Supreme Court fails to correct Fourth Circuit's imposition of Islam

[PoliticalChic]

There is another choice besides public school...

For whom? The wealthy? Where is that in the Constitution? Where in the Constitution do you find the notion that only the wealthy are guaranteed ideological liberty and free association? Where in the Constitutional does it say that only the parental consent and authority of the wealthy is protected because they have fatter wallets?

.

For whom? The wealthy? Where is that in the Constitution? Where in the Constitution do you find the notion that only the wealthy are guaranteed ideological liberty and free association? Where in the Constitutional does it say that only the parental consent and authority of the wealthy is protected because they have fatter wallets?

that's why the religious have their "own" ... church, ringtone. though the modern churches are not exactly bullworks against poverty or the inclusion of the the unfortunate through their doors. and have histories of exclusion including persecution and victimization of the innocent.

religion has no place in education as no religion qualifies as a verifiable, sound subject matter.

"religion has no place in education as no religion qualifies as a verifiable, sound subject matter."



Of course it does.


A simple study of the history of the 20th century refutes your post.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Bottom line.....

The Constitution is considered a fluid document that must be constantly "interpreted" by those wishing to transform America.
The Constitution cannot protect you...YOU must protect the Constitution. failing that......

All that is required for a rogue Supreme Court to nullify the Constitution is for good men to do nothing.

It's really THAT simple.

Wise men know that freedom was never free and that forces of evil will work relentlessly to revoke it at every level.

"The Tree of Liberty Must Occasionally be Refreshed with the Blood of Tyrants and Patriots"
Thomas Jefferson

Today, most people consider VOTING to be the extent of what Jefferson was talking about.

"The Constitution is considered a fluid document that must be constantly "interpreted" by those wishing to transform America.
The Constitution cannot protect you...YOU must protect the Constitution. failing that......"


You have just become 'Employee of the Month"!!!

 

[PoliticalChic]

- within the public funding apparatus.

that is correct - anything less than the state is a cult, you are nothing more than a cultist wanting public funds for only your own benefit, exactly. that's why you have your church, learn to stay there or share with others in a state institution.

Maybe you don't pay taxes, but I do. It's my money.

Do you practice being a fool or does it just come naturally?

Behold: another mindless, brainwashed lemming of the state schools.

BTW....we, homeschoolers, pay the taxes for government school, and there is no deduction for same.

The benefits are enormous, though.

 

[longknife]

The 4th Circuit denied it saying the girl was not forced to join a relgion.

BS

I can't find anything anywhere as to why SCOTUS didn't want to take a look at it.

 

[Lysistrata]

The best that I can glean from the internet is that this girl was in a world history class and couldn't fill in the blank on a quiz about what Muslims believe. I seriously doubt that this was any attempt to impose anyone's beliefs on anyone else. I wish the course curriculum was available, but the Fourth Circuit apparently did review it. There is no information on what other faiths were studied in this class, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc.

It is a major mistake, which keeps being repeated over and over again, to confuse "promotion" of a certain idea, person, whatever, with a simple statement that such a thing exists and a person should have a certain level of familiarity with it as part of a well-rounded education.

It is ironic that some people complain about the "promotion" of a particular religion and then turn around and complain that their own particular religion is not being promoted.

The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, regardless of background or faith. It is ridiculous to expect that taxpayers then foot the bill as well for all of those who do not like what is being offered to them for free and demand their own alternatives.

"The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, ..."


How much of a gift is it if American schoolchildren can't compete with other nation's kids when tested???


"In fourth grade, American students outperform most other countries in reading, math and science. Fourth-graders score in the 92nd percentile in science, the 58th percentile in math and the 70th percentile in reading, where they beat 26 of 35 countries, including Germany, France and Italy. But by the eighth grade, American students are only midrange in international comparisons. By the 12th grade Americans fall from the 92nd percentile in science to the 29th percentile. While American fourth-graders are bested only by South Korea and Japan in science, by 12th grade, the only countries the American students can beat are Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa."
Coulter, "Godless"



BTW....Public school teachers are more likely than others of their income to send their children to private school.

I agree that our curriculum needs to be strengthened. But you are arguing something completely different. You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?

 

[PoliticalChic]

The best that I can glean from the internet is that this girl was in a world history class and couldn't fill in the blank on a quiz about what Muslims believe. I seriously doubt that this was any attempt to impose anyone's beliefs on anyone else. I wish the course curriculum was available, but the Fourth Circuit apparently did review it. There is no information on what other faiths were studied in this class, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc.

