Zone1 They Were Eyewitnesses to the Death and Resurrection

[alang1216]

It has nothing to do with supernatural acts witnessed by the first Christians or the fact that non-Christian historians recorded that the early Christians worshiped Jesus. That's the pertinent evidence. And what you are arguing doesn't discredit those facts. Whatever the early Christians believed about his origin narrative was baked into their belief that Jesus was God. Witnessing supernatural acts carries a lot of weight.

This is just another red herring of yours so you can dismiss the only evidence that we have. And you have still never crafted an alternate narrative that address the evidence that exists. And the reason for that is because there's not one that exists except Jesus is God.

Almost ALL your evidence comes from a single source that I have proven is unreliable. The remaining evidence is second or third and also unreliable.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Nope, don't believe his birth stories, so we don't believe we should forgive anyone for anything.

What a bizarre leap. Who is making this leap?

Are you accidentally telling us that you could not behave morally, if not for fear of a magical god character?

 

[alang1216]

Those who are searching for inaccuracies have little interest in what is genuine.

I think just the opposite is true, how do you know what is genuine unless you ensure it is accurate.

Biblical accounts are written to bring focus onto that which is genuine. Don't miss the forest for the trees.

Agreed, but if you want to build a house with a solid foundation, it is a tree you need to start with.

Try listening more carefully. Let's call on Alan Greenspan. "I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

First, what did the original authors want the original audience to understand? Second, what is it God want to point you towards?

Cute. Since you have that covered go on to God loves you to the point His universe would not be complete without you. How many believe that God loves them, right now, just as they are. Those who know they are well and truly loved by anyone react differently to that person, are different in that relationship. Loving your neighbors is a piece of cake compared to truly recognizing the love God has for you alone. Try that reality, don't just stand on the outside peering towards it.

I have never been able to get across that gap and accept that God is real. I suspect I'll be an atheist until the day I die. After that, who knows?

 

[ding]

Almost ALL your evidence comes from a single source that I have proven is unreliable. The remaining evidence is second or third and also unreliable.

That's not true. Besides it's the evidence that doesn't exist as well. It was never documented he didn't perform any miracles. It was never documented the early Christians didn't worship Jesus as God. It was never documented that Jesus was never resurrected.

But what does it matter. There's no evidence you will accept. You won't even accept the evidence for the universe beginning. So why are you really here?

 

[Meriweather]

if not for fear

I lack fear. Is fear what keeps you from God?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Almost ALL your evidence comes from a single source that I have proven is unreliable.

Especially the part about the Jewish girl lying about her pregnancy. I can't believe those idiots fell for it!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I lack fear. Is fear what keeps you from God?

No you don't. You fear you will not receive your ticket to the forever festival.

If not for that magical prize, none of us would ever have heard of Christianity.

 

[Meriweather]

I think just the opposite is true, how do you know what is genuine unless you ensure it is accurate.

My dad gave me an opal ring. Over time, the opal developed a small chip. Is the opal any less genuine? Likewise, the authors are presenting Jesus' place in the story of God in our midst. You feel you have found a small chip. Does that remove Jesus' place in the story of God in our midst?

 

[Meriweather]

Agreed, but if you want to build a house with a solid foundation, it is a tree you need to start with.

For a solid foundation, begin with rock (as opposed to sand). In any case, we are speaking about seeing a forest, not a tree, and not a house.

 

[otto105]

And for this they were murdered. But they never stopped proclaiming the resurrection

Who exactly viewed the resurrection as per the bible?

 

[Meriweather]

I have never been able to get across that gap and accept that God is real. I suspect I'll be an atheist until the day I die. After that, who knows?

You may know already. Will you choose serving God? Will you choose serving self?

 

[Meriweather]

No you don't. You fear you will not receive your ticket to the forever festival.

If not for that magical prize, none of us would ever have heard of Christianity.

Yawn. True Christianity (and Judaism for that matters) is about God's Way of living this life. The afterlife is nothing to fear. It takes care of itself (even though it is not your festival).

 

[alang1216]

That's not true.

What's not true?

Besides it's the evidence that doesn't exist as well. It was never documented he didn't perform any miracles. It was never documented the early Christians didn't worship Jesus as God. It was never documented that Jesus was never resurrected.

There is no documentation that I never performed miracles, regardless of what I or others may claim. You're just wrong that some of the early Christians didn't worship Jesus as God. There were a whole spectrum of beliefs from fully human to fully divine also a whole range of gods, from 1 to 365.

But what does it matter. There's no evidence you will accept.

There are no fictions you will not ignore if they conflict with your beliefs.

You won't even accept the evidence for the universe beginning. So why are you really here?

There are many theories, a universe from nothing is only one of them.

 

[ding]

What's not true?


There is no documentation that I never performed miracles, regardless of what I or others may claim. You're just wrong that some of the early Christians didn't worship Jesus as God. There were a whole spectrum of beliefs from fully human to fully divine also a whole range of gods, from 1 to 365.


There are no fictions you will not ignore if they conflict with your beliefs.


There are many theories, a universe from nothing is only one of them.

I follow the evidence. You have none.

 

[alang1216]

Especially the part about the Jewish girl lying about her pregnancy. I can't believe those idiots fell for it!

Except that never happened, it was another attempt to fulfill a prophesy. In the Greek translation of the OT, the phrase "young girl" was mistranslated as "virgin girl" so Jesus had to be born of a virgin.

 

[alang1216]

I follow the evidence. You have none.

No you don't. You focus on what confirms your beliefs and ignore anything that doesn't. That is why you can't answer a simple question like "What's not true?".

 

[alang1216]

My dad gave me an opal ring. Over time, the opal developed a small chip. Is the opal any less genuine? Likewise, the authors are presenting Jesus' place in the story of God in our midst. You feel you have found a small chip. Does that remove Jesus' place in the story of God in our midst?

"Presenting Jesus' place" or inventing Jesus' place? If you found out your dad lied to you and the ring was glass and not opal, would you want to know?

 

[alang1216]

You may know already. Will you choose serving God? Will you choose serving self?

Before I die I'll serve myself, my family, my friends, and my neighbors. After I die I'll be happy to serve God.

 

[ding]

No you don't. You focus on what confirms your beliefs and ignore anything that doesn't. That is why you can't answer a simple question like "What's not true?".

Don't be silly. The evidence stands unchallenged.

Maybe go back and re-read the chain to figure it out what's not true. It was clear enough to me.

 

[Meriweather]

"Presenting Jesus' place" or inventing Jesus' place? If you found out your dad lied to you and the ring was glass and not opal, would you want to know?

This is the crux of the matter isn't it? Not only suspecting people of lying, but being certain in your own mind that they are lying.

My dad would not lie to me. Why would you even think such a thing...unless your own dad lied to you, therefore, my dad would lie to me? Think back to when you heard or read something from the Bible where you were certain the Bible was lying to you. What was that verse or in that account?

For those following Jesus' teachings, there is no need to lie. There was good news to share. They had a story to tell, one that connects back to Genesis.