So, what stands between the fighting in Iraq and our front door?

[Mojo2]

So, what stands between the fighting in Iraq and our front door?



The fighting in distant Iraq is the exact same fight destined for America.

What do we expect will prevent that fight from being waged on the streets of America?

 

[Indofred]

The fighting in distant Iraq is the exact same fight destined for America.

What do we expect will prevent that fight from being waged on the streets of America?

Stop fucking about and generally invading other people's countries.
All attacks against Americans are direct results of American fucking about and interference.

Stop doing that and no fucker will hate you.

 

[Redfish]

The fighting in distant Iraq is the exact same fight destined for America.

What do we expect will prevent that fight from being waged on the streets of America?

Stop fucking about and generally invading other people's countries.
All attacks against Americans are direct results of American fucking about and interference.

Stop doing that and no fucker will hate you.

its not that simple. Radical islam has been trying to take over the world for thousands of years. Right now, obama is helping them.

I do agree that the USA needs to stop trying to police the world and right all wrongs (as we see them). But the USA is not responsible for islamic jihad against all non muslims.

 

[Mr. H.]

I believe there are "sleepers" within our borders, and their numbers are growing. They aren't at our door, they're in our house.

 

[rdean]

The fighting in distant Iraq is the exact same fight destined for America.

What do we expect will prevent that fight from being waged on the streets of America?

Stop fucking about and generally invading other people's countries.
All attacks against Americans are direct results of American fucking about and interference.

Stop doing that and no fucker will hate you.

its not that simple. Radical islam has been trying to take over the world for thousands of years. Right now, obama is helping them.

I do agree that the USA needs to stop trying to police the world and right all wrongs (as we see them). But the USA is not responsible for islamic jihad against all non muslims.

The GOP let Bin Laden go, destabilized the Middle East and invaded the wrong country. In their complete ignorance of Islamic politics, they created a Shiite government friendly to Iran and disbanded a well trained and armed military force of 250,000 leaving them without pay, a job or a future and hostile to this country.

No one has done more to help al Qaeda than Republicans. So I which these idiot fucks would stop blaming Obama for their disastrous fiascoes and debacles. It's disgusting.

 

[Indofred]

Let me see....

You interfere in local politics, attack countries, assist others against the rest of the area, remove government and commit mass murder.

These things have no effect on how much the people you hurt hate America.


Drrrrrr - idiots.

No one attacked America until you started being daft bastards.
Yes, some moron will mention the Barbary pirates; that's the desperation they need resort to in order to justify America's stupid foreign policy.

 

[Mojo2]

The fighting in distant Iraq is the exact same fight destined for America.

What do we expect will prevent that fight from being waged on the streets of America?

Stop fucking about and generally invading other people's countries.
All attacks against Americans are direct results of American fucking about and interference.

Stop doing that and no fucker will hate you.

More like, 'stop trying to meet JFK's promise to the World to "...meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty..." so Jihadists will have an easier time of conquering lands and territories and countries.'

And what would WE get for betraying our allies and adopting an isolationist foreign policy?

The assurance from Jihadists that we'd be the LAST country to be conquered.

That is a suicide deal.

A deal with the debil.

 

[Mr. H.]

Let me see....

You interfere in local politics, attack countries, assist others against the rest of the area, remove government and commit mass murder.

These things have no effect on how much the people you hurt hate America.


Drrrrrr - idiots.

No one attacked America until you started being daft bastards.
Yes, some moron will mention the Barbary pirates; that's the desperation they need resort to in order to justify America's stupid foreign policy.

If by "daft bastards" you mean our support of Israel, then I would tend to agree.

 

[Mojo2]

Let me see....

You interfere in local politics, attack countries, assist others against the rest of the area, remove government and commit mass murder.

These things have no effect on how much the people you hurt hate America.


Drrrrrr - idiots.

No one attacked America until you started being daft bastards.
Yes, some moron will mention the Barbary pirates; that's the desperation they need resort to in order to justify America's stupid foreign policy.

"When Devils Walk the Earth"
(A MUST READ article on how to deal with Terrorism)

Ralph Peters' book by way of the JPFO ^ | 2004 | Ralph Peters
Posted on 4/27/2004 4:17:57 PM by redrock

Note: Received this from an Army friend.... Pay particular attention to item 13!

========================

HELLO TO ALL:
This essay is extracted from Ralph Peters' new book, "When Devils Walk the Earth." It is a must-read. The man is prescient. If you focus on nothing else, peruse the last point; Number 25. I added the "bold" and red color to points I thought ought to receive major emphasis.......Ed
(Ed is Major General, USA, Ret, Ed Browne)

Chapter III. Fighting Terror: Do's and Don'ts for a Superpower:
1. Be feared!

