The Ethics of Capital Punishment

[Tank]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETCLxxA8G_0]Sky Dancers Commercial - YouTube[/ame]

 

[syrenn]

You judge others for their blood lust, Syrenn. You are unable to deal with your own. You're the one who wants to kill EVERY prisoner. My guess is that no matter how many people are executed you will never be at peace.

I'm sorry for whatever it was that made you feel that way.

The difference is, opinion is not murder now is it?


Ill settle for the ones sentenced to death.... to be put to death. Rather simple.

 

[syrenn]

You don't know that informing a child that her mothers murderer has been executed will have therapeutic benefits on a child's recovery.

You just cannot know that.

You are always so certain about what is best for other people. I'm not. I take things on a case by case basis.

Family members vary in their feelings the death penalty. I've shown that your view is not universal.

I know that mine isn't either.

Why don't you tell your own story, Syrenn? Give people some real life context for your harsh view.

And again... you don't know that it wont be therapeutic.

I certainly know what is and is not therapeutic for a traumatized child.

Show me some evidence that exposing young children to execution benefits them therapeutically. I don't think you'll find any.


By a conservative estimate, parental homicide affects more than 3,000 U.S. children annually. The Virginia authors cite earlier studies, which posit that bereaved children have to negotiate three tasks:

Accept the reality of what happened.


Find ways to tolerate the pain.


Loosen the affective bonds with the deceased and make the energy available for other relationships
Child Welfare League of America: Childrens Voice: Survivors, Not Victims: Children of Murdered Parents

Note that executing the murderer isn't mentioned.

You seem to be the only one insisting that children need to be exposed to executions sky. That is rather disturbing.


What is therapeutic to children is knowing that the person how killed their parent can never ever do it to any ever again. Try it some time..... see how well it works. There is no need to go into any other details then the reassurance that the person responsible cant ever do it again.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Criminals fortifier all rights. That includes the right of being considered a human being. Their crimes lower THEM to the level of a rabid dog. I have no issue for putting a rabid dog down.

And i think we need to carry out death plenty sentences one year from the date it is handed out.

I would have them all dead. Period.

The death plenty is only unjust to those how disagree with it. It is only costly becasue of the appeals snail pace process. It would be VERY cost effective if criminals sentences were carried out in a timely manner.... say immediately after the first appeal is lost.

I my opinion... it is morally unjust NOT to kill them outright.

Incorrect.

Convicted criminals have the right to appeal their convictions and not be subject to cruel or unusual punishment, however long the process may take. Once appeals are exhausted, however, and the punishment complies with the 8th Amendment, the punishment may be carried out.

The law is designed not to benefit the convicted but to protect society from the ignorance and hate you exhibit.

I did not say the appeals process is not necessary now did i? I have said and maintain.... one appeal.

And that's it.

If you win your appeal... you get a second trial. If not... get the shot. That is not trigger happy.

And again, you exhibit only your ignorance of the law.

 

[syrenn]

Criminals fortifier all rights. That includes the right of being considered a human being. Their crimes lower THEM to the level of a rabid dog. I have no issue for putting a rabid dog down.

And i think we need to carry out death plenty sentences one year from the date it is handed out.

I would have them all dead. Period.

The death plenty is only unjust to those how disagree with it. It is only costly becasue of the appeals snail pace process. It would be VERY cost effective if criminals sentences were carried out in a timely manner.... say immediately after the first appeal is lost.

I my opinion... it is morally unjust NOT to kill them outright.

Incorrect.

Convicted criminals have the right to appeal their convictions and not be subject to cruel or unusual punishment, however long the process may take. Once appeals are exhausted, however, and the punishment complies with the 8th Amendment, the punishment may be carried out.

The law is designed not to benefit the convicted but to protect society from the ignorance and hate you exhibit.

I did not say the appeals process is not necessary now did i? I have said and maintain.... one appeal.

And that's it.

If you win your appeal... you get a second trial. If not... get the shot. That is not trigger happy.

And again, you exhibit only your ignorance of the law.

I know what the law is and how the appeals process works. I am of the opinion once all appeals are over... its time to be put down. Sky seems to feel they should regardless of the death sentence...they should be allowed to live.

I also know what rights criminals have. Sad to say they have more rights then victims.

My opinion of how i think it should be, is totally different then what is. Just as skys opinion of the law is totally different then what is.

 

[Montrovant]

Criminals fortifier all rights. That includes the right of being considered a human being. Their crimes lower THEM to the level of a rabid dog. I have no issue for putting a rabid dog down.

