"The Obamacare implosion is worse than you think"

[dblack]

It's a good day to be an insurance company. Or to own stock in one.

It might be a good day to be an executive in an insurance company but it's a piss poor day to own one.

The risk models are off the charts bad - literally. Trillions of dollars are going to be lost when the dust settles. The only way the actuarial math works is if the government has an unlimited amount of money it can pay towards the risk corridors - and it doesn't. The government has enough money to kick the can down the road, which it will.

It was a really dumb move to destroy the individual major medical market just to provide subsidies to 3% of the population. The country spent more than the entire market cap of eHealth just to try and duplicate the exact same function. The experts in Washington have done the same with re-insurance.

The entire system is getting inundated with adverse selection. The clusterfuck is so bad that even a government hospital (Moffitt) was dropped by a premier Medicare Advantage vendor.

I suspect that the major players in the industry, those driving ACA from the outset, will make out like the thieves they are.

 

[asterism]

Bravo bravo bravo millions of Americans now have healthcare, meanwhile thousands die in republican states that have not extended medicare. Here's a state that's genuinely American can do, and genuinely Christian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvOufbUM53g


"If Nikki White had been a resident of any other rich country, she would be alive today."

"Around the time she graduated from college, Monique A. "Nikki" White contracted systemic lupus erythematosus; that's a serious disease, but one that modern medicine knows how to manage. If this bright, feisty, dazzling young woman had lived in, say, Japan - the world's second - richest nation - or Germany (third richest), or Britain, France, Italy, Spain, Canada, Sweden, etc., the health care systems there would have given her the standard treatment for lupus, and she could have lived a normal life span. But Nikki White was a citizen of the world's richest country, the United States of America. Once she was sick, she couldn't get health insurance. Like tens of millions of her fellow Americans, she had too much money to qualify for health care under welfare, but too little money to pay for the drugs and doctors she needed to stay alive. She spent the last months of her life frantically writing letters and filling out forms, pleading for help. When she died, Nikki White was thirty-two years old." From prologue of book linked below.

"On September 11, 2001, some three thousand Americans were killed by terrorists; our country has spent hundreds of billions of dollars to make sure it doesn't happen again. But that same year, and every year since then, some twenty thousand Americans died because they couldn't get health care. That doesn't happen in any other developed country. Hundreds of thousands of Americans go bankrupt every year because of medical bills. That doesn't happen in any other developed country either." T.R. Reid 'The Healing of America'


Amazon.com: The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care: T. R. Reid: Books

I'd like to see a link to substantiate your claim that anyone has died in "republican states that have not extended medicare."

I'd also like to see where extending Medicare was ever an option for the "republican states."

 

[Politico]

It's a good day to be an insurance company. Or to own stock in one.

It might be a good day to be an executive in an insurance company but it's a piss poor day to own one.

The risk models are off the charts bad - literally. Trillions of dollars are going to be lost when the dust settles. The only way the actuarial math works is if the government has an unlimited amount of money it can pay towards the risk corridors - and it doesn't. The government has enough money to kick the can down the road, which it will.

It was a really dumb move to destroy the individual major medical market just to provide subsidies to 3% of the population. The country spent more than the entire market cap of eHealth just to try and duplicate the exact same function. The experts in Washington have done the same with re-insurance.

The entire system is getting inundated with adverse selection. The clusterfuck is so bad that even a government hospital (Moffitt) was dropped by a premier Medicare Advantage vendor.

Hardly. One the risk corridor payments start coming in they will make out like bandits.

 

[william the wie]

Make out like bandits in a government run ogliopoly? The Ds are going to run on buggering taxpayers blind to gain donations and do so openly, OK.

 

[dblack]

Make out like bandits in a government run ogliopoly? ...

Duh?

 

[william the wie]

Make out like bandits in a government run ogliopoly? ...

Duh?

look at politico's post above mine that I was responding to.

The more I look at this bill the more confusingly stupid it looks:

The Ds are saying that they will make the insurance companies richer at taxpayer expense.

Zip code administratuon without any state, local or federal administrators.

No mechanism to deal with caregiver and subsidy getter migration.

Was any thought taken in putting this bill together?

 

[dblack]

Make out like bandits in a government run ogliopoly? ...

