- Moderator
- #61
And an employer owes anyone a job why?
Because its someone elses responsibility to employ him. He has no responsibility for any of it.
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And an employer owes anyone a job why?
that about nails it for meOppose.
No secret ballot and binding GOVERNMENT arbitration?
Just say no to more big brother gov.
THATS IT?.......guess no one ever gets the flu......can you at least accumulate the days you dont use?
The job is unskilled labor, i don't know any other company in this type of business that gives any paid sick days.......
well maybe they need a union....![]()
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In control of thier own destiny unless they get crossways with a manager intent on getting rid of them so he can put his halfwit brother-in-law in thier spot! They have absolutely no protection even if they're the best worker the company ever had.
And an employer owes anyone a job why?
Nope, you must not have been around very many unions. That's the response you get from a union employee if you ask them to do anything remotely outside of their "job description". To which i always replied " do it and file a grievance later if you want or you'll be terminated for insubordination".....
As I said, the complaint of a manager who isnt able to manage his time and area of responsibility.
Ahh grasshopper, your statement lacks substance. What does a marginal employee have to do with a supervisor's time management skills ? When you have to manage with limited resources and you have to find creative ways to get the most out of your limited resources. I also made it a point to speak with said employee(s) after the shift and gave the old "teamwork" speech and no greivance was ever filed against me.![]()
Patriot, I'm calling Bullshit. Unions do not operate through arbitration and the courts. They operate through peer pressure. Some call it threats and intimidation. You can talk it up all you want to, but the fact is that if you don't toe the line, the goon squad will be paying you a visit.
The job is unskilled labor, i don't know any other company in this type of business that gives any paid sick days.......
well maybe they need a union....![]()
why ? so they get 10 paid sick days per year and use them whether they are sick or not ?
"It's a sunny, 80 degree day and i feel perfectly fine, but fuck it, i have 10 sick days, i'm gonna use one today, hell i'll use another tomorrow if it's another nice day"....
Maybe we don't need a union ......![]()
Patriot, I'm not arguing that all unions are bad. IMHO collective bargaining is essential to freedom and prosperity. I am saying that Unionism is an industry, there is a lot at stake, and things don't work they way they should, especially in large unions where the underlings can operate in relative obscurity.
Many of your posts revolve around the way things should work, not the way they do work. The fact is, arbitration and legal action only occur when the company is perceived to have done something wrong. Workers have no recourse when it is the union itself that is guilty of wrongdoing. Theoretically they do, but in the real world, you rock the boat, you pay for it.
The goon squad is not dead. You cause problems on the floor, and your car gets worked over before the whistle sounds. Or the more subtle stewards will refuse to back you on a legitimate grievance. Anyone who wants to understand how unions actually work shouldn't read law, they should read "Lord of the Flies". Powergames, perks, and threats of violence are just as alive today as they ever have been, and God help you if you are Piggy.
I could also post at length about the "out of town talent" that is routinely brought into town during strikes. I won't because that's not something that's handled at the floor level, the higher-ups did that all own their own.
Elvis pull you head out. those with sense enough to poor piss out of a boot with directions written on the heal don't stay in assembly for 25 years except in Detroit. Assembly is an entry level position in most companies unless it involves welding or machining in which case you aren't being paid as little as minimum wage unless you are stupid.
As I said, the complaint of a manager who isnt able to manage his time and area of responsibility.
Ahh grasshopper, your statement lacks substance. What does a marginal employee have to do with a supervisor's time management skills ? When you have to manage with limited resources and you have to find creative ways to get the most out of your limited resources. I also made it a point to speak with said employee(s) after the shift and gave the old "teamwork" speech and no greivance was ever filed against me.![]()
Ah, so now he's a marginal employee rather than one who is reminding you that your employer made a contract with him and his coworkers promising that he would not be worked outside his classification.
Union employees, look out for themselves and do as little as possible. I'll chalk your statement up as lack of experience, in a fast paced environment, you always have to be prepared to improvise.