It is a major mistake, which keeps being repeated over and over again, to confuse "promotion" of a certain idea, person, whatever, with a simple statement that such a thing exists and a person should have a certain level of familiarity with it as part of a well-rounded education.

It is ironic that some people complain about the "promotion" of a particular religion and then turn around and complain that their own particular religion is not being promoted.

The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, regardless of background or faith. It is ridiculous to expect that taxpayers then foot the bill as well for all of those who do not like what is being offered to them for free and demand their own alternatives.

"The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, ..."


How much of a gift is it if American schoolchildren can't compete with other nation's kids when tested???


"In fourth grade, American students outperform most other countries in reading, math and science. Fourth-graders score in the 92nd percentile in science, the 58th percentile in math and the 70th percentile in reading, where they beat 26 of 35 countries, including Germany, France and Italy. But by the eighth grade, American students are only midrange in international comparisons. By the 12th grade Americans fall from the 92nd percentile in science to the 29th percentile. While American fourth-graders are bested only by South Korea and Japan in science, by 12th grade, the only countries the American students can beat are Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa."
Coulter, "Godless"



BTW....Public school teachers are more likely than others of their income to send their children to private school.

I agree that our curriculum needs to be strengthened. But you are arguing something completely different. You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?

"You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?"


I understand why you'd like to pretend that, create a straw man, but what I would like is teaching and learning.

As government schooling is a wholly owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc., and the failure is glaring under their auspices, I would simply like to see Liberals/Democrats/Progressives restricted from control of education.


Objective and standardized testing is the only fair way to pay teacher's salaries and bonuses.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Supreme Court rejects case of Christian teen forced to write Islamic conversion prayer
10/25/19
Lauren Green

Excerpt:

One of the religious liberty cases the Supreme Court Justices won't be hearing this term is the issue of Maryland High School student Caleigh Wood, who refused to take part in a school assignment to write the Islamic conversion prayer that states “… there is no god but Allah,” because she believed it directly contradicted her Christian faith.

[. . .]

Thompson said that on top of getting an F in the class, Wood was also made to watch a pro-Islam “PowerPoint presentation that denigrated her religion and basically said that Christians are not as faithful as Muslims. So we strongly believed that this was a violation.”

Supreme Court rejects case of Christian teen forced to write Islamic conversion prayer
​

Another reason why universal school choice is the only solution consistent with natural and constitutional law.

Wrong.

“The Fourth Circuit held that the challenged coursework materials, viewed in the context in which they were presented, did not violate the student's First Amendment rights, because they did not impermissibly endorse any religion and did not compel the student to profess any belief. Accordingly, the court affirmed the district court's grant of summary judgment to defendants.”

Wood v. Arnold, No. 18-1430 (4th Cir. 2019)

The above link also contains the actual ruling by the 4th Circuit, explaining why you’re wrong.

Of course he is wrong. Ringtone is a fraudulent propagandist.

 

[SweetSue92]

The best that I can glean from the internet is that this girl was in a world history class and couldn't fill in the blank on a quiz about what Muslims believe. I seriously doubt that this was any attempt to impose anyone's beliefs on anyone else. I wish the course curriculum was available, but the Fourth Circuit apparently did review it. There is no information on what other faiths were studied in this class, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc.

It is a major mistake, which keeps being repeated over and over again, to confuse "promotion" of a certain idea, person, whatever, with a simple statement that such a thing exists and a person should have a certain level of familiarity with it as part of a well-rounded education.

It is ironic that some people complain about the "promotion" of a particular religion and then turn around and complain that their own particular religion is not being promoted.

The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, regardless of background or faith. It is ridiculous to expect that taxpayers then foot the bill as well for all of those who do not like what is being offered to them for free and demand their own alternatives.

"The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, ..."


How much of a gift is it if American schoolchildren can't compete with other nation's kids when tested???


"In fourth grade, American students outperform most other countries in reading, math and science. Fourth-graders score in the 92nd percentile in science, the 58th percentile in math and the 70th percentile in reading, where they beat 26 of 35 countries, including Germany, France and Italy. But by the eighth grade, American students are only midrange in international comparisons. By the 12th grade Americans fall from the 92nd percentile in science to the 29th percentile. While American fourth-graders are bested only by South Korea and Japan in science, by 12th grade, the only countries the American students can beat are Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa."
Coulter, "Godless"



BTW....Public school teachers are more likely than others of their income to send their children to private school.

I agree that our curriculum needs to be strengthened. But you are arguing something completely different. You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?

"You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?"


I understand why you'd like to pretend that, create a straw man, but what I would like is teaching and learning.

