Thanks Democrats! In 47 Of 50 Cities, Obamacare Will Be Unaffordable In 2018 By Law's Definition

[Steve_McGarrett]

The Democrats are saying they want to work to "fix Obamacare". What they are really saying is "we do not care about the health of Americans, we just want to make sure that we don't take any blame for the Obamacare catastrophe". On top of many on the alt-left who want to see socialism expand of course.

No, what they're saying is that Conservatives have done everything in their power to undermine the law; from eliminating CSR's, to refusing to expand Medicaid, not because of any economic or fiscal reasons, but because Obama's name is on it and you just can't handle the fact that he accomplished something. So you play pretend that Obamacare is this terrible thing because that's the only way you can be heard in this discussion. So you invent characters who have been negatively affected by it, or grossly exaggerate or outright lie about it's effects on you personally.

We all remember Julie Boonstra...and because of Julie Boonstra, we cannot take anything Conservatives say about the ACA's effects at face value. After all, if you're willing to lie about something, then refuse to believe actual facts, you're not a serious person and your criticism and complaints aren't serious.

Something this deeply ingrained, dependent on government debt and future generations revenue is not fixable in a capitalist system. It has to be deeply altered

Can you explain why government debt is a bad thing? And why would your children and grandchildren pay for the debts? Government debt doesn't have an expiration because the government isn't an entity that dies. Meaning, when an individual dies, there's a debt left over...but government doesn't die. So exactly when does the debt have to be paid? Never. We've had government debt since the 1840's at varying levels of %-of-GDP. None of what you say today about debt happened the last 170 years. So why would it suddenly start happening today (or generations down the line as you predict)?

Oh my, debt doesn't die? How do you propose it will be repaid at all when it reaches $40, 50, 100 trillion!? It's not the debt that will die, it's the economy power and the U.S dollar that will. If you think Western values and America is beholden to China now, just wait until the debt becomes too great a number to be lowered.

The debt that took over a hundred years to accumulate took just 8 short years to double. That's the problem. The growth rate is astounding and unsustainable. Just look at Ontario. This province is headed to insolvency sooner rather than later. There are many who share your view here who are not so comfortable right now.

Breaking Update!

TRUMP on Track to Make History! – Lowest Debt Increase of Any US President in 40 Years!

 

[JGalt]

In case you haven't noticed yet, we podunk, red state mouthbreathers have taken control of the Presidency, the House, the Senate, the majority of State Governorships, and a huge number of local offices. That's no way to speak to you overlords.

Only because you had to turn to Russia for help, or you had to gerrymander, or you had to suppress votes, all because you can't win elections based on the merits of your ideas.

And with all that political power, what have you accomplished? FUCKIN' NOTHING.

You couldn't even repeal Obamacare, after promising to do so for 7 fucking years.

What a waste.

Bullshit! How about providing some proof that Russia had anything to do with the election? Even the special investigators have nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

It's you Democrats who have nothing to offer, which is the reason you lost. You have no plan, no solutions, and no platform other than kowtowing to the fringe element of society.

You can sit in your safe and insulated little world believing that that Trump hasn't accomplished anything yet, but that's only because you're uninformed. He has made huge strides in dismantling Obama's disastrous legacy, one piece at a time. Which is fine with me.

 

[Steve_McGarrett]

In case you haven't noticed yet, we podunk, red state mouthbreathers have taken control of the Presidency, the House, the Senate, the majority of State Governorships, and a huge number of local offices. That's no way to speak to you overlords.

Only because you had to turn to Russia for help, or you had to gerrymander, or you had to suppress votes, all because you can't win elections based on the merits of your ideas.

And with all that political power, what have you accomplished? FUCKIN' NOTHING.

You couldn't even repeal Obamacare, after promising to do so for 7 fucking years.

What a waste.

Yes, we won the election on ideals, the nationalist populist ideology of the silent White majority.

