Supporting Canibalism???

[sealybobo]

Since they are just going to be thrown away anyways.

And no scientist out there ever said they want to clone humans. That's a right wing myth to scare people.

Some people actually believe these embryo's are life, some people have been lied to and don't know enough to make an educated decision, and some people, like GW, are just using this to make it a political issue.

And this is all I need to know to discredit this story:

Robert George is a leading voice for social conservatism within the secular academy, and, in addition to scholarly work, is involved in pro-life and pro-family advocacy.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Since they are just going to be thrown away anyways.

And no scientist out there ever said they want to clone humans. That's a right wing myth to scare people.

Some people actually believe these embryo's are life, some people have been lied to and don't know enough to make an educated decision, and some people, like GW, are just using this to make it a political issue.

And this is all I need to know to discredit this story:

Robert George is a leading voice for social conservatism within the secular academy, and, in addition to scholarly work, is involved in pro-life and pro-family advocacy.

My friend, I would have thought that you would have learned a powerful lesson on parsing language from a certain cigar-using Democrat President.

Look carefully at the language of President Obama's exec order yesterday. He didn't say that cloning would not be allowed, merely that same could not be use to reinsert, for reproductive purposes.

Did I understand that you don't believe that embryos are alive?

Now, be honest.

And if you actually need proof, ask anyone who has ever purchased condoms.

Knowing that Robert George is ethical and moral, and a scholar as well, should be "all you need to know."

 

[Skeptik]

Gosh, Obama is in favor of using embryos for scientific research that might lead to the ability to cure Parkinsons, and maybe repair nerve damage, so that paraplegics can walk again.

The moral thing to do, of course, is to throw the embryos away, maybe just flush them.

How immoral of him.

 

[sealybobo]

Since they are just going to be thrown away anyways.

And no scientist out there ever said they want to clone humans. That's a right wing myth to scare people.

Some people actually believe these embryo's are life, some people have been lied to and don't know enough to make an educated decision, and some people, like GW, are just using this to make it a political issue.

And this is all I need to know to discredit this story:

Robert George is a leading voice for social conservatism within the secular academy, and, in addition to scholarly work, is involved in pro-life and pro-family advocacy.

My friend, I would have thought that you would have learned a powerful lesson on parsing language from a certain cigar-using Democrat President.

Look carefully at the language of President Obama's exec order yesterday. He didn't day that cloning would not be allowed, merely that same could not be use to reinsert, for reproductive purposes.

Did I understand that you don't beleve that embryos are alive?

Now, be honest.

And if you actually need proof, ask anyone who has ever purchased condoms.

Knowing that Robert George is ethical and moral, and a scholar as well, should be "all you need to know."

Yes, spirm swim like tadpoles. That does not mean life. Science can not advance with backward thinking like this.

Does an embryo have the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happyness? Then it is not "LIFE" yet. A tree or chicken are more life.

People who think like you are the very small minority. And no matter what, it is going to happen now. No need to cry about it.

And now you can start focusing on 1 year old orphans. They are living too you know. And they have feelings. They suffer. They deserve a chance too. Why don't you forget about life that isn't born yet and focus on people who were born? Just for 4 years, try it.

 

[jillian]

politicized stem cell research?

funny how the freaks weren't whining that baby bush politicized science when he banned the research.

what a joke.

what a pleasure that the freaks have no more power.

but do keep trying to bring down the republican party.... i'm sure they'll be grateful forever.

 

[PoliticalChic]

politicized stem cell research?

funny how the freaks weren't whining that baby bush politicized science when he banned the research.

what a joke.

what a pleasure that the freaks have no more power.

but do keep trying to bring down the republican party.... i'm sure they'll be grateful forever.

Freaks? How Liberal of you. And what would be the appropriate appellation for your side?

Could you document that President Bush banned stem cell research? I think not, so we see where and what the truth is.

Your usual reference to an opposing point of view, one which can be intellectually defended, puts you in the same group as Air America, MSNBC and the usual storm troopers of the Left-Wing smear machine. I think you are beginning to unravel.