And i think we need to carry out death plenty sentences one year from the date it is handed out.

I would have them all dead. Period.

The death plenty is only unjust to those how disagree with it. It is only costly becasue of the appeals snail pace process. It would be VERY cost effective if criminals sentences were carried out in a timely manner.... say immediately after the first appeal is lost.

I my opinion... it is morally unjust NOT to kill them outright.

Incorrect.

Convicted criminals have the right to appeal their convictions and not be subject to cruel or unusual punishment, however long the process may take. Once appeals are exhausted, however, and the punishment complies with the 8th Amendment, the punishment may be carried out.

The law is designed not to benefit the convicted but to protect society from the ignorance and hate you exhibit.

I did not say the appeals process is not necessary now did i? I have said and maintain.... one appeal.

And that's it.

If you win your appeal... you get a second trial. If not... get the shot. That is not trigger happy.

And again, you exhibit only your ignorance of the law.

I know what the law is and how the appeals process works. I am of the opinion once all appeals are over... its time to be put down. Sky seems to feel they should regardless of the death sentence...they should be allowed to live.

I also know what rights criminals have. Sad to say they have more rights then victims.

My opinion of how i think it should be, is totally different then what is. Just as skys opinion of the law is totally different then what is.

I've got no problem with people who are pro-death penalty (my only objection to it is the possibility of an innocent being executed, not any kind of moral opposition to execution as punishment), but the bolded part of your post has always annoyed me when I see it. What rights do the convicted criminals have that the victims don't? We're talking rights, mind you. You may feel convicts are treated too easily (which I agree is sometimes true), you may feel the appeals process for death penalty cases takes too long (which I also agree with, although my answer would be to get rid of it entirely rather than reduce the appeals), you may feel the criminals deserve death and worse (and again, I agree, and my only concern is being certain we have the actual criminal), but I don't see how convicts are granted more rights than victims.

I guess you might say this is just a pet peeve of mine.

 

[syrenn]

Incorrect.

Convicted criminals have the right to appeal their convictions and not be subject to cruel or unusual punishment, however long the process may take. Once appeals are exhausted, however, and the punishment complies with the 8th Amendment, the punishment may be carried out.

The law is designed not to benefit the convicted but to protect society from the ignorance and hate you exhibit.


And again, you exhibit only your ignorance of the law.

I know what the law is and how the appeals process works. I am of the opinion once all appeals are over... its time to be put down. Sky seems to feel they should regardless of the death sentence...they should be allowed to live.

I also know what rights criminals have. Sad to say they have more rights then victims.

My opinion of how i think it should be, is totally different then what is. Just as skys opinion of the law is totally different then what is.

I've got no problem with people who are pro-death penalty (my only objection to it is the possibility of an innocent being executed, not any kind of moral opposition to execution as punishment), but the bolded part of your post has always annoyed me when I see it. What rights do the convicted criminals have that the victims don't? We're talking rights, mind you. You may feel convicts are treated too easily (which I agree is sometimes true), you may feel the appeals process for death penalty cases takes too long (which I also agree with, although my answer would be to get rid of it entirely rather than reduce the appeals), you may feel the criminals deserve death and worse (and again, I agree, and my only concern is being certain we have the actual criminal), but I don't see how convicts are granted more rights than victims.

I guess you might say this is just a pet peeve of mine.

Let me give you one good example here for the criminal has more rights then the victim


When the murder gets to live...and the victim dies.


That is one of my pet peevs

 

[Sky Dancer]

And again... you don't know that it wont be therapeutic.

I certainly know what is and is not therapeutic for a traumatized child.

Show me some evidence that exposing young children to execution benefits them therapeutically. I don't think you'll find any.


By a conservative estimate, parental homicide affects more than 3,000 U.S. children annually. The Virginia authors cite earlier studies, which posit that bereaved children have to negotiate three tasks:

Accept the reality of what happened.


Find ways to tolerate the pain.


Loosen the affective bonds with the deceased and make the energy available for other relationships
Child Welfare League of America: Childrens Voice: Survivors, Not Victims: Children of Murdered Parents

Note that executing the murderer isn't mentioned.

You seem to be the only one insisting that children need to be exposed to executions sky. That is rather disturbing.


What is therapeutic to children is knowing that the person how killed their parent can never ever do it to any ever again. Try it some time..... see how well it works. There is no need to go into any other details then the reassurance that the person responsible cant ever do it again.

You are the one that wants to tell a small child that his mother's murderer has been executed. That is WRONG. The child has already been traumatized by violence and YOU seek to do it again.

