The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[wharfrat]

Harder to prove you were in fear of your life from a five year old. Is that really a measure for when child abuse is self defense, fear? This whole self defense based on fear thing.. hmm. My gut says fear is the mind killer and we should not make decisions based on fear alone. But that may just be a residual ingrain from my approval of the Frank Herbert Dune books.

You are implying that when one fires a weapon at you, it is unreasonable to have a fear of death or great bodily injury. If that is how you feel, then yes, I think you need to put the Dune books down

Since your assumption of my implication is incorrect... you may be missing the subtlety of my point.

I doubt that I am.

It would be reasonable to have a fear of a five year old with a gun.

It would be unreasonable to have a fear of a five year old with a knife.

The standard is reasonable fear.

 

[Gadawg73]

So under the theory of folks here that believe this is AN ADDED charge, which it isn't, the prosecution COULD INDICT Zimmerman on that charge if he is found not guilty of murder.
Nope, can't do it because even though this is allowed it is a LESSER charge.
All the jury will be doing IS CONSIDERING THE LESSER CHARGE, as they can blanket say NO to that and go over NO evidence on that if they CONSIDER to do so.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

only someone like Nancy Grace would understand this.

I won't hear her 'reasons'--sending a cyber slap her way. I have been wanting to do that.

If they throw in this "kitchen sink" charge of child abuse, she will probably start calling George "TotDad".

snarl--a 1000 more cyber slaps for her.

justice in the state of FL. I am beginning to 'hate' FL--a long list of reasons. No plans for violence--ftr. Get some of their socialites that assist the military involved--the Petraeus scandal still irritates me--for one thing.

I am blathering---at a loss for words.

Here's another reason to hate Florida. Every animal in the state is designed to kill people in some way.

 

[testarosa]

Let go get off?

Just make it up as you go along ass

 

[Foxfyre]

Good morning all. I'm sorry, but this whole moving the goal posts thing is just mind boggling. And in my opinion sets a terrible precedent. Can't get a guy for murder? Well then let's change the rules midstream find something we CAN convict him on. When did that become a process of the legal system?

 

[Edgetho]

Not adding charges, consider a lesser charge.
And MOST times it is THE DEFENSE that does this.
Standard procedure done in most all criminal cases, especially murder cases.
Media is making this appear to be something unusual for ratings.
Imagine that, media distorting, slanting and twisting the facts.

If it's offered for a plea bargain, that's one thing. And it is adding charges.

Adding new charges after the fact is appalling. Unless they start the trial over again, Zimmerman has no chance to defend himself against those charges.

Wrong, it is not adding charges.
It is offering a lesser charge which IN MOST CASES the defendant is begging for.
Self defense is Zimmerman's defense AND THE SAME defense would have been used.
That is always the argument the defense uses when they ask for lesser charges.
Manslaughter defense is same as murder or any defense in this as his defense is SELF DEFENSE.
And a good one.

Manslaughter is just as bad, if not worse, than Murder II in this Case because the victim was a Minor.

Florida has a number of Cimes that are subject to the 10-20-Life rule.

Gets complicated. But some of those 'Lesser Charges' ain't so 'less'

 

[RKMBrown]

You are implying that when one fires a weapon at you, it is unreasonable to have a fear of death or great bodily injury. If that is how you feel, then yes, I think you need to put the Dune books down

Since your assumption of my implication is incorrect... you may be missing the subtlety of my point.

I doubt that I am.

It would be reasonable to have a fear of a five year old with a gun.

It would be unreasonable to have a fear of a five year old with a knife.

The standard is reasonable fear.

I added more..

More particularly, my point is that we can let fear pass, and choose reason over instinctive muscle memory. I postulate to you that fear and acting on fear is the abject opposite of reasonable action.

 

[testarosa]

If they throw in this "kitchen sink" charge of child abuse, she will probably start calling George "TotDad".

snarl--a 1000 more cyber slaps for her.

justice in the state of FL. I am beginning to 'hate' FL--a long list of reasons. No plans for violence--ftr. Get some of their socialites that assist the military involved--the Petraeus scandal still irritates me--for one thing.

I am blathering---at a loss for words.

Here's another reason to hate Florida. Every animal in the state is designed to kill people in some way.

Well this is true with the exception of dolphins and turtles. Scratch the turtles those snapping ones will take your foot off.

Not a user friendly outdoors for a girl who grew up barefoot in the woods.

 

[wavingrl]

If they throw in this "kitchen sink" charge of child abuse, she will probably start calling George "TotDad".

snarl--a 1000 more cyber slaps for her.

justice in the state of FL. I am beginning to 'hate' FL--a long list of reasons. No plans for violence--ftr. Get some of their socialites that assist the military involved--the Petraeus scandal still irritates me--for one thing.

I am blathering---at a loss for words.

Here's another reason to hate Florida. Every animal in the state is designed to kill people in some way.

Time for GA to guard the border. lol--unleash the alligators and let nature take its course.

 

[testarosa]

Hey!

