The Democrats effectively damaged the "Impeachment process."

[The2ndAmendment]

First of all, let's be real: Politics is a dirty business.

If Jesus Christ, or a modern day monk, ran for any political office, they wouldn't even make the first step of becoming a candidate. Never mind a nominee for that office, or ultimately the winner of the election.

Our Founders were well read in Machiavelli's "The Prince," and the philosophical dynamics of love, respect and fear, as well as the economic effects of free markets, the politics effects of various forms of government, and industrial effects of net imports and exports, subdivided into the general categories of "raw materials, food and manufactured goods."

In order to succeed in politics you have to forge successful political CONNECTIONS to other people in power, and to do so you must wield some POWER of your own. Forging these connections is done on a local level, in the quagmire of special interests, corporate, private and public.

It has been that way since the dawn of time and always will. Such is nature of power. We don't vote for the best person to hold office, we vote for the best person among those who are presented as our choices on ballot, and the initial process of getting "on the ballot" starts in shadows in "smoke filled rooms." At most the people get to decide who the nominees will be for certain offices, but that is the maximum extent of our collective political power.

So, to be successful in politics requires a great multitude of forged connections, many of which are done illicitly and in violation of the law. All politicians are guilty of corruption, because to succeed in politics one must be corrupt.

There are varying degrees of corruption, and the cleanest politicians are those that only engage in corrupt activities when necessary. If Jesus Christ wanted to make a difference, he'd have to be corrupt in some way. Such is the nature of politics.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As such, the Impeachment process was a political remedy for a President who went beyond normal confines of political corruption; it was for a President who became a danger to the idea of a Federalist Republic (our Federalist Republic is system designed to keep individual and CORRUPT factions from becoming too powerful, by forcing them to compete with each other within a limited set of tools and powers and restraints codified by the Constitution).

The thought of using the Impeachment process to impugn any President (a corrupt politician) for his corrupt transgressions that occur in natural and daily flow of being a POLITICIAN is precisely why the COURTS were not the vehicle chosen to ADJUDICATE an impeachment.

If the courts got to adjudicate impeachment hearings/trials...EVERY POLITICIAN IN CONGRESS and EVERY PRESIDENT ON THE UNITED STATES would be found guilty. Our system would fall apart, because our system recognizes that politics is CORRUPT by nature. Our system is designed to curb and limit corruption, not eliminate it. That cannot be done.

Yet the Democrats decided to use the Impeachment process against a President who did not pose a threat to our Federalist Republican way of government. They attempted to use it against (at best) petty crimes/corruption (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for this discourse). By that standard, every politician in DC and every President since and including George Washington should have been impeached, because politics is a DIRTY BUSINESS. PERIOD.
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now let us suppose a truly horrible person became President, one who threatened our Federalist Republic...the Impeachment process has now been weakened FOREVER by the 2018 Democrats since they made Party-line adjudication of the process the norm. 52-48 was the vote in the Senate. A party-line vote.

This is result of trying to wield the impeachment process (which requires 2/3 of the Senate) like a simple 51% piece of legislation. They have made a mockery of one our of most important tools: Impeachment. A tool reserved for GRAVE circumstances.

I now fear that if the Impeachment process were ACTUALLY NEEDED, that that silly partisan precedent (and usage) of Impeachment set by the 2018 Democrats will severely impair the effort and chance of success of such a NECESSARY impeachment in our nation's future.

GJ Dems! You may have just fucked our chances of impeaching a literal Hitler in the coming decades.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

And now I see Democrats afraid that Trump and other Republicans will "strike back," with their own investigations and impeachments? Will of course, YOU OPENED PANDORA"S BOX YOU FUCKING RETARDS. ALL POLITICIANS ARE CORRUPT, THEY HAVE TO BE TO SUCCEED YOU FUCKING RETARDS.

This is what you Democrats did:

Pandora's Box.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Added poll, changed the word "nullified" to "damaged" in title.

PoliticalChic
The Purge

Personally, I think this impeachment was intended by the Deep State to be a super long-term effort to destabilize our Constitution and its impeachment clause as a remedy against any whacko leaders they appoint to the Presidency (Hillary, Romney, Paul Ryan, Buttplug, etc).

