Should Santorum and Gingrich drop out of this race?

[JoeB131]

Romney's record is a record of balancing--cutting spending and getting rid of a 1.5 billion dollar deficit--I just gave you the link.

Except that he didn't... His predecessors did that. Not him.

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You claim to be an atheist--yet somehow you're supporting Rick Santorum. You stated if he didn't win--you would vote for Barack Obama.
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You stated you hate Mormon's and would never vote for one--apparently because you had a personal grievance with someone who happened to be a Mormon..

I have a greivence with people who believe in a cult started by Child Molestors. Yeah. I'm not sure why you don't.

You do understand that one can be an atheist and still think some religions are more evil than others, right? Or do you think the Methodists and Whabbis are on the same moral plane?

When I had an encounter with several Mormons (not just one) back in 1983, what happened so creeped me out that I kept a mental note of it. I didn't actually start studying what they actually believed until years later, and was shocked and horrified by the craziness.


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At least be honest--other liberals are on this thread saying the same thing without all the smoke and mirrors attached.

It isn't the liberals you need to be worried about, snookums. They weren't going to vote for any Republican, anyway.

it's the conservatives and moderates who won't vote for Romney because he's a Mormon, a corporate bloodsucker, a flip-flopper or a dog torturer...

He has less chance than Santorum does, really. I don't think either one has much of a chance because the GOP has lost too many demographic groups it needs to win. Romney actually alienates a couple new ones.

 

[JoeB131]

I make a list so I know these are people I can't trust. I don't give you a second chance to stab me in the back.

And, apparently, if they're Mormons you don't give them a first chance, eh?

Nope. And you know what, if I find a cockroach in my dinner at a resturant, I never wait to find a second cockroach.

 

[dblack]

I make a list so I know these are people I can't trust. I don't give you a second chance to stab me in the back.

And, apparently, if they're Mormons you don't give them a first chance, eh?

Nope. And you know what, if I find a cockroach in my dinner at a resturant, I never wait to find a second cockroach.

I guess what I find so ugly about that sort of bigotry is that is mostly just lazy. Stereotypes have their place; for a quick judgement where you have no other information to go on, it's fine to rely on them. But when you do have other information, when you have the opportunity to find out the details of person's substance and values, and choose to willfully ignore everything but the stereotype you've built on one trait. That's just putting blinders on and deluding yourself.

 

[jillian]

Yes, along with Mitt Romney.

you do realize, kevin, that our constitution requires that people actually choose their candidates.... not the partisans of one uber fanatic cult of political followers, no matter how irrational.

so much for that whole paulian constitutional thing...

 

[JoeB131]

And, apparently, if they're Mormons you don't give them a first chance, eh?

Nope. And you know what, if I find a cockroach in my dinner at a resturant, I never wait to find a second cockroach.

I guess what I find so ugly about that sort of bigotry is that is mostly just lazy. Stereotypes have their place; for a quick judgement where you have no other information to go on, it's fine to rely on them. But when you do have other information, when you have the opportunity to find out the details of person's substance and values, and choose to willfully ignore everything but the stereotype you've built on one trait. That's just putting blinders on and deluding yourself.

Okay, let's look at that.

My opinion about Mormons was kind of nuetral until I had that wonderful encounter with them in 1983. Now, even though my mother was from the part of Missouri where they drove the Mormons out with angry mobs, I kept kind of an open mind about them. I really didn't know much about what they believed and kind of didn't care. After that encounter, I was really left with the impression that they are snakes in the grass.

That was long before I found out about their crazy beliefs and whacky history full of baptizing dead people, magic underpants and sister-wives. Then I was more like, "Holy Shit, no wonder they are so screwed up in the head."

It's a religion based on a scam started by a con man who wanted to take money from less smart people and screw little girls. It's contemptable in the extreme.

 

[Mac1958]

Doesn't matter, Joe.

All that matters to many is that he has an (R) after his name, and that's who will get their vote.

The rest is just academic.