Duh?

look at politico's post above mine that I was responding to.

The more I look at this bill the more confusingly stupid it looks:

The Ds are saying that they will make the insurance companies richer at taxpayer expense.

Zip code administratuon without any state, local or federal administrators.

No mechanism to deal with caregiver and subsidy getter migration.

Was any thought taken in putting this bill together?

I think the lobbyists who wrote it put some thought I into it. Or at least into what they could get out of it.

Google Liz Fowler.

 

[william the wie]

Quite possibly true but is that politically survivable for the Ds?

 

[dblack]

Quite possibly true but is that politically survivable for the Ds?

I sure hope not. But if that just cycles us back to another round of neo-con jackals, I'd hardly call it a win.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Make out like bandits in a government run ogliopoly? ...

Duh?

look at politico's post above mine that I was responding to.

The more I look at this bill the more confusingly stupid it looks:

The Ds are saying that they will make the insurance companies richer at taxpayer expense.

Zip code administratuon without any state, local or federal administrators.

No mechanism to deal with caregiver and subsidy getter migration.

Was any thought taken in putting this bill together?

This bill? Yer funny.

 

[TemplarKormac]

 

[Spoonman]

Even whne they move the goal posts they still can't call this a success

Morici: Hardly Time to Call Obamacare a Success - TheStreet

 

[william the wie]

Even whne they move the goal posts they still can't call this a success

Morici: Hardly Time to Call Obamacare a Success - TheStreet

And this is still the honeymoon. Care giver and and care taker migrations have yet to begin, subsidy tax rates for subsidy changes are a year away.

 

[Jroc]

Democratic Rep Warns That Obamacare’s Worst About to ‘Hit the Fan’

But those Democrats who are not defending controversial votes they may have taken regarding the ACA, or who are not beholden to the president who is desperate to avoid one last rebuke from the electorate, are warning of a far bleaker future for Democrats with the Obamacare millstone around their necks.

Speaking to Boston Herald Radio last week, the only member of Massachusetts’ all-Democrat congressional delegation to vote against the 2010 health care reform law, Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-MA), warned that the Obamacare — well, you know — is about to “hit the fan.”

“There are parts of Obamacare, or the Affordable Care Act, that were postponed because they are unpalatable,” Lynch observed. “As these provisions come into effect, the administration thus far is saying, ‘Gee, we really can’t handle this right now so we’re going to delay it.’”

“These obligations keep piling up,” he continued. “Any individual with an individual healthcare plan that exceeds $10,200 is in a Cadillac plan situation. They’re going to have to pay — that employer, if they provide that, and many do today let alone in 2018 — will have to pay a 40 percent tax on the amount over the minimum established — excuse me, the maximum established under the Affordable Care Act.”

“That is a huge tax. It’s the first time in this country’s history that we have actually taxed health care,” Lynch said. “We used to treat it like food, that people would die without it. Well, we’re in a new day now.”

Here, Lynch implies that Republicans could — if they were so unscrupulous — turn the liberal strategy of accusing those Republican-led states that refused to expand Medicaid of murder on its head.

“We will lose seats in the House,” the Bay State congressman confessed when pressed on the likely political impact of the ACA. “I am fairly certain of that based on the poll numbers that are coming out from the more experienced pollsters down there. And I think we may lose the Senate.”

Lynch did not mince words when he said that the Democrats’ dire political straits are “primarily because of health care.”

Democratic Rep Warns That Obamacare?s Worst About to ?Hit the Fan? | Mediaite

 

[william the wie]

Democratic Rep Warns That Obamacare’s Worst About to ‘Hit the Fan’

But those Democrats who are not defending controversial votes they may have taken regarding the ACA, or who are not beholden to the president who is desperate to avoid one last rebuke from the electorate, are warning of a far bleaker future for Democrats with the Obamacare millstone around their necks.

Speaking to Boston Herald Radio last week, the only member of Massachusetts’ all-Democrat congressional delegation to vote against the 2010 health care reform law, Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-MA), warned that the Obamacare — well, you know — is about to “hit the fan.”

“There are parts of Obamacare, or the Affordable Care Act, that were postponed because they are unpalatable,” Lynch observed. “As these provisions come into effect, the administration thus far is saying, ‘Gee, we really can’t handle this right now so we’re going to delay it.’”

