
And if you don't have the time, I'll put that quote here:
"Harvey Milk always had a penchant for young waifs with substance abuse problems."
What about post number #168? Here let's put that back into the actual paragraph on page 180:
It will start on 179-
"The central element of Harvey's campaign appearances, however, were always the last paragraphs of his hope speech. By now it had several permutations. Sometimes it was a boy from Des Moines, sometimes he was from Dayton, but always there was a young person out there that would hear of Milk's success and know that even though he was gay, and somehow different, he had a chance too. "It was funny," Frank Robinson later reflected. "He had so much hope for the generic you and so much fatalism about his own personal life."
It is page 9 and you have failed to make a legit argument.
What about post number #168? Here let's put that back into the actual paragraph on page 180:
It will start on 179-
"The central element of Harvey's campaign appearances, however, were always the last paragraphs of his hope speech. By now it had several permutations. Sometimes it was a boy from Des Moines, sometimes he was from Dayton, but always there was a young person out there that would hear of Milk's success and know that even though he was gay, and somehow different, he had a chance too. "It was funny," Frank Robinson later reflected. "He had so much hope for the generic you and so much fatalism about his own personal life."
It is page 9 and you have failed to make a legit argument.
Where's the quote in that paragraph? Put it into context. I do not see "Harvey Milk always had a penchant for young waifs with substance abuse problems". Please place that in context. I'd enjoy that. And while you're mulling through his biography, please quote from the parts that discuss his sexual relationship with the minor Jack Mckinley. I'd especially like you to quote the part where he went into a bank with his boy-toy, professed to be his guardian also and was trying to get some account opened for him. Let me know when you get those quotes, OK?
That's because your quotes are not on page 180 or page 179. Why don't you get off your ass and actually read the book. Get back to me on that.
You still don't have a legit argument.
That's because your quotes are not on page 180 or page 179. Why don't you get off your ass and actually read the book. Get back to me on that.
You still don't have a legit argument.
I'd say second-guessing creating legal situations where a group could adopt orphans who 100% have never denounced their pedophile messiah, or their sober lewd-sex acts "pride" parades where they invite kids to watch and participate, is a "legit argument". And as you can see by the poll above, over 80 percent agree with me...
..80%....hmmm....there's that number range again....weird...
That's because your quotes are not on page 180 or page 179. Why don't you get off your ass and actually read the book. Get back to me on that.
You still don't have a legit argument.
I'd say second-guessing creating legal situations where a group could adopt orphans who 100% have never denounced their pedophile messiah, or their sober lewd-sex acts "pride" parades where they invite kids to watch and participate, is a "legit argument". And as you can see by the poll above, over 80 percent agree with me...
..80%....hmmm....there's that number range again....weird...
That is why I said promises like you continue to give and these mean nothing. Government promises are made primarily to make it look good. Children are already being taken out of caring homes and are losing out. You asked for proof, and I gave it to you.
They aren't taken. Don't twist it. The reality is that the Catholic Charities are irrelevant and are not anywhere close to being as necessary in this as you seem to think. The rest of what you wrote is bullshit. You know it and I know it.
You aren't relating to the thousands of happy families adopted children have found with Catholic Charities. If there are so many agencies that will adopt to gays, why do those families and the thousands in the future that can continue to give happy homes have to pay the price for across-the-board bureaucratic, impersonal decisions? Foster children will lose the opportunity to go to loving families who will end up excluded due to religious discrimination. No child can lose by continuing the long-standing policy, and the church can continue its charitable service to the public, without their religious freedom being trampled.
No gay is being prevented from adopting.
If people care enough to maintain these basic rights, they can, evidently, as seen in these bills, SB2495 and HB3942:
Illinois Catholic Charities Drop Lawsuit Against State Over Gay Adoption Foster Care
Peter Breen of the Thomas More Society described the "dismantling" of the charities' foster care ministry as "a tragic end to 90 years of foster care service by some of the most effective child welfare agencies in Illinois."