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[Toro]

JoeyBoy here makes lists of Mormons and refuses to do business with them because they're Mormons. Can you imagine in this day and age someone blacklisting a whole group of people based on a common trait? What would you say if someone said they made lists of blacks or Jews, and refused to do business with them just because they were blacks or Jews?

Except Mormons aren't blacks or Jews. I mean, you keep offering this false equivlency and it just doesnt' fly.

Mormons all believe Monson is talking to God. That's their belief. You don't believe that, you aren't a Mormon anymore.

I make a list so I know these are people I can't trust. I don't give you a second chance to stab me in the back.

This equivalency certainly does fly. I'm sorry that you lost your mom to cancer. Truly, I am. Cancer has ravaged my family. And it sucks that some Mormons were bad to you a long time ago. But you don't paint everyone with the same brush because they are part of a group. You look at people with individuals. The EXACT same thing is/was said about Jews and blacks. "Can't trust Jews. They're cheap conniving sleazebags who'll screw you out of every penny you have." "Can't trust blacks. They're thieves and criminals. Just look at the rate of crimes committed by blacks." You are no different than the racist or anti-Semite. The only difference is that because something bad happened to YOU, you rationalize away your bigotry, trying to make it respectable. It's no different than getting mugged and put into the hospital by a group of black teens, then being racist against all blacks for the rest of your life.

And the "I've researched Mormonism, so I'm justified being a bigot" doesn't fly. Is Mormonism whacky? You bet. But so are all religions. It's only a matter of degree. But all people of all religions pick and choose what they follow in their religion. Mormons don't believe every single thing written in their book any more than Christians believe in every single thing in the bible. So to hold Mormons to a different standard is hypocrisy. But you hold them to a higher standard to rationalize away your bigotry.

 

[JoeB131]

This equivalency certainly does fly. I'm sorry that you lost your mom to cancer. Truly, I am. Cancer has ravaged my family. And it sucks that some Mormons were bad to you a long time ago. But you don't paint everyone with the same brush because they are part of a group. You look at people with individuals. The EXACT same thing is/was said about Jews and blacks. "Can't trust Jews. They're cheap conniving sleazebags who'll screw you out of every penny you have." "Can't trust blacks. They're thieves and criminals. Just look at the rate of crimes committed by blacks." You are no different than the racist or anti-Semite. The only difference is that because something bad happened to YOU, you rationalize away your bigotry, trying to make it respectable. It's no different than getting mugged and put into the hospital by a group of black teens, then being racist against all blacks for the rest of your life.

And the "I've researched Mormonism, so I'm justified being a bigot" doesn't fly. Is Mormonism whacky? You bet. But so are all religions. It's only a matter of degree. But all people of all religions pick and choose what they follow in their religion. Mormons don't believe every single thing written in their book any more than Christians believe in every single thing in the bible. So to hold Mormons to a different standard is hypocrisy. But you hold them to a higher standard to rationalize away your bigotry.

Sorry, man, you keep drawing these false equivlencies becasue you can't really rationalize your own position.

You don't think Joseph Smith was talking to God any more than I do. You just want to be treated like you are sooo fucking understanding of craziness.

I refuse to go there. I don't call evil, stupid and silly anything other than that because you've dressed them up in vestments and call them a religion.

All Mormons think Joseph Smith was talking to God, even though the evidence is he was a cheap con man who wanted to have sex with kids. if that's what Romney believes, it's an easy disqualifier for me.

Not tha the slimy business practices, dog torture and scummy flip flopping aren't also really good reason.

 

[Toro]

This equivalency certainly does fly. I'm sorry that you lost your mom to cancer. Truly, I am. Cancer has ravaged my family. And it sucks that some Mormons were bad to you a long time ago. But you don't paint everyone with the same brush because they are part of a group. You look at people with individuals. The EXACT same thing is/was said about Jews and blacks. "Can't trust Jews. They're cheap conniving sleazebags who'll screw you out of every penny you have." "Can't trust blacks. They're thieves and criminals. Just look at the rate of crimes committed by blacks." You are no different than the racist or anti-Semite. The only difference is that because something bad happened to YOU, you rationalize away your bigotry, trying to make it respectable. It's no different than getting mugged and put into the hospital by a group of black teens, then being racist against all blacks for the rest of your life.