 

[task0778]

I think the question is how any seats will the Dems lose in the House come November for bringing a partisan impeachment against Trump. If they lose the House, as they should IMHO, then future pols might be more leery of politicizing a partisan impeachment with insufficient grounds in the future. It's all politics, and if it appears it's a losing proposition politically then they won't do it. Hopefully. OTOH, if the Dems come out of it unscathed and keep their House majority, then it'll be at least 2 more years of witch-hunts.

 

[alang1216]

First of all, let's be real: Politics is a dirty business.

If Jesus Christ, or a modern day monk, ran for any political office, they wouldn't even make the first step of becoming a candidate. Never mind a nominee for that office, or ultimately the winner of the election.

Our Founders were well read in Machiavelli's "The Prince," and the philosophical dynamics of love, respect and fear, as well as the economic effects of free markets, the politics effects of various forms of government, and industrial effects of net imports and exports, subdivided into the general categories of "raw materials, food and manufactured goods."

In order to succeed in politics you have to forge successful political CONNECTIONS to other people in power, and to do so you must wield some POWER of your own. Forging these connections is done on a local level, in the quagmire of special interests, corporate, private and public.

It has been that way since the dawn of time and always will. Such is nature of power. We don't vote for the best person to hold office, we vote for the best person among those who are presented as our choices on ballot, and the initial process of getting "on the ballot" starts in shadows in "smoke filled rooms." At most the people get to decide who the nominees will be for certain offices, but that is the maximum extent of our collective political power.

So, to be successful in politics requires a great multitude of forged connections, many of which are done illicitly and in violation of the law. All politicians are guilty of corruption, because to succeed in politics one must be corrupt.

There are varying degrees of corruption, and the cleanest politicians are those that only engage in corrupt activities when necessary. If Jesus Christ wanted to make a difference, he'd have to be corrupt in some way. Such is the nature of politics.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As such, the Impeachment process was a political remedy for a President who went beyond normal confines of political corruption; it was for a President who became a danger to the idea of a Federalist Republic (our Federalist Republic is system designed to keep individual and CORRUPT factions from becoming too powerful, by forcing them to compete with each other within a limited set of tools and powers and restraints codified by the Constitution).

The thought of using the Impeachment process to impugn any President (a corrupt politician) for his corrupt transgressions that occur in natural and daily flow of being a POLITICIAN is precisely why the COURTS were not the vehicle chosen to ADJUDICATE an impeachment.

If the courts got to adjudicate impeachment hearings/trials...EVERY POLITICIAN IN CONGRESS and EVERY PRESIDENT ON THE UNITED STATES would be found guilty. Our system would fall apart, because our system recognizes that politics is CORRUPT by nature. Our system is designed to curb and limit corruption, not eliminate it. That cannot be done.

Yet the Democrats decided to use the Impeachment process against a President who did not pose a threat to our Federalist Republican way of government. They attempted to use it against (at best) petty crimes/corruption. By that standard, every politician in DC and every President since and including George Washington should have been impeached, because politics is a DIRTY BUSINESS. PERIOD.
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now let us suppose a truly horrible person became President, one who threatened our Federalist Republic...the Impeachment process has now been weakened FOREVER by the 2018 Democrats since they made Party-line adjudication of the process the norm. 52-48 was the vote in the Senate. A party-line vote.

This is result of trying to wield the impeachment process (which requires 2/3 of the Senate) like a simple 51% piece of legislation. They have made a mockery of one our of most important tools: Impeachment. A tool reserved for GRAVE circumstances.

I now fear that if the Impeachment process were ACTUALLY NEEDED, that that silly partisan precedent (and usage) of Impeachment set by the 2018 Democrats will severely impair the effort and chance of success of such a NECESSARY impeachment in our nation's future.

GJ Dems! You may have just fucked our chances of impeaching a literal Hitler in the coming decades.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

And now I see Democrats afraid that Trump and other Republicans will "strike back," with their own investigations and impeachments? Will of course, YOU OPENED PANDORA"S BOX YOU FUCKING RETARDS. ALL POLITICIANS ARE CORRUPT, THEY HAVE TO BE TO SUCCEED YOU FUCKING RETARDS.