As government schooling is a wholly owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc., and the failure is glaring under their auspices, I would simply like to see Liberals/Democrats/Progressives restricted from control of education.


Objective and standardized testing is the only fair way to pay teacher's salaries and bonuses.

Excellent teachers love learning, care deeply about student learning and will, over time, show that their students' learn. I agree with you there. The dispute comes in how you define and demonstrate that learning. You cannot hold teachers accountable for that which they cannot control. Students who live in traumatic situations are just not going to learn as much, as fast, as students who do not. This is not opinion; it is brain chemistry. You cannot hold teachers accountable for brain chemistry. Here is just one of many articles which explains this altered brain chemistry:

Stress and the Developing Brain

Learning can absolutely be measured by objective measures. Those measures are very rarely bubble tests for any of us. Most people who love bubble tests are either politicians or real estate agents. Bubble tests are for school only; they have little to no application in the "real world". Applying knowledge, with creativity, in the "real world" is exactly why China is attempting to move AWAY from standardized tests:

The Chinese Curse. Is America Next? - THE DAILY RIFF - Be Smarter. About Education.

 

[Lysistrata]

The best that I can glean from the internet is that this girl was in a world history class and couldn't fill in the blank on a quiz about what Muslims believe. I seriously doubt that this was any attempt to impose anyone's beliefs on anyone else. I wish the course curriculum was available, but the Fourth Circuit apparently did review it. There is no information on what other faiths were studied in this class, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc.

It is a major mistake, which keeps being repeated over and over again, to confuse "promotion" of a certain idea, person, whatever, with a simple statement that such a thing exists and a person should have a certain level of familiarity with it as part of a well-rounded education.

It is ironic that some people complain about the "promotion" of a particular religion and then turn around and complain that their own particular religion is not being promoted.

The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, regardless of background or faith. It is ridiculous to expect that taxpayers then foot the bill as well for all of those who do not like what is being offered to them for free and demand their own alternatives.

"The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, ..."


How much of a gift is it if American schoolchildren can't compete with other nation's kids when tested???


"In fourth grade, American students outperform most other countries in reading, math and science. Fourth-graders score in the 92nd percentile in science, the 58th percentile in math and the 70th percentile in reading, where they beat 26 of 35 countries, including Germany, France and Italy. But by the eighth grade, American students are only midrange in international comparisons. By the 12th grade Americans fall from the 92nd percentile in science to the 29th percentile. While American fourth-graders are bested only by South Korea and Japan in science, by 12th grade, the only countries the American students can beat are Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa."
Coulter, "Godless"



BTW....Public school teachers are more likely than others of their income to send their children to private school.

I agree that our curriculum needs to be strengthened. But you are arguing something completely different. You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?

"You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?"


I understand why you'd like to pretend that, create a straw man, but what I would like is teaching and learning.

As government schooling is a wholly owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc., and the failure is glaring under their auspices, I would simply like to see Liberals/Democrats/Progressives restricted from control of education.


Objective and standardized testing is the only fair way to pay teacher's salaries and bonuses.

"I would simply like to see Liberals/Democrats/Progressives restricted from control of education."
​

But then right-wingers/republicans/regressives/ignorants would get control of education, and then where would the U.S. be? We certainly would never be able to compete on any level. Look at the screw ups that holy betsy is committing at the education department.
Just how is "government" (funny!) schooling a "wholly owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc."? What is "Liberalism, Inc.," anyway? What would you want changed?

 

[PoliticalChic]

The best that I can glean from the internet is that this girl was in a world history class and couldn't fill in the blank on a quiz about what Muslims believe. I seriously doubt that this was any attempt to impose anyone's beliefs on anyone else. I wish the course curriculum was available, but the Fourth Circuit apparently did review it. There is no information on what other faiths were studied in this class, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc.

It is a major mistake, which keeps being repeated over and over again, to confuse "promotion" of a certain idea, person, whatever, with a simple statement that such a thing exists and a person should have a certain level of familiarity with it as part of a well-rounded education.

It is ironic that some people complain about the "promotion" of a particular religion and then turn around and complain that their own particular religion is not being promoted.

The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, regardless of background or faith. It is ridiculous to expect that taxpayers then foot the bill as well for all of those who do not like what is being offered to them for free and demand their own alternatives.

"The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, ..."


How much of a gift is it if American schoolchildren can't compete with other nation's kids when tested???


