rylah
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 22,037
- 4,697
- 290
For some context, when we're talking about "antizionism" in Orthodox circles, the modern jargon can confuse us. Those who know little might get confused into thinking that the Orthodox community actually meant, or acted as the modern Palestinian politicians suggest.
Rabbi Dushinsky along with Rbbi Blouy opposed the secular govt., but R. Dushinsky supported military efforts to free Jerusalem. Both agreed on immigration and while opposing the secular rule actually recognized the British authority. Rabbi Blouy later separated from the Aguda and formed the Neturei Karta, viewed as an extreme jealous minority by other most Orthodox communities.
Testimonies of “Agudas Israel” at the Royal Comission
The "Aguda" is demanding recognition as a special congregation. - Opposes restriction of the Aliyah
ssl image
The 15th meeting of the Royal Commission was opened this morning with the testimonies of the representatives of “Agudas Israel”. Present were : Rabbi Dushinsky, Rabbi Bloy, Dr. Itzhak Broyar, Z. Shein of “Palei Agudat Israel”. Dr Bucksboim wasn't present due to his illness...Rabbi Dushinsky came in rabbinic garments, with a high fur hat and long coat.
Rabbi Dushinsky opened the testimony with short words and Mr. Abadi read them from the writing in English. The witness emphasized THE TRIPLE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE NATION OF ISRAEL, TORAH OF ISRAEL AND LAND OF ISRAEL. The nation of Israel can't fulfill the most of the Torah but in the land of Israel. During the thousands years of its' diaspora the nation of Israel didn't assimilate and didn't connect to another land due to the connection that the Torah obligates between the nation and the land and this connection never passed. All parts of Israel saw themselves as people of land of Israel and expected for redemption to be able to return to her, and the Balfour Declaration enabled them to do hereby. The holy Torah promised the land to the nation of Israel although we're commanded not to conquer her with force and not to take over others. The Will of G-d is to establish the national home for the nation of Israel for His good and G-d will motivate the heart of the nations of the land to understand us and act together with us to make her a land of peace and love”. In the name of the nation of Torah, that in its' name the Aguda sees itself as allowed to speak, the rabbi express a hope that the commission won't rule a restriction on Aliyah or purchase of land to enable us establish our home here. All the eyes of the nation are at You that You won't disappoint our hope and that You find the way to recompensate well all the residents of the land.
After these opening words began the investigation. Lord Peel first asked some questions:
L.P. “Whom does the this delegation represent – all off the Orthodox, are there parts of “Agudas Israel” that the delegation doesn't represent?”
Rabbi Blouy answers, that the delegation came in the name of “Ashkenazi city committee” and “Agudas Israel”.
Lord Peel: “Does in his words about the Aliyah the rabbi meant that there won't be restriction on the immigration of Orthodox Jews only or Jews that are not Orthodox?”
Rabbi Dushinsky answers that it meant all of Israel.
L.P.: “No discrimination?”
R.D.:”- No!”
L.P.: “ In his words that the commission won't restrict the ability of the Aliyah he also means that there won't be any restriction by the ability of absorption?”
R.D.: “The Aliyah will be according to the mandate.”
L.P.: “Is there anything in the mandate about this ability?”
Rabbi Dushinsky answers that he cannot know.
Lord Peel says that the commission read the memorandum that “Agudas Israel” has presented with attention, that her wishes are clear, therefore there will be only few questions.
L.P.: “As we understand You demand a special recognition of Your congregation as the National commission by the same rights?”
Rabbi Blouy: “Yes.”
L.P.: “That the recognition will occur upon giving of special certificates. Support of Your education, and recognition of the rest of Shabat in the Jewish settlements and villages?”
R.B.: responds positively to two last questions and about the question of Aliyah he requests permission to talk in a closed meeting.
L.P: “The National committee was recognized as the representative of Jews of the land of Israel, isn't it an internal issue for the Jews to decide which body shall be recognized, is it in our authority to discuss this issue??
R.B:”It's in Your authority to clarify complaints of Jews or Arabs against the government's methods of realizing the mandate.”
L.P. “But don't You represent all the Jews?”
R.B.: “We think that also a part of Jews will be able to give complaints.”
L.P: “What is the part that You constitute?”
R.B: “About a fifth of all the population, 80,000 souls.”
L.P: “Centered in some special location?”
R.B: “Scattered in the cities of Land of Israel”
L.P.: “What do You actually demand?”
Rabbi Blouy: “1. Right to wage taxes on members of our congregation.
2. Recognition of our rabbinate as the rabbinate of Knesset Israel.
3. Recognition and support of our schools.”
L.P. “If You'll be recognized others will also come to demand so?”
R.B: “We cannot assure that, however there's an ideological basis only for 2 congregations, the National committee that is established on a national secular basis and “Agudas Israel” that recognizes the rule of Torah in all parts of life.”
L.P.: “Would You oppose establishing a joint committee with the National committee?”
R.B.: “We proposed that about two years ago”
L.P.: “And wasn't accepted?”
R.B: “No. We see a benefit that the external representation will be unified”
Sir Horace Rumbold: “ And the negotiation is continuing?”
R.B.: “We thinkl it stopped. Because some time before the events the government invited us to to a negotiation about the question of us entering the Kneset and such negotiation we rejected..”
Rumbold: “Did the negotiation stop because the right of vote for women?”
R.B.: “This is a detail. The element is imposing Torah in the life of the congregation.”
Rumbold: “But You oppose the right of vote of the woman?
R.B.: “Of course”.
Rumbold asks about the intention of the rabbi not to restrict the Aliyah. Rabbi Blouy answers that Rabbi Dushinsky meant Aliyah according to ability of reception.