 

[shockedcanadian]

The Democrats are saying they want to work to "fix Obamacare". What they are really saying is "we do not care about the health of Americans, we just want to make sure that we don't take any blame for the Obamacare catastrophe". On top of many on the alt-left who want to see socialism expand of course.

No, what they're saying is that Conservatives have done everything in their power to undermine the law; from eliminating CSR's, to refusing to expand Medicaid, not because of any economic or fiscal reasons, but because Obama's name is on it and you just can't handle the fact that he accomplished something. So you play pretend that Obamacare is this terrible thing because that's the only way you can be heard in this discussion. So you invent characters who have been negatively affected by it, or grossly exaggerate or outright lie about it's effects on you personally.

We all remember Julie Boonstra...and because of Julie Boonstra, we cannot take anything Conservatives say about the ACA's effects at face value. After all, if you're willing to lie about something, then refuse to believe actual facts, you're not a serious person and your criticism and complaints aren't serious.

Something this deeply ingrained, dependent on government debt and future generations revenue is not fixable in a capitalist system. It has to be deeply altered

Can you explain why government debt is a bad thing? And why would your children and grandchildren pay for the debts? Government debt doesn't have an expiration because the government isn't an entity that dies. Meaning, when an individual dies, there's a debt left over...but government doesn't die. So exactly when does the debt have to be paid? Never. We've had government debt since the 1840's at varying levels of %-of-GDP. None of what you say today about debt happened the last 170 years. So why would it suddenly start happening today (or generations down the line as you predict)?

Oh my, debt doesn't die? How do you propose it will be repaid at all when it reaches $40, 50, 100 trillion!? It's not the debt that will die, it's the economy power and the U.S dollar that will. If you think Western values and America is beholden to China now, just wait until the debt becomes too great a number to be lowered.

The debt that took over a hundred years to accumulate took just 8 short years to double. That's the problem. The growth rate is astounding and unsustainable. Just look at Ontario. This province is headed to insolvency sooner rather than later. There are many who share your view here who are not so comfortable right now.

Breaking Update!

TRUMP on Track to Make History! – Lowest Debt Increase of Any US President in 40 Years!

A bit skewed because Obama was saddled with the great financial collapse, though over his full term Obama was an abysmal economist. I hope there is a year in Trumps term when the debt is actually lowered. I tell you, if he did that he would have every libertarian vote in the country.

With his freeze on fed hiring and his penny pinching eye on the bottom line; as all great businessmen have (just ask Warren Buffett), I think it's possible.

 

[The Derp]

Oh my, debt doesn't die? How do you propose it will be repaid at all when it reaches $40, 50, 100 trillion!?

Of course, you leave out that GDP also reaches those same heights. So you're trying to pretend that our economy doesn't grow, when it does. So you keep trying to scare people with big numbers without fully grasping what those numbers actually mean.

And also, you're the shitheads who tripled the debt during Reagan, grew it by 50% during Bush the Elder, and nearly doubled it during Bush the Dumber...so your debt pea-cocking falls on deaf ears when your entire fiscal policy relies on deficit financing.

It's not the debt that will die, it's the economy power and the U.S dollar that will.

No, it won't. If it didn't when you shitheads tanked the global economy in 2007-8, it's not going to now. So you're making unfounded predictions based on what? Based on nothing. It's just empty, hollow, debt fearmongering as you try to convince us to push through deficit-financed tax cut policies, like the latest one from Trump and the Conservatives, who seem to be giving everyone a case of Deja Vu with their attempts to do trickle-down economics yet again for the umpteenth time. I guess the thinking is that it has to work eventually, right? No one can go 0-for-infinity.

f you think Western values and America is beholden to China now, just wait until the debt becomes too great a number to be lowered.