2. Identify the type of terrorists you face, and know your enemy as well as you possibly can. Although tactics may be similar, strategies for dealing with practical vs. apocalyptic terrorists can differ widely. Practical terrorists may have legitimate grievances that deserve consideration, although their methods cannot be tolerated. Apocalyptic terrorists, no matter their rhetoric, seek your destruction and must be killed to the last man. The apt metaphor is cancer: you cannot hope for success if you only cut out part of the tumor. For the apocalyptic terrorist, evading your efforts can easily be turned into a public triumph. Our bloodiest successes will create far fewer terrorists and sympathizers than our failures.

3. Do not be afraid to be powerful. Cold War-era gambits of proportionate response and dialog may have some utility in dealing with practical terrorists, but they are counter-productive in dealing with apocalyptic terrorists. Our great strengths are wealth and raw power. When we fail to bring those strengths to bear, we contribute to our own defeat. For a superpower to think small, which has been our habit across the last decade, at least, is self-defeating folly. Our responses to terrorist acts should make the world gasp!

4. Speak bluntly. Euphemisms are interpreted as weakness by our enemies and mislead the American people. Speak of killing terrorists and destroying their organizations. Timid speech leads to timid actions. Explain when necessary, but do not apologize. Expressions of regret are never seen as a mark of decency by terrorists or their supporters, but only as a sign that our will is faltering. Blame the terrorists as the root cause whenever operations have unintended negative consequences. Never go on the rhetorical defensive.

5. Concentrate on winning the propaganda war where it is winnable. Focus on keeping or enhancing the support from allies and well-disposed clients, but do not waste an inordinate amount of effort trying to win unwinnable hearts and minds. Convince hostile populations through victory.

6. Do not be drawn into a public dialog with terrorists, especially not with apocalyptic terrorists. You cannot win. You legitimize the terrorists by addressing them even through a third medium, and their extravagant claims will resound more successfully on their own home ground than anything you can say. Ignore absurd accusations, and never let the enemy's claims slow or sidetrack you. The terrorist wants you to react, and your best means of unbalancing him and his plan is to ignore his accusations.

7. Avoid planning creep. Within our vast bureaucratic system, too many voices compete for attention and innumerable agendas, often selfish and personal - intrude on any attempt to act decisively. Focus on the basic mission: the destruction of the terrorists with all the moral, intellectual and practical rigor you can bring to bear. All other issues, from future nation building, to alliance consensus, to humanitarian concerns are secondary.

8. Maintain resolve. Especially in the Middle East and Central Asia, experts and diplomats will always present you with a multitude of good reasons for doing nothing, or for doing too little (or for doing exactly the wrong thing). Fight as hard as you can within the system to prevent diplomats from gaining influence over the strategic campaign. Although their intentions are often good, our diplomats and their obsolete strategic views are the terrorist's unwitting allies and diplomats are extremely jealous of military success and military authority in their region (where their expertise is never as deep or subtle as they believe it to be). Beyond the problem with our diplomats, the broader forces of bureaucratic entropy are an internal threat. The counter-terrorist campaign must be not only resolute, but constantly self-rejuvenating in ideas, techniques, military and inter-agency combinations, and sheer energy. Old hands must be stimulated constantly by new ideas.

9. When in doubt, hit harder than you think necessary. Success will be forgiven. Even the best-intentioned failure will not. When military force is used against terrorist networks, it should be used with such power that it stuns even our allies. We must get over our cowardice in means. While small-scale raids and other knifepoint operations are useful against individual targets, broader operations should be overwhelming. Of course, targeting limitations may inhibit some efforts but whenever possible, maximum force should be used in simultaneous operations at the very beginning of a campaign. Do not hesitate to supplement initial target lists with extensive bombing attacks on nothing if they can increase the initial psychological impact. Demonstrate power whenever you can. Show; don't tell!

10. Whenever legal conditions permit, kill terrorists on the spot (do not give them a chance to surrender, if you can help it). Contrary to academic wisdom, the surest way to make a martyr of a terrorist is to capture, convict and imprison him, leading to endless efforts by sympathizers to stage kidnappings, hijacking and other events intended to liberate the imprisoned terrorist(s). This is war, not law enforcement.

11. Never listen to those who warn that ferocity on our part reduces us to the level of the terrorists. That is the argument of the campus, not of the battlefield, and it insults America's service members and the American people. Historically, we have proven, time after time, that we can do a tough, dirty job for our country without any damage to our nation's moral fabric (Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not interfere with American democracy, values or behavior).

12. Spare and protect innocent civilians whenever possible, but: do not let the prospect of civilian casualties interfere with ultimate mission accomplishment. This is a fight to protect the American people, and we must do so whatever the cost, or the price in American lives may be devastating. In a choice between them, and us the choice is always us.

