The First Nakba Map...in Hebrew

[docmauser1]

So the British imperialists picked their own "little, loyal, Jewish Ulster" over twice as many Palestinians who preferred self-determination?

Indeed, arabs preferred redistribution.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Ahhh, the Anti-Israel, Anti-Jew butthurt hate is very strong on this thread...

Here, butthurt Anti-Semite nutz:

Really, all one can do is laugh at you haters. Really.

 

[georgephillip]

Ahhh, the Anti-Israel, Anti-Jew butthurt hate is very strong on this thread...

Here, butthurt Anti-Semite nutz:

Really, all one can do is laugh at you haters. Really.

Can you do this math?
1948 Mandate Palestine.
650,000 Jews.
1.3 million non-Jews.
Jewish state?
Really

 

[georgephillip]

So the British imperialists picked their own "little, loyal, Jewish Ulster" over twice as many Palestinians who preferred self-determination?

Indeed, arabs preferred redistribution.

Redistribution of Jaffa, Lydda, or Ramie?

 

[Kondor3]

Maybe the Brits turned-over all those Police Forts and bases and all those small arms as a way of making-up for prior confiscations and as a way of leveling the playing field a bit on the way out the door? Just a hunch. I don't know if there's underlying data to be had in support of such reasonable speculation, though.

"British forces began retreating from Palestine in the months prior to Israel's declaration of independence. As the British retreated, they withdrew from successive areas of Palestine without transferring administrative authority to anyone, creating an effective power vacuum, and causing widespread chaos in many of the areas they abandoned..."

I stand corrected. The Brits just picked-up and left; without regard for WHO took-over a given police fort or arms-cache; although I find it difficult to believe that the Arabs came to possess such a large percentage of police forts and bases without either (1) the strength to take and keep them or (2) being handed the keys by the Brits; but, I concede that the Brits simply skeddadled, without any particular prejudice.

"...On 22 May 1948, the Royal Egyptian Air Force attacked RAF Ramat David, mistaking the airfield for one occupied by the Israeli Air Force. Egyptian warplanes mounted a total of three attacks on the airbase, destroying three aircraft and a hangar, damaging some other aircraft, and killing four airmen.

"By the second attack, the RAF had mounted a standing patrol over the airfield, and five Egyptian Spitfires were shot down – four in aerial combat and one by ground fire.

"On the following day, the RAF withdrew all elements still stationed at RAF Ramat David to Cyprus and the Suez Canal zone, and the base was handed over to the Israelis."...

You are showing us one example of turning-over a base to the Israelis; not a trend or pattern spanning the entire region being abandoned by the Brits; and this particular base was handed over to the Israelis after that RAF base had been attacked by the Arabs. Hell, if I were the Brit commander on the scene, or a Brit official tasked with oversight of the Brit evacuation, I, too, might have been pissed-off enough to give the base to the Jews, in revenge for the Arab attack on the airfield before the evacuation was complete.

That, by itself, is not indicative of the Brits favoring the Jews on the way out the door.

I'm sure there are other examples, as well, of the Brits giving something to the Jews as they exited Palestine, but there are also probably many examples of the Brits giving something to the Arabs, as well - at least, prior to the Arab attacks on the RAF fields.

"...Would you say the British picked a Jewish dog in this fight?"

It's always possible, but you are citing people like Storr - dating back to the 19-teens and 1920s - while the Empire was still on its feet - and whose opinions were pretty much negated and set aside by the exhaustion that set-in during WWII, and as the Empire began divesting itself, in the latter-half of the 1940s and beyond, as it became clear that Britain could no longer sustain the trappings of Empire.

Old habits (including an Imperial mindset) die hard, and I'm sure that the actions and motives of the British of the later 1940s were still tainted by Sugar Plum Visions of the Empire of old, but, let's face it, by 1948, the Brits had already begun down the path of dissolving their Empire - including the letting-go of its plum - India - and a post-Imperial mindset had already begun to pervade their Foreign Office and Military - a mindset in which they stopped worrying so much about future strategic and tactical advantage and concentrated more on pulling-in their horns and bringing their people home to stay.

It's possible that the Brits picked a Jewish Dog in That Fight, but, by then, their supposed motivation for doing so (divide and conquer the Arab world) was dissolving, as they divested themselves of Empire, and packed up, and came home.