It's not beholden to China now. In fact, China is more beholden to us than we are to it. We and the EU are China's two largest trading partners. Their economy sustains on exports to those two (and a housing bubble which China is also in now). Furthermore, China isn't going to be able to sustain their growth and unlike us, they have a larger segment of their population entering into retirement and benefits than the segment entering their workforce. We have the largest workforce ever (Millennials) now firmly entrenched in our workforce. Those Millennials and Gen Xers are going to be able to pay for the Boomer's entitlements. China doesn't have that. Their Millennial and Gen X generations are smaller than the generation now entering retirement age. So China's problems are pretty foreboding. They're going to need the US as an export partner and can't upset that apple cart. So they'll never call in their debts because doing so would result in a trade war that they simply don't have the longevity to win. That's why Trump's China policy is so bipolar.

The debt that took over a hundred years to accumulate took just 8 short years to double.

And prior to Obama, the debt that took over a hundred years to accumulate took just 8 years to double during Bush. And prior to Clinton and Bush the Elder, the debt that took over a hundred years to accumulate took just 8 years to triple during Reagan. So it's hard to see the sincerity of your argument now when two of the past three Republican Presidents also exploded debt beyond what it took to accumulate it.

Perspective is lacking from your posts. Is that by design?

That's the problem. The growth rate is astounding and unsustainable. Just look at Ontario. This province is headed to insolvency sooner rather than later. There are many who share your view here who are not so comfortable right now.

Economic growth has nothing to do with debt. The only way debt could have any effect on growth is if interest rates were raised. But the only entity trying to raise interest rates is the Fed, which is bizarre because we have very little inflation right now. So it feels like the Fed raising rates is about something else...

 

[Care4all]

In case you haven't noticed yet, we podunk, red state mouthbreathers have taken control of the Presidency, the House, the Senate, the majority of State Governorships, and a huge number of local offices. That's no way to speak to you overlords.

Only because you had to turn to Russia for help, or you had to gerrymander, or you had to suppress votes, all because you can't win elections based on the merits of your ideas.

And with all that political power, what have you accomplished? FUCKIN' NOTHING.

You couldn't even repeal Obamacare, after promising to do so for 7 fucking years.

What a waste.

Bullshit! How about providing some proof that Russia had anything to do with the election? Even the special investigators have nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

It's you Democrats who have nothing to offer, which is the reason you lost. You have no plan, no solutions, and no platform other than kowtowing to the fringe element of society.

You can sit in your safe and insulated little world believing that that Trump hasn't accomplished anything yet, but that's only because you're uninformed. He has made huge strides in dismantling Obama's disastrous legacy, one piece at a time. Which is fine with me.

you don't hire 16 of the most experienced and best prosecutors in the nation, ''for just nothing''....

it may not directly involve President Trump, but something REALLY BIG is going on in this investigation, behind the scenes...

 

[The Derp]

A bit skewed because Obama was saddled with the great financial collapse, though over his full term Obama was an abysmal economist.

Obama had the same growth rate over his term Bush had - 1.76%. The difference is that Obama created over 11 million net private sector jobs, whereas Bush lost net 460,000. Obama left office with a growing economy, Bush left office with an economy in free fall. Obama left office with a stock market above 20,000, Bush left office with a stock market that collapsed to 6,500.

You say Obama was an "abysmal economist", but if we're using your guy (Bush the Dumber) as the bar to measure, Obama exceeds him. Obama created more jobs than both Bushes combined. And he did it while slashing the deficit to 2/3 from where Bush left it. Oh yeah, that too...Bush left office with a $1.4T deficit. Obama left office with about a $450B deficit.

I hope there is a year in Trumps term when the debt is actually lowered.

It will never happen because the Conservative fiscal plan is to pass tax cuts that will be deficit-financed because we're promised -yet again- that they will pay for themselves in increased economic activity. Please. Spare us the bullshit. That's been the prediction the last 37 years and it never came to pass. So why would it start now?

I tell you, if he did that he would have every libertarian vote in the country.

Libertarians are like house cats; completely convinced of their own independence, yet wholly dependent on others to survive.