"First, the Obama policy is itself blatantly political. It is red meat to his Bush-hating base, yet pays no more than lip service to recent scientific breakthroughs that make possible the production of cells that are biologically equivalent to embryonic stem cells without the need to create or kill human embryos."
Robert George and Eric Cohen Say Barack Obama Has Politicized Stem-Cell Research - WSJ.com

 

[Diuretic]

When someone de-politicises an issue and they're acccused of politicising it then I know we have moved even further into the realm of Newspeak.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Gosh, Obama is in favor of using embryos for scientific research that might lead to the ability to cure Parkinsons, and maybe repair nerve damage, so that paraplegics can walk again.

The moral thing to do, of course, is to throw the embryos away, maybe just flush them.

How immoral of him.

Sarcasm hides the fact that you are unimformed.

Did you know that adult stem cell use has the following successes:
"current clinical applications of adult stem cells are abundant! They include treatments for the following: corneal restoration, brain tumors, breast cancer, ovarian cancer, liver disease, leukemia, lupus, arthritis, and heart disease. Thousands of patients are treated and cured using adult stem cells."

And some disadvantages of using human embryonic stem cells:
"First, one minor complication is that use of human embryonic stem cells requires lifelong use of drugs to prevent rejection of the tissue. Second, another more serious disadvantage is that using embryonic stem cells can produce tumors from rapid growth when injected into adult patients."

 

[Diuretic]

You forgot this one:

A WORLD first stem cell breakthrough that could cure terminally ill people with muscle-wasting diseases has been made by Sydney scientists.

It may prolong the lives of those with muscular dystrophy and myopathy, which can confine them to wheelchairs, by replacing bad genes.

Using adult stem cells, a team of researchers from the University of NSW and the Children's Hospital at Westmead have found that by replacing the bad gene in stem cells and then using chemotherapy, the muscle can repair and regrow.

Sydney scientists&squo; stem cell world first | The Daily Telegraph

 

[PoliticalChic]

so don't use the treatments they develop.

the idea that only adult stem cells show promise is bizarre.... and is religious right propaganda.

I'm amazed that anyone even knew what the OP was about.

"Current clinical applications of adult stem cells are abundant! They include treatments for the following: corneal restoration, brain tumors, breast cancer, ovarian cancer, liver disease, leukemia, lupus, arthritis, and heart disease. Thousands of patients are treated and cured using adult stem cells. Alternative sources for adult stem cells include: placenta, cord blood, bone marrow organ donors, and possibly fat cells."
Ten Problems with Embryonic Stem Cell Research

Please provide a similar list of successes based on embryonic stem cell, or if this is not possible, simply shout three times:
" I ALWAYS MOUTH WHATEVER LIBERAL BABBLE I CAN FIND."

That will be all.

brought to you by the Institute for Creation Research.... their mission:

ICR equips believers with evidence of the Bible's accuracy and authority through scientific research, educational programs, and media presentations, all conducted within a thoroughly biblical framework.

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Thanks for proving my point.

So let's review:
1) You are unable to find that any of the successes of adult stem cell therapy are not as I indicated. Thank you.

2) You are unable to find similar successes for embryonic stem cell therapy, which indicates that the Obama/Jillian Axis's plan is political, not scientific. Thank you.

3) While on at least two threads you have stated that President Bush had banned stem cell research, I, in demanding documentation of same, have proven that you subscribe to totally made-up fabrications. Exposed.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You forgot this one:

A WORLD first stem cell breakthrough that could cure terminally ill people with muscle-wasting diseases has been made by Sydney scientists.

It may prolong the lives of those with muscular dystrophy and myopathy, which can confine them to wheelchairs, by replacing bad genes.

Using adult stem cells, a team of researchers from the University of NSW and the Children's Hospital at Westmead have found that by replacing the bad gene in stem cells and then using chemotherapy, the muscle can repair and regrow.

Sydney scientists&squo; stem cell world first | The Daily Telegraph

BTW, is that signature by Percy Aussie Shelley?

 

[Diuretic]

One of the positive aspects of this move will be that US researchers will be able to fully join their counterparts who are working on stem cell research - of both types (I assume they're only two, I'm not a scientist or scientifically-minded). That means that around the world researchers have just had a boost from this. That's a good thing and will be a benefit to humanity.

 

[Skeptik]

This is not a left vs right kind of issue, but an ideology vs science sort of issue.

That is, unless you categorize Nancy Reagan as a "liberal."

