THIS is why I say Israel is fascist

[irosie91]

~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~
"The Palestinians are pretty savvy about Israel's lies and manipulation
and treachery. Others have to learn the hard way like the Palestinians did."

The above quotation is very familiar to me-----I read volumes of rabid anti semitic
Nazi literature which was promulgated in the USA thruout the first half of the 20 th
century and even the latter part of the 19th century in my childhood----the town
was saturated with it------it showed up wherever slobs congregated and filtered around---
little seedy pamphlets and some actual periodicals -----blown around town. The above quotation--
IN VARIOUS PERMUTATIONS----- is simply the basis for justification by genocidal scum---
of their crimes for the past 1800 years. The inebriates kinda sing it

 

[aris2chat]

The fighters were to be handed over to the Israelis at the stadium.

I just saw this ... things get buried so quickly. What fighters did you mean, Aris?

The ones left behind in the camps after Arafat the coward had ran away.

The 2000 or so PLO fighters that did not leave with Arafat.
The stadium which had been used by the palestinians to store and distribute ammunition was cleared by the Israel and prepared to house and process the palestinians to follow Arafat.
Jordan's problem with armed palestinians became Lebanon's problem. Palestinians had no right to establish their own mini states with in Lebanon, to destabilize, to dictate laws, to steal land, to kill citizens, to engage in war with other countries, to attempt to overthrow governments, to engage in hijackings and terrorism both in the country or around the world, to train other terrorist organizations, to engage in illegal arms or drug trade, to carryout assassinations, to engage in war against their host country, etc.
The military could not enter the camps but the palestinians freely moved around the country armed and intimidating even killing the native population with impunity.
Christians opposed what was happening, muslims split, the army disintegrated.......

 

[Roudy]

And I guess that is the first time I ever agreed with irosie.

As far as genocide, if anyone has an interest in undertaking genocide, they can usually find someone to collaborate on it with them. Like Israel did in Lebanon.

So you are now saying that the Palestinians collaborated with the Isrealis to wipe out the Lebanese Christians. Until the Lebanese Christians retaliated and gave the Palestinians a taste of their own medicine. Remind you of the Jordanian army tactics to sort out the Palestinians attempted take over of Jordan, fire on the Palestinians locked up in the concentration camps and mass murder 50,000.

Hard to figure out what this nutjob is saying.

 

[amity1844]

They were doing exactly what you blame Israel for, and they were the best of the lot. They had just been put firmly in their place by Jordan when they tried to take over there by force and this resulted in 50,000 Palestinian deaths in the camps. Then they decided that Lebanon would be an easier option and tried an armed take over there as well. By this time the world knew the way to stop Arafat and the PLO in their tracks was to kill as many of his supporters as possible. He saw the writing on the wall and escaped Lebanon leaving behind many of his followers to face the music for their atrocities in Lebanon. That is why they were killed and it had absolutely nothing to do with Israel, it was all down to the illegal armed take over attempt by the Palestinians and the atrocities and genocides by their hands. They deserved all they got, and the world should have ran them all down until not a one was left free for the war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in the name of Palestine.

AND STILL MORE HATE SPEECH!

I'll give part credit for that answer, but basically that is just not factual. Look at this long list of massacres:

List of war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

check and see how many the Palestinians were even partly responsible for. Then look and see how many the Palestinians were largely the victims of.

THEN please understand my point that the Sabra and Shatila massacre took place in the context of ABSENCE of any sort of fighting force. The PLO, like them or not, were long gone. There was NO BATTLE to speak of, just one long unprovoked massacre OF A 100% CIVILIAN POPULATION.

I like Coyote's definition of fascism better than this one, but this'll do in a pinch:

fas·cism (fshzm)
n.
1. often Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

Every aspect applies to Israel ...
... if you're a Palestinian.

The dictator would be the Jewish people of Israel who hold privilege and civil rights at the expense of the Arab population, the "ethnocrats."

I hope I don't have to say much to substantiate the rest of the definition.

 

[Sally]

They were doing exactly what you blame Israel for, and they were the best of the lot. They had just been put firmly in their place by Jordan when they tried to take over there by force and this resulted in 50,000 Palestinian deaths in the camps. Then they decided that Lebanon would be an easier option and tried an armed take over there as well. By this time the world knew the way to stop Arafat and the PLO in their tracks was to kill as many of his supporters as possible. He saw the writing on the wall and escaped Lebanon leaving behind many of his followers to face the music for their atrocities in Lebanon. That is why they were killed and it had absolutely nothing to do with Israel, it was all down to the illegal armed take over attempt by the Palestinians and the atrocities and genocides by their hands. They deserved all they got, and the world should have ran them all down until not a one was left free for the war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in the name of Palestine.