"In fourth grade, American students outperform most other countries in reading, math and science. Fourth-graders score in the 92nd percentile in science, the 58th percentile in math and the 70th percentile in reading, where they beat 26 of 35 countries, including Germany, France and Italy. But by the eighth grade, American students are only midrange in international comparisons. By the 12th grade Americans fall from the 92nd percentile in science to the 29th percentile. While American fourth-graders are bested only by South Korea and Japan in science, by 12th grade, the only countries the American students can beat are Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa."
Coulter, "Godless"



BTW....Public school teachers are more likely than others of their income to send their children to private school.

I agree that our curriculum needs to be strengthened. But you are arguing something completely different. You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?

"You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?"


I understand why you'd like to pretend that, create a straw man, but what I would like is teaching and learning.

As government schooling is a wholly owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc., and the failure is glaring under their auspices, I would simply like to see Liberals/Democrats/Progressives restricted from control of education.


Objective and standardized testing is the only fair way to pay teacher's salaries and bonuses.

Excellent teachers love learning, care deeply about student learning and will, over time, show that their students' learn. I agree with you there. The dispute comes in how you define and demonstrate that learning. You cannot hold teachers accountable for that which they cannot control. Students who live in traumatic situations are just not going to learn as much, as fast, as students who do not. This is not opinion; it is brain chemistry. You cannot hold teachers accountable for brain chemistry. Here is just one of many articles which explains this altered brain chemistry:

Stress and the Developing Brain

Learning can absolutely be measured by objective measures. Those measures are very rarely bubble tests for any of us. Most people who love bubble tests are either politicians or real estate agents. Bubble tests are for school only; they have little to no application in the "real world". Applying knowledge, with creativity, in the "real world" is exactly why China is attempting to move AWAY from standardized tests:

The Chinese Curse. Is America Next? - THE DAILY RIFF - Be Smarter. About Education.

"You cannot hold teachers accountable for that which they cannot control."

I haven't made it so succinctly, but that is exactly my message, time and again.

It is the Liberal control of the system that is responsible for both the aim at indoctrination, and at the lack of real education.


1. Control is by those who follow the communist John Dewey and the communist Paulo Freire, who never intends “pedagogy” to refer to any method of classroom instruction based on analysis and research, or to any means of producing higher academic achievement for students. [H]e relies on Marx’s standard formulation that “the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat [and] this dictatorship only constitutes the transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society.” In one footnote, however, Freire does mention a society that has actually realized the “permanent liberation” he seeks: it “appears to be the fundamental aspect of Mao’s Cultural Revolution.”


2. The “Massachusetts miracle,” in which Bay State students’ soaring test scores broke records, was the direct consequence of the state legislature’s passage of the 1993 Education Reform Act, which established knowledge-based standards for all grades and a rigorous testing system linked to the new standards. And those standards, Massachusetts reformers have acknowledged, are Hirsch’s legacy.

In the new millennium, Massachusetts students have surged upward on the biennial National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)—“the nation’s report card,” as education scholars call it. On the 2005 NAEP tests, Massachusetts ranked first in the nation in fourth- and eighth-grade reading and fourth- and eighth-grade math. It then repeated the feat in 2007. No state had ever scored first in both grades and both subjects in a single year—let alone for two consecutive test cycles. On another reliable test, the Trends in International Math and Science Studies, the state’s fourth-graders last year ranked second globally in science and third in math, while the eighth-graders tied for first in science and placed sixth in math. (States can volunteer, as Massachusetts did, to have their students compared with national averages.) The United States as a whole finished tenth. E. D. Hirsch’s Curriculum for Democracy

 

[PoliticalChic]

The best that I can glean from the internet is that this girl was in a world history class and couldn't fill in the blank on a quiz about what Muslims believe. I seriously doubt that this was any attempt to impose anyone's beliefs on anyone else. I wish the course curriculum was available, but the Fourth Circuit apparently did review it. There is no information on what other faiths were studied in this class, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc.

It is a major mistake, which keeps being repeated over and over again, to confuse "promotion" of a certain idea, person, whatever, with a simple statement that such a thing exists and a person should have a certain level of familiarity with it as part of a well-rounded education.

It is ironic that some people complain about the "promotion" of a particular religion and then turn around and complain that their own particular religion is not being promoted.

The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, regardless of background or faith. It is ridiculous to expect that taxpayers then foot the bill as well for all of those who do not like what is being offered to them for free and demand their own alternatives.

"The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, ..."


How much of a gift is it if American schoolchildren can't compete with other nation's kids when tested???