And the "I've researched Mormonism, so I'm justified being a bigot" doesn't fly. Is Mormonism whacky? You bet. But so are all religions. It's only a matter of degree. But all people of all religions pick and choose what they follow in their religion. Mormons don't believe every single thing written in their book any more than Christians believe in every single thing in the bible. So to hold Mormons to a different standard is hypocrisy. But you hold them to a higher standard to rationalize away your bigotry.

Sorry, man, you keep drawing these false equivlencies becasue you can't really rationalize your own position.

You don't think Joseph Smith was talking to God any more than I do. You just want to be treated like you are sooo fucking understanding of craziness.

I refuse to go there. I don't call evil, stupid and silly anything other than that because you've dressed them up in vestments and call them a religion.

All Mormons think Joseph Smith was talking to God, even though the evidence is he was a cheap con man who wanted to have sex with kids. if that's what Romney believes, it's an easy disqualifier for me.

Not tha the slimy business practices, dog torture and scummy flip flopping aren't also really good reason.

This isn't about politics. You can vote for whomever you want for whatever reason you want. This is about discrimination and bigotry in every day life. And your discrimination is no different than discrimination against any other group, blacks and Jews included, no matter how much you try to rationalize. Blacklisting a whole group of people is reprehensible.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Of course the NO vote was going to win here.

The libs want Romney to be strung along by losers and the losers that support those losers won't give up.

Santorum could be the VP choice if he quit and shut up, but he has screwed that chance talking crap about Romney all for not.

The Newt will be a GOP outkast from now on, maybe only getting support from fringe groups and Shawn Hannity's show. His bobblehead should go away like Palin should go away, FOXNews is hurting their image propping them both up.

Ron Paul of course can go back to Texas and start a cult on some backwoods ranch, maybe that will get some here to follow him in drinking in the special Kool Aid before the Mayan doomsday....

 

[konradv]

Of course the NO vote was going to win here.

The libs want Romney to be strung along by losers and the losers that support those losers won't give up.

Santorum could be the VP choice if he quit and shut up, but he has screwed that chance talking crap about Romney all for not.

The Newt will be a GOP outkast from now on, maybe only getting support from fringe groups and Shawn Hannity's show. His bobblehead should go away like Palin should go away, FOXNews is hurting their image propping them both up.

Ron Paul of course can go back to Texas and start a cult on some backwoods ranch, maybe that will get some here to follow him in drinking in the special Kool Aid before the Mayan doomsday....

jeb bush..., Jeb Bush..., JEB BUSH..., JEB BUSH...

 

[GoneBezerk]

For VP maybe, POTUS....no.

We are not some Bush Kingdom where all the Bush men get to rule the USA. He is going to lay low for awhile until the hate for his older brother goes away and he loses some pounds himself for the TV cameras.

I would choose COL West over Jeb Bush for VP.

Of course the NO vote was going to win here.

The libs want Romney to be strung along by losers and the losers that support those losers won't give up.

Santorum could be the VP choice if he quit and shut up, but he has screwed that chance talking crap about Romney all for not.

The Newt will be a GOP outkast from now on, maybe only getting support from fringe groups and Shawn Hannity's show. His bobblehead should go away like Palin should go away, FOXNews is hurting their image propping them both up.

Ron Paul of course can go back to Texas and start a cult on some backwoods ranch, maybe that will get some here to follow him in drinking in the special Kool Aid before the Mayan doomsday....

jeb bush..., Jeb Bush..., JEB BUSH..., JEB BUSH...

 

[JoeB131]

This isn't about politics. You can vote for whomever you want for whatever reason you want. This is about discrimination and bigotry in every day life. And your discrimination is no different than discrimination against any other group, blacks and Jews included, no matter how much you try to rationalize. Blacklisting a whole group of people is reprehensible.