You've got a real ax to grind with this issue. YOU want everyone in prison executed.

It is NOT therapeutic to discuss execution with a small child.

There are currently 19 states that allow the execution of 16 and 17 year olds.

 

[lizzie]

For those who called me a liar:

Statistics confirm discrimination. Between 1930 and 1990, 4,016 persons were executed in the United States. Of these, 2,129 (or 53 percent) were black. For the crime of murder, 3,343 were executed; 1,693 (or 51 percent) were black.(17) During these years African-Americans were about 12 per cent of the nation's population.
The Case Against the Death Penalty

What percentage of the people in the prison system are black as compared to white?

is it 53% black in the prison population or higher or lower. If it is higher than whites are put to death more than blacks as a percentage of the population, if it is lower then your premise is correct.

I honestly don't know the numbers which is why I presented the question

2.Race & Prison - Data

(2009 - incarceration rates for people of color) "Mass arrests and incarceration of people of color – largely due to drug law violations – have hobbled families and communities by stigmatizing and removing substantial numbers of men and women. In the late 1990s, nearly one in three African-American men aged 20-29 were under criminal justice supervision, while more than two out of five had been incarcerated – substantially more than had been incarcerated a decade earlier and orders of magnitudes higher than that for the general population.

Today, 1 in 15 African-American children and 1 in 42 Latino children have a parent in prison, compared to 1 in 111 white children. In some areas, a large majority of African-American men – 55 percent in Chicago, for example – are labeled felons for life, and, as a result, may be prevented from voting and accessing public housing, student loans and other public assistance."

Source: "Drug Courts Are Not the Answer: Toward a Health-Centered Approach to Drug Use" Drug Policy Alliance (New York, NY: March 2011), p. 9.
Drug Courts Are Not the Answer: Toward a Health-Centered Approach to Drug Use | Drug Policy Alliance

If those are the statistics, then what it tells us is that minorities are commiting more crimes relative to whites. Fortunately, there is no quota system in the prisons as of yet. We can discuss all the reasons for higher crime rates among minority groups, but what it boils down to is the numbers. If you commit a crime which warrants imprisonment, then you do the time. There's a simple way to stay out of prison- don't do anything which will take you there.

 

[Sky Dancer]

What percentage of the people in the prison system are black as compared to white?

is it 53% black in the prison population or higher or lower. If it is higher than whites are put to death more than blacks as a percentage of the population, if it is lower then your premise is correct.

I honestly don't know the numbers which is why I presented the question

2.Race & Prison - Data

(2009 - incarceration rates for people of color) "Mass arrests and incarceration of people of color – largely due to drug law violations – have hobbled families and communities by stigmatizing and removing substantial numbers of men and women. In the late 1990s, nearly one in three African-American men aged 20-29 were under criminal justice supervision, while more than two out of five had been incarcerated – substantially more than had been incarcerated a decade earlier and orders of magnitudes higher than that for the general population.

Today, 1 in 15 African-American children and 1 in 42 Latino children have a parent in prison, compared to 1 in 111 white children. In some areas, a large majority of African-American men – 55 percent in Chicago, for example – are labeled felons for life, and, as a result, may be prevented from voting and accessing public housing, student loans and other public assistance."

Source: "Drug Courts Are Not the Answer: Toward a Health-Centered Approach to Drug Use" Drug Policy Alliance (New York, NY: March 2011), p. 9.
Drug Courts Are Not the Answer: Toward a Health-Centered Approach to Drug Use | Drug Policy Alliance

If those are the statistics, then what it tells us is that minorities are commiting more crimes relative to whites. Fortunately, there is no quota system in the prisons as of yet. We can discuss all the reasons for higher crime rates among minority groups, but what it boils down to is the numbers. If you commit a crime which warrants imprisonment, then you do the time. There's a simple way to stay out of prison- don't do anything which will take you there.

Do you think black people are INHERENTLY more violent than whites?

 

[lizzie]

2.Race & Prison - Data

(2009 - incarceration rates for people of color) "Mass arrests and incarceration of people of color – largely due to drug law violations – have hobbled families and communities by stigmatizing and removing substantial numbers of men and women. In the late 1990s, nearly one in three African-American men aged 20-29 were under criminal justice supervision, while more than two out of five had been incarcerated – substantially more than had been incarcerated a decade earlier and orders of magnitudes higher than that for the general population.

Today, 1 in 15 African-American children and 1 in 42 Latino children have a parent in prison, compared to 1 in 111 white children. In some areas, a large majority of African-American men – 55 percent in Chicago, for example – are labeled felons for life, and, as a result, may be prevented from voting and accessing public housing, student loans and other public assistance."

