The Employee Free Choice Act.....

[Patriot2009]

really....i know plenty of workers that work for those "evil corporations" and earn more than a living wage and have good benifits and don't pay union dues......and are in control of their own destiny.....

In control of thier own destiny unless they get crossways with a manager intent on getting rid of them so he can put his halfwit brother-in-law in thier spot! They have absolutely no protection even if they're the best worker the company ever had.

What year are you living in ?

1) The manager can still get rid of you and hire his hafwit brother in law.

2) Companies get sued for doing that kind of thing and are scared to death of being sued even when they fire bad employees.

In a union environment, that manager will be required to charge the employee and present his evidence against that employee in a disciplinary hearing before that employee can be fired and then there is almost always an appeal process to be carried out.

And, the vast majority of lawsuits in non-union cases involve some sort of illegal discrimination such as against a woman or an older person. That is what scares employers...because they are usually guilty of the alleged discrimination and face big monetary awards.

 

[driveby]

In control of thier own destiny unless they get crossways with a manager intent on getting rid of them so he can put his halfwit brother-in-law in thier spot! They have absolutely no protection even if they're the best worker the company ever had.

What year are you living in ?

1) The manager can still get rid of you and hire his hafwit brother in law.

2) Companies get sued for doing that kind of thing and are scared to death of being sued even when they fire bad employees.

In a union environment, that manager will be required to charge the employee and present his evidence against that employee in a disciplinary hearing before that employee can be fired and then there is almost always an appeal process to be carried out.

It depends what the offense is, if it's insubordination for example, bye bye. There may be an appeal afterwards, gut good luck with that......

 

[Patriot2009]

In control of thier own destiny unless they get crossways with a manager intent on getting rid of them so he can put his halfwit brother-in-law in thier spot! They have absolutely no protection even if they're the best worker the company ever had.

Do you really believe that Unions stop this from happening? In my experience the Unions are just as guilty of this as the companies they are bargaining with. You being a union guy and all, should be very familiar with the phrase " It ain't what you know, it's who you know".

You forgot one "That ain't my job to do that" ......

The complaint of a manager who can't manage his time and his area of responsibility.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you’re dumb enough to think that jumping from job to job all your life is the way to go, be my guest. There are plenty of fast food joints that would take you for a while at least. And, I strongly suspect that with your attitude you’d be the yahoo who’d be trying to hire his or her half-wit brother-in-law, and if you hocked your house to start your own business, you’d be precisely the guy whose employees would organize against him.

There are plenty of people who change jobs multiple times in their lives. These are people with ambition.

Who on earth would want to do the same thing day in and day out for 50 years with absolutely no growth?

Just because your clearly want others controlling your life doesnt mean the rest of us do. Just because you need others to protect you doesnt mean we do.

Thats the difference between us. I believe people should be rewarded for their productivity. You think they should be rewarded for just showing up.

 

[driveby]

Do you really believe that Unions stop this from happening? In my experience the Unions are just as guilty of this as the companies they are bargaining with. You being a union guy and all, should be very familiar with the phrase " It ain't what you know, it's who you know".

You forgot one "That ain't my job to do that" ......

The complaint of a manager who can't manage his time and his area of responsibility.

Nope, you must not have been around very many unions. That's the response you get from a union employee if you ask them to do anything remotely outside of their "job description". To which i always replied " do it and file a grievance later if you want or you'll be terminated for insubordination".....

 

[Patriot2009]

No disrespect intended, but, you won’t discredit my whole post because its factual rather than hysterical or full of misconceptions and mistaken opinions.

I worked in a strong union environment ( glass manufacturer, our "international" was AFL-CIO) for 11 years before i joined my current company six years ago. I speak from experience, not hysterical misconceptions.

Long story short, they went out of business, not entirely the unions fault. Their final nail in the coffin was bringing in consultants that spent a bunch of money on the plant, but really had no clue what they were doing. Sounds a little like the Obama administration eh ?

If you knew as much about a real union environment as you claim, you would know that the AFL-CIO isn’t an “international” but an umbrella organization of affiliated Union Internationals and that there would have been an independent International union that maintained a local presence and would have had workers democratically elected to local union positions from the workforce right there in the plant.

And, the likelihood is that the company’s failure was for precisely the reason that I described above, mismanagement and bad business decisions. Their resort to so-called consultants who knew little about the nature of the industry involved is a good indication of that mismanagement.