This is what you Democrats did:

Pandora's Box.

I think it is the GOP that has damaged the process. When the whistle blower came forward, an investigation was warranted and that is what the Dems tried to do. The President, with the support of the GOP, refused any and all cooperation. What that means is that no future president will ever cooperate so no future Congress will ever be able to impeach any future President for any reason. Can you spell tyranny?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I think the question is how any seats will the Dems lose in the House come November for bringing a partisan impeachment against Trump. If they lose the House, as they should IMHO, then future pols might be more leery of politicizing a partisan impeachment with insufficient grounds in the future. It's all politics, and if it appears it's a losing proposition politically then they won't do it. Hopefully. OTOH, if the Dems come out of it unscathed and keep their House majority, then it'll be at least 2 more years of witch-hunts.

If the Dems retain their House majority, yes, the witch-hunt paradigm will be forever part of our future, when either PARTY controls the house against the opposing party's president.

Impeachments will occur regularly for the purpose of grandstanding and free political airtime (for both parties), instead of actually removing a President. And when the day comes that a DANGEROUS PRESIDENT (a literal Hitler) must be removed from office...nope, because the Impeachment process has been forever relegated to a grandstanding mockery.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I think it is the GOP that has damaged the process. When the whistle blower came forward, an investigation was warranted and that is what the Dems tried to do. The President, with the support of the GOP, refused any and all cooperation. What that means is that no future president will ever cooperate so no future Congress will ever be able to impeach any future President for any reason. Can you spell tyranny?

You obviously didn't read the OP.

I even gave the Dems the "benefit of the doubt" (as worded in my OP) that their allegations were true for the sake of the OP. Such minor transgressions are hardly worth impeaching a President over. If we set that low a standard, every Member of Congress, past, present and future, as well as every President and Federal Judge must be impeached and convicted. You're advocating to open "Pandora's Box," where our entire political system collapses.

Politics is a dirty business. Impeachment isn't there to sweep away the dirt, it's there to stop a mudslide.

 

[alang1216]

I think it is the GOP that has damaged the process. When the whistle blower came forward, an investigation was warranted and that is what the Dems tried to do. The President, with the support of the GOP, refused any and all cooperation. What that means is that no future president will ever cooperate so no future Congress will ever be able to impeach any future President for any reason. Can you spell tyranny?

You obviously didn't read the OP.

I even gave the Dems the "benefit of the doubt" (as worded in my OP) that their allegations were true for the sake of the OP. Such minor transgressions are hardly worth impeaching a President over. If we set that low a standard, every Member of Congress, past, present and future, as well as every President and Federal Judge must be impeached and convicted. You're advocating to open "Pandora's Box," where our entire political system collapses.

Politics is a dirty business. Impeachment isn't there to sweep away the dirt, it's there to stop a mudslide.

You're right, I didn't read the OP but my point stands. It doesn't matter if you disagree with the standard the Dems initially used to justify starting an investigation, that is still their right. The fact that Trump was able to ignore any oversight is what has damaged the process.

A President who is willing to abuse his power for his personal gain, in this case to influence an election, does indeed pose a threat to our Federalist Republican way of government. If Trump had initially cooperated and shown there was nothing more behind the initial allegations, maybe the House would have voted No on the two articles of impeachment, we'll never know.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I think it is the GOP that has damaged the process. When the whistle blower came forward, an investigation was warranted and that is what the Dems tried to do. The President, with the support of the GOP, refused any and all cooperation. What that means is that no future president will ever cooperate so no future Congress will ever be able to impeach any future President for any reason. Can you spell tyranny?

You obviously didn't read the OP.

I even gave the Dems the "benefit of the doubt" (as worded in my OP) that their allegations were true for the sake of the OP. Such minor transgressions are hardly worth impeaching a President over. If we set that low a standard, every Member of Congress, past, present and future, as well as every President and Federal Judge must be impeached and convicted. You're advocating to open "Pandora's Box," where our entire political system collapses.

Politics is a dirty business. Impeachment isn't there to sweep away the dirt, it's there to stop a mudslide.