"In fourth grade, American students outperform most other countries in reading, math and science. Fourth-graders score in the 92nd percentile in science, the 58th percentile in math and the 70th percentile in reading, where they beat 26 of 35 countries, including Germany, France and Italy. But by the eighth grade, American students are only midrange in international comparisons. By the 12th grade Americans fall from the 92nd percentile in science to the 29th percentile. While American fourth-graders are bested only by South Korea and Japan in science, by 12th grade, the only countries the American students can beat are Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa."
Coulter, "Godless"



BTW....Public school teachers are more likely than others of their income to send their children to private school.

I agree that our curriculum needs to be strengthened. But you are arguing something completely different. You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?

"You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?"


I understand why you'd like to pretend that, create a straw man, but what I would like is teaching and learning.

As government schooling is a wholly owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc., and the failure is glaring under their auspices, I would simply like to see Liberals/Democrats/Progressives restricted from control of education.


Objective and standardized testing is the only fair way to pay teacher's salaries and bonuses.

"I would simply like to see Liberals/Democrats/Progressives restricted from control of education."
​

But then right-wingers/republicans/regressives/ignorants would get control of education, and then where would the U.S. be? We certainly would never be able to compete on any level. Look at the screw ups that holy betsy is committing at the education department.
Just how is "government" (funny!) schooling a "wholly owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc."? What is "Liberalism, Inc.," anyway? What would you want changed?

The very opposite is true.....I'll prove it:


1. Control currently is by those who follow the communist John Dewey and the communist Paulo Freire, who never intends “pedagogy” to refer to any method of classroom instruction based on analysis and research, or to any means of producing higher academic achievement for students. [H]e relies on Marx’s standard formulation that “the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat [and] this dictatorship only constitutes the transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society.” In one footnote, however, Freire does mention a society that has actually realized the “permanent liberation” he seeks: it “appears to be the fundamental aspect of Mao’s Cultural Revolution.”
City Journal

2. The “Massachusetts miracle,” in which Bay State students’ soaring test scores broke records, was the direct consequence of the state legislature’s passage of the 1993 Education Reform Act, which established knowledge-based standards for all grades and a rigorous testing system linked to the new standards. And those standards, Massachusetts reformers have acknowledged, are Hirsch’s legacy.

In the new millennium, Massachusetts students have surged upward on the biennial National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)—“the nation’s report card,” as education scholars call it. On the 2005 NAEP tests, Massachusetts ranked first in the nation in fourth- and eighth-grade reading and fourth- and eighth-grade math. It then repeated the feat in 2007. No state had ever scored first in both grades and both subjects in a single year—let alone for two consecutive test cycles. On another reliable test, the Trends in International Math and Science Studies, the state’s fourth-graders last year ranked second globally in science and third in math, while the eighth-graders tied for first in science and placed sixth in math. (States can volunteer, as Massachusetts did, to have their students compared with national averages.) The United States as a whole finished tenth. E. D. Hirsch’s Curriculum for Democracy

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

The issue is individual liberty, the perspective of the individual, you mindless conformist, you statist bootlick. What don't you understand about the inalienable rights of each and every individual?
Lysistrata summarized: Collectivist think. Group think. Mob think. Leftist think. Statist think.
Who or what beat the liberty out of you? Was it your mommy? The state schools? Popular culture?

They're wired that way.
Individuality is a burden on society to them and collectivism and strict control is the answer in their view.

In other words, they lack the ability to think for themselves or care for themselves so they eagerly empower someone else to do it for them....even at the cost of their own liberty.

 

[SweetSue92]

The best that I can glean from the internet is that this girl was in a world history class and couldn't fill in the blank on a quiz about what Muslims believe. I seriously doubt that this was any attempt to impose anyone's beliefs on anyone else. I wish the course curriculum was available, but the Fourth Circuit apparently did review it. There is no information on what other faiths were studied in this class, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc.

It is a major mistake, which keeps being repeated over and over again, to confuse "promotion" of a certain idea, person, whatever, with a simple statement that such a thing exists and a person should have a certain level of familiarity with it as part of a well-rounded education.

It is ironic that some people complain about the "promotion" of a particular religion and then turn around and complain that their own particular religion is not being promoted.

The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, regardless of background or faith. It is ridiculous to expect that taxpayers then foot the bill as well for all of those who do not like what is being offered to them for free and demand their own alternatives.

"The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, ..."


How much of a gift is it if American schoolchildren can't compete with other nation's kids when tested???