 

[driveby]

No disrespect intended, but, you won’t discredit my whole post because its factual rather than hysterical or full of misconceptions and mistaken opinions.

I worked in a strong union environment ( glass manufacturer, our "international" was AFL-CIO) for 11 years before i joined my current company six years ago. I speak from experience, not hysterical misconceptions.

Long story short, they went out of business, not entirely the unions fault. Their final nail in the coffin was bringing in consultants that spent a bunch of money on the plant, but really had no clue what they were doing. Sounds a little like the Obama administration eh ?

If you knew as much about a real union environment as you claim, you would know that the AFL-CIO isn’t an “international” but an umbrella organization of affiliated Union Internationals and that there would have been an independent International union that maintained a local presence and would have had workers democratically elected to local union positions from the workforce right there in the plant.

And, the likelihood is that the company’s failure was for precisely the reason that I described above, mismanagement and bad business decisions. Their resort to so-called consultants who knew little about the nature of the industry involved is a good indication of that mismanagement.

I'll rep you on that one, i've been out of it for years, the international was the GMP and were affiliated with AFL-CIO. The union had a LOT to do with the downfall as well. There were a lot of lazy, unproductive workers there and the union wages and benefits were a huge weight on the company, especially the pension. The consultants did seal the deal in the end. The company was already drowning before the consultants got there however.......

 

[michiganFats]

If you knew as much about a real union environment as you claim, you would know that the AFL-CIO isn’t an “international” but an umbrella organization of affiliated Union Internationals and that there would have been an independent International union that maintained a local presence and would have had workers democratically elected to local union positions from the workforce right there in the plant./QUOTE]

Just throwing in my two cents. Before you resort to the "if you knew as much as you claim to know" card, I think you should know that nothing you have posted rings true to my union experience. Fancy book learnin' is fine, but you obviously have never spent day one on the floor. I think you have a rather idealized view of how unions operate at the rank and file level.

 

[Patriot2009]

You forgot one "That ain't my job to do that" ......

The complaint of a manager who can't manage his time and his area of responsibility.

Nope, you must not have been around very many unions. That's the response you get from a union employee if you ask them to do anything remotely outside of their "job description". To which i always replied " do it and file a grievance later if you want or you'll be terminated for insubordination".....

As I said, the complaint of a manager who isn’t able to manage his time and area of responsibility.

Such individuals are then forced to violate an agreement between his employer and its employees.

The problem with your approach is that you make the mistake that it is somehow saving time and money. But, the grievance costs your employer in terms of time and the resources of its labor relations department and, not uncommonly its legal department as well. It would have been cheaper and more efficient if you had planned ahead and used the proper employee who would have had the necessary training and expertise to do the job you needed to have done. A another common result is that the use of an untrained employee , a janitor to do some welding for example, results in poor quality work and a poor product.

Another aspect of this scenario is that disrespect of the workers often results in poor moral and resulting decline in the quaklity of the workforce overall.

It could very well be that your inability to manage effectively and command the respect of your subordinates through supurior performance and an example of excellnce in your work contributed to the failure of your employer!

The fact of the matter is that American workers, particularly unionized workers, are more productive than any other worker in the world, especially when given the chance by good employers and excellent managers.

 

[driveby]

If you knew as much about a real union environment as you claim, you would know that the AFL-CIO isn’t an “international” but an umbrella organization of affiliated Union Internationals and that there would have been an independent International union that maintained a local presence and would have had workers democratically elected to local union positions from the workforce right there in the plant./QUOTE]

Just throwing in my two cents. Before you resort to the "if you knew as much as you claim to know" card, I think you should know that nothing you have posted rings true to my union experience. Fancy book learnin' is fine, but you obviously have never spent day one on the floor. I think you have a rather idealized view of how unions operate at the rank and file level.

He was right on the one little thing. But i agree with you, he's more theory than application and likely hasn't worked it at the ground level.......

 

[Patriot2009]

If you knew as much about a real union environment as you claim, you would know that the AFL-CIO isn’t an “international” but an umbrella organization of affiliated Union Internationals and that there would have been an independent International union that maintained a local presence and would have had workers democratically elected to local union positions from the workforce right there in the plant./QUOTE]

Just throwing in my two cents. Before you resort to the "if you knew as much as you claim to know" card, I think you should know that nothing you have posted rings true to my union experience. Fancy book learnin' is fine, but you obviously have never spent day one on the floor. I think you have a rather idealized view of how unions operate at the rank and file level.