Nancy Reagan praises Obama for overturning Bush's policy on stem cells

LOS ANGELES, March 9 (Xinhua) -- Nancy Reagan, widow of late U.S. President Ronald Reagan, said on Monday that scientists would move forward in stem cell research thanks to President Barack Obama's decision to overturn the 8-year-old policy that limited federal funding for such research.

 

[jillian]

What's sad is we're not even in the top 30 in stem cell research.

http://www.mbbnet.umn.edu/scmap/competescmap.html

 

[Gunny]

so don't use the treatments they develop.

the idea that only adult stem cells show promise is bizarre.... and is religious right propaganda.

I'm amazed that anyone even knew what the OP was about.

You are incorrect. What's bizarre is your insistence that the facts don't speak for themselves and/or say what they do.

You STILL don't know what the OP is about, obviously.

oh... i got it eventually.

baby bush used his first ever veto to kill stem cell research to make the religious right happy. and he pulled himself away from crawford in the middle of the night on the Schiavo matter, which wasn't any of Congress' business.

the religious right should stay away from science.

thanks.

Blah, blah, fucking blah. The religious right this ... the religious right that. Doesn't matter how many times I have to point out the fallacy to your argument -- that one does not have be part of your imagined black helicopter God squad to respect human life as something more than a toy for scientists to play with.

Embryonic stem cell research has gone NOWHERE and THAT is the cold, hard fact for you. Learn to live with it. You get all high and mighty on your soapbox on a "might eventually someday lead to ..." Nothing more.

It amazes me that you and people like you who are so down on your fairy-tale "religious right" are the ones that are so obviously afraid to die that you'll buy a pig in a poke in th ehopes of sustaining your mortal lives 5 more minutes.

Get a grip.

 

[Gunny]

What's sad is we're not even in the top 30 in stem cell research.

Stem Cell Policy: Competitiveness and Stem Cell Research Map

That's not sad. That you think we should be is what's sad. Let's waste our tax dollars on yet ANOTHER wil 'o' wisp. Lord knows we don't do that enough.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

"Current clinical applications of adult stem cells are abundant! They include treatments for the following: corneal restoration, brain tumors, breast cancer, ovarian cancer, liver disease, leukemia, lupus, arthritis, and heart disease. Thousands of patients are treated and cured using adult stem cells. Alternative sources for adult stem cells include: placenta, cord blood, bone marrow organ donors, and possibly fat cells."
Ten Problems with Embryonic Stem Cell Research

Please provide a similar list of successes based on embryonic stem cell, or if this is not possible, simply shout three times:
" I ALWAYS MOUTH WHATEVER LIBERAL BABBLE I CAN FIND."

That will be all.

brought to you by the Institute for Creation Research.... their mission:

ICR equips believers with evidence of the Bible's accuracy and authority through scientific research, educational programs, and media presentations, all conducted within a thoroughly biblical framework.

Discover ICR

Thanks for proving my point.

I've noted in the past that the first step in liberal-debate is vile language, Thank you for omitting that step.

Step two is to avoid the point and distract from your ignorance by pointing elsewhere.

Now, where is your list of embrionic stem cell successes? Oh, is that you shouting:

" I ALWAYS MOUTH WHATEVER LIBERAL BABBLE I CAN FIND."

Actually they were pointing out that your source is biased. It is true that they did not address your challenge, though. There's a reason for that.

On January 23, 2009, Phase I clinical trials for transplantation of a human-ES-derived cell population into spinal cord-injured individuals received FDA approval, marking it the world's first human ES cell human trial [9]. The study leading to this scientific advancement was conducted by Hans Keirstead and colleagues at the University of California, Irvine and supported by Geron Corporation of Menlo Park, CA. The results of this experiment suggested an improvement in locomotor recovery in spinal cord-injured rats after a 7-day delayed transplantation of human ES cells that were pushed towards an oligodendrocytic lineage.

Embryonic stem cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The world’s first human trial was approved less than a month ago. It would seem that could be a reason they don’t have much yet. Incidentally, the policy difference between this and the last administration is shortly after that:

[...]where federal funding was at the time limited to research using embryonic stem cell lines derived prior to August 2001. In March, 2009, the limitation was lifted.

So no, Bush did not ban ES research, he merely restricted federal funding conditions. But much of the early research side of R&D is government-funded.

The therapeutic potential of adult stem cells is the focus of much scientific research, due to their ability to be harvested from the patient.[35] [36] [37] In common with embryonic stem cells, adult stem cells have the ability to differentiate into more than one cell type, but unlike the former they are often restricted to certain types or "lineages". The ability of a differentiated stem cell of one lineage to produce cells of a different lineage is called transdifferentiation. Some types of adult stem cells are more capable of transdifferentiation than others, and for many there is no evidence that such a transformation is possible. Consequently, adult stem therapies require a stem cell source of the specific lineage needed, and harvesting and/or culturing them up to the numbers required is a challenge.

Adult stem cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Superiority
Embryonic stem cells can be considered far more useful therapeutically than adult stem cells

This is usually presented as a counter-argument to using adult stem cells as an alternative that doesn't involve embryonic destruction.

Embryonic stem cells make up a significant proportion of a developing embryo, while adult stem cells exist as minor populations within a mature individual (e.g. in every 1,000 cells of the bone marrow, only 1 will be a usable stem cell). Thus, embryonic stem cells are likely to be easier to isolate and grow ex vivo than adult stem cells.[21]
Embryonic stem cells divide more rapidly than adult stem cells, potentially making it easier to generate large numbers of cells for therapeutic means. In contrast, adult stem cell might not divide fast enough to offer immediate treatment.[21]
Embryonic stem cells have greater plasticity, potentially allowing them to treat a wider range of diseases.[21]
Adult stem cells from the patient's own body might not be effective in treatment of genetic disorders. Allogeneic embryonic stem cell transplantation (i.e. from a healthy donor) may be more practical in these cases than gene therapy of a patient's own cell.[21]
DNA abnormalities found in adult stem cells that are caused by toxins and sunlight may make them poorly suited for treatment.[21]
Embryonic stem cells have been shown to be effective in treating heart damage in mice.[21]

Stem cell controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The jury is still out on whether there is any actual advantage for using ES versus adult in certain situations because the research needed to evaluate that hasn't been adequately done. While it is true that adult stem cells is more of a proven technology, that does not mean we shouldn't pursue whatever avenues we can within ethical limitations.

And that's where the real argument begins. Your problem is really with fertility clinics if you believe embryos in early development need rights, because they're the ones producing many of these embryos that they know will never be implanted. Stem cell research gives them a use instead of just being wasted.

A portion of stem cell researchers use embryos that were created but not used in in vitro fertility treatments to derive new stem cell lines. Most of these embryos are to be destroyed, or stored for long periods of time, long past their viable storage life. In the United States alone, there have been estimates of at least 400,000 such embryos.[13] This has led some opponents of abortion, such as Senator Orrin Hatch, to support human embryonic stem cell research.[14]

Stem cell controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sure embryos are technically "alive," but I'm not sure how you can call them a person merely by combining that with the idea that they have unique DNA. Do you believe the soul is injected at conception or something? DNA is merely instructions, it's our minds that make us unique in a meaningful way. And souls? Well there's no way to verify they even exist.

And some disadvantages of using human embryonic stem cells:
"First, one minor complication is that use of human embryonic stem cells requires lifelong use of drugs to prevent rejection of the tissue. Second, another more serious disadvantage is that using embryonic stem cells can produce tumors from rapid growth when injected into adult patients."

Actually the first one doesn't have to be true. A bit over a year ago some scientists found a way to create embryos from adult cells, essentially making cloned embryos. There would be no need for immunosuppressant drugs there, unless the disease was autoimmune. Stemagen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure about the second objection right now.

It may also be possible to get embryonic stem cells without destroying the embryo, or to induce adult cells back into an embryonic state. But the fertility clinics would still be discarding embryos.

 

[Diuretic]

You forgot this one:

A WORLD first stem cell breakthrough that could cure terminally ill people with muscle-wasting diseases has been made by Sydney scientists.

It may prolong the lives of those with muscular dystrophy and myopathy, which can confine them to wheelchairs, by replacing bad genes.

Using adult stem cells, a team of researchers from the University of NSW and the Children's Hospital at Westmead have found that by replacing the bad gene in stem cells and then using chemotherapy, the muscle can repair and regrow.

Sydney scientists&squo; stem cell world first | The Daily Telegraph

BTW, is that signature by Percy Aussie Shelley?

Well done

Not many people know about him ya know - I believe the Shelley family never mentioned him due to, ahem, well you know, him being transported to Botany Bay...

 

[Care4all]

PC,
Would you choose to throw out, discard, more than likely incinerate your left over frozen embryos and kill them in this manner than to donate them to medical science?

you and others seem to be missing the point that all of these embryos are incinerated and discarded anyway?

I heard on the 24/7 news that only 800 embryos have been donated to other women who wanted them, and the kazillion rest were killed, incinerated, thrown out, discarded....I don't know how else to put it?

Are you seriously against taking these embryos that will be killed, IF AND ONLY IF, the parents of these embryos are done having their children and did not want another women or couple to carry their children and bear their children or could not find another woman or couple to bear and adopt their children(embryos), that you would rather have them kill the embryos with no medical research done on them afterwards?

Are you against organ donations after death as well?

What actually is your or anyone elses objection to this....?

not political jargon, but inner gut instinct feeling and from the heart thoughts on all of this and what i talked about above or anything else that may be bothersome to you or questionable to you regarding all of this....?

Will you talk to me Ms Chicky?

care

 

[PoliticalChic]

brought to you by the Institute for Creation Research.... their mission:



Discover ICR

Thanks for proving my point.

I've noted in the past that the first step in liberal-debate is vile language, Thank you for omitting that step.

Step two is to avoid the point and distract from your ignorance by pointing elsewhere.

Now, where is your list of embrionic stem cell successes? Oh, is that you shouting:

" I ALWAYS MOUTH WHATEVER LIBERAL BABBLE I CAN FIND."

Actually they were pointing out that your source is biased. It is true that they did not address your challenge, though. There's a reason for that.

Embryonic stem cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The world’s first human trial was approved less than a month ago. It would seem that could be a reason they don’t have much yet. Incidentally, the policy difference between this and the last administration is shortly after that: So no, Bush did not ban ES research, he merely restricted federal funding conditions. But much of the early research side of R&D is government-funded.

Adult stem cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stem cell controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The jury is still out on whether there is any actual advantage for using ES versus adult in certain situations because the research needed to evaluate that hasn't been adequately done. While it is true that adult stem cells is more of a proven technology, that does not mean we shouldn't pursue whatever avenues we can within ethical limitations.

And that's where the real argument begins. Your problem is really with fertility clinics if you believe embryos in early development need rights, because they're the ones producing many of these embryos that they know will never be implanted. Stem cell research gives them a use instead of just being wasted.

A portion of stem cell researchers use embryos that were created but not used in in vitro fertility treatments to derive new stem cell lines. Most of these embryos are to be destroyed, or stored for long periods of time, long past their viable storage life. In the United States alone, there have been estimates of at least 400,000 such embryos.[13] This has led some opponents of abortion, such as Senator Orrin Hatch, to support human embryonic stem cell research.[14]

Stem cell controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sure embryos are technically "alive," but I'm not sure how you can call them a person merely by combining that with the idea that they have unique DNA. Do you believe the soul is injected at conception or something? DNA is merely instructions, it's our minds that make us unique in a meaningful way. And souls? Well there's no way to verify they even exist.

And some disadvantages of using human embryonic stem cells:
"First, one minor complication is that use of human embryonic stem cells requires lifelong use of drugs to prevent rejection of the tissue. Second, another more serious disadvantage is that using embryonic stem cells can produce tumors from rapid growth when injected into adult patients."

Actually the first one doesn't have to be true. A bit over a year ago some scientists found a way to create embryos from adult cells, essentially making cloned embryos. There would be no need for immunosuppressant drugs there, unless the disease was autoimmune. Stemagen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure about the second objection right now.

It may also be possible to get embryonic stem cells without destroying the embryo, or to induce adult cells back into an embryonic state. But the fertility clinics would still be discarding embryos.

Nice work.
I think the points that I would like to make are that, as you point out, "the jury is still out." Every story that I have read re: embryonic SC refers to 'potential' or 'future' or 'may...."
So there is every reason to continue with science that we know is efficacious, and...
the point of the OP is the creation of embryos only to be used as lab material is, in a way, cannabilism. So, philosophiclly, where do we draw the line?