Other than some angst directed at the Palestinian Arabs for their mid-1930s revolt, and some gratitude to the Palestinian Jews for pretty-much remaining On-Side with the Empire during WWII, I'm not sure that the Brits had much of an incentive to play Divide and Conquer by the time they skeddaddled in mid-1948.

Or so my first reactive thoughts on the subject lead me to believe.

 

[docmauser1]

Ahhh, the Anti-Israel, Anti-Jew butthurt hate is very strong on this thread...Here, butthurt Anti-Semite nutz:

Really, all one can do is laugh at you haters. Really.

Can you do this math? 1948 Mandate Palestine. 650,000 Jews. 1.3 million non-Jews. Jewish state? Really

Of course!

 

[docmauser1]

So the British imperialists picked their own "little, loyal, Jewish Ulster" over twice as many Palestinians who preferred self-determination?

Indeed, arabs preferred redistribution.

Redistribution of Jaffa, Lydda, or Ramie?

Of course! Wouldn't arabs prefer self-determination otherwise?

 

[georgephillip]

Indeed, arabs preferred redistribution.

Redistribution of Jaffa, Lydda, or Ramie?

Of course! Wouldn't arabs prefer self-determination otherwise?

"The events in Lydda and Ramle accounted for one-tenth of the overall Arab exodus from Palestine, known in the Arab world as al-Nakba ('the catastrophe').

"Many Jews who came to Israel between 1948 and 1951 settled in the refugees' empty homes, both because of a housing shortage and as a matter of policy to prevent former residents from reclaiming them.

"One of the key issues of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is whether the refugees and their descendants ought to have either compensation for their loses or the right of return, a concession many Israelis object to as a threat to the nation's Jewish identity.[8]"

1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[docmauser1]

Redistribution of Jaffa, Lydda, or Ramie?

Of course! Wouldn't arabs prefer self-determination otherwise?

"The events in Lydda and Ramle accounted for one-tenth of the overall Arab exodus from Palestine, known in the Arab world as al-Nakba ('the catastrophe').
"Many Jews who came to Israel between 1948 and 1951 settled in the refugees' empty homes, both because of a housing shortage and as a matter of policy to prevent former residents from reclaiming them.
"One of the key issues of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is whether the refugees and their descendants ought to have either compensation for their loses or the right of return, a concession many Israelis object to as a threat to the nation's Jewish identity.[8]" Benny Morris.

... Q: "You are the man who revealed to the Israelis that they have responsibility for the refugee problem. Are you asking them to ignore what you revealed to them?"
BM: "I revealed to the Israelis the truth of what happened in 1948, the historic facts. But the Arabs are the ones who started the fighting, they started the shootings. So why should I take responsibility? The Arabs started the war, they are responsible." ...
Q: "And when you hear Palestinian leaders, like Abu Mazen and others, who say that they are willing to accept Israel, and living alongside it, do you not believe them?"
BM: "Not really. I do believe them when they cheer for bin Laden..."
Miron Rappaport, Yediot Ahronot, November 23, 2001.

 

[georgephillip]

Of course! Wouldn't arabs prefer self-determination otherwise?

"The events in Lydda and Ramle accounted for one-tenth of the overall Arab exodus from Palestine, known in the Arab world as al-Nakba ('the catastrophe').
"Many Jews who came to Israel between 1948 and 1951 settled in the refugees' empty homes, both because of a housing shortage and as a matter of policy to prevent former residents from reclaiming them.
"One of the key issues of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is whether the refugees and their descendants ought to have either compensation for their loses or the right of return, a concession many Israelis object to as a threat to the nation's Jewish identity.[8]" Benny Morris.

... Q: "You are the man who revealed to the Israelis that they have responsibility for the refugee problem. Are you asking them to ignore what you revealed to them?"
BM: "I revealed to the Israelis the truth of what happened in 1948, the historic facts. But the Arabs are the ones who started the fighting, they started the shootings. So why should I take responsibility? The Arabs started the war, they are responsible." ...
Q: "And when you hear Palestinian leaders, like Abu Mazen and others, who say that they are willing to accept Israel, and living alongside it, do you not believe them?"
BM: "Not really. I do believe them when they cheer for bin Laden..."
Miron Rappaport, Yediot Ahronot, November 23, 2001.