AND STILL MORE HATE SPEECH!

I'll give part credit for that answer, but basically that is just not factual. Look at this long list of massacres:

List of war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

check and see how many the Palestinians were even partly responsible for. Then look and see how many the Palestinians were largely the victims of.

THEN please understand my point that the Sabra and Shatila massacre took place in the context of ABSENCE of any sort of fighting force. The PLO, like them or not, were long gone. There was NO BATTLE to speak of, just one long unprovoked massacre OF A 100% CIVILIAN POPULATION.

I like Coyote's definition of fascism better than this one, but this'll do in a pinch:

fas·cism (fshzm)
n.
1. often Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

Every aspect applies to Israel ...
... if you're a Palestinian.

The dictator would be the Jewish people of Israel who hold privilege and civil rights at the expense of the Arab population, the "ethnocrats."

I hope I don't have to say much to substantiate the rest of the definition.

You can go on and on that you think Israel is a fascist state, but there are those of us who know just which are the fascist states in the Middle East, even though you conveniently close your eyes to it. Meanwhile, when you really get down to it, the Arabs in Israel certainly are not going to run to one of the other Middle East countries to live. They certainly have it much, much better in Israel than they would elsewhere.

 

[irosie91]

They were doing exactly what you blame Israel for, and they were the best of the lot. They had just been put firmly in their place by Jordan when they tried to take over there by force and this resulted in 50,000 Palestinian deaths in the camps. Then they decided that Lebanon would be an easier option and tried an armed take over there as well. By this time the world knew the way to stop Arafat and the PLO in their tracks was to kill as many of his supporters as possible. He saw the writing on the wall and escaped Lebanon leaving behind many of his followers to face the music for their atrocities in Lebanon. That is why they were killed and it had absolutely nothing to do with Israel, it was all down to the illegal armed take over attempt by the Palestinians and the atrocities and genocides by their hands. They deserved all they got, and the world should have ran them all down until not a one was left free for the war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in the name of Palestine.

AND STILL MORE HATE SPEECH!

I'll give part credit for that answer, but basically that is just not factual. Look at this long list of massacres:

List of war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

check and see how many the Palestinians were even partly responsible for. Then look and see how many the Palestinians were largely the victims of.

THEN please understand my point that the Sabra and Shatila massacre took place in the context of ABSENCE of any sort of fighting force. The PLO, like them or not, were long gone. There was NO BATTLE to speak of, just one long unprovoked massacre OF A 100% CIVILIAN POPULATION.

I like Coyote's definition of fascism better than this one, but this'll do in a pinch:

fas·cism (fshzm)
n.
1. often Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

Every aspect applies to Israel ...
... if you're a Palestinian.

The dictator would be the Jewish people of Israel who hold privilege and civil rights at the expense of the Arab population, the "ethnocrats."

I hope I don't have to say much to substantiate the rest of the definition.

you substantiated nothing----you simply made a fool of yourself-----
the CENTRAL DICTATOR is ALL THE JEWs IN ISRAEL? ---
in fact the definition of the oppressors had been expended by
your depraved heroes to all the jews in the world. I am
inspired----you provided an equal rationale justifying any Coptic
Christian in the world------who wishes to grab a muslim infant and
slit its throat ----

 

[amity1844]

The 2000 or so PLO fighters that did not leave with Arafat.
The stadium which had been used by the palestinians to store and distribute ammunition was cleared by the Israel and prepared to house and process the palestinians to follow Arafat.

AHEM.. Aris, substantiate this. If there were 2000 or so PLO fighters left in Sabra and Shatila, I doubt it would have been taken. In fact I think the biggest guestimate of Palestinian military strength was at 4-5000 fighters at its height. So you enlighten me, I'll retract.

Jordan's problem with armed palestinians became Lebanon's problem. Palestinians had no right to establish their own mini states with in Lebanon, to destabilize, to dictate laws, to steal land, to kill citizens, to engage in war with other countries, to attempt to overthrow governments, to engage in hijackings and terrorism both in the country or "around the world, to train other terrorist organizations, to engage in illegal arms or drug trade, to carryout assassinations, to engage in war against their host country, etc.
The military could not enter the camps but the palestinians freely moved around the country armed and intimidating even killing the native population with impunity.
Christians opposed what was happening, muslims split, the army disintegrated.......