With his freeze on fed hiring and his penny pinching eye on the bottom line; as all great businessmen have (just ask Warren Buffett), I think it's possible.

His freese on hiring is precisely why the folks in Puerto Rico are suffering. He hasn't even named a FEMA director, 8 months into his term. Shameful. Laziness is not something to celebrate.

 

[The Derp]

Yes, we won the election on ideals, the nationalist populist ideology of the silent White majority.

Minority. Trump got 3,000,000 less votes than Clinton.

 

[The Derp]

Oh my, debt doesn't die?

Not government debt, no. Government isn't a person. People die. Governments don't. We've carried a debt load since the 1840's, are we to believe that carrying a debt load now is a thing to be concerned about? Pfft. Save your bullshit for someone stupid enough to believe it.

How do you propose it will be repaid at all when it reaches $40, 50, 100 trillion!?

That's the thing, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE REPAID. Also, the bulk of that debt is owed to ourselves. And if the debt load reaches $40, $50, $100T, the economy's size is also $40, $50, $100T...because the economy grows, ya know. So a debt load of $40T could look foreboding, but if GDP is also $40T, then it looks less bad. So long as our economy grows faster than our debt, there's really nothing to worry about. And even in that scenario, it's not something that worries us or harms economic growth. I think you're just trying to scare people with big numbers so you can achieve the spending cuts you lack the support or courage to push through via legislation. So you pass tax cut plans you know will grow the debt and deficit for the only purpose of manufacturing a budget crisis you can feign concern over in order to slash spending you are ideologically opposed to, but are too chickenshit try to cut on your own.

You practice fiscal terrorism; deliberately manufacture deficits in order to push through an unpopular, ideological social agenda. We see right through your crap. You're not even doing that good a job of hiding the intent.

It's not the debt that will die, it's the economic power and the U.S dollar that will. If you think Western values and America is beholden to China now, just wait until the debt becomes too great a number to be lowered. The push for an alternative currency will gain so much traction that it just might succeed and Americas influence will be greatly hampered.

We aren't beholden to China; they are beholden to us. Without US exports, China's economy enters free fall and the working generation cannot provide for those entering retirements and entitlements. China's demographic problem only forces them to be better trading partners to us...they have much more to lose than we do. We have a manufacturing base capability, and they have a demographic tidal wave that is going to unbalance their budget. That's why they're inflating a housing bubble and pouring money into green energy...they need the economic activity to sustain the commitments they made to their people.

 

[The Derp]

There's no evidence of Russian Collusion.

Yes there certainly is...a Paul Ryan-linked Super PAC in Florida was caught coordinating with Russian hackers to get the info they hacked from the Democrats to then use in campaigns in key districts. Like the one in Florida that resulted in a Republican winning because the PAC working for him was supplied by Russia with hacked documents from Tadeo, who was his opponent.

There is no question Russia colluded with Conservatives...the question is; to what degree?

 

[The Derp]

TRUMP on Track to Make History! – Lowest Debt Increase of Any US President in 40 Years!

Obama's fiscal year runs September 2016 - September 2017.

So it's not Trump who deserves thanks, it's Obama.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Oh my, debt doesn't die?

Not government debt, no. Government isn't a person. People die. Governments don't. We've carried a debt load since the 1840's, are we to believe that carrying a debt load now is a thing to be concerned about? Pfft. Save your bullshit for someone stupid enough to believe it.

How do you propose it will be repaid at all when it reaches $40, 50, 100 trillion!?

That's the thing, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE REPAID. Also, the bulk of that debt is owed to ourselves. And if the debt load reaches $40, $50, $100T, the economy's size is also $40, $50, $100T...because the economy grows, ya know. So a debt load of $40T could look foreboding, but if GDP is also $40T, then it looks less bad. So long as our economy grows faster than our debt, there's really nothing to worry about. And even in that scenario, it's not something that worries us or harms economic growth. I think you're just trying to scare people with big numbers so you can achieve the spending cuts you lack the support or courage to push through via legislation. So you pass tax cut plans you know will grow the debt and deficit for the only purpose of manufacturing a budget crisis you can feign concern over in order to slash spending you are ideologically opposed to, but are too chickenshit try to cut on your own.