The fact is that after I got out of the service in the early 1970's, I hired out as a carpenter on the Cotton Belt Railroad. Then I bid onto a "Bridge Gang" building and maintaining railroad trestles. I eventually got elected as the Local's Secretary/Treasurer, then President, and eventually the rail industry equivalent of a Business Agent. Then I was appointed by the International to come to its Chicago office to do arbitration work.

So, contrary to your mistaken assumption, I have quite a bit of experience in the workplace . It just happened not to be a plant environment in a single location. My territory stretched over a 1000 miles and had dozens of work locations and hundreds of rank and file workers.

 

[driveby]

The complaint of a manager who can't manage his time and his area of responsibility.

Nope, you must not have been around very many unions. That's the response you get from a union employee if you ask them to do anything remotely outside of their "job description". To which i always replied " do it and file a grievance later if you want or you'll be terminated for insubordination".....

As I said, the complaint of a manager who isn’t able to manage his time and area of responsibility.

Ahh grasshopper, your statement lacks substance. What does a marginal employee have to do with a supervisor's time management skills ? When you have to manage with limited resources and you have to find creative ways to get the most out of your limited resources. I also made it a point to speak with said employee(s) after the shift and gave the old "teamwork" speech and no greivance was ever filed against me.

 

[michiganFats]

Patriot, I'm calling Bullshit. Unions do not operate through arbitration and the courts. They operate through peer pressure. Some call it threats and intimidation. You can talk it up all you want to, but the fact is that if you don't toe the line, the goon squad will be paying you a visit.

 

[driveby]

If you knew as much about a real union environment as you claim, you would know that the AFL-CIO isn’t an “international” but an umbrella organization of affiliated Union Internationals and that there would have been an independent International union that maintained a local presence and would have had workers democratically elected to local union positions from the workforce right there in the plant./QUOTE]

Just throwing in my two cents. Before you resort to the "if you knew as much as you claim to know" card, I think you should know that nothing you have posted rings true to my union experience. Fancy book learnin' is fine, but you obviously have never spent day one on the floor. I think you have a rather idealized view of how unions operate at the rank and file level.

The fact is that after I got out of the service in the early 1970's, I hired out as a carpenter on the Cotton Belt Railroad. Then I bid onto a "Bridge Gang" building and maintaining railroad trestles. I eventually got elected as the Local's Secretary/Treasurer, then President, and eventually the rail industry equivalent of a Business Agent. Then I was appointed by the International to come to its Chicago office to do arbitration work.

So, contrary to your mistaken assumption, I have quite a bit of experience in the workplace . It just happened not to be a plant environment in a single location. My territory stretched over a 1000 miles and had dozens of work locations and hundreds of rank and file workers.

Oh for chrst sake, you're a union officer. No one is ever going to get through to you......

 

[driveby]

Patriot, I'm calling Bullshit. Unions do not operate through arbitration and the courts. They operate through peer pressure. Some call it threats and intimidation. You can talk it up all you want to, but the fact is that if you don't toe the line, the goon squad will be paying you a visit.

He's a union officer, give it up ...

 

[Harry Dresden]

3 paid sick days per year, etc...

THATS IT?.......guess no one ever gets the flu......can you at least accumulate the days you dont use?

 

[driveby]

3 paid sick days per year, etc...

THATS IT?.......guess no one ever gets the flu......can you at least accumulate the days you dont use?

The job is unskilled labor, i don't know any other company in this type of business that gives any paid sick days.......

 

[Harry Dresden]

3 paid sick days per year, etc...

THATS IT?.......guess no one ever gets the flu......can you at least accumulate the days you dont use?

The job is unskilled labor, i don't know any other company in this type of business that gives any paid sick days.......

well maybe they need a union....

 

[michiganFats]

He's a union officer, give it up ...

Union officer my ass. He's a useful idiot at best.

 

[Vel]

[

In control of thier own destiny unless they get crossways with a manager intent on getting rid of them so he can put his halfwit brother-in-law in thier spot! They have absolutely no protection even if they're the best worker the company ever had.

And an employer owes anyone a job why?