There's two possibilities here. One, you couldn't plan ahead enough to efficiently use the workers in the way that your employer agreed that they would be used. Two, your employer mismanaged its workforce in such a way as to force you to do so by undermanning and imbalancing the various classifications set up in the contract. For example, the employer needed twice as many pipefitters as it need welders. But, hired twice as many welders as it did pipefitters. Either way, it wasn't the workers fault or his union's fault at all. An employee who asked you to live up to your agreement isn't therefore a marginal employee. And, it's dishonest to intentionally violate that agreement!
Spoken like a true " its all about myself" union fool. Workers call out, specs change on the fly, adjustments have to be made quickly. I'm talking about unskilled workers, not pipefitters and welders. Managers have to produce no matter what the circumstances. How do you "plan" that three workers are going to call out today, then five tomorrow, then one the next day, then none the next day ?You don't, you have to improvise when those things happen. Liberals and union clowns live in the theoretical world too much.
And, the fact that no greivance was filed doesn't prove that you were right. It merely shows that your workers were probably more reasonable than you're leading us to
beleive.
It proves i got the job done without incident.
BTW, I find it incredible that this one incident that you are describing was all that there was and that no greivances were ever filed against you.
It happened a few times, i never said it happened only once. With a solid thank you and a motivated explanation of how they really helped the company that day, no greivance was filed. If you don't believe me, so what, you're the type that only believes what your union people tell you. I bet they lie to you more than i would.
And, one other thing. I'm a former union officer. Now I'm a small business owner. I just happen to be one who beleives that if an employer agrees to a contract, he should abide by that contract rather than seek ways in which to violate it or circumvent it. Dishonesty never profited anyone in the long run and what you say you did was dishonest.
Unions aren't dishonest ? rigghhhtttt Neither are politicians....
As I pointed out. Your practice, and I suspect your fellow managers, of violating the contract has a hidden price both in terms of productivity and the cost of handling employee greivances. And, when you lose a greivance in arbitration, your employer pays a second time for all the work time that was lost by the employee who was supposed to have done the work to start with.
Keep the secret ballot.. If you cannot do that then you own the intimidation label.
well maybe they need a union....![]()
why ? so they get 10 paid sick days per year and use them whether they are sick or not ?
"It's a sunny, 80 degree day and i feel perfectly fine, but fuck it, i have 10 sick days, i'm gonna use one today, hell i'll use another tomorrow if it's another nice day"....
Maybe we don't need a union ......![]()
If your company agreed to pay for sick days used by workers who may not be sick then they shouldn’t be surprised when the employees do exactly that!
You’re mad because your company agreed to something that you don’t agree with.
That sounds like a personal problem to me.
I suppose you piss and moan when a worker takes paid vacation days but stays at home without taking a trip too, right?
Maybe not at your company, but, many have agreements that require employees to use vacation days for days when they are sick after they have used up thier sick days, paid or not.
It's people like you that will turn Michigan into a welfare state.
given the union control of that state...i would say you are already there.....unfortunantely the unions and the car companies can no longer foot the bill......
I would think the auto slowdown would affect Califonia, too, No? all the computerized systems in cars these days?
Keep the secret ballot.. If you cannot do that then you own the intimidation label.
What good is a so-called secret ballot if the keeper of the voter rolls withholds them and falsifiys them and the government aids and abets it?
The value of a secret ballot election is preserved only if it is conducted in an open, fair and transparent manner. Otherwise it isn't a real secret ballot election to start with. It's a sham!
That's what one gets in the current system.
Keep the secret ballot.. If you cannot do that then you own the intimidation label.
What good is a so-called secret ballot if the keeper of the voter rolls withholds them and falsifiys them and the government aids and abets it?
The value of a secret ballot election is preserved only if it is conducted in an open, fair and transparent manner. Otherwise it isn't a real secret ballot election to start with. It's a sham!
That's what one gets in the current system.
The right to vote without intimidation is what you get with a secret ballot you DUmb Nazi.
great, then you must support the Photo ID requirement to vote for elections tooKeep the secret ballot.. If you cannot do that then you own the intimidation label.
What good is a so-called secret ballot if the keeper of the voter rolls withholds them and falsifiys them and the government aids and abets it?
The value of a secret ballot election is preserved only if it is conducted in an open, fair and transparent manner. Otherwise it isn't a real secret ballot election to start with. It's a sham!
That's what one gets in the current system.