 

[RKMBrown]

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Herbert, Frank (1965)

 

[testarosa]

George is trying to find his happy spot.

 

[wavingrl]

Good morning all. I'm sorry, but this whole moving the goal posts thing is just mind boggling. And in my opinion sets a terrible precedent. Can't get a guy for murder? Well then let's change the rules midstream find something we CAN convict him on. When did that become a process of the legal system?

Never move to FL--that is my best advice.

Disgusting, truly disgusting.

It seems to me they are desperate if that is any consolation.

If this were my trial I would have to be removed. It is just not right.

 

[CrazedScotsman]

I was driving down the street going the speed limit and kid jumps out from inbetween some parked cars. I hit my brakes, but it was to late and I hit the kid, killing him. Now I'm in court today fighting for my life because I'm charged with Third Degree Murder and Child Abuse. It was an accident and I broke no laws but because I'm white and the kid is black, I'm going to prison for 25 years.

 

[The Rabbi]

Why is the Zimmerman case devided so sharply along partisan lines? With only a very few exceptions the lefties here believe GZ is guilty and the conservatives wait until the trial is over. I couldn't understand why, since GZ isn't white, the lefties were so ready to string him up.

Moments ago, it hit me.

It's only partially about race. True, if TM was white or hispanic, no one would care, but race isn't the real reason they want GZ to fry. It's guns.

GZ defended himself with a gun and a black man is dead. They cannot stand the thought that GZ might have legally used a gun to defend himself. It's about guns, and self-defense and even Stand-Your-Ground.

If GZ is convicted, they can use this case to revive their efforts to take away our rights and that is THE issue.

The left never ever cares about right and wrong, they only care about winning.

What? Who has done that?

The vast majority of posters have already declared his innocence/guilt. No ones "waiting for the trial to be over".

And if he's convicted the right will whine endlessly about the "miscarriage of justice".

And if he's set free the left will whine endlessly about "the miscarriage of justice".

Except we've had a chance to see both sides make their case. The state has utterly failed to make its. What do you call a conviction where the state failed to make its case?

 

[wharfrat]

Since your assumption of my implication is incorrect... you may be missing the subtlety of my point.

I doubt that I am.

It would be reasonable to have a fear of a five year old with a gun.

It would be unreasonable to have a fear of a five year old with a knife.

The standard is reasonable fear.

I added more..

More particularly, my point is that we can let fear pass, and choose reason over instinctive muscle memory. I postulate to you that fear and acting on fear is the abject opposite of reasonable action.

I actually need to correct myself...the standard isn't reasonable fear.

The standard is "a reasonable belief that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm.:

 

[TemplarKormac]

On the issue of following.

 

[wavingrl]

Hey!

do you live there--sorry. Just hit the road north. No beaches in the ATL but maybe some bit of sanity. Every other day at least.

 

[The Rabbi]

This is outrageous... the judge is allowing the State to get away with bush league tactics in the courtroom. "Just when I though this case couldn't get any more bizarre" as West puts it.

What are they doing? Are they showing films of napalm drops on Vietnamese villages with burned kids and suggesting that Zimmerman could have been part of that?

 

[Gadawg73]

If it's offered for a plea bargain, that's one thing. And it is adding charges.

Adding new charges after the fact is appalling. Unless they start the trial over again, Zimmerman has no chance to defend himself against those charges.

Wrong, it is not adding charges.
It is offering a lesser charge which IN MOST CASES the defendant is begging for.
Self defense is Zimmerman's defense AND THE SAME defense would have been used.
That is always the argument the defense uses when they ask for lesser charges.
Manslaughter defense is same as murder or any defense in this as his defense is SELF DEFENSE.
And a good one.

Manslaughter is just as bad, if not worse, than Murder II in this Case because the victim was a Minor.

Florida has a number of Cimes that are subject to the 10-20-Life rule.

Gets complicated. But some of those 'Lesser Charges' ain't so 'less'

I agree BUT this was a manslaughter case and not a murder case to begin with.
Yes, Florida is a right wing kook state. Since there was a gun involved the Republican Legislature passed a mandatory 10 year sentence on this if he is convicted.
Just another example of the police state we live in these days. Amazing the foolish liberals here want to roast Zimmerman as most times it is the state and their vast resources prosecuting petty drug offenses and sending people with health problems to prison for mandatory 10 year drug sentences for a handful of crack cocaine.
At one time in the Federal system you would get less time if you robbed a bank and pistol whipped the teller than if you had over a certain amount of crack cocaine.
People need to wake up as we have doubled the prison population since 2005 and most of them are petty dope cases with mandatory sentences. In Georgia it is 25 years mandatory sentence if you flash your penis at a minor as that is child molestation under the law here . There have been many arrests on college campuses of students and adults tailgating before football games and guys are taking a whiz behind the bushes. "Daddy, I saw that man's penis". I know of one plea of 25 to do 2 on those cases and the others have been plea bargained down to disorderly conduct or something else but the LAW REMAINS.
Same as Florida laws. Blame the Republican Legislatures for their draconian laws.