The Imaginary Greatness of FDR

[Jarhead]

I worried for the longest time about starting a thread like this because it went against absolutely everything I was taught.

Thankfully, I have the facts and the confidence to state: "FDR was a miserable failure and the New Deal gave us an economy worse than the 7 Biblical Lean Years"

Well, you have the confidence. The facts, however, point to the most rapid economic expansion in US history. There's a word for that kind of confidence, Frank.

Fiscal Austerity worked in 1921, and then again, albeit to a far far far lesser degree when Newt controlled Congress.

"Fiscal austerity" = the end of a war.

When Palin is elected and starts shutting down and selling off whole government departments (Farmers Home, Tennessee Valley, Rural Electrification, Fannie, Freddie, HUD) we'll see how it works once again.

I didn't know newly elected dog catchers had such power.

In my town, dog catcher is an appointed position.

 

[8537]

In my town, dog catcher is an appointed position.

can't a man crack a joke these days?

<my town has no dog catcher. They've been promoted to "animal control officer" with the requisite increase in salary and benefits>

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I need to know something.

Do you subscribe to the notion that FDR's New Deal saved America and Capitalism from the wretched excess of Hoover's laissez faire economic policies?

No.

If you review this thread, you won't find me blaming Hoover for anything.

No? Why did FDR walk into 25% unemployment?

 

[Oddball]

His very effective Boss, President Harding was a laissez faire Capitalist.

Adequate railroad transportation service both for the present and future can be furnished more certainly....under proper regulation and control.

--Herbert Hoover's Republican Platform of 1928.

Railroads had defacto monopolies on the railed rights-of-way, therefore the very notion that they were a laissez-faire operation are dubious, if not laughable.

 

[8537]

No? Why did FDR walk into 25% unemployment?

A massive credit bubble that led to a collapse in demand and the destruction of the financial system, paralyzing investment because the usual savings --> investment channels were cut off.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

A waste of time, effort and money guaranteed to keep unemployment around 20% for a decade.

Well that's funny, Frank. Because just a couple posts ago you stated that it ended the Depression.

WWII ended the Great Depression.

How did the war end the depression?

 

[Gadawg73]

Well that's funny, Frank. Because just a couple posts ago you stated that it ended the Depression.

WWII ended the Great Depression.

How did the war end the depression?

Gave 20 million adults low paying government jobs, manufacturing capacity was astronomical, war effort defense jobs were filled and low or no interest debt was the norm

 

[8537]

WWII ended the Great Depression.

How did the war end the depression?

Gave 20 million adults low paying government jobs, manufacturing capacity was astronomical, war effort defense jobs were filled and low or no interest debt was the norm

That sounds positively...Keynesian.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

How is a 2%/per annum drop over 5 years great?

From 25% to 15% is actually an 8% drop per year; and a 40% drop over five years.

 

[Oddball]

WWII ended the Great Depression.

How did the war end the depression?

Gave 20 million adults low paying government jobs, manufacturing capacity was astronomical, war effort defense jobs were filled and low or no interest debt was the norm

...after which a rather steep recession ensued.

Except this time, federal spending was slashed like no time in the previous fifteen years and America turned around, after a relatively short time of retooling and economic reorganization in the marketplace.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Well that's funny, Frank. Because just a couple posts ago you stated that it ended the Depression.

WWII ended the Great Depression.

How did the war end the depression?

Inspector Clouseau: How can a blind man be a lookout?
Chief Inspector Dreyfus: How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No? Why did FDR walk into 25% unemployment?

A massive credit bubble that led to a collapse in demand and the destruction of the financial system, paralyzing investment because the usual savings --> investment channels were cut off.

So Hoover was just like Chauncey Gardner and he was "Being There"?

 

[Oddball]

I like to watch!

 

[Ame®icano]

You can't waste good crisis, right?

FDR's "new deal" was nothing but unconstitutional power grab designed to keep masses under control using "social engineering" that kept Democrats/Progressives in the WH and Congress in power for most of 33-69 period. Power shift achieved with new deal is equal to power shift achieved in Russia with "October revolution", just not that bloody. Does anyone wonder why FDR's and Uncle Joe's policies were so similar?

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

WWII ended the Great Depression.

How did the war end the depression?

Inspector Clouseau: How can a blind man be a lookout?
Chief Inspector Dreyfus: How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!

I'll take that to mean you don't know how the war ended the depression.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

How did the war end the depression?

Gave 20 million adults low paying government jobs, manufacturing capacity was astronomical, war effort defense jobs were filled and low or no interest debt was the norm

...after which a rather steep recession ensued.

What caused a steep recession?

Except this time, federal spending was slashed

How much was it slashed?

 

[Oddball]

Government canceled war contracts, and its spending fell from $84 billion in 1945 to under $30 billion in 1946. By 1947, the government was paying back its massive wartime debts by running a budget surplus of close to 6 percent of GDP. The military released around 10 million Americans back into civilian life. Most economic controls were lifted, and all were gone less than a year after V-J Day. In short, the economy underwent what the historian Jack Stokes Ballard refers to as the "shock of peace." From the economy's perspective, it was the "shock of de-stimulus."

Stimulus by Spending Cuts: Lessons from 1946 | Jason E. Taylor and Richard K. Vedder | Cato Institute: Policy Report

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You can't waste good crisis, right?

FDR's "new deal" was nothing but unconstitutional power grab designed to keep masses under control using "social engineering" that kept Democrats/Progressives in the WH and Congress in power for most of 33-69 period. Power shift achieved with new deal is equal to power shift achieved in Russia with "October revolution", just not that bloody. Does anyone wonder why FDR's and Uncle Joe's policies were so similar?

Had he survived a 4th term, FDR was going to appoint Communist spy Alger his as Sec State and Communist Spy Dexter White as Sec Tres.

Was FDR Stalin's clone? The only real difference was the purges.

Um, wait, he did intern the Japs and tried to see if Syphilis would be a slate cleaner for blacks.

 

[SuMar]

FDR was by far the greatest modern president

He took a country from the midst of a Depression and turned us into an economic and military SuperPower

One can only imagine the horrible state we would be in if he listened to the Republicans

Did you check the numbers?

FDR US Unemployment 1932: 24.1%, 1933: 24.9, 1934: 21.7%, 1935: 20.1%, 1936: 16.9%, 1937: 14.3%, 1938: 19.0%, 1939: 17.2%. 8 year Average = 19.8%

Can you point to the year that 'he took a country from the midst of a Depression and turned us into an economic...SuperPower"

Frank it's useless. RW will just cover his ears and scream, "I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

 

[CrusaderFrank]

OK, here we are back from the Summer of Recovery and Obama and the Progressives are saying we need even more FDR New Deal Stimulus because obviously the first Stimulus did none of what it advertised to do. But instead of getting a refund for a failed product, we're forced to buy more of the crap the Progressives are selling.

The Stimulus was an Epic Fail because it tried to mimic the New Deal which was another Epic Fail, the biggest in human history.

Let's learn from the past: the New Deal was a Fail and Government "Stimulus" is always a net loser.

We've been through the data and so far the best anyone comes up with is that the New Deal gave us a 15% unemployment rate after 5 year.

Let's just admit what we all now know, the New Deal was an Epic Fail.