The Logistics of Deporting 11,000,000 people...help please.

[Spare_change]

I often hear about the conservative plans to deport the illegal aliens who are here.

I was hoping to get the logistics solved. If you believe the figure of 11,000,0000 illegals being here, how would you go about such a feat? What if the illegal alien had a child while he or she was here; would you separate the family since the baby is a citizen?

Sounds pretty impractical to me.

It is pretty impractical. Illegal immigrants are vastly numerous, they move, we don't know who they are, and they can return when we deport them. I have a much more realistic solution: target the dealers of illegal labors, the employers. Employers are less numerous, generally stay put, they advertise, and they're already here.

That's called "... cutting off the limbs to kill the tree."

Nope. Make E*verify mandatory. If you have a new employee, you're required to E*verify their abvility to work legally before they start working. It can be done online in seconds. It can be done over the phone in minutes. The system is already in place. It already exists. All you have to do is make it mandatory and put some teeth behind it.

If an employer uses E*verify and the results show the worker is authorized to work in this country....then no matter what happens, the employer is legally covered. If they don't check or employ someone who E*verify shows can't work, then they do a minimum of 1 year in prison.

A few dozen high profile employers going to jail over this issue, and employers will get the message. Labor for illegal workers will dry up. And with no work, folks will self deport. Resolving much of the 11 million folks who are here.

The solution is reasonable (it takes only seconds to verify), plausible (the system already exists) and fair (if you verify, you're covered as an employer).

... and, when you do this, and it works perfectly, you will have 11 million people who can't feed themselves. Are we going to let them starve (because, under your program, that's their choices - either stay and starve or go home and starve). You know as well as I do that we will create a welfare structure that supports and cares for them.

I absolutely agree that E*verify will help to control the illegal employment issue, but it is nonsensical to think that employment is the ONLY reason they come. What do they get when they get here? Freedom, free education, free welfare, and free healthcare. Still beats the hell out of what they have back home.

 

[g5000]

At a hundred illegals per bus, we could do it in a mere 110,000 bus loads.

Or we could jam them in at 200 per bus and be rid of them in only 55,00 bus loads.

The question remains once we get them out of here is who is going to do the work they once did?

Americans? Fat chance.

A bus seats only 50 passengers.

 

[bendog]

You people honestly believe that Americans are going to pick lettuce, clean hotel rooms, was cars, and mow lawns?

Get real.

Of course. For the right amount of money just about anyone will do it. Most people don't hate money. Perhaps you're an oddball.

I dunno man. A lot of those guys permanently laid off were 50 or above, and it's pretty hard to pick veggies or mow lawns 8 plus hours a day when your back is not so good.

 

[bendog]

I often hear about the conservative plans to deport the illegal aliens who are here.

I was hoping to get the logistics solved. If you believe the figure of 11,000,0000 illegals being here, how would you go about such a feat? What if the illegal alien had a child while he or she was here; would you separate the family since the baby is a citizen?

Sounds pretty impractical to me.

It is pretty impractical. Illegal immigrants are vastly numerous, they move, we don't know who they are, and they can return when we deport them. I have a much more realistic solution: target the dealers of illegal labors, the employers. Employers are less numerous, generally stay put, they advertise, and they're already here.

That's called "... cutting off the limbs to kill the tree."

Nope. Make E*verify mandatory. If you have a new employee, you're required to E*verify their abvility to work legally before they start working. It can be done online in seconds. It can be done over the phone in minutes. The system is already in place. It already exists. All you have to do is make it mandatory and put some teeth behind it.

If an employer uses E*verify and the results show the worker is authorized to work in this country....then no matter what happens, the employer is legally covered. If they don't check or employ someone who E*verify shows can't work, then they do a minimum of 1 year in prison.

A few dozen high profile employers going to jail over this issue, and employers will get the message. Labor for illegal workers will dry up. And with no work, folks will self deport. Resolving much of the 11 million folks who are here.

The solution is reasonable (it takes only seconds to verify), plausible (the system already exists) and fair (if you verify, you're covered as an employer).

... and, when you do this, and it works perfectly, you will have 11 million people who can't feed themselves. Are we going to let them starve (because, under your program, that's their choices - either stay and starve or go home and starve). You know as well as I do that we will create a welfare structure that supports and cares for them.

I absolutely agree that E*verify will help to control the illegal employment issue, but it is nonsensical to think that employment is the ONLY reason they come. What do they get when they get here? Freedom, free education, free welfare, and free healthcare. Still beats the hell out of what they have back home.