NO, it's pragmatic. I don't wait to find the second cockroach in my salad..

And you seem awfully upset about htis whole "I won't do business thing". YOu must think I run some vast enterprise where my lack of patronage is dooming or something.

When I stated I won't do business, it means I won't patronize their businesses, if I'm aware of them. For instance, when I was 16 or so, I used to love the original BattleStar Galatica Series. (Okay, I was 16 and didn't realize the difference between good Sci-Fi and bad Sci-Fi). I didn't realize that Glen Larson (or as they lovingly call him in Hollywood, Glen Larcency for stealing other people's ideas and credits) was an LDS who slipped in a bunch of Mormon subtext into the series.

That's the kind of suspicious crap I'm talking about.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course the NO vote was going to win here.

The libs want Romney to be strung along by losers and the losers that support those losers won't give up.

Santorum could be the VP choice if he quit and shut up, but he has screwed that chance talking crap about Romney all for not.

The Newt will be a GOP outkast from now on, maybe only getting support from fringe groups and Shawn Hannity's show. His bobblehead should go away like Palin should go away, FOXNews is hurting their image propping them both up.

Ron Paul of course can go back to Texas and start a cult on some backwoods ranch, maybe that will get some here to follow him in drinking in the special Kool Aid before the Mayan doomsday....

But what you get is the problem isn't these three guys, all of whom would have been eliminated after SC if Romney were a solid candidate.

I'll admit, if it weren't for Romney and my legendary dislike for LDS, I wouldn't give Santorum the time of day. Like the guy, but come on, he's yesterday's news.

Except now he's today's news because he's the last plausible Not Romney. And he's got no good reason to drop out. The following possiblities lie in wait for him.

1) He gets to a brokered convention, and he gets a shot at the nomination.
2) He gets to a brokered convention, and Romney offers him the Veep Slot.
3) Romney locks up the nomination, loses to Obama anyway, and Santorum is the automatic frontrunner for 2016.
4) In the meantime, he gets a big fat talk show contract to humanize himself on Prime TIme.

So, really, no good reason for Santorum to drop out. He wins no matter how this turns out for him.

 

[Amelia]

Of course the NO vote was going to win here.

The libs want Romney to be strung along by losers and the losers that support those losers won't give up.

Santorum could be the VP choice if he quit and shut up, but he has screwed that chance talking crap about Romney all for not.

The Newt will be a GOP outkast from now on, maybe only getting support from fringe groups and Shawn Hannity's show. His bobblehead should go away like Palin should go away, FOXNews is hurting their image propping them both up.

Ron Paul of course can go back to Texas and start a cult on some backwoods ranch, maybe that will get some here to follow him in drinking in the special Kool Aid before the Mayan doomsday....

But what you get is the problem isn't these three guys, all of whom would have been eliminated after SC if Romney were a solid candidate.

I'll admit, if it weren't for Romney and my legendary dislike for LDS, I wouldn't give Santorum the time of day. Like the guy, but come on, he's yesterday's news.

Except now he's today's news because he's the last plausible Not Romney. And he's got no good reason to drop out. The following possiblities lie in wait for him.

1) He gets to a brokered convention, and he gets a shot at the nomination.
2) He gets to a brokered convention, and Romney offers him the Veep Slot.
3) Romney locks up the nomination, loses to Obama anyway, and Santorum is the automatic frontrunner for 2016.
4) In the meantime, he gets a big fat talk show contract to humanize himself on Prime TIme.

So, really, no good reason for Santorum to drop out. He wins no matter how this turns out for him.

A baby from rape is a gift from God. A baby from rape is a gift from God. A baby from rape is a gift from God. A baby from rape is a gift from God. A baby from rape is a gift from God. [continue loop]


THAT is the reason for Santorum to drop out if he gives the slightest flip at all about getting Obama out of office. Obama won't need any more donations to beat Santorum.

Rick couldn't figure out how to shut up and change the topic to the economy and foreign policy. All he could do is keep digging the hole deeper.

