The Political Gorilla in the room for the GOP and it ain't the shutdown

[OriginalShroom]

The language of anti-immigrant folks denies the access they need to keep the world as they see it.

They do not communicate (consider Fox or Rush or drudge) with the more young, dark, and female components of our society, who fear the TPM.

The bluing of the country will continue until the GOP changes culturally and demographically.

The left always want to make it about race or gender... It's about neither.

It's about legal and illegal.

Those who entered our country legally and those who entered it illegally.

Let's reward those who entered legally and punish those who entered illegally.



It really isn't about race no matter how many time the left claims it is. That is just another one or their lies that the media refuses to question because most of them are leftwingers also.

 

[Kondor3]

Ya cause we should reward illegal activity by making it legal. What part of the fact it doesn't work don't you grasp? In the 80's we amnestied 3 million with the idea it would solve the problem now we have 10 to 20 million, lets double down and do the same stupid shit that attracts even more, hell at this rate we might as well just declare all Mexican citizens are US Citizens.

Why not annex Mexico and get it over with?

Don't you think Mexico would object?

Why should they?

We don't object (effectively) when they send millions of their poor across our borders without permission.

Hell, some of us just bend over and enjoy it, fer Crissakes!

 

[Kondor3]

"..."

Yeah... ol' Hanoi Jane... may she roast in Hell for betraying her country in wartime like that...

 

[PredFan]

Personally, I would like to see the DNC win everything. This all is their mess and they need to own it. It's going to fall apart and it needs to fall apart on their watch.

 

[velvtacheeze]

Demographically, the GOP has NO future of success. Their base almost entirely white, with the tokens that they trot out during election years.

The GOP's hostility to blacks and Hispanics will cost them over the next generation, and they will only have themselves to blame for it.

 

[The T]

Personally, I would like to see the DNC win everything. This all is their mess and they need to own it. It's going to fall apart and it needs to fall apart on their watch.

They already own it. The Progressives are on a Crusade to Blame, minimize, Deny, obfuscate...with the Republicans/TEA Party (people) as their primary targets.

WE aren't budging an inch. They can play their games...THEY expose themselves all the while.

 

[Vox]

Growing latino community has NEVER supported the GOP ( except W - twice, and exactly becasue of that his immigration reform was shot down by dimocraps) - so it would be extremely stupid on the part of GOP to worry about something irrelevant.

It does not mean I do not support measures on immigration. No, not reform - our law is pretty good, just ENFORCE it.
It is the enforcement part I have problem with.
The existent law can have some needed amendments on a part of securing the border and other provisions.

 

[The T]

Demographically, the GOP has NO future of success. Their base almost entirely white, with the tokens that they trot out during election years.

The GOP's hostility to blacks and Hispanics will cost them over the next generation, and they will only have themselves to blame for it.

YOU Velveetabreath...need to get out of your HERD mentality...DO YOU realize how stupid you look?

 

[Vox]

Immigration Reform = Codespeak for Shamnesty

Our immigration system and laws are just fine.

They just aren't being enforced, and the borders aren't being adequately protected.

By either side.

The Republicans want the low-cost near-slave labor.

The Democrats want millions of grateful future voters.

Both parties are acting against the best interests of the United States and its People.

Both parties are acting like what they have become - Vote Whores.

We don't need Immigration Reform.

We need 12,000,000 Illegal Aliens to remove from United States sovereign soil.

We need to create conditions sufficiently hostile to Illegal Aliens (no housing, jobs, banking, services, etc.) so that they will leave under their own power and at their own expense.

Self-deportation is the answer.

 

[Vox]

Demographically, the GOP has NO future of success. Their base almost entirely white, with the tokens that they trot out during election years.

The GOP's hostility to blacks and Hispanics will cost them over the next generation, and they will only have themselves to blame for it.

YOU Velveetabreath...need to get out of your HERD mentality...DO YOU realize how stupid you look?

that is the other example of the bubble they live in

 

[The T]

Demographically, the GOP has NO future of success. Their base almost entirely white, with the tokens that they trot out during election years.

The GOP's hostility to blacks and Hispanics will cost them over the next generation, and they will only have themselves to blame for it.

YOU Velveetabreath...need to get out of your HERD mentality...DO YOU realize how stupid you look?

that is the other example of the bubble they live in

Agreed...and a bubble running out of air...so steal it...