"In fourth grade, American students outperform most other countries in reading, math and science. Fourth-graders score in the 92nd percentile in science, the 58th percentile in math and the 70th percentile in reading, where they beat 26 of 35 countries, including Germany, France and Italy. But by the eighth grade, American students are only midrange in international comparisons. By the 12th grade Americans fall from the 92nd percentile in science to the 29th percentile. While American fourth-graders are bested only by South Korea and Japan in science, by 12th grade, the only countries the American students can beat are Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa."
Coulter, "Godless"



BTW....Public school teachers are more likely than others of their income to send their children to private school.

I agree that our curriculum needs to be strengthened. But you are arguing something completely different. You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?

"You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?"


I understand why you'd like to pretend that, create a straw man, but what I would like is teaching and learning.

As government schooling is a wholly owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc., and the failure is glaring under their auspices, I would simply like to see Liberals/Democrats/Progressives restricted from control of education.


Objective and standardized testing is the only fair way to pay teacher's salaries and bonuses.

Excellent teachers love learning, care deeply about student learning and will, over time, show that their students' learn. I agree with you there. The dispute comes in how you define and demonstrate that learning. You cannot hold teachers accountable for that which they cannot control. Students who live in traumatic situations are just not going to learn as much, as fast, as students who do not. This is not opinion; it is brain chemistry. You cannot hold teachers accountable for brain chemistry. Here is just one of many articles which explains this altered brain chemistry:

Stress and the Developing Brain

Learning can absolutely be measured by objective measures. Those measures are very rarely bubble tests for any of us. Most people who love bubble tests are either politicians or real estate agents. Bubble tests are for school only; they have little to no application in the "real world". Applying knowledge, with creativity, in the "real world" is exactly why China is attempting to move AWAY from standardized tests:

The Chinese Curse. Is America Next? - THE DAILY RIFF - Be Smarter. About Education.

"You cannot hold teachers accountable for that which they cannot control."

I haven't made it so succinctly, but that is exactly my message, time and again.

It is the Liberal control of the system that is responsible for both the aim at indoctrination, and at the lack of real education.


1. Control is by those who follow the communist John Dewey and the communist Paulo Freire, who never intends “pedagogy” to refer to any method of classroom instruction based on analysis and research, or to any means of producing higher academic achievement for students. [H]e relies on Marx’s standard formulation that “the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat [and] this dictatorship only constitutes the transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society.” In one footnote, however, Freire does mention a society that has actually realized the “permanent liberation” he seeks: it “appears to be the fundamental aspect of Mao’s Cultural Revolution.”


2. The “Massachusetts miracle,” in which Bay State students’ soaring test scores broke records, was the direct consequence of the state legislature’s passage of the 1993 Education Reform Act, which established knowledge-based standards for all grades and a rigorous testing system linked to the new standards. And those standards, Massachusetts reformers have acknowledged, are Hirsch’s legacy.

In the new millennium, Massachusetts students have surged upward on the biennial National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)—“the nation’s report card,” as education scholars call it. On the 2005 NAEP tests, Massachusetts ranked first in the nation in fourth- and eighth-grade reading and fourth- and eighth-grade math. It then repeated the feat in 2007. No state had ever scored first in both grades and both subjects in a single year—let alone for two consecutive test cycles. On another reliable test, the Trends in International Math and Science Studies, the state’s fourth-graders last year ranked second globally in science and third in math, while the eighth-graders tied for first in science and placed sixth in math. (States can volunteer, as Massachusetts did, to have their students compared with national averages.) The United States as a whole finished tenth. E. D. Hirsch’s Curriculum for Democracy

I think you are seeing the whole of American education through some strange lens that is Brooklyn or Queens or whatever uber-liberal NY lens you live in. It is absolutely true that some areas of the US have been entirely given over to the worst of "liberal indoctrination".

It is also true that--thank GOD--NY is not America. In fact, I have been to over half of US states and NY is the ONLY US city so far I never, ever want to visit again. I barely recognized my country there. Sadly.

As to your article there: as usual a very good read, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Students, especially young children, cannot discover "knowledge" if they are ignorant, generally. I don't mean "ignorant" as a slam, btw, I mean they must be taught basic knowledge, skills and facts. I have no problem with this. At the same time, simply drilling them on these all the livelong day is a waste of their human potential. They must also then learn to APPLY what they have learned in the real world. To create, problem solve, etc. So really a balanced view is best--the "sage on the stage" teaches, and when the students have gained necessary knowledge and skills, "the guide on the side" is there to advise.

 

[Lysistrata]

The best that I can glean from the internet is that this girl was in a world history class and couldn't fill in the blank on a quiz about what Muslims believe. I seriously doubt that this was any attempt to impose anyone's beliefs on anyone else. I wish the course curriculum was available, but the Fourth Circuit apparently did review it. There is no information on what other faiths were studied in this class, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc.