Why are you sure we'd create a welfare system? Adult illegal aliens get basic free stabilization medical treatment, but not much else is legally mandated. Kids get educations. But, if a guy can't pass everify, we could deport him and his dependents.

 

[g5000]

1. Americans, even the foaming at the mouth immigrant haters on this forum, will not do a lot of the work illegal labor does. Those who think they would are full of shit. Migrant work is called that for a reason. Very few Americans are going to leave their suburban tract house, climb into their SUV, and travel from farm to farm over hundreds of miles to pick lettuce on one farm for a couple weeks, and then pick blueberries on another farm far away for a couple weeks, and then pick apples on another farm even farther away for a couple weeks. This blazing fact has been proven every time there is a crackdown on illegals on farms. The crops rot in the ground, and on the vine and branch, even when the farmers raise the wage to 20 bucks an hour.

2. E-Verify is great, until it isn't. This idea of punishing employers for hiring illegals exposes the ignorance of the proponents of that idea. If a farmer needs 50 laborers to bring in the crops, but our fucked up immigration quota system only provides him 30 laborers, he has no choice but to hire 20 illegals. Instead of treating the symptom, fix the goddam disease! Straighten out our quota system. Oh, but that would require...you know...the Republicans to allow an immigration bill to come up for a vote in the House. Dumbasses.

 

[g5000]

I posted this question a while back in the Immigration forum and got a lot really nonsensical answers.

ICE reveals cost for deporting each illegal immigrant - Immigration Chronicles

And, if we figured out how, there's still the cost to consider.


Immigrant advocates today are strategically calling the $12,500 cost a “deportation tax.”

Department of Homeland Security estimates that there are roughly 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. If you do the math, that would mean it would cost $137 billion to deport all illegal immigrants. That’s pretty close to the estimate we reported last month.

Nonetheless, President Obama continues to go against the Republicans and deports them by the millions.

In one breath, you say it will cost tens and tens and tens and tens of billions to deport millions, and then you say Obama has deported millions.

You really aren't thinking when you write, are you.

 

[Skylar]

I often hear about the conservative plans to deport the illegal aliens who are here.

I was hoping to get the logistics solved. If you believe the figure of 11,000,0000 illegals being here, how would you go about such a feat? What if the illegal alien had a child while he or she was here; would you separate the family since the baby is a citizen?

Sounds pretty impractical to me.

It is pretty impractical. Illegal immigrants are vastly numerous, they move, we don't know who they are, and they can return when we deport them. I have a much more realistic solution: target the dealers of illegal labors, the employers. Employers are less numerous, generally stay put, they advertise, and they're already here.

That's called "... cutting off the limbs to kill the tree."

Nope. Make E*verify mandatory. If you have a new employee, you're required to E*verify their abvility to work legally before they start working. It can be done online in seconds. It can be done over the phone in minutes. The system is already in place. It already exists. All you have to do is make it mandatory and put some teeth behind it.

If an employer uses E*verify and the results show the worker is authorized to work in this country....then no matter what happens, the employer is legally covered. If they don't check or employ someone who E*verify shows can't work, then they do a minimum of 1 year in prison.

A few dozen high profile employers going to jail over this issue, and employers will get the message. Labor for illegal workers will dry up. And with no work, folks will self deport. Resolving much of the 11 million folks who are here.

The solution is reasonable (it takes only seconds to verify), plausible (the system already exists) and fair (if you verify, you're covered as an employer).

... and, when you do this, and it works perfectly, you will have 11 million people who can't feed themselves. Are we going to let them starve (because, under your program, that's their choices - either stay and starve or go home and starve). You know as well as I do that we will create a welfare structure that supports and cares for them.

I absolutely agree that E*verify will help to control the illegal employment issue, but it is nonsensical to think that employment is the ONLY reason they come. What do they get when they get here? Freedom, free education, free welfare, and free healthcare. Still beats the hell out of what they have back home.

During the 2008 recession, jobs dried up. We didn't see 11 million people that couldn't feed themselves. We saw plenty who just went home. Illegal immigrants are practical. They're here to work. If there's no work, they'll go where they can find work or where the cost of living is cheaper.

Or both.

 

[g5000]

Every prosperous nation has a large immigrant labor force that does the shit jobs.

The trick is tweaking the immigration system to align and harmonize with this reality. Ours doesn't.