 

[Londoner]

The American Private sector wants access to cheap labor and cheap raw material, which means they support policies which lead to more open borders. Why? Because capital moves more efficiently to resources and labor markets when it isn't slowed by strict border regulations.

The Reagan Revolution (which Clinton supported) pushed hard to globalize production so that capitalism would have access to all the world's labor markets and raw materials. The Reagan Revolution used the Cold War as a context to bring resource rich parts of the developing world under the Eagle's protective wing.

Talk Radio Republicans - the ones without much formal education who are being manipulated by the billionaires who fund rightwing think tanks and pop media - do not understand the logic of Capital.

Capital wants the cheapest possible operating costs. Cheaper foreign labor = higher profits. Higher profits = better incentives for investment. Closed borders are inefficient because the obstruct capital's merger with cheap foreign labor/resources. This is why large corporations - the proponents of Globalization - are remaking the world with unitary regulations, so capital is able to flow more efficiently to any part of the world where it can generate higher returns. The logic of capital is to level the world and destroy cultural differences SO THAT profit seekers are not slowed down by different languages, laws, customs and regulations. That is, investors don't want to find out that they can't mine the ultra-cheep precious metals in Africa because local customs prevent tampering with sacred ground. When it comes to the ultra-cheap Chinese labor that produces so many of Walmart's products, US investors don't care about our Cold War anti-communist tradition. Capital does not care about borders, traditions, laws. It cares about profit.

AGAIN: Capital wants open boarders so that it's easier to access the cheapest labor and raw materials. Imagine if energy was limited to the supplies of the territorial U.S. The cars would stop running without Saudi Arabia and the lights would go out on the American economy.

When Reagan took over Washington, business said "this is our chance to get rid of the profit-sucking, incentive-destroying costs of American Labor, which labor was over 1,000X higher than the labor costs in the developing world. Put simply: Nike investors make more money when their sneaks are made by workers earning less than $5/day in Taiwan.

Corporations don't want borders to prevent capital from accessing cheaper operating conditions. Capitalism dies when it's productivity is boxed inside the artificial lines of nation states - this is why so much effort has gone into creating the global economic system, so that Capitalism would never run out of resources. If an illegal Mexican can do the job cheaper, capital wants access to that illegal Mexican worker. Period.

Capitalism is the most productive force in human history. It chews through resources faster than any other economic system by an unimaginable factor. When the oil is gone in Texas, Capital bulldozes the American border to go in search of it elsewhere.

"Talk Radio Republicans" don't get it. Their party is deeply in bed with a movement which does not want to place any limits on capitalism, including borders. They want capital to go wherever it needs to go in order to secure higher returns for investors. If you try to limit Capitalism with regulations and borders and rules and laws, you will limit profits and destroy the very incentives needed for investment and economic growth. The Logic of Capital is that goods must be made for the absolute lowest price so that it can secure the highest possible returns. If borders stand in the way, than the border must be compromised or weakened to the point where capital flows with maximum efficiency.

Which is to say.

If you want to understand why we have porous borders, than study the Logic of Capital and the point of Globalization. Capital wants instant access to every corner of the globe. It doesn't care about culture and customs. It sees only labor and resources - and it doesn't want customs, traditions or culture to stand in its way. It wants a ONE WORLD system where all the world's labor and resources can be delivered to it at the cheapest possible costs, without having to stumble at each border to deal with different languages, laws, etc. Capital wants efficiency.

Here is another thing "talk radio republicans" don't understand.

The Republican Party doesn't really hate open borders. Like I said above. The Reagan Revolution rapidly accelerated the globalization of production so that it could give American corporations and investors cheaper labor + cheaper raw materials = higher profits. The Republican Party is merely using the open-border consequences of globalization (illegal aliens) to scare morons into the voting booth . . . where they unwittingly vote for people and policies that make the problem worse.

 

[Kondor3]

So, the question becomes, are The Corporatists running the United States, or are The People running it?

 

[The T]

So, the question becomes, are The Corporatists running the United States, or are The People running it?

Former...And Obama as he decries them...gets rewarded handsomely...and is a crime against the people...and the Constitution.

 

[Kondor3]

So, the question becomes, are The Corporatists running the United States, or are The People running it?

Former...And Obama as he decries them...gets rewarded handsomely...and is a crime against the people...and the Constitution.

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..."

 

[Pheonixops]

Immigration Reform = Codespeak for Shamnesty

Our immigration system and laws are just fine.