That has always been the dilemma, because the Palestinians did bring all the trappings of statehood along with them. Including a military, as I already allowed. They had NO intention of taking over Lebanon's government, their beef has always been with Israel. While Israel was bombing camps and civilian Lebanese alike, the Lebanese stood pretty solidly behind the Palestinians, amazingly. Then Israel exploited the Kataeb to create a shift in attitudes. Even so, the Palestinians certainly never engaged Lebanon in a war, this is lunacy, and in fact stayed well out of the war for I think over a year at least, until Karantina. The Palestinians had and still have the right to engage Israel in a war, which is what it is. Drug trade, I doubt this. I never heard of any actions taken against Lebanese civilians... "killing the native population with impunity" ???????

And that's right, the Palestinians were in FULL control of the camps. And look what happened IMMEDIATELY when they weren't any longer.

That the Palestinian presence poses an inconvenience at the very least for the native population is not news. But look what the resistance was able to do for the Palestinian people. All I ever heard from Lebanese in the years leading up to the war was that it was "arrogant" for Palestinians to be driving around in open vehicles with arms.

 

[amity1844]

you substantiated nothing----you simply made a fool of yourself-----
the CENTRAL DICTATOR is ALL THE JEWs IN ISRAEL? ---
in fact the definition of the oppressors had been expended by
your depraved heroes to all the jews in the world. I am
inspired----you provided an equal rationale justifying any Coptic
Christian in the world------who wishes to grab a muslim infant and
slit its throat ----

I assure you the "dictator" doesn't have to be a specific individual (poli sci major here). Look at the contrasts in Plato between democracy (rule of the people) and oligarchy (rule of the few) and tyranny (rule of one). A dictatorship does not have to be a banana republic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato's_five_regimes

In platonic terms, Israel is an "ethnocracy"

 

[irosie91]

you substantiated nothing----you simply made a fool of yourself-----
the CENTRAL DICTATOR is ALL THE JEWs IN ISRAEL? ---
in fact the definition of the oppressors had been expended by
your depraved heroes to all the jews in the world. I am
inspired----you provided an equal rationale justifying any Coptic
Christian in the world------who wishes to grab a muslim infant and
slit its throat ----

I assure you the "dictator" doesn't have to be a specific individual (poli sci major here). Look at the contrasts in Plato between democracy (rule of the people) and oligarchy (rule of the few) and tyranny (rule of one). A dictatorship does not have to be a banana republic.
Plato's five regimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you have AGAIN said nothing-----plato has nothing to with it----his "republic"---
is----in fact---an oligarchy. Your rationale is based on YOUR argument that the
"jews" have more rights in Israel than do arab muslims-----and nothing more-----
you then expand to "therefore the arab muslims have a right to murder jews ---a
concept supported thruout the muslim world. The fact is that in all "Islamic" lands--
muslims have more rights than do non muslims------therefore, according to your theory---
non muslims have the RIGHT to grab muslim infants and slit their throats

poly sci? LOL------what happened? you failed calculus and genetics??? be not
ashamed-----it happened to a good 50% of my college class-------and accounts for
most of the graduating poly sci 's and psychology majors

 

[amity1844]

Where are you getting this? Can you provide specific examples?

FOA Plato's republic is an aristocracy, not an oligarchy.

Secondly, Jews do have greater rights than Muslims (read: Palestinian Arabs, whether Christian or Muslim).

The last few sentences are so lunatic I won't even address them. I have no idea where you are getting some of this stuff, irosie.

 

[P F Tinmore]

your "heart of hearts" does not constitute evidence or facts for israel starting the lebanese civil war in 1975. At least, stick to sabra and shatilla.

israel attempted to set up a puppet christian government in lebanon. When that blew up in its face it was called a "civil war."

link

The idea of installing a Quisling in Lebanon is nothing new. In 1955, David Ben-Gurion proposed taking a "Christian officer" and installing him as dictator. Moshe Sharet showed that this idea was based on complete ignorance of Lebanese affairs and torpedoed it. But 27 years later, Ariel Sharon tried to put it into effect nevertheless. Bashir Gemayel was indeed installed as president, only to be murdered soon afterwards.