During immigration debates, an ignorant bigot thinks Americans should be doing the jobs the Mexicans are doing. The bigot thinks Mexicans are stealing our jobs. But when that same idiot is in a public restroom and sees a Mexican on their knees scrubbing someone's shit out of the toilet, you can bet your ass the bigot won't be all indignant he doesn't have that job.

The fact is we had full employment just a few short years ago with just as many illegals here back then as we have now. There may have even been more.

But then this giant economic crash happened which caused jobs to evaporate. And it wasn't the shit-scrubbing jobs which disappeared. That's not the new faces you see in the unemployment lines.

The idiot bigot has forgotten that. It does not get more willfully delusional than that!

The unemployed in Arizona:

The unemployed in New York:

These people did not lose their jobs to Mexicans.

 

[Pop23]

1. Americans, even the foaming at the mouth immigrant haters on this forum, will not do a lot of the work illegal labor does. Those who think they would are full of shit. Migrant work is called that for a reason. Very few Americans are going to leave their suburban tract house, climb into their SUV, and travel from farm to farm over hundreds of miles to pick lettuce on one farm for a couple weeks, and then pick blueberries on another farm far away for a couple weeks, and then pick apples on another farm even farther away for a couple weeks. This blazing fact has been proven every time there is a crackdown on illegals on farms. The crops rot in the ground, and on the vine and branch, even when the farmers raise the wage to 20 bucks an hour.

2. E-Verify is great, until it isn't. This idea of punishing employers for hiring illegals exposes the ignorance of the proponents of that idea. If a farmer needs 50 laborers to bring in the crops, but our fucked up immigration quota system only provides him 30 laborers, he has no choice but to hire 20 illegals. Instead of treating the symptom, fix the goddam disease! Straighten out our quota system. Oh, but that would require...you know...the Republicans to allow an immigration bill to come up for a vote in the House. Dumbasses.

Christ, point two. He just has to pay more. It would raise the cost of the produce, but since he would have to compete for employees, wages increase

 

[Pop23]

Every prosperous nation has a large immigrant labor force that does the shit jobs.

The trick is tweaking the immigration system to align and harmonize with this reality. Ours doesn't.

During immigration debates, an ignorant bigot thinks Americans should be doing the jobs the Mexicans are doing. The bigot thinks Mexicans are stealing our jobs. But when that same idiot is in a public restroom and sees a Mexican on their knees scrubbing someone's shit out of the toilet, you can bet your ass the bigot won't be all indignant he doesn't have that job.

The fact is we had full employment just a few short years ago with just as many illegals here back then as we have now. There may have even been more.

But then this giant economic crash happened which caused jobs to evaporate. And it wasn't the shit-scrubbing jobs which disappeared. That's not the new faces you see in the unemployment lines.

The idiot bigot has forgotten that. It does not get more willfully delusional than that!

The unemployed in Arizona:

The unemployed in New York:

These people did not lose their jobs to Mexicans.

They get hungry enough they would take those jobs

 

[whitehall]

How about this...when they get arrested in the US for various crimes load them on a bus and ship them back and tighten up border security at the same time. It's a step in the right direction.

 

[candycorn]

At a hundred illegals per bus, we could do it in a mere 110,000 bus loads.

Or we could jam them in at 200 per bus and be rid of them in only 55,00 bus loads.

The question remains once we get them out of here is who is going to do the work they once did?

Americans? Fat chance.

Okay, busses, where does the bus go? For example, do we drive it to Nogales, stop 50 feet from the border, disboard the occupants and tell them to march across the border?

A follow up or two?;

• what if some of them came from Panama? Do we still send them back to Mexico?
• What if Mexico didn't want them?
• What if the Mexicans on the other side of the border doesn't want the actual Mexicans we're telling to march across the bridge?

 

[Anathema]

I often hear about the conservative plans to deport the illegal aliens who are here.

I was hoping to get the logistics solved. If you believe the figure of 11,000,0000 illegals being here, how would you go about such a feat? What if the illegal alien had a child while he or she was here; would you separate the family since the baby is a citizen?

Sounds pretty impractical to me.

Eleven million bullets would not be all that expensive and we can just dump the bodies in the ocean.

 

[candycorn]

Actually, there are two phases to a proposed deportation program.

1) You must secure the border first. Deporting someone who can just walk back in the next day is self-defeating.