It is a major mistake, which keeps being repeated over and over again, to confuse "promotion" of a certain idea, person, whatever, with a simple statement that such a thing exists and a person should have a certain level of familiarity with it as part of a well-rounded education.

It is ironic that some people complain about the "promotion" of a particular religion and then turn around and complain that their own particular religion is not being promoted.

The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, regardless of background or faith. It is ridiculous to expect that taxpayers then foot the bill as well for all of those who do not like what is being offered to them for free and demand their own alternatives.

"The public-school system is being provided by the taxpayers as a gift to all children and parents, ..."


How much of a gift is it if American schoolchildren can't compete with other nation's kids when tested???


"In fourth grade, American students outperform most other countries in reading, math and science. Fourth-graders score in the 92nd percentile in science, the 58th percentile in math and the 70th percentile in reading, where they beat 26 of 35 countries, including Germany, France and Italy. But by the eighth grade, American students are only midrange in international comparisons. By the 12th grade Americans fall from the 92nd percentile in science to the 29th percentile. While American fourth-graders are bested only by South Korea and Japan in science, by 12th grade, the only countries the American students can beat are Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa."
Coulter, "Godless"



BTW....Public school teachers are more likely than others of their income to send their children to private school.

I agree that our curriculum needs to be strengthened. But you are arguing something completely different. You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?

"You want public schools to be set up to cater to a certain sectarian religious orientation at the expense of everyone else, which in many ways goes against academic excellence because some religions are against teaching their children things like science, geography, world history and culture, and languages. Do you think that some twits cramming "creationism" into kids' minds is going to make them competitive globally?"


I understand why you'd like to pretend that, create a straw man, but what I would like is teaching and learning.

As government schooling is a wholly owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc., and the failure is glaring under their auspices, I would simply like to see Liberals/Democrats/Progressives restricted from control of education.


Objective and standardized testing is the only fair way to pay teacher's salaries and bonuses.

"I would simply like to see Liberals/Democrats/Progressives restricted from control of education."
​

But then right-wingers/republicans/regressives/ignorants would get control of education, and then where would the U.S. be? We certainly would never be able to compete on any level. Look at the screw ups that holy betsy is committing at the education department.
Just how is "government" (funny!) schooling a "wholly owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc."? What is "Liberalism, Inc.," anyway? What would you want changed?

The very opposite is true.....I'll prove it:


1. Control currently is by those who follow the communist John Dewey and the communist Paulo Freire, who never intends “pedagogy” to refer to any method of classroom instruction based on analysis and research, or to any means of producing higher academic achievement for students. [H]e relies on Marx’s standard formulation that “the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat [and] this dictatorship only constitutes the transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society.” In one footnote, however, Freire does mention a society that has actually realized the “permanent liberation” he seeks: it “appears to be the fundamental aspect of Mao’s Cultural Revolution.”
City Journal

2. The “Massachusetts miracle,” in which Bay State students’ soaring test scores broke records, was the direct consequence of the state legislature’s passage of the 1993 Education Reform Act, which established knowledge-based standards for all grades and a rigorous testing system linked to the new standards. And those standards, Massachusetts reformers have acknowledged, are Hirsch’s legacy.

In the new millennium, Massachusetts students have surged upward on the biennial National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)—“the nation’s report card,” as education scholars call it. On the 2005 NAEP tests, Massachusetts ranked first in the nation in fourth- and eighth-grade reading and fourth- and eighth-grade math. It then repeated the feat in 2007. No state had ever scored first in both grades and both subjects in a single year—let alone for two consecutive test cycles. On another reliable test, the Trends in International Math and Science Studies, the state’s fourth-graders last year ranked second globally in science and third in math, while the eighth-graders tied for first in science and placed sixth in math. (States can volunteer, as Massachusetts did, to have their students compared with national averages.) The United States as a whole finished tenth. E. D. Hirsch’s Curriculum for Democracy

How does this apply to current public education? What do you find objectionable that actually is being done in public schools and want to see changed? Do you want to see more rote learning? An end to encouraging students to ask questions and develop their own ideas?