From there Rumbold moves to abservance of Shabbat.
21 Dec. 1936 “Davar”- Paper of the Workers of Israel
Rabbi Dushinsky along with Rbbi Blouy opposed the secular govt., but R. Dushinsky supported military efforts to free Jerusalem. Both agreed on immigration and while opposing the secular rule actually recognized the British authority. Rabbi Blouy later separated from the Aguda and formed the Neturei Karta, viewed as an extreme jealous minority by other most Orthodox communities.
Testimonies of “Agudas Israel” at the Royal Comission
The "Aguda" is demanding recognition as a special congregation. - Opposes restriction of the Aliyah
ssl image
The 15th meeting of the Royal Commission was opened this morning with the testimonies of the representatives of “Agudas Israel”. Present were : Rabbi Dushinsky, Rabbi Bloy, Dr. Itzhak Broyar, Z. Shein of “Palei Agudat Israel”. Dr Bucksboim wasn't present due to his illness...Rabbi Dushinsky came in rabbinic garments, with a high fur hat and long coat.
Rabbi Dushinsky opened the testimony with short words and Mr. Abadi read them from the writing in English. The witness emphasized THE TRIPLE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE NATION OF ISRAEL, TORAH OF ISRAEL AND LAND OF ISRAEL. The nation of Israel can't fulfill the most of the Torah but in the land of Israel. During the thousands years of its' diaspora the nation of Israel didn't assimilate and didn't connect to another land due to the connection that the Torah obligates between the nation and the land and this connection never passed. All parts of Israel saw themselves as people of land of Israel and expected for redemption to be able to return to her, and the Balfour Declaration enabled them to do hereby. The holy Torah promised the land to the nation of Israel although we're commanded not to conquer her with force and not to take over others. The Will of G-d is to establish the national home for the nation of Israel for His good and G-d will motivate the heart of the nations of the land to understand us and act together with us to make her a land of peace and love”. In the name of the nation of Torah, that in its' name the Aguda sees itself as allowed to speak, the rabbi express a hope that the commission won't rule a restriction on Aliyah or purchase of land to enable us establish our home here. All the eyes of the nation are at You that You won't disappoint our hope and that You find the way to recompensate well all the residents of the land.
After these opening words began the investigation. Lord Peel first asked some questions:
L.P. “Whom does the this delegation represent – all off the Orthodox, are there parts of “Agudas Israel” that the delegation doesn't represent?”
Rabbi Blouy answers, that the delegation came in the name of “Ashkenazi city committee” and “Agudas Israel”.
Lord Peel: “Does in his words about the Aliyah the rabbi meant that there won't be restriction on the immigration of Orthodox Jews only or Jews that are not Orthodox?”
Rabbi Dushinsky answers that it meant all of Israel.
L.P.: “No discrimination?”
R.D.:”- No!”
L.P.: “ In his words that the commission won't restrict the ability of the Aliyah he also means that there won't be any restriction by the ability of absorption?”
R.D.: “The Aliyah will be according to the mandate.”
L.P.: “Is there anything in the mandate about this ability?”
Rabbi Dushinsky answers that he cannot know.
Lord Peel says that the commission read the memorandum that “Agudas Israel” has presented with attention, that her wishes are clear, therefore there will be only few questions.
L.P.: “As we understand You demand a special recognition of Your congregation as the National commission by the same rights?”
Rabbi Blouy: “Yes.”
L.P.: “That the recognition will occur upon giving of special certificates. Support of Your education, and recognition of the rest of Shabat in the Jewish settlements and villages?”
R.B.: responds positively to two last questions and about the question of Aliyah he requests permission to talk in a closed meeting.
L.P: “The National committee was recognized as the representative of Jews of the land of Israel, isn't it an internal issue for the Jews to decide which body shall be recognized, is it in our authority to discuss this issue??
R.B:”It's in Your authority to clarify complaints of Jews or Arabs against the government's methods of realizing the mandate.”
L.P. “But don't You represent all the Jews?”
R.B.: “We think that also a part of Jews will be able to give complaints.”
L.P: “What is the part that You constitute?”
R.B: “About a fifth of all the population, 80,000 souls.”
L.P: “Centered in some special location?”
R.B: “Scattered in the cities of Land of Israel”
L.P.: “What do You actually demand?”
Rabbi Blouy: “1. Right to wage taxes on members of our congregation.
2. Recognition of our rabbinate as the rabbinate of Knesset Israel.
3. Recognition and support of our schools.”
L.P. “If You'll be recognized others will also come to demand so?”
R.B: “We cannot assure that, however there's an ideological basis only for 2 congregations, the National committee that is established on a national secular basis and “Agudas Israel” that recognizes the rule of Torah in all parts of life.”
L.P.: “Would You oppose establishing a joint committee with the National committee?”
R.B.: “We proposed that about two years ago”
L.P.: “And wasn't accepted?”
R.B: “No. We see a benefit that the external representation will be unified”
Sir Horace Rumbold: “ And the negotiation is continuing?”
R.B.: “We thinkl it stopped. Because some time before the events the government invited us to to a negotiation about the question of us entering the Kneset and such negotiation we rejected..”
Rumbold: “Did the negotiation stop because the right of vote for women?”
R.B.: “This is a detail. The element is imposing Torah in the life of the congregation.”
Rumbold: “But You oppose the right of vote of the woman?
R.B.: “Of course”.
Rumbold asks about the intention of the rabbi not to restrict the Aliyah. Rabbi Blouy answers that Rabbi Dushinsky meant Aliyah according to ability of reception.
From there Rumbold moves to abservance of Shabbat.
21 Dec. 1936 “Davar”- Paper of the Workers of Israel
Last edited:
