This is why we need a living wage

[Noomi]

There are 2 gas stations across the street from each other about 2 miles from my house. One charges $3.439 for a gallon of Shell and the other charges $3.499 for a gallon of Texaco. Where would you, Sheila and Noomi, buy your gasoline? I know where I stop.

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

 

[Andylusion]

Wrong. If you start a business and want to hire someone to help you out, you either pay them a decent wage, or do the work yourself. If you can't afford to pay someone to help you out, your business sucks. If you can't do the extra work yourself, your business sucks and you need to go back to the drawing board.

No way do you have the right to exploit people just because you are too stupid to work out how to make your business flourish.

You work at McDonalds.
Are you being exploited?
Or are you to stupid to find a better job/own a McDonalds franchise.

I find it comical that people get "trapped in dead end jobs". Geeeze people! You were looking for a job when you found that one. You know how to fill out an application. Either make yourself worth more to your present employer or find a better paying job.
There are 2 gas stations across the street from each other about 2 miles from my house. One charges $3.439 for a gallon of Shell and the other charges $3.499 for a gallon of Texaco. Where would you, Sheila and Noomi, buy your gasoline? I know where I stop.

Actually, that's just it. These idiots were likely not really 'looking' for a job.

Most of the ultra-low-end jobs, never advertise for jobs. They are simply in a constant state of hiring.

When I got my job at Advance Auto Parts, they didn't have a sign "now hiring", I was buying wipers blades for my car, and asked if they were hiring. The manager gave me an application, and the following week I was hired.

The jobs that worth having, are the ones you have to look for. If you want any kind of decent job, you have to call up places, ask for interviews, drive to job location and introduce yourself. You have to talk to friends, relatives, co-workers, and ask around to various people, and actually engage in the process of 'looking for a job'.

People don't want to do that. So they go to places that have no standards, and require no effort to get employed, and then are shocked they can't earn $50,000 a year at such an easy job to get.

 

[Andylusion]

There are 2 gas stations across the street from each other about 2 miles from my house. One charges $3.439 for a gallon of Shell and the other charges $3.499 for a gallon of Texaco. Where would you, Sheila and Noomi, buy your gasoline? I know where I stop.

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

Perhaps things are different in your country, but here... at least in my area, there is no service.

No service at all.

I drive up to a fuel pump kiosk, that accepts a credit card.

Top left of the pump, is where you put in your credit card.

You then fuel your car yourself, and drive away.

You never see any employee of the station, unless you want to buy something from the quick-mart.

So between two gas stations, I'm going to the cheapest one.

Now in places where service matters, then I would agree. Good service is worth a few dollars for sure. If you go to a restaurant, and the service is terrible, saving a few bucks doesn't work. You are going to go to a place that has good service, or you are not going.

But even then, the price still has to be low enough to justify going. Yeah, you can pay your waiters $50,000 a year, and get great quality service. But if the price is too high, no customers are going to show up.

Then all the waiters making $50,000 are unemployed, making zero. There is a trade off, where better service at a higher cost, doesn't work.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

There are 2 gas stations across the street from each other about 2 miles from my house. One charges $3.439 for a gallon of Shell and the other charges $3.499 for a gallon of Texaco. Where would you, Sheila and Noomi, buy your gasoline? I know where I stop.

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

What service? We pump our own gas.

 

[HenryBHough]

In The People's Republic of Oregon it is forbidden to pump your own gas. By law - with nasty penalties for even trying.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

There are 2 gas stations across the street from each other about 2 miles from my house. One charges $3.439 for a gallon of Shell and the other charges $3.499 for a gallon of Texaco. Where would you, Sheila and Noomi, buy your gasoline? I know where I stop.

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

What service? We pump our own gas.

Not in New Jersey

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

There are 2 gas stations across the street from each other about 2 miles from my house. One charges $3.439 for a gallon of Shell and the other charges $3.499 for a gallon of Texaco. Where would you, Sheila and Noomi, buy your gasoline? I know where I stop.

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

In some states the legislature eliminated the requirement that there be an attendant at each active pump. This means no one has to pump your fuel for you anymore. The legislature was under pressure from distribution companies demanding that they be allowed to make refueling stations relatively unattended and relatively automatic. To put this another way: "robots took the jobs" or more like "vending machines took the jobs".
In some areas there must be one attendant, usually in a hovel of a store, who has an all-off switch in case something goes wrong. In some areas, there's no attendant and the gas pumps run with no one at the switch caveat emptor.

So why the change to an automated "vending machine" approach?
Because it was cheaper.
Some here will tell you that if the gas station attendants had only bowed and scraped a little lower for their masters, or if the pittance paid could be even more of a pittance, then this change would not happen. It is a lie. The automated system is simply cheaper than a team of humans ever could be.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

What service? We pump our own gas.

Not in New Jersey

I realize that some states think their citizens are incompetent boobs and dont trust them to pump gas.
Not many thank God.

 

[Ernie S.]

There are 2 gas stations across the street from each other about 2 miles from my house. One charges $3.439 for a gallon of Shell and the other charges $3.499 for a gallon of Texaco. Where would you, Sheila and Noomi, buy your gasoline? I know where I stop.

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

Service at a service station? Unheard of here. You drive up, stick your credit card in the slot and pump your gas.
If you want a soda or a pack of smokes you walk inside and hand money to someone who doesn't want to be there.
All things being equal, it's stupid to buy 24 gallons of gasoline and pay $1.44 more because someone once smiled at you.

Same goes for employees. An employee flipping burgers for $7.85/hour will not flip any more at $10.10. He's still a burger flipper, and if he's still making $7.85/hour flipping burgers at 30, it's not his employer's fault.

 

[Ernie S.]

What service? We pump our own gas