The Real Aim

Also.

Thus the stage was set for the most heinous massacre of the war. Following the assassination of Bashir Gemayel, the Christian warlord who was supposed to serve as Sharon’s handpicked puppet president, Israeli forces helped usher Christian Phalangist militias into the Palestinian camps of Sabra and Shatila, then surrounded by the Israeli military, providing them with intelligence and operational support.

How Ariel Sharon Shaped Israel?s Destiny | The Nation

You're welcome.

 

[Challenger]

Where are you getting this? Can you provide specific examples?

FOA Plato's republic is an aristocracy, not an oligarchy.

Secondly, Jews do have greater rights than Muslims (read: Palestinian Arabs, whether Christian or Muslim).

The last few sentences are so lunatic I won't even address them. I have no idea where you are getting some of this stuff, irosie.

She's certainly obsessed with Plato

 

[Sally]

Where are you getting this? Can you provide specific examples?

FOA Plato's republic is an aristocracy, not an oligarchy.

Secondly, Jews do have greater rights than Muslims (read: Palestinian Arabs, whether Christian or Muslim).

The last few sentences are so lunatic I won't even address them. I have no idea where you are getting some of this stuff, irosie.

She's certainly obsessed with Plato

It's far better tp be able to discuss Plato than to have to tip toe around the mousetrap, Mr. Rodent trying to figure out how to get the cheese.

 

[aris2chat]

Where are you getting this? Can you provide specific examples?

FOA Plato's republic is an aristocracy, not an oligarchy.

Secondly, Jews do have greater rights than Muslims (read: Palestinian Arabs, whether Christian or Muslim).

The last few sentences are so lunatic I won't even address them. I have no idea where you are getting some of this stuff, irosie.

She's certainly obsessed with Plato

It's far better tp be able to discuss Plato than to have to tip toe around the mousetrap, Mr. Rodent trying to figure out how to get the cheese.

>>Plato discusses five types of regimes. They are Aristocracy, Timocracy, Oligarchy, Democracy, and Tyranny.

Aristocracy is the form of government (politeia) advocated in Plato's Republic. This regime is ruled by a philosopher king, and thus is grounded on wisdom and reason

Plato defines oligarchy as a system of government which distinguishes between the rich and the poor, making of the former its administrators.<<
Plato's five regimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[amity1844]

Exactly. The form "oli" means few. Plato used it to identify the rule of the rich.

And how would Plato define ethnocracy, Aris, consistent with his typology? The dictatorship of the ______________.

Of course Plato may have lived before ethnic cleansing was ever conceived, but somehow I doubt it.

 

[MHunterB]

Clashes break out after Palestinian teen's body found - CNN.com

"The advocacy group Human Rights Watch, for instance, said the killings "would amount to a war crime if committed by an armed group" even as it urged Israel to avoid "collective punishment.""

And THAT is why I say that Hostility needs to re-think her view that killing any and all Jews for breathing in the WB needs to be reconsidered..... it certainly doesn't demonstrate her much-vaunted 'love' for Jews to begin with, but even HRW acknowledges that HAMAS or IJ or any other 'resistance' is committing war crimes to engage in such killings.

It is my understanding that under contemporary legal conventions, such rhetoric as emanates from said groups is 'incitement' and constitutes 'depraved indifference' - which is also criminal behavior.

 

[MHunterB]

Exactly. The form "oli" means few. Plato used it to identify the rule of the rich.

And how would Plato define ethnocracy, Aris, consistent with his typology? The dictatorship of the ______________.

Of course Plato may have lived before ethnic cleansing was ever conceived, but somehow I doubt it.

What interests me is how you persist in ignoring the ethnic cleansing which was committed by the Arab League states, and specifically by Jordan in the WB and Jerusalem......

 

[MHunterB]

Where are you getting this? Can you provide specific examples?

FOA Plato's republic is an aristocracy, not an oligarchy.

Secondly, Jews do have greater rights than Muslims (read: Palestinian Arabs, whether Christian or Muslim).

The last few sentences are so lunatic I won't even address them. I have no idea where you are getting some of this stuff, irosie.

Oh, that's hilarious - Hostility calling someone else's ideas 'lunatic', after more than once insinuating that she 'knows' some of us posting here are members of 'a Zionist terrorist group'!

