The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[mikegriffith1]

sure--FDR wanted the Japanese to attack the US

Uh, yes, FDR absolutely wanted the Japanese to attack us. He wanted to provoke them to fire the first shot so that he would have an excuse to get us into WW II. Harry Stimson's diary confirms this. We also know this from the McCollum Memo. We also have hard evidence that FDR knew the Japanese were considering attacking Pearl Harbor in the event of war, and that he and others in high places knew a Japanese fleet was heading toward Pearl Harbor in late November (but they carefully avoided warning the commanders in Hawaii about any of this information).

FDR believed that the Japanese would do little damage in attacking Pearl Harbor. FDR, like many other Americans, believed the Japanese were inferior, that they were lousy soldiers, that they were lousy pilots, and that they would be a pushover in any armed conflict. FDR believed that any Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor or the Philippines would do minimal damage.

 

[harmonica]

sure--FDR wanted the Japanese to attack the US

Uh, yes, FDR absolutely wanted the Japanese to attack us. He wanted to provoke them to fire the first shot so that he would have an excuse to get us into WW II. Harry Stimson's diary confirms this. We also know this from the McCollum Memo. We also have hard evidence that FDR knew the Japanese were considering attacking Pearl Harbor in the event of war, and that he and others in high places knew a Japanese fleet was heading toward Pearl Harbor in late November (but they carefully avoided warning the commanders in Hawaii about any of this information).

FDR believed that the Japanese would do little damage in attacking Pearl Harbor. FDR, like many other Americans, believed the Japanese were inferior, that they were lousy soldiers, that they were lousy pilots, and that they would be a pushover in any armed conflict. FDR believed that any Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor or the Philippines would do minimal damage.

that's one of the most insane/idiotic posts I've ever read

 

[elektra]

We showed we had a working bomb at Alamogordo
By early 1946 we were in full production of atomic bombs, under any scenario we would have had multiple bombs to drop on Japan
Even if we dropped a “dud” we had one of the original three

I don’t agree with the assumption that the only way Japan would have surrendered was by slaughtering 150,000 innocent civilians

Nobody, ever said that was the only way to win the war. It was the quickest.
150,000 innocent civilians? Yet, some were leaders in the defense industry? Some of those innocent civilians certainly believed that raping virgins made their sons strong, hence that is what they taught their sons. Many of those innocent civilians in one way or another supported the war.

Japan was not a culture like our own, of individuals, they fought as one, for the Emperor. Innocent civilians? Why don't simply describe them as a million kittens slaughtered. Either one is about as close to reality.

"Under any scenario we would have had multiple bombs", except of course the scenario that existed in 1945.

There were two bombs, no more. If one was a dud, we would be left with one. We were lucky they worked. Very lucky.

Of course, we did drop leaflets, in which many Japanese heeded, and left the city saving their lives.

 

[mikegriffith1]

that's one of the most insane/idiotic posts I've ever read

And yours is one of the most laughably uninformed, head-in-the-sand posts I've read. Have you heard of Stimson's diary, where he talks about FDR saying that we needed to maneuver Japan into firing the first shot? Have you heard of the McCollum Memo, which laid out a strategy for provoking Japan to war, and that even said that if the steps could provoke Japan to war it would be "all the better"? Have you heard of the declassified FBI Hoover-Ladd memos, where we learn that Army Intelligence knew "almost the entire plans" for the attack on Pearl Harbor days before the attack? Have you heard of Admiral Raneft's diary, where he talks about U.S. Navy Intelligence advising him that there was a Japanese fleet a few hundred miles from Pearl Harbor? Have you heard of the intercepted phone conversation between FDR and Churchill, where Churchill warned FDR that British Intelligence had intercepted Japanese naval messages that indicated Pearl Harbor would be attacked? (This fact was confirmed by former CIA Director William Casey in his memoir, by the way.) Have you heard of any of these things?