You practice fiscal terrorism; deliberately manufacture deficits in order to push through an unpopular, ideological social agenda. We see right through your crap. You're not even doing that good a job of hiding the intent.

It's not the debt that will die, it's the economic power and the U.S dollar that will. If you think Western values and America is beholden to China now, just wait until the debt becomes too great a number to be lowered. The push for an alternative currency will gain so much traction that it just might succeed and Americas influence will be greatly hampered.

We aren't beholden to China; they are beholden to us. Without US exports, China's economy enters free fall and the working generation cannot provide for those entering retirements and entitlements. China's demographic problem only forces them to be better trading partners to us...they have much more to lose than we do. We have a manufacturing base capability, and they have a demographic tidal wave that is going to unbalance their budget. That's why they're inflating a housing bubble and pouring money into green energy...they need the economic activity to sustain the commitments they made to their people.

The economy is not even close to keeping up with the debt increase. I hope from the bottom of my heart Trump is able to accomplish this and I know he understands that it will require the lowering of debt AND increased growth in the economy. This is why his America First policies are vital, but if we looked at historical rates, the growth in the economy is not even close to the debt increase.

In 1929, debt was 16% of GDP, now it's 104% (it was 105% in 2016, so thank Trump policies again for decreasing it 1 full percent).

See How the U.S. Debt Tripled Since 9/11

Now, Trump is sharper in his eye for talent than people give him credit for (often overlooked by people) and he has surrounded himself with some very good leaders. I've expressed this before, but in my opinion, Wilbur Ross as Secretary of Commerce is his best choice. That's saying alot when he is surrounded by excellent people like Tillerson, Mattis and Nikki Haley among others.

Ross is not only one who is crafty and sharp, but he is not one you can b.s. I've followed him closely and have been quite impressed with his understanding of macro and microeconomics and the challenges facing America.

One of the best comments he made, and I paraphrase, is that "it's not fair that America has the burden of absorbing such an excessive amount of debt for the sake of the global economy." Absolutely correct. If America wants to remain sovereign and solvent, this has to change.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Govt has more blame than anything in this healthcare bullshit and retarded statists want to hand them the entire industry. WTF

Yeah, that used to blow my mind until I one day I had an epiphany and realized that the majority of people are stupid and now I'm not nearly as shocked anymore.

 

[TNHarley]

Govt has more blame than anything in this healthcare bullshit and retarded statists want to hand them the entire industry. WTF

Yeah, that used to blow my mind until I one day I had an epiphany and realized that the majority of people are stupid and now I'm not nearly as shocked anymore.

lol right?

 

[The Derp]

lol right?

What's baffling to me is that you have all this fear-mongering about single payer health care, yet you're totally OK with the lack of competition in health care today thanks to insurance companies.

It proves this isn't even about health care for you, this is about your own personal inherent biases. Biases that seem to have been informed by 37 year old rhetoric from a long-dead Alzheimer's patient and his cadre of fradusters, phonies, and those in a permanent state of arrested development.

Funny how you don't hear Laffer's name anymore after the disaster that was Kansas.

 

[The Derp]

The economy is not even close to keeping up with the debt increase.

It actually has since 2013, same time Obama let the Bush Tax Cuts expire on the top 1%. Remember that? Back at the end of 2012, you all guaranteed it would result in higher deficits, less economic activity, job loss, a market crash, and the sky falling. Absolutely none of those predictions came to pass. 2013 was Obama's best economic year...even with Ted Cruz shutting down the government and costing the economy about $30B.

So since you all were dead wrong about your predictions just four years ago, why the fuck would you be right today?

 

[shockedcanadian]

TRUMP on Track to Make History! – Lowest Debt Increase of Any US President in 40 Years!