"The Religious Freedom Protection and Civil Union Act only passed after specific assurances that the law would not impact the work of religious social service agencies," Breen said. "Specific protections for these agencies were written into the law, but unfortunately, Illinois officials refused to abide by those protections."
Last month, state Senator Kyle McCarter (R-Lebanon) filed legislation that would amend the state's civil union law to allow for the charities to continue to not serve same-sex couples in licensing foster and adoptive parents on the state's behalf. The measure, SB2495, was cosponsored by every active Republican State Senator, plus one Democratic lawmaker: William Haine (D-Alton), Chicago Pride reported.
And with another bill, they kept on trying for more than a year...
IL HB3942 2011-2012 97th General Assembly LegiScan
They were killed because of the same old politics, where a democratic majority gets its way by basically all voting against it. Although, it can be done, but more people that care are needed.
I see a lot of assuming on those happy families.
From a link within your link:
Among its arguments, Catholic Charities said it was entitled to a hearing over the canceled contracts because after 40 years of annually renewed pacts, the organization had developed a "property interest" in the work and should be able to object to state action.
Schmidt disagreed.
"Plaintiffs are not required by the state to perform these useful and beneficial services," the judge wrote. The work, he said, "is a desire of the plaintiffs to perform their mission as directed by their religious beliefs."
That is why I said promises like you continue to give and these mean nothing. Government promises are made primarily to make it look good. Children are already being taken out of caring homes and are losing out. You asked for proof, and I gave it to you.
They aren't taken. Don't twist it. The reality is that the Catholic Charities are irrelevant and are not anywhere close to being as necessary in this as you seem to think. The rest of what you wrote is bullshit. You know it and I know it.
You aren't relating to the thousands of happy families adopted children have found with Catholic Charities. If there are so many agencies that will adopt to gays, why do those families and the thousands in the future that can continue to give happy homes have to pay the price for across-the-board bureaucratic, impersonal decisions? Foster children will lose the opportunity to go to loving families who will end up excluded due to religious discrimination. No child can lose by continuing the long-standing policy, and the church can continue its charitable service to the public, without their religious freedom being trampled.
No gay is being prevented from adopting.
If people care enough to maintain these basic rights, they can, evidently, as seen in these bills, SB2495 and HB3942:
Illinois Catholic Charities Drop Lawsuit Against State Over Gay Adoption Foster Care
Peter Breen of the Thomas More Society described the "dismantling" of the charities' foster care ministry as "a tragic end to 90 years of foster care service by some of the most effective child welfare agencies in Illinois."
"The Religious Freedom Protection and Civil Union Act only passed after specific assurances that the law would not impact the work of religious social service agencies," Breen said. "Specific protections for these agencies were written into the law, but unfortunately, Illinois officials refused to abide by those protections."
Last month, state Senator Kyle McCarter (R-Lebanon) filed legislation that would amend the state's civil union law to allow for the charities to continue to not serve same-sex couples in licensing foster and adoptive parents on the state's behalf. The measure, SB2495, was cosponsored by every active Republican State Senator, plus one Democratic lawmaker: William Haine (D-Alton), Chicago Pride reported.
And with another bill, they kept on trying for more than a year...
IL HB3942 2011-2012 97th General Assembly LegiScan
They were killed because of the same old politics, where a democratic majority gets its way by basically all voting against it. Although, it can be done, but more people that care are needed.
I see a lot of assuming on those happy families.
From a link within your link:
Among its arguments, Catholic Charities said it was entitled to a hearing over the canceled contracts because after 40 years of annually renewed pacts, the organization had developed a "property interest" in the work and should be able to object to state action.
Schmidt disagreed.
"Plaintiffs are not required by the state to perform these useful and beneficial services," the judge wrote. The work, he said, "is a desire of the plaintiffs to perform their mission as directed by their religious beliefs."
Doesn't "property interest" here mean they believe the contracts were their "property" because they had them for such a long time? All they were asking for was a hearing. What's the point?