“These obligations keep piling up,” he continued. “Any individual with an individual healthcare plan that exceeds $10,200 is in a Cadillac plan situation. They’re going to have to pay — that employer, if they provide that, and many do today let alone in 2018 — will have to pay a 40 percent tax on the amount over the minimum established — excuse me, the maximum established under the Affordable Care Act.”

“That is a huge tax. It’s the first time in this country’s history that we have actually taxed health care,” Lynch said. “We used to treat it like food, that people would die without it. Well, we’re in a new day now.”

Here, Lynch implies that Republicans could — if they were so unscrupulous — turn the liberal strategy of accusing those Republican-led states that refused to expand Medicaid of murder on its head.

“We will lose seats in the House,” the Bay State congressman confessed when pressed on the likely political impact of the ACA. “I am fairly certain of that based on the poll numbers that are coming out from the more experienced pollsters down there. And I think we may lose the Senate.”

Lynch did not mince words when he said that the Democrats’ dire political straits are “primarily because of health care.”

Democratic Rep Warns That Obamacare?s Worst About to ?Hit the Fan? | Mediaite

Obamacare is the gift that keeps on giving to non-Ds. I still stand by my no repeal and no replace position. It will be gutted even more, probably by Obama himself to a huge extent before he leaves office. However the key problem of administration by zip code when there are no state, local or federal zipcode administrators on site to administer the program within the zipcode will not be gutted or even addressed. Some false hopes of repeal will be seen when:

A revolt from the left breaks out in the Democratic party, probably in 2016.

When the market takes a way over due correction, probably this year.

When one or more blue states are rated junk or default on their bonds, no prediction on that one

The jackasses may be more arrogant and delusional than dumb but even the those of the Dumbo totem do not appear to be dumb enough to split their party wide open in order to save their main opposition so Ocare will be carefully gutted but not repealed.

 

[Listening]

 

[Spoonman]

So pretty much what republicans and the Tea Party have been predicting all along is becoming a reality

Obamacare Nightmare is Just Beginning Now

 

[dblack]

I have a question for those of you predicting disaster for ACA. What it if doesn't crash and burn as you predict? What if it more or less works? What if people acquiesce to the law, do as they're told and allow the insurance industry to establish itself as de facto branch of government? What if the costs are simply absorbed quietly into our already ridiculous national debt and we just keep on limping along, not with a 'bang', but with an extended whimper?

In that case, will you drop your opposition to Obamacare?

 

[Meister]

I have a question for those of you predicting disaster for ACA. What it if doesn't crash and burn as you predict? What if it more or less works? What if people acquiesce to the law, do as they're told and allow the insurance industry to establish itself as de facto branch of government? What if the costs are simply absorbed quietly into our already ridiculous national debt and we just keep on limping along, not with a 'bang', but with an extended whimper?

In that case, will you drop your opposition to Obamacare?

"What if".......if it was delivered as it was packaged?
"What if".......if you like you Dr. You can keep your Dr.?
"What if".......if you like your healthcare insurance, you can keep your insurance?
"What if".......the average family will save $2,500 a year?

I like these "what if" games.

 

[dblack]

I have a question for those of you predicting disaster for ACA. What it if doesn't crash and burn as you predict? What if it more or less works? What if people acquiesce to the law, do as they're told and allow the insurance industry to establish itself as de facto branch of government? What if the costs are simply absorbed quietly into our already ridiculous national debt and we just keep on limping along, not with a 'bang', but with an extended whimper?

In that case, will you drop your opposition to Obamacare?

"What if".......if it was delivered as it was packaged?
"What if".......if you like you Dr. You can keep your Dr.?
"What if".......if you like your healthcare insurance, you can keep your insurance?
"What if".......the average family will save $2,500 a year?

I like these "what if" games.

Care to answer it then? I'm not saying it will happen, but it could. They might manage to string this out, paper over all the missteps and wait it out long enough for people to accept their 'fate'. What then? I'm just curious whether the bulk of the opposition here is based on the idea that corporate/government services "can't work", or that even if they can, they shouldn't be allowed. Speaking for myself, even if it all worked as advertised, I'd be bitterly opposed.