13. Do not allow the terrorists to hide behind religion. Apocalyptic terrorists cite religion as a justification for attacking us; in turn, we cannot let them hide behind religious holidays, taboos, strictures or even sacred terrain. We must establish a consistent reputation for relentless pursuit and destruction of those who kill our citizens. Until we do this, our hesitation will continue to strengthen our enemy's ranks and his resolve.

14. Do not allow third parties to broker a peace, a truce, or any pause in operations. One of the most difficult challenges in fighting terrorism on a global scale is the drag produced by nervous allies. We must be single-minded. The best thing we can do for our allies in the long-term is to be so resolute and so strong that they value their alliance with us all the more. We must recognize the innate strength of our position and stop allowing regional leaders with counterproductive local agendas to subdue or dilute our efforts.

15. Don't flinch. If an operation goes awry and friendly casualties are unexpectedly high, immediately bolster morale and the military's image by striking back swiftly in a manner that inflicts the maximum possible number of casualties on the enemy and his supporters. Hit back as graphically as possible, to impress upon the local and regional players that you weren't badly hurt or deterred in the least.

16. Do not worry about alienating already-hostile populations. --(ED ADDED, "OR ANTI-WAR SENATORS ASPIRING TO BECOME PRESIDENT OF OUR GREAT NATION.")

17. Whenever possible, humiliate your enemy in the eyes of his own people. Do not try to use reasonable arguments against him. Shame him publicly, in any way you can. Create doubt where you cannot excite support. Most apocalyptic terrorists, especially, come from cultures of male vanity. Disgrace them at every opportunity. Done successfully, this both degrades them in the eyes of their followers and supporters, and provokes the terrorist to respond, increasing his vulnerability.

18. If the terrorists hide, strike what they hold dear, using clandestine means and, whenever possible, foreign agents to provoke them to break cover and react. Do not be squeamish. Your enemy is not. Subtlety is not superpower strength but the raw power to do that, which is necessary, is our great advantage. We forget that, while the world may happily chide or accuse us-or complain of our inhumanity-no one can stop us if we maintain our strength of will. Much of the world will complain no matter what we do. Hatred of America is the default position of failed individuals and failing states around the world, in every civilization, and there is nothing we can do to change their minds. We refuse to understand how much of humanity will find excuses for evil, so long as the evil strikes those who are more successful than the apologists themselves. This is as true of American academics, whose eagerness to declare our military efforts a failure is unflagging, or European clerics, who still cannot forgive America's magnanimity at the end of World War II, as it is of unemployed Egyptians or Pakistanis. The psychologically marginalized are at least as dangerous as the physically deprived.

19. Do not allow the terrorists sanctuary in any country, at any time, under any circumstances. Counter-terrorist operations must, above all, be relentless. This does not necessarily mean that military operations will be constantly underway sometimes it will be surveillance efforts, or deception plans, or operations by other agencies. But the overall effort must never pause for breath. We must be faster, more resolute, more resourceful and, ultimately, even more uncompromising than our enemies.

20. Never declare victory. Announce successes and milestones. But never give the terrorists a chance to embarrass you after a public pronouncement that the war is over.

21. Impress upon the minds of terrorists and potential terrorists everywhere, and upon the populations and governments inclined to support them, that American retaliation will be powerful and uncompromising. You will never deter fanatics, but you can frighten those who might support, harbor or attempt to use terrorists for their own ends. Our basic task in the world today is to restore a sense of American power, capabilities and resolve. We must be hard, or we will be struck wherever we are soft. It is folly for charity to precede victory. First win, then unclench your fist.

22. Do everything possible to make terrorists and their active supporters live in terror themselves. Turn the tide psychologically and practically. While this will not deter hard-core apocalyptic terrorists, it will dissipate their energies as they try to defend themselves and fear will deter many less-committed supporters of terror. Do not be distracted by the baggage of the term assassination. This is a war. The enemy, whether a hijacker or a financier, violates the laws of war by his refusal to wear a uniform and by purposely targeting civilians. He is by definition a war criminal. On our soil, he is either a spy or a saboteur, and not entitled to the protections of the U.S. Constitution. Those who abet terrorists must grow afraid to turn out the lights to go to sleep.

23. Never accept the consensus of the Washington intelligentsia, which looks backward to past failures, not forward to future successes.

24. In dealing with Islamic apocalyptic terrorists, remember that their most cherished symbols are fewer and far more vulnerable than are the West's. Ultimately, no potential target can be regarded as off-limits when the United States is threatened with mass casualties. Worry less about offending foreign sensibilities and more about protecting Americans.

25. Do not look for answers in recent history, which is still unclear and subject to personal emotion. Begin with the study of the classical world, specifically Rome, which is the nearest model to the present-day United States. Mild with subject peoples, to whom they brought the rule of ethical law, the Romans in their rise and at their apogee were implacable with their enemies. The utter destruction of Carthage brought centuries of local peace, while the later empire's attempts to appease barbarians consistently failed!