Here are some books you might wanna read:

James Johns, Reassessing Pearl Harbor: Scapegoats, a False Hero and the Myth of Surprise Attack

Dr. George Victor, The Pearl Harbor Myth: Rethinking the Unthinkable

Dr. Timothy Wilford, Pearl Harbor Redefined: USN Radio Intelligence in 1941

Here are some online sources you might wanna break down and read:

Evidence of Foreknowledge: The Attack Was No Surprise to FDR

 

[harmonica]

that's one of the most insane/idiotic posts I've ever read

And yours is one of the most laughably uninformed, head-in-the-sand posts I've read. Have you heard of Stimson's diary, where he talks about FDR saying that we needed to maneuver Japan into firing the first shot? Have you heard of the McCollum Memo, which laid out a strategy for provoking Japan to war, and that even said that if the steps could provoke Japan to war it would be "all the better"? Have you heard of the declassified FBI Hoover-Ladd memos, where we learn that Army Intelligence knew "almost the entire plans" for the attack on Pearl Harbor days before the attack? Have you heard of Admiral Raneft's diary, where he talks about U.S. Navy Intelligence advising him that there was a Japanese fleet a few hundred miles from Pearl Harbor? Have you heard of the intercepted phone conversation between FDR and Churchill, where Churchill warned FDR that British Intelligence had intercepted Japanese naval messages that indicated Pearl Harbor would be attacked? (This fact was confirmed by former CIA Director William Casey in his memoir, by the way.) Have you heard of any of these things?

Here are some books you might wanna consider reading:

James Johns, Reassessing Pearl Harbor: Scapegoats, a False Hero and the Myth of Surprise Attack

Dr. George Victor, The Pearl Harbor Myth: Rethinking the Unthinkable

Dr. Timothy Wilford, Pearl Harbor Redefined: USN Radio Intelligence in 1941

Here are some online sources you might wanna break down and read:

Evidence of Foreknowledge: The Attack Was No Surprise to FDR

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
so FDR knew they were going to attack Pearl????!!
hahahahahhahahhahahahahah

 

[elektra]

What an absolute load of crap. "All the Japanese people I have spoken to" = fabricated bullshit. Pilots dropping incendiary bombs unable to BBQ because of the smell of burning flesh - as they flew by high and fast = poor fiction. Kids 'training' with bamboo spears was meant to be propaganda for domestic consumption to bolster rapidly waning public support for an obviously lost cause. That you are still swallowing propaganda that wasn't even meant for you over 70 years ago suggests you are a remarkably gullible buffoon.

YOU LYIMG PIECE of human excrement, the Japanese REFUSED to surrender I have documents to prove it, they also cut bamboo and made bamboo spears fpr the civilian population to human wave attack the invaders that is NOT propaganda they were training them to do it.

look up the defintion of unkotare and find out how close to the truth you are

 

[mikegriffith1]

so FDR knew they were going to attack Pearl????!! hahahahahhahahhahahahahah

Uh, so I take it you're not going to dare yourself to ready anything that will challenge your denialism?

FYI, Governor Thomas E. Dewey, the Republican presidential nominee in 1944, became aware that vital intelligence had been withheld from Kimmel and Short. In September, two months before the election, he told General Marshall's top aide, Colonel Carter Clarke, that Roosevelt knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor and that he should be impeached for not warning the commanders in Hawaii. Dewey's sources included military whistle blowers, members of Congress, and probably Admiral Kimmel's attorney, Charles Rugg, who found out about the withheld intercepts when Captain Safford told Kimmel about them. Dewey was going to expose FDR's duplicity but decided against it after General Marshall told him that doing so could harm the war effort because it would alert the Japanese that their codes had been broken. Dewey suspected that this argument was questionable, but he decided to err on the side of caution and to defer to Marshall.

And why do you keep screwing up the formatting in your replies?

 

[harmonica]

so FDR knew they were going to attack Pearl????!! hahahahahhahahhahahahahah

Uh, so I take it you're not going to dare yourself to ready anything that will challenge your denialism?

FYI, Governor Thomas E. Dewey, the Republican presidential nominee in 1944, became aware that vital intelligence had been withheld from Kimmel and Short. In September, two months before the election, he told General Marshall's top aide, Colonel Carter Clarke, that Roosevelt knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor and that he should be impeached for not warning the commanders in Hawaii. Dewey's sources included military whistle blowers, members of Congress, and probably Admiral Kimmel's attorney, Charles Rugg, who found out about the withheld intercepts when Captain Safford told Kimmel about them. Dewey was going to expose FDR's duplicity but decided against it after General Marshall told him that doing so could harm the war effort because it would alert the Japanese that their codes had been broken. Dewey suspected that this argument was questionable, but he decided to err on the side of caution and to defer to Marshall.

And why do you keep screwing up the formatting in your replies?

''screwing up my replies'' hahahhahahahhahahah
FDR should've been an actor --he was good at it, yes?

 

[elektra]

SOOOOOOO, what they had were civilians with pitchforks. They were desperate to surrender, and that's what they did once the USSR got into it and they had no chance for a negotiated settlement that allowed them to keep some of their colonies.