You're right, I didn't read the OP but my point stands. It doesn't matter if you disagree with the standard the Dems initially used to justify starting an investigation, that is still their right. The fact that Trump was able to ignore any oversight is what has damaged the process.

A President who is willing to abuse his power for his personal gain, in this case to influence an election, does indeed pose a threat to our Federalist Republican way of government. If Trump had initially cooperated and shown there was nothing more behind the initial allegations, maybe the House would have voted No on the two articles of impeachment, we'll never know.

Bill Clinton's impeachment was also misuse of the Impeachment, even if Clinton comitted the crimes of which he was accused, those crimes didn't threaten our Republic, and neither did the crimes of which Trump was accused.

A threat to the Republic is the following:

Refusing to release a person from custody acquitted by a jury.
Imprisoning people for announcing or publishing political critiques.
Confiscating firearms of law abiding citizens.
Accepting bribes (foreign or domestic).
Failing to uphold the Guarantee Clause, and not mobilizing our armed forces against a foreign invasion against and within one of the 50 States.
Failing to suppress an insurrection in one of the 50 States.
Enacting Executive Proclamations (instead of enforcing existing law made by Congress).
Refusing to leave office.
Threatening Federal Judges.
etc

 

[alang1216]

I think it is the GOP that has damaged the process. When the whistle blower came forward, an investigation was warranted and that is what the Dems tried to do. The President, with the support of the GOP, refused any and all cooperation. What that means is that no future president will ever cooperate so no future Congress will ever be able to impeach any future President for any reason. Can you spell tyranny?

You obviously didn't read the OP.

I even gave the Dems the "benefit of the doubt" (as worded in my OP) that their allegations were true for the sake of the OP. Such minor transgressions are hardly worth impeaching a President over. If we set that low a standard, every Member of Congress, past, present and future, as well as every President and Federal Judge must be impeached and convicted. You're advocating to open "Pandora's Box," where our entire political system collapses.

Politics is a dirty business. Impeachment isn't there to sweep away the dirt, it's there to stop a mudslide.

You're right, I didn't read the OP but my point stands. It doesn't matter if you disagree with the standard the Dems initially used to justify starting an investigation, that is still their right. The fact that Trump was able to ignore any oversight is what has damaged the process.

A President who is willing to abuse his power for his personal gain, in this case to influence an election, does indeed pose a threat to our Federalist Republican way of government. If Trump had initially cooperated and shown there was nothing more behind the initial allegations, maybe the House would have voted No on the two articles of impeachment, we'll never know.

Bill Clinton's impeachment was also misuse of the Impeachment, even if Clinton comitted the crimes of which he was accused, those crimes didn't threaten our Republic, and neither did the crimes of which Trump was accused.

A threat to the Republic is the following:

Refusing to release a person from custody acquitted by a jury.
Imprisoning people for announcing or publishing political critiques.
Confiscating firearms of law abiding citizens.
Accepting bribes (foreign or domestic).
Failing to uphold the Guarantee Clause, and not mobilizing our armed forces against a foreign invasion against and within one of the 50 States.
Failing to suppress an insurrection in one of the 50 States.
Enacting Executive Proclamations (instead of enforcing existing law made by Congress).
etc

A threat to the Republic is the following:

Accepting bribes (foreign or domestic).​

I think all Dems would agree. Of course not all bribes are cash.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

First of all, let's be real: Politics is a dirty business.

If Jesus Christ, or a modern day monk, ran for any political office, they wouldn't even make the first step of becoming a candidate. Never mind a nominee for that office, or ultimately the winner of the election.

Our Founders were well read in Machiavelli's "The Prince," and the philosophical dynamics of love, respect and fear, as well as the economic effects of free markets, the politics effects of various forms of government, and industrial effects of net imports and exports, subdivided into the general categories of "raw materials, food and manufactured goods."

In order to succeed in politics you have to forge successful political CONNECTIONS to other people in power, and to do so you must wield some POWER of your own. Forging these connections is done on a local level, in the quagmire of special interests, corporate, private and public.