They just aren't being enforced, and the borders aren't being adequately protected.

By either side.

The Republicans want the low-cost near-slave labor.

The Democrats want millions of grateful future voters.

Both parties are acting against the best interests of the United States and its People.

Both parties are acting like what they have become - Vote Whores.

We don't need Immigration Reform.

We need 12,000,000 Illegal Aliens to remove from United States sovereign soil.

We need to create conditions sufficiently hostile to Illegal Aliens (no housing, jobs, banking, services, etc.) so that they will leave under their own power and at their own expense.

Self-deportation is the answer.

LOL, do you really think that there will be a million plus mass exodus of illegals immigrants "self deporting"? Other than almost outright searching for them, rounding them up, and deporting them, that "self deportation" concept won't work in my opinion. I think securing our borders, and a path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants who are already here would seem to be the best course.

 

[Kondor3]

"...LOL, do you really think that there will be a million plus mass exodus of illegals immigrants 'self deporting'?..."

Only if we have the courage to...

1. make it unlawful to give an Illegal a job

2. make it unlawful to sell or rent residential real estate to an Illegal

3 make it unlawful for an Illegal to attend a public school

4. make it unlawful for an Illegal to drive a vehicle

5. make it unlawful to give an Illegal a State ID Card or Drivers License

6. make it unlawful to provide medical services to an Illegal (except emergency live-saving)

7. make it unlawful to provide banking or wire-transfer or financial or insurance services or products to an Illegal

8. make it unlawful to provide social services or welfare to an Illegal

9. make it unlawful to declare a polity (city, etc.) as a Sanctuary for Illegals

...and put real teeth into those laws; sharp enough to make it very painful if caught violating the law...

...on a nationwide basis with no wiggle-room for local override.

Then watch those 12,000,000 Illegals fall all over each other in the mad scramble for the border; all under their own power, at their own expense, at the speed of light.

All without spending a dime on deportation or rounding-up and without setting dangerous legal and societal precedents that would pave the way for the NEXT round of goddamned Illegals to swarm across our borders.

But we won't do that.

We haven't had that kind of balls in a very long time now.

Our present-day wussified, pussified society is going to give these Illegals exactly what they wanted all along.

Laughing at us behind our backs, all the way to the Shamnesty Jubilee...

Until the NEXT round of 12,000,000 or 20,000,000 or 40,000,000 sneak-in, dig-in like tics, and tug the heartstrings of the Uber-Liberals du jour for their Admission Ticket...

A country that cannot or will not enforce its own sovereignty and borders and immigration policy is doomed to collapse...

A disgusting and spit-worthy lack of backbone...

 

[JimH52]

If the GOP continues to ignore the 800 pound gorilla or continues to block real immigration reform with totally ridiculous and very revealing demands, such as the above post, they will be gone or irrelevant within 10 years.

The GOP plan to this point has been to win Governorships soon before the next US census so that they can control the dramatic gerrymandering necessary to control the House. It has been working well to this point, but first Colorado and soon Texas will be beyond their control. They will be unable to carve out these "safe" districts for the TP extremes. That will be one of the final nails in the GOP coffin.

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL. Dregs of the third world. Boy, does that resonate about what was said about the Jews, Eastern Europeans, Irish, Italians and every other wave of immigants that washed up on our shores. But here we are, in a nation that has grown to be the leading nation in the world because of the efforts of all those prior 'dregs'. And the churlish assholes of that time were just as wrong at our present assholes on this board.

 

[Vox]

LOL, do you really think that there will be a million plus mass exodus of illegals immigrants "self deporting"? Other than almost outright searching for them, rounding them up, and deporting them, that "self deportation" concept won't work in my opinion. I think securing our borders, and a path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants who are already here would seem to be the best course.

You would be surprised how many actually do that when obstacles arise.
a lot of people come here to make money and to stay if getting lucky.
the first part is working and the second part is usually not payed attention to - otherwise there won't be ANY illegals - there are many ways to legalize oneself, given the wish.
However, the legalization takes effort and money - not the amount which can not be payed, but, nevertheless, quite a big one. So many chose to stay illegal and save money - and wait for the "amnesty" ( the stupidity is beyond imaginable - one of the goals of "amnesty" is to make all those illegals to PAY, but they won't believe it).

I know all the calculations and miscalculations of the immigrant community pretty well. I am an immigrant myself.
The current law and it's enforcement is all that is needed. For both sides of the problem.