Yet, they still sunk the Indianapolis killing 900 sailors? On July 30th of 1945. So desperate to surrender, trying so hard to surrender, yet still very much fighting? Killing? How are they trying to surrender yet very much fighting the war?

The USSR? They caused Japan to stop fighting. Yet the USSR fought Japan until the 20th of August. The USSR declared war against Japan on August 8th. How come that did not force the Japanese to surrender? The 8th goes by and it is the 9th, still no surrender. We then drop the bomb on the Nagasaki.

Plenty of time for Japan to react to the USSR's entry in the the Pacific War. Yet no reaction. All we know is that the Japanese fought the USSR until the 20th of August.

The Emperor of Japan announced surrender on August 15th. Yet, they fought the USSR another 5 days? That certainly shows that the USSR did not force a surrender.

At best the USSR was a thread on our coattail.

 

[elektra]

Uh, so I take it you're not going to dare yourself to ready anything that will challenge your denialism?

You made a far fetched statement that I buried in the dust, I see you did not dare respond. Denial, that is where you live. There have been many facts I have posted that you have ran from.

 

[harmonica]

so FDR knew they were going to attack Pearl????!! hahahahahhahahhahahahahah

Uh, so I take it you're not going to dare yourself to ready anything that will challenge your denialism?

FYI, Governor Thomas E. Dewey, the Republican presidential nominee in 1944, became aware that vital intelligence had been withheld from Kimmel and Short. In September, two months before the election, he told General Marshall's top aide, Colonel Carter Clarke, that Roosevelt knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor and that he should be impeached for not warning the commanders in Hawaii. Dewey's sources included military whistle blowers, members of Congress, and probably Admiral Kimmel's attorney, Charles Rugg, who found out about the withheld intercepts when Captain Safford told Kimmel about them. Dewey was going to expose FDR's duplicity but decided against it after General Marshall told him that doing so could harm the war effort because it would alert the Japanese that their codes had been broken. Dewey suspected that this argument was questionable, but he decided to err on the side of caution and to defer to Marshall.

And why do you keep screwing up the formatting in your replies?

why do you not indent/etc your posts?? they run on and on and on and on
sentences run on and on and on

 

[elektra]

I see some people are doing everything but addressing the point that three days was far too soon to be dropping another atomic bomb on Japan,

There is no addressing a false premise. There is no addressing opinion not based on any fact.

 

[elektra]

, not to mention the fact that the bomb should not have been dropped on a civilian target,

Civilian target, Japan's cities were part of the war. They had military headquarters. Centers of communications. Transportation links. Industry manufacturing war materials. Ship yards to repair warships. Shall I make a list for you?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Your opinion is meaningless to me. I hope you are offended

Your opinion is meaningless to everyone because as usual, you don't know what you are talking about.

Know a lot more than you on every topic. Your life has been a waste.

 

[elektra]

We rightly said that the 9/11 attack on the Twin Towers in NYC was barbaric, but in the Pacific War we killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, mostly women and children, in our air raids on Japanese cities.

Hyperbole, comparing surprise attacks to a war the Japanese started? Mostly women and children? Maybe so, that is war.

Would mikegriffith of fought the war different, why yes he would. It is obvious the OP is against killing men and women and children if they start a war with us. Under the strategy of waiting. We would of simply never of fought again. We would of surrendered to the Japanese.

We would not of fought WW II. That is the argument, not to fight.

We would be ruled by Germany and Japan. Most of us would not exist. We would not be free. We most likely would not have computers or nice TVs. Germany and Japan would rule the world. As dictators.

Mikegriffith1 has made the point that he would of lost WW II

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Hey. I've read books on the subject. Nagasaki was deemed necessary to convince the Japanese that we had more than one bomb.

A bomb detoneated anywhere the japanese could confirm it would have sufficed, in that case. So that is not a good argument.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There is no addressing a false premise.

Uh...what? Of course there is. You argue why the premise is false.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It is obvious the OP is against killing men and women and children if they start a war with us

Bullshit. Nothing he has said indicates this simple idea. Try to have an honest discussion.

 

[elektra]

There is no addressing a false premise.

Uh...what? Of course there is. You argue why the premise is false.

Guilty until proven innocent?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There is no addressing a false premise.

Uh...what? Of course there is. You argue why the premise is false.

Guilty until proven innocent?

No, it's discussion. Unless you are just content to say "Nuh uh!", which i suppose is fine. But then you're out of the discussion.