Star Ship Troopers wasn't about fascism...

[2aguy]

I keep hearing from lefties that the book by Robert Heinlein..."Starship Troopers" is an ode to a fascist society...in fact when that terrible movie came out the idiot director made that link...here is a science fiction writer explaining why the book isn't about, or glorifying fascism...let the lefties do that...

Heinlein was a Fascist John C. Wright s Journal

Fascism has four salient characteristics: 1. Fascism is economic socialism 2. Fascism is political totalitarianism 3. Fascism is Darwinian or Scientific racism 4. Fascism is populist regimentation of the civilian along military lines, with corresponding glorification of the military and contempt for democracy.

Second question: even if there is no fascism inside the book, is the book meant to appeal to a fascist audience or promote fascism?

Again, keep in mind the four characteristics of fascism: socialism, totalitarianism, scientific racism, glorification of military government over democracy.

Nothing in the book even mentions economics, but the description matches a free market society, not a top-down regulation society. (Contrast this with the scene in the opening of FARMER IN THE SKY, where it is casually mentioned that the father and son track the calories consumed at breakfast, because there is food rationing; or contrast this with STARMAN JONES, where guild regulations prevent the main character from getting a job. Heinlein knew how to describe by hints top-down regulation societies, and there is no such hint here.)

The politics are positively and decidedly anti-totalitarian. The only totalitarians in the book are the Klendathu, who have a hive-mind.

Is the book racist? One critic said the book was racist on the grounds that the troopers who kill the Krauts in space call their foes by nicknames like “Bugs” and “Skinnies” which is just exactly the same in every way as calling blacks “*******.” The idea that the troopers call their enemies “Bugs” because they look like Bugs and because saying “Pseudo-Arachnids of Klethandu” is too long to say evidently did not occur to this critic. “Pseudo-Arachnids of Klethandu, Mr. Rico! Zillions of ‘em!”

Apparently during the war, if any man in the ranks called the enemy “Jerry” or “Kraut” or “Jap” or “Nip” — that was a sign, not of ferocity toward the enemy, but hatred toward his race.

Of course, we live in a day and age when to oppose socialized medicine is to be a racist; to oppose elimination of secret ballots in union votes is to be a racist; to oppose government take-over of the motor car industry is to be racist; to be in favor of not inciting race-hatred is racist; to be in favor of judging men by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin is racist; to be a fan of Thomas Sowell and Alan Keyes is racist; to be a polite non-rock-throwing tax-protestor is to be racist and to be a terrorist also. The word “racist” no longer has any meaning. Real Racists of the world should rejoice, because the boy has cried wolf so often, that you, you scum, the real wolves who actually do promote race-hatred, you will never be noticed, because the society will be so busy chasing down tax-protestors and anti-abortion groups as to have no time for you.

What, then is the attitude of an ordinary man with ordinary, non-neurotic non-loathing toward the military that protects his life and liberty and property? What is a child supposed to learn is the proper and healthy emotional attitude toward soldiering?

I suggest the normal reaction to a war story is pity, respect, awe, and gratitude. Talking of such things in anything other than terse Gary Cooper like sentences does a disservice to the subject matter. Some things can only be spoken of briefly, lest they be dishonored by maudlin tones.

 

[Moonglow]

i thought it was about the never ending battle between humans and bugs??

 

[Moonglow]

And sex with your fellow soldier....

 

[2aguy]

And sex with your fellow soldier....

Did you ever read the book? No sex at all...

 

[Moonglow]

No. I never read the book. I'm not much of a fiction reader..

 

[2aguy]

It is a bit dated too...but as a kid in high school, when fantasy and science fiction were new to me...it was a great read...I took a copy of the book with me to basic training...for the infantry...

 

[Moonglow]

I took The Battle of Quatre Bras game board...

 

[Uncensored2008]

i thought it was about the never ending battle between humans and bugs??

Somehow, this doesn't surprise me....

 

[Uncensored2008]

No. I never read the book. I'm not much of a fiction reader..

I suspect you're not much of a reader of any sort...

 

[JakeStarkey]

The book is about militarism and the glorification of the military.

It is not fascistic.