"When Devils Walk the Earth"-(A MUST READ article on how to deal with Terrorism)

 

[Redfish]

Let me see....

You interfere in local politics, attack countries, assist others against the rest of the area, remove government and commit mass murder.

These things have no effect on how much the people you hurt hate America.


Drrrrrr - idiots.

No one attacked America until you started being daft bastards.
Yes, some moron will mention the Barbary pirates; that's the desperation they need resort to in order to justify America's stupid foreign policy.

please explain how our interventionist foreign policy (which we agree is wrong) caused radical islam to declare jihad on all non-believers.

 

[Desperado]

Let me see....

You interfere in local politics, attack countries, assist others against the rest of the area, remove government and commit mass murder.

These things have no effect on how much the people you hurt hate America.


Drrrrrr - idiots.

No one attacked America until you started being daft bastards.
Yes, some moron will mention the Barbary pirates; that's the desperation they need resort to in order to justify America's stupid foreign policy.

please explain how our interventionist foreign policy (which we agree is wrong) caused radical islam to declare jihad on all non-believers.

Our Interventionist policies may not have caused radical islam to declare jihad on all non-believers but it has certainly brought more supporters to their cause.

 

[Redfish]

Let me see....

You interfere in local politics, attack countries, assist others against the rest of the area, remove government and commit mass murder.

These things have no effect on how much the people you hurt hate America.


Drrrrrr - idiots.

No one attacked America until you started being daft bastards.
Yes, some moron will mention the Barbary pirates; that's the desperation they need resort to in order to justify America's stupid foreign policy.

please explain how our interventionist foreign policy (which we agree is wrong) caused radical islam to declare jihad on all non-believers.

Our Interventionist policies may not have caused radical islam to declare jihad on all non-believers but it has certainly brought more supporters to their cause.

and you know that how? Until recently, our policies, and those of most of europe, have kept radical islam in check. Now, under the great kenyan messiah obozo the wonderful, radical islam is growing and moving into every country in the world.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So, what stands between the fighting in Iraq and our front door?



The fighting in distant Iraq is the exact same fight destined for America.

What do we expect will prevent that fight from being waged on the streets of America?

This fails as a straw man fallacy.

 

[Indofred]

Let me see....

You interfere in local politics, attack countries, assist others against the rest of the area, remove government and commit mass murder.

These things have no effect on how much the people you hurt hate America.


Drrrrrr - idiots.

No one attacked America until you started being daft bastards.
Yes, some moron will mention the Barbary pirates; that's the desperation they need resort to in order to justify America's stupid foreign policy.

please explain how our interventionist foreign policy (which we agree is wrong) caused radical islam to declare jihad on all non-believers.

I believe there was no serious trouble in Iran until you removed the elected government and popped your pet dictator into power.
That always allows more extreme groups to flourish, as we saw in that country.
Now, instead of a oil dispute that would have sorted itself out in time, you have a radical government.
Of course, the Islamic republic of Iran had never murdered your sailors in the way Israeli forces did.

You assisted Surharto in Indonesia, mostly by bombing civilians. That got you a load of mates in this country.

You support Israel, regardless of how many people they murder. As with any extremist government, they encourage a far more extreme backlash, as you saw with 9/11 - a direct result of US intervention in the middle east.

America creates its own enemies, sadly you lot seem to be blind to that.

 

[BlindBoo]

So, what stands between the fighting in Iraq and our front door?



The fighting in distant Iraq is the exact same fight destined for America.

What do we expect will prevent that fight from being waged on the streets of America?

The Atlantic Ocean for starters. Unless of course you expect a wave of ISIS fighters to invade from Mexico or Canada!

 

[NYcarbineer]

I believe there are "sleepers" within our borders, and their numbers are growing. They aren't at our door, they're in our house.

So you're in bed with the terrorists?

 

[bendog]

The fighting in distant Iraq is the exact same fight destined for America.

What do we expect will prevent that fight from being waged on the streets of America?

Stop fucking about and generally invading other people's countries.
All attacks against Americans are direct results of American fucking about and interference.

Stop doing that and no fucker will hate you.

Damn, Guy Ritchie made an entire movie about that, and you summed it up in three sentences. (Revolver)

 

[NYcarbineer]

So, what stands between the fighting in Iraq and our front door?



The fighting in distant Iraq is the exact same fight destined for America.

What do we expect will prevent that fight from being waged on the streets of America?

The Atlantic Ocean for starters. Unless of course you expect a wave of ISIS fighters to invade from Mexico or Canada!

The sleepers are coming across the ocean!

 

[Plasmaball]

I believe there are "sleepers" within our borders, and their numbers are growing. They aren't at our door, they're in our house.

we call these people conservatives.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Waging full scale war in the ME will only escalate the question "So, what stands between the fighting in Iraq and our front door?" because the bad guys will come here certainly.