 

[Mojo2]

ISRAEL UNMASKS ITS GENOCIDAL INTENTIONS
2500 - 3500 unarmed Palestinians dead in a single day
Long, but you Z's especially need to know this:

Lebanon was conceived by the French in order to carve Christian interests out of Syria and create a separate country with a Christian majority. Other minorities inhabit various regions in Lebanon, too: Druze in the southern mountains, Shiite along the southern coast, Maronites in the central and northern mountains, and Shiites in the northern Bekaa valley. This map shows how complicated and interwoven Lebanese demographic are.

Lebanon is a democracy whose National Pact of 1943 specified that the president must be a Maronite Christian, the prime minister a Sunni Muslim, the speaker of the house a Shiite, and the deputy speaker of the house and deputy prime minister Greek Orthodox. This arrangement has been unstable since Lebanese independence in 1943, especially as the demographics have shifted over time.

In 1932 the only census ever undertaken in Lebanon showed a bare Maronite majority of 54%. By 1985, Maronites were around 25% of the population, but still held most of the political power, and currently the total Christian population for all sects is estimated around 40%. See this article for more detailed info on Lebanese demographics and political system.

In addition to the native Lebanese ethnicities, which totaled around 3.5 million in 1980, were around 400,000 stateless Palestinians who were predominantly Muslim. Obviously they had no political participation in Lebanon, but were viewed as a potentially destabilizing presence in an already precarious political and ethnic balance. Palestinians in Lebanon were forbidden to work outside the camps and per capita income was tiny. There was no provision of infrastructure and Palestinians were forbidden to own real estate. They were barred from over 70 professions, including journalism, and the average refugee family was trying to live on less than $7 per day. It was a time and place of acute despair.

The arrival of the resistance sponsored establishment of schools and clinics and even hospitals, and Palestine Red Crescent was established. Midwives’ classes were organized, along with programs to provide education and employment for the disabled, the perpetuation of traditional Palestinian crafts, community gardening and workshops, and teacher education. Publishing houses were formed, poetry, prose and art were fostered, and the PLO even established a radio station. The Institute for Palestine Studies was based in Beirut to foster and publish scholarly study of the Palestinian issue. Its publication The Journal of Palestine Studies is respected around the world. The Palestinian national archives were relocated to Beirut.

This article outlines Palestinian achievements in Lebanon during this time:
On the 27th anniversary of Sabra and Shatila, a return to Beirut | Georgia Straight, Vancouver's News & Entertainment Weekly

The Lebanese civil war which began in 1975 reflected the fragmentation of Lebanese society and was sparked by issues indigenous to Lebanon. For over a year the Palestinians were able to effectively stay out of it and continue their separate existence in the camps. The lines that were drawn in the Lebanese conflict are much too complex to identify in this post, but this list of militias in the Lebanese civil war does a decent job.

Unlike the Lebanese people, the Palestinians were not sectarian. Christian Palestinians supported Arab Nationalism during the civil war in Lebanon and fought against the Maronite Lebanese militias. With the official Lebanese army the weakest of all the fighting forces, and the PLO the strongest and most numerous military force in Lebanon, they were bound to eventually be drawn into the battle, especially as Israel itself became a combatant.

On the morning of 13 April 1975, unidentified gunmen in a speeding car fired on a church in the Christian East Beirut suburb of Ain el-Rummaneh, killing four people including two Maronite Phalangists. With its typical xenophobia, the Maronite Kataeb accused Palestinians, and hours later, Phalangists led by the Gemayels killed 30 Palestinians traveling in Ain el-Rummaneh. Citywide clashes erupted in response to this "Bus Massacre".
From Wikipedia:



Longer version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gKfpsbQ7DM

Can you pass the Israel Test?

 

[Roudy]

Where are you getting this? Can you provide specific examples?

FOA Plato's republic is an aristocracy, not an oligarchy.

Secondly, Jews do have greater rights than Muslims (read: Palestinian Arabs, whether Christian or Muslim).

The last few sentences are so lunatic I won't even address them. I have no idea where you are getting some of this stuff, irosie.

She's certainly obsessed with Plato

It's far better tp be able to discuss Plato than to have to tip toe around the mousetrap, Mr. Rodent trying to figure out how to get the cheese.

Like most people, the terrorist loving rodent keeps repeating the same pattern. It creates sock after sock, only to see one after another get humiliated and go down in flames.

There's a certain lack of self respect that goes with being an Islamofacist supporter, and possible convert to Islam.