Obama's fiscal year runs September 2016 - September 2017.

So it's not Trump who deserves thanks, it's Obama.

Now there's some revisionism. Was Obama the one who placed a hiring freeze on federal workers? Or renegotiated deals? Or drove the stockmarket to not just record heights, but record sustained heights.

Maybe Obama walked away from the tax stealing Paris Accord. Or demanded companies bidding on government projects lower their profit margins. Hell, Trump is even calling out the cost of the fence upgrade around the WH and the excessive spending on flights from his Health Minister.

THAT'S looking out for the taxpayer. That's a guy who has overseen expensive building projects and has an eye for when he is being screwed with excessive costs. If ever there was time for a business person in the WH, it's now.

 

[TNHarley]

lol right?

What's baffling to me is that you have all this fear-mongering about single payer health care, yet you're totally OK with the lack of competition in health care today thanks to insurance companies.

It proves this isn't even about health care for you, this is about your own personal inherent biases. Biases that seem to have been informed by 37 year old rhetoric from a long-dead Alzheimer's patient and his cadre of fradusters, phonies, and those in a permanent state of arrested development.

Funny how you don't hear Laffer's name anymore after the disaster that was Kansas.

look you tunnel vision nincompoop, i dont like reagan. I dont give two shits what he said. He was a disaster.
My problem is the government taking over healthcare is unconstitutional. The govt is a huge corrupt failure so why on this green earth would i want them to take control of my healthcare?
The government being a corrupt failure isnt a damn conspiracy. If we were talking about something else, you would probably agree. You are just another broken record hack.

 

[The Derp]

I hope from the bottom of my heart Trump is able to accomplish this and I know he understands that it will require the lowering of debt AND increased growth in the economy.

First of all, debt growth isn't intrinsically linked to economic growth. Second of all, Trump and the Conservatives will never be able to reduce the deficit or increase growth because their taxation policies are entirely deficit-financed and rely on faith. That's why Reagan tripled the debt and had worse average job growth than Carter not to mention a painful recession that started months after the tax cut was passed. That's why Bush the Elder raised taxes, costing him re-election, because Reagan tripled the debt and left behind a deficit that was double what it was that he got from Carter. That's why Bush the Dumber's tax cuts erased a surplus and produced 4 record deficits in 8 years that doubled the debt and cost 460,000 net jobs. That's why Kansas repealed their Brownback Tax Cuts and now have surpluses when they didn't because of the tax cuts.

Tax cuts have never and will never pay for themselves. That's the biggest Conservative lie there is. It's a zombie lie. One that need to be put down by Rick Grimes.

 

[shockedcanadian]

The economy is not even close to keeping up with the debt increase.

It actually has since 2013, same time Obama let the Bush Tax Cuts expire on the top 1%. Remember that? Back at the end of 2012, you all guaranteed it would result in higher deficits, less economic activity, job loss, a market crash, and the sky falling. Absolutely none of those predictions came to pass. 2013 was Obama's best economic year...even with Ted Cruz shutting down the government and costing the economy about $30B.

So since you all were dead wrong about your predictions just four years ago, why the fuck would you be right today?

Listen, taking debt solely for the purpose of "creating jobs" and giving handouts and grants to businesses is not great economic policy. The size of the government in the U.S has become too excessive and a drag on the economy.

I recall when Obama was running in 2012, he told Romney that "government has to create jobs" and Romney told him accurately, "it's not the governments job to create jobs, that's the free markets job". It was the first debate in which Obama lost handedly, and you could see he had no response.

As much as Romney may not be the right guy to be president, I wish he would have accepted Obamas offer to work with the economy or commerce (I forget what he was offered), but Romney refused.

I don't dislike Obama, but I have many issues with his economic policies, after the first year. I could give him some leeway for propping up the economy in 2008 and early 2009. He never stopped drinking the punch from that trough and it hurt America.