If they embrace Santorum's social "conservativism", the GOP deserves to be smothered in the grave all those statehouses are digging for us with their uterus-invading legislative attempts.

 

[Dot Com]

Sorry, man, you keep drawing these false equivlencies becasue you can't really rationalize your own position.

You don't think Joseph Smith was talking to God any more than I do. You just want to be treated like you are sooo fucking understanding of craziness.

I refuse to go there. I don't call evil, stupid and silly anything other than that because you've dressed them up in vestments and call them a religion.

All Mormons think Joseph Smith was talking to God, even though the evidence is he was a cheap con man who wanted to have sex with kids. if that's what Romney believes, it's an easy disqualifier for me.

Not tha the slimy business practices, dog torture and scummy flip flopping aren't also really good reason.

You STILL claiming to be an atheist As Toro indicated they are all equally as implausable. What pisses people off about you is you'll make some very well- informed statements then start talking on- and -on about Mormons

 

[Toro]

This isn't about politics. You can vote for whomever you want for whatever reason you want. This is about discrimination and bigotry in every day life. And your discrimination is no different than discrimination against any other group, blacks and Jews included, no matter how much you try to rationalize. Blacklisting a whole group of people is reprehensible.

NO, it's pragmatic. I don't wait to find the second cockroach in my salad..

And you seem awfully upset about htis whole "I won't do business thing". YOu must think I run some vast enterprise where my lack of patronage is dooming or something.

When I stated I won't do business, it means I won't patronize their businesses, if I'm aware of them. For instance, when I was 16 or so, I used to love the original BattleStar Galatica Series. (Okay, I was 16 and didn't realize the difference between good Sci-Fi and bad Sci-Fi). I didn't realize that Glen Larson (or as they lovingly call him in Hollywood, Glen Larcency for stealing other people's ideas and credits) was an LDS who slipped in a bunch of Mormon subtext into the series.

That's the kind of suspicious crap I'm talking about.

Right.

Just like people who won't do business with blacks and Jews because blacks and Jews have done underhanded things.

No different.

 

[JoeB131]

You STILL claiming to be an atheist As Toro indicated they are all equally as implausable. What pisses people off about you is you'll make some very well- informed statements then start talking on- and -on about Mormons

Do I look like a person who gives a rat's behind what other people think?

Seriously?

But I will explain this to you one more time. All Religions are not equally silly.

Some of them are downright evil.

Martin Luther started Lutheranism because he saw the Catholic Church was corrupt in selling indulgences and offices (Simony). He read the bible and determined this really wasn't what Jesus had in mind. He might still subscribe to some silly beliefs, but his intent was good.

Joseph Smith started Mormonism to scam less smart people out of their money and screw little girls and wives of his followers. Really, the David Koresh of 1844. His intents were clearly not good. He was a two bit con man who started to believe his own scam.

I'm really sorry this difference isn't as clear to you as it is to me.

 

[JoeB131]

Right.

Just like people who won't do business with blacks and Jews because blacks and Jews have done underhanded things.

No different.

Ooookay, when you are done drawing false equivlencies, we can talk...

 

[JoeB131]

So, really, no good reason for Santorum to drop out. He wins no matter how this turns out for him.

A baby from rape is a gift from God. A baby from rape is a gift from God. A baby from rape is a gift from God. A baby from rape is a gift from God. A baby from rape is a gift from God. [continue loop]


THAT is the reason for Santorum to drop out if he gives the slightest flip at all about getting Obama out of office. Obama won't need any more donations to beat Santorum.

Rick couldn't figure out how to shut up and change the topic to the economy and foreign policy. All he could do is keep digging the hole deeper.

If they embrace Santorum's social "conservativism", the GOP deserves to be smothered in the grave all those statehouses are digging for us with their uterus-invading legislative attempts.

You really think Obama wants to talk about abortion? Really?

Palin's views were just as extreme as Santorums. Hell, she even had a mentally disabled baby to prove how committed to the Pro-Life position she was. How often did Obama challenger her on the subject? Never. Democrats don't want to talk about this subject, because it doesn't help them with key groups.