Source: "Drug Courts Are Not the Answer: Toward a Health-Centered Approach to Drug Use" Drug Policy Alliance (New York, NY: March 2011), p. 9.
Drug Courts Are Not the Answer: Toward a Health-Centered Approach to Drug Use | Drug Policy Alliance

If those are the statistics, then what it tells us is that minorities are commiting more crimes relative to whites. Fortunately, there is no quota system in the prisons as of yet. We can discuss all the reasons for higher crime rates among minority groups, but what it boils down to is the numbers. If you commit a crime which warrants imprisonment, then you do the time. There's a simple way to stay out of prison- don't do anything which will take you there.

Do you think black people are INHERENTLY more violent than whites?

No, why would you think that?

 

[Sky Dancer]

If those are the statistics, then what it tells us is that minorities are commiting more crimes relative to whites. Fortunately, there is no quota system in the prisons as of yet. We can discuss all the reasons for higher crime rates among minority groups, but what it boils down to is the numbers. If you commit a crime which warrants imprisonment, then you do the time. There's a simple way to stay out of prison- don't do anything which will take you there.

Do you think black people are INHERENTLY more violent than whites?

No, why would you think that?

You think they committ crimes at a higher rate than whites. I don't. I think they get busted more often than whites. I think the justice system is racially biased in favor of whites.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Sister Helen Prejean is one of my heroes.

http://www.deathofinnocents.net/

 

[Montrovant]

I know what the law is and how the appeals process works. I am of the opinion once all appeals are over... its time to be put down. Sky seems to feel they should regardless of the death sentence...they should be allowed to live.

I also know what rights criminals have. Sad to say they have more rights then victims.

My opinion of how i think it should be, is totally different then what is. Just as skys opinion of the law is totally different then what is.

I've got no problem with people who are pro-death penalty (my only objection to it is the possibility of an innocent being executed, not any kind of moral opposition to execution as punishment), but the bolded part of your post has always annoyed me when I see it. What rights do the convicted criminals have that the victims don't? We're talking rights, mind you. You may feel convicts are treated too easily (which I agree is sometimes true), you may feel the appeals process for death penalty cases takes too long (which I also agree with, although my answer would be to get rid of it entirely rather than reduce the appeals), you may feel the criminals deserve death and worse (and again, I agree, and my only concern is being certain we have the actual criminal), but I don't see how convicts are granted more rights than victims.

I guess you might say this is just a pet peeve of mine.

Let me give you one good example here for the criminal has more rights then the victim


When the murder gets to live...and the victim dies.


That is one of my pet peevs

LOL, I think it's just a terminology issue....I agree completely with the sentiment, I guess I just don't like calling it a rights issue.

 

[lizzie]

Do you think black people are INHERENTLY more violent than whites?

No, why would you think that?

You think they committ crimes at a higher rate than whites. I don't. I think they get busted more often than whites. I think the justice system is racially biased in favor of whites.

Well Sky, you can think whatever you want. It doesn't mean that it's a belief based on sound judgement. Whatever....

 

[Sky Dancer]

A veteran speaks out against the death penalty on Veteran's Day:

A soldier stands for more than just him or herself. A soldier stands for the nation and its citizens. A soldier gives of his or her life to others, and some do that to the fullest extent. A soldier’s life is about others.

The soldier takes an oath “…to support and defend the Constitution of the United States…” I once heard a Franciscan Priest say, “This life is not about you. You are about life.” A soldier lives that out.

We Americans are better people than what we demonstrate by our use of capital punishment. We proudly state that our nation was founded on the concepts of life and liberty. Congress has passed and the American people have approved amendments to our Constitution to protect the lives of our citizens. The death penalty stands in direct opposition to these concepts.

NCADP - The National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty

 

[Sky Dancer]

A sentence of life without parole generally means exactly what it says – convicts locked away in prison until they die. Unlike the death penalty, a sentence of life in prison without parole allows mistakes to be corrected or new evidence to come to light.

 

[Tank]

Do you think black people are INHERENTLY more violent than whites?

Yes, blacks on average have higher testosterone and lower IQ levels.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Do you think black people are INHERENTLY more violent than whites?

Yes, blacks on average have higher testosterone and lower IQ levels.

Thank you for clarifying your race theory.

 

[Tank]

Do you think black people are INHERENTLY more violent than whites?

Yes, blacks on average have higher testosterone and lower IQ levels.

Thank you for clarifying your race theory.

It's not a theory, it's the facts