"On 10 July, Glubb Pasha ordered the defending Arab Legion troops to 'make arrangements...for a phony war'.[3]

"The next day, Ramle surrendered immediately, but the conquest of Lydda took longer and led to an unknown number of deaths; Israeli historian Benny Morris suggests up to 450 Arabs and 9–10 Israeli soldiers died.[4]

"Once the Israelis were in control of the towns, an expulsion order signed by Yitzhak Rabin was issued to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) stating, '1. The inhabitants of Lydda must be expelled quickly without attention to age.…',[5]

"Ramle's residents were bussed out, while the people of Lydda were forced to walk miles during a summer heat wave to the Arab front lines, where the Arab Legion, Transjordan's British-led army, tried to provide shelter and supplies.[6]

"Quite a few of the refugees died from exhaustion and dehydration. Estimates ranged from a handful to a figure of 350 based on hearsay, which is why the events are also referred as the Lydda death march.[7]"

1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[docmauser1]

"The events in Lydda and Ramle accounted for one-tenth of the overall Arab exodus from Palestine, known in the Arab world as al-Nakba ('the catastrophe').
"Many Jews who came to Israel between 1948 and 1951 settled in the refugees' empty homes, both because of a housing shortage and as a matter of policy to prevent former residents from reclaiming them.
"One of the key issues of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is whether the refugees and their descendants ought to have either compensation for their loses or the right of return, a concession many Israelis object to as a threat to the nation's Jewish identity.[8]" Benny Morris.

... Q: "You are the man who revealed to the Israelis that they have responsibility for the refugee problem. Are you asking them to ignore what you revealed to them?"
BM: "I revealed to the Israelis the truth of what happened in 1948, the historic facts. But the Arabs are the ones who started the fighting, they started the shootings. So why should I take responsibility? The Arabs started the war, they are responsible." ...
Q: "And when you hear Palestinian leaders, like Abu Mazen and others, who say that they are willing to accept Israel, and living alongside it, do you not believe them?"
BM: "Not really. I do believe them when they cheer for bin Laden..."
Miron Rappaport, Yediot Ahronot, November 23, 2001.

"On 10 July, Glubb Pasha ordered the defending Arab Legion troops to 'make arrangements...for a phony war'.[3] "The next day, Ramle surrendered immediately, but the conquest of Lydda took longer and led to an unknown number of deaths; Israeli historian Benny Morris suggests up to 450 Arabs and 9–10 Israeli soldiers died.[4] "Once the Israelis were in control of the towns, an expulsion order signed by Yitzhak Rabin was issued to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) stating, '1. The inhabitants of Lydda must be expelled quickly without attention to age.…',[5] "Ramle's residents were bussed out, while the people of Lydda were forced to walk miles during a summer heat wave to the Arab front lines, where the Arab Legion, Transjordan's British-led army, tried to provide shelter and supplies.[6] "Quite a few of the refugees died from exhaustion and dehydration. Estimates ranged from a handful to a figure of 350 based on hearsay, which is why the events are also referred as the Lydda death march.[7]"

"I revealed to the Israelis the truth of what happened in 1948, the historic facts. But the Arabs are the ones who started the fighting, they started the shootings. So why should I take responsibility? The Arabs started the war, they are responsible." ...
Benny Morris.

 

[toastman]

Ahhh, the Anti-Israel, Anti-Jew butthurt hate is very strong on this thread...

Here, butthurt Anti-Semite nutz:

Really, all one can do is laugh at you haters. Really.

Can you do this math?
1948 Mandate Palestine.
650,000 Jews.
1.3 million non-Jews.
Jewish state?
Really

1.3 million non Jews ? Was that the total amount living in all of the land from the river to the sea ?

 

[georgephillip]

Ahhh, the Anti-Israel, Anti-Jew butthurt hate is very strong on this thread...

Here, butthurt Anti-Semite nutz:

Really, all one can do is laugh at you haters. Really.

Can you do this math?
1948 Mandate Palestine.
650,000 Jews.
1.3 million non-Jews.
Jewish state?
Really

1.3 million non Jews ? Was that the total amount living in all of the land from the river to the sea ?

That's my understanding, Toast.
650,000 Jews and 1.3 million Arabs living between the River and the sea in 1948.