2) There does not need to be some massive deportation program. We don't need to roll gray buses through the neighborhoods picking up the people with the yellow IA on their shirt. Instead, we simply deport them - using procedures currently in place - as they come to the attention of authorities. Stopped for speeding? Get deported. Arrested for domestic abuse? Get deported. The good ones stay; the bad ones go. With no in-bound illegals (see 1), the problem eventually goes away.

3) Those children born of illegal immigrants (both parents) should be deported with their parents. Those children born with only one illegal immigrant parent would, of course, be allowed to stay with the citizen parent. Not the law now? Make it the law.

See? Nothing is so difficult that logic can't solve it.

Thanks for your response.

The good ones stay? Aren't they still illegal?

Secondly, an estimated forty percent of illegals here are those who over-stayed their initial visas. This is from the Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323916304578404960101110032

So the wall that you're building and securing the border won't apply to approximately 7 of the 11 million who are here. That is a fact. My question to you is this; are these the "good ones" you're talking about or do you simply mean ones that haven't committed a crime?

 

[candycorn]

How about this...when they get arrested in the US for various crimes load them on a bus and ship them back and tighten up border security at the same time. It's a step in the right direction.

Same questions I asked earlier:

Do we only deport those who commit crimes and ignore the rest?
How do we "deport" them?

 

[g5000]

Same questions I asked earlier:

Do we only deport those who commit crimes and ignore the rest?
How do we "deport" them?

If an illegal immigrant commits a crime, we jail them. Once they have served their time, we pay for their ticket on the next flight back to their home country and escort them directly from prison to their seat.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

... and, when you do this, and it works perfectly, you will have 11 million people who can't feed themselves. Are we going to let them starve (because, under your program, that's their choices - either stay and starve or go home and starve). You know as well as I do that we will create a welfare structure that supports and cares for them.

I absolutely agree that E*verify will help to control the illegal employment issue, but it is nonsensical to think that employment is the ONLY reason they come. What do they get when they get here? Freedom, free education, free welfare, and free healthcare. Still beats the hell out of what they have back home.

Why are you sure we'd create a welfare system? Adult illegal aliens get basic free stabilization medical treatment, but not much else is legally mandated. Kids get educations. But, if a guy can't pass everify, we could deport him and his dependents.

Plus, illegals are helping pay for the public school system anyway every time they pay sales tax on something they buy or make a rent payment to their landlord. It does add to the cost of education, however, when more money has to be spent on classes to teach their children English. We've been having that issue in Vegas.

 

[Vandalshandle]

There is no way in hell that you are going to get a rational answer to this question. Your basic conservative feels like he should just lean out of his window and yell, "Get off of my lawn", and the problem will be solved.

 

[candycorn]

... and, when you do this, and it works perfectly, you will have 11 million people who can't feed themselves. Are we going to let them starve (because, under your program, that's their choices - either stay and starve or go home and starve). You know as well as I do that we will create a welfare structure that supports and cares for them.

I absolutely agree that E*verify will help to control the illegal employment issue, but it is nonsensical to think that employment is the ONLY reason they come. What do they get when they get here? Freedom, free education, free welfare, and free healthcare. Still beats the hell out of what they have back home.

Why are you sure we'd create a welfare system? Adult illegal aliens get basic free stabilization medical treatment, but not much else is legally mandated. Kids get educations. But, if a guy can't pass everify, we could deport him and his dependents.

Plus, illegals are helping pay for the public school system anyway every time they pay sales tax on something they buy or make a rent payment to their landlord. It does add to the cost of education, however, when more money has to be spent on classes to teach their children English. We've been having that issue in Vegas.

Not sure if it's ever been calculated but if the illegal aliens are counting toward school funding for the districts but if they are, I wonder how the districts would react to the lesser funding.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I often hear about the conservative plans to deport the illegal aliens who are here.

I was hoping to get the logistics solved. If you believe the figure of 11,000,0000 illegals being here, how would you go about such a feat? What if the illegal alien had a child while he or she was here; would you separate the family since the baby is a citizen?

Sounds pretty impractical to me.

And each would be entitled to due process in accordance with the Constitution pursuant to deportation.

The more intelligent and appropriate course of action would be to pass immigration reform with a provision allowing those undocumented to waive their right to a hearing, be subject to appropriate fines and punitive measures, including paying any taxes due, be placed on probation, and go to the back of the citizenship line – which would be George W. Bush's immigration reform plan.