 

[Rikurzhen]

No. I never read the book. I'm not much of a fiction reader..

You should read those Heinlein juveniles and also Starship Troopers. All rip-roaring yarns. I read them as a kid, already 40+ years after publication and while dated, they are entertaining. Read them as an adult too. Still pretty good stories and the anachronisms are charming.

To the OP, the racism charges come from poo-flinging leftists who see racism under every rock and play the "Holier Than Thou" game in order to boost their own reputation amongst their peers.

The fascism charge derives mainly from restricting the vote to military veterans. That's about it from what I recall. That sort of society doesn't appeal to Leftists and so they criticize it by using their favorite socialist slur, fascist.

That society is DIFFERENT than the society we live in, no doubt. The mandatory high school class in Moral Philosophy and the defense of violence as a tool to solve problems is not something that we see in, either the 1950s time of publication or even in today's society. Heinlein did paint a picture of an alternate social structure but it wasn't Fascism.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Rik is sick about race. The rest of the comments are good.

 

[Moonglow]

No. I never read the book. I'm not much of a fiction reader..

I suspect you're not much of a reader of any sort...

Only history, sociology, law, military and ancient studies...

 

[Moonglow]

No. I never read the book. I'm not much of a fiction reader..

You should read those Heinlein juveniles and also Starship Troopers. All rip-roaring yarns. I read them as a kid, already 40+ years after publication and while dated, they are entertaining. Read them as an adult too. Still pretty good stories and the anachronisms are charming.

To the OP, the racism charges come from poo-flinging leftists who see racism under every rock and play the "Holier Than Thou" game in order to boost their own reputation amongst their peers.

The fascism charge derives mainly from restricting the vote to military veterans. That's about it from what I recall. That sort of society doesn't appeal to Leftists and so they criticize it by using their favorite socialist slur, fascist.

That society is DIFFERENT than the society we live in, no doubt. The mandatory high school class in Moral Philosophy and the defense of violence as a tool to solve problems is not something that we see in, either the 1950s time of publication or even in today's society. Heinlein did paint a picture of an alternate social structure but it wasn't Fascism.

I tried reading James Blish and Bradbury but lost interest...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The book is about militarism and the glorification of the military.

It is not fascistic.

Can you cite the passages that glorify the military?

 

[Jarlaxle]

i thought it was about the never ending battle between humans and bugs??

Dude...you need to NOT read the Ender Wiggin series while stoned.

 

[Moonglow]

i thought it was about the never ending battle between humans and bugs??

Dude...you need to NOT read the Ender Wiggin series while stoned.

Why when there is Cosmo?

 

[Rikurzhen]

i thought it was about the never ending battle between humans and bugs??

Dude...you need to NOT read the Ender Wiggin series while stoned.

Why when there is Cosmo?

You're a fan of Seinfeld? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[2aguy]

The book is about militarism and the glorification of the military.
It is not fascistic.

The author of the article addresses the critics who attack the book on this point...not saying you are...it was one of my favorite books and pointed me toward the infantry over armor...

Does the book glorify the military? I suppose that depends on your definition of glory. The infantry life is described here as a thankless and dirty job performed by regular G.I.’s who just want to get the job done and grab a little sack time. Certainly the esprit de corps is glorified, perhaps more so than any science fiction book before it. The galactic battles of the space operas never paused to examine the life and times of a grunt soldier, a footslogger. When the Gray Lensman blows up the throne world of the Eeich by crushing it between two other planets, there is no scene of the infantrymen on shore leave whistling at girls and grousing about the sarge.

The book does heap contempt upon the self-indulgence to which Democracies are prone, particularly those democracies that chatter about rights and never meditate about duties, Democracies that ask what the government can do for them, but ask not what they can do for their government. This is about as controversial and fascist as the Federalist Papers by Jay, Madison and Hamilton.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The book is about militarism and the glorification of the military.

It is not fascistic.

Can you cite the passages that glorify the military?

Your question is immaterial, but you can read the work if you wish then respond to me. You have read it, you know my point is so, and so, once again, QWB, you will have to step along smartly.

Billc, the book inspired me to join the infantry as well.