It has been that way since the dawn of time and always will. Such is nature of power. We don't vote for the best person to hold office, we vote for the best person among those who are presented as our choices on ballot, and the initial process of getting "on the ballot" starts in shadows in "smoke filled rooms." At most the people get to decide who the nominees will be for certain offices, but that is the maximum extent of our collective political power.

So, to be successful in politics requires a great multitude of forged connections, many of which are done illicitly and in violation of the law. All politicians are guilty of corruption, because to succeed in politics one must be corrupt.

There are varying degrees of corruption, and the cleanest politicians are those that only engage in corrupt activities when necessary. If Jesus Christ wanted to make a difference, he'd have to be corrupt in some way. Such is the nature of politics.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As such, the Impeachment process was a political remedy for a President who went beyond normal confines of political corruption; it was for a President who became a danger to the idea of a Federalist Republic (our Federalist Republic is system designed to keep individual and CORRUPT factions from becoming too powerful, by forcing them to compete with each other within a limited set of tools and powers and restraints codified by the Constitution).

The thought of using the Impeachment process to impugn any President (a corrupt politician) for his corrupt transgressions that occur in natural and daily flow of being a POLITICIAN is precisely why the COURTS were not the vehicle chosen to ADJUDICATE an impeachment.

If the courts got to adjudicate impeachment hearings/trials...EVERY POLITICIAN IN CONGRESS and EVERY PRESIDENT ON THE UNITED STATES would be found guilty. Our system would fall apart, because our system recognizes that politics is CORRUPT by nature. Our system is designed to curb and limit corruption, not eliminate it. That cannot be done.

Yet the Democrats decided to use the Impeachment process against a President who did not pose a threat to our Federalist Republican way of government. They attempted to use it against (at best) petty crimes/corruption. By that standard, every politician in DC and every President since and including George Washington should have been impeached, because politics is a DIRTY BUSINESS. PERIOD.
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now let us suppose a truly horrible person became President, one who threatened our Federalist Republic...the Impeachment process has now been weakened FOREVER by the 2018 Democrats since they made Party-line adjudication of the process the norm. 52-48 was the vote in the Senate. A party-line vote.

This is result of trying to wield the impeachment process (which requires 2/3 of the Senate) like a simple 51% piece of legislation. They have made a mockery of one our of most important tools: Impeachment. A tool reserved for GRAVE circumstances.

I now fear that if the Impeachment process were ACTUALLY NEEDED, that that silly partisan precedent (and usage) of Impeachment set by the 2018 Democrats will severely impair the effort and chance of success of such a NECESSARY impeachment in our nation's future.

GJ Dems! You may have just fucked our chances of impeaching a literal Hitler in the coming decades.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

And now I see Democrats afraid that Trump and other Republicans will "strike back," with their own investigations and impeachments? Will of course, YOU OPENED PANDORA"S BOX YOU FUCKING RETARDS. ALL POLITICIANS ARE CORRUPT, THEY HAVE TO BE TO SUCCEED YOU FUCKING RETARDS.

This is what you Democrats did:

Pandora's Box.

I think it is the GOP that has damaged the process. When the whistle blower came forward, an investigation was warranted and that is what the Dems tried to do. The President, with the support of the GOP, refused any and all cooperation. What that means is that no future president will ever cooperate so no future Congress will ever be able to impeach any future President for any reason. Can you spell tyranny?

A whistle blower held over from the previous admin with second and third hand accounts should be dismissed immediately. If you or I went to court to testify based on our second, third hand accounts and emotional blather, we'd be thrown in jail.

 

[alang1216]

A whistle blower held over from the previous admin with second and third hand accounts should be dismissed immediately. If you or I went to court to testify based on our second, third hand accounts and emotional blather, we'd be thrown in jail.

Just about everyone in the government or military was held over from the previous admin and his accounts proved accurate. If you or I went to court to testify based on our second or third hand accounts, the court would want to subpoena those with first hand knowledge.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The party line vote simply reflects the the opinion of the party faithful. Public opinion did not rise to support the Democrat nonsense, ergo they lost.

In the case of a president accused of actual crimes supported by evidence, the evidence and public opinion would have led to a bipartisan trial.

In this case, all the Democrats did was duckwalk around the Senate with their pants around their ankles screaming imaginary conjures.