 

[Ringtone]

1. Control currently is by those who follow the communist John Dewey and the communist Paulo Freire, who never intends “pedagogy” to refer to any method of classroom instruction based on analysis and research, or to any means of producing higher academic achievement for students. [H]e relies on Marx’s standard formulation that “the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat [and] this dictatorship only constitutes the transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society.” In one footnote, however, Freire does mention a society that has actually realized the “permanent liberation” he seeks: it “appears to be the fundamental aspect of Mao’s Cultural Revolution.”
City Journal

2. The “Massachusetts miracle,” in which Bay State students’ soaring test scores broke records, was the direct consequence of the state legislature’s passage of the 1993 Education Reform Act, which established knowledge-based standards for all grades and a rigorous testing system linked to the new standards. And those standards, Massachusetts reformers have acknowledged, are Hirsch’s legacy.

In the new millennium, Massachusetts students have surged upward on the biennial National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)—“the nation’s report card,” as education scholars call it. On the 2005 NAEP tests, Massachusetts ranked first in the nation in fourth- and eighth-grade reading and fourth- and eighth-grade math. It then repeated the feat in 2007. No state had ever scored first in both grades and both subjects in a single year—let alone for two consecutive test cycles. On another reliable test, the Trends in International Math and Science Studies, the state’s fourth-graders last year ranked second globally in science and third in math, while the eighth-graders tied for first in science and placed sixth in math. (States can volunteer, as Massachusetts did, to have their students compared with national averages.) The United States as a whole finished tenth. E. D. Hirsch’s Curriculum for Democracy

The structure of our homeschool program is Hirsch's Core Knowledge Sequence as augmented by Bloom's emphasis on true knowledge and critical thought via the Socratic method with biblical orthodoxy as the underlying foundation of that which is true, beautiful and virtuous. In toto, our system is guided by the Pauline elucidation of the Imago Dei in Romans; that is to say, the rational forms and logical categories of human cognition are those of God endowed on us. To faithfully follow where the imperatives of logic and mathematics lead is to explore the mind of God.

My wife brilliantly summarized our approach: In all things, we shall explore the mind of God where the journey never ends.

That's our little school's motto. So far we have four students: my wife and I, our five-year-old boy, our three-year-old girl and one on the way.

 

[Ringtone]

How does this apply to current public education? What do you find objectionable that actually is being done in public schools and want to see changed? Do you want to see more rote learning? An end to encouraging students to ask questions and develop their own ideas?

Children don't know anything to begin with, and can't think anything worthwhile without a clear understanding of the universally objective, structural imperatives of human cognition.

 

[irosie91]

The "biblical worldview" thing is a notion of fundamentalist Christians. It is sectarian.

The issue is individual liberty, the perspective of the individual, you mindless conformist, you statist bootlick. What don't you understand about the inalienable rights of each and every individual?

Lysistrata summarized: Collectivist think. Group think. Mob think. Leftist think. Statist think.

Who or what beat the liberty out of you? Was it your mommy? The state schools? Popular culture?

So you are afraid of people who think for themselves? Sorry, sicko. I think that you are trying to turn Americans of all faiths and no faith into cookie-cutter conformists led by the likes of frankie graham, jeffress, timmy dolan. You sound like you follow these monkeys.

you got something against the idea of a
"STATE RELIGION" Lysie? I kinda agree that our school children should be taught that the concept of a "state religion" STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN and is the creation of vile and
disgusting people. A school quiz could include such "fill in the blanks" as-----"name five vile and disgusting nations that profess a state religion and recognize and implement a specific religious code of law"

 

[JoeB131]

It is also true that--thank GOD--NY is not America. In fact, I have been to over half of US states and NY is the ONLY US city so far I never, ever want to visit again. I barely recognized my country there. Sadly.

Too many Darkies there, amiright?

 

[irosie91]

Nooo Yawk ain't so bad

 

[Ringtone]

You are a moron who has a very limited vocabulary. Try using something other than right-wing hysterical jargon. Please specify which Christian sect you are in. If you want your kids to have an education in your sect, why don't you send them to a sect school?

There is no such thing as "natural and constitutional law" requiring anything to do with education. If you don't like what the public has to offer, you are free to choose alternatives. Are you so ignorant that you do not know that people home-school their kids or send them to religious-operated schools?

BTW: what is so wrong with public schools? What would you like to see in the curriculum in public schools?

My children are homeschooled by two summa cum laude graduates. Granted we received that honor from state schools of middling rank, but, still, not too bad for students who worked in their families' struggling businesses after school and were hobbled by right-wing jargon.

As for the thought expressed in this garbled sentence: "There is no such thing as 'natural and constitutional law' requiring anything to do with education."

So your theory is that the state can impose whatever educratic regime it pleases on the people, can just violate parental consent and authority at will?

Oh, wait! You're a statist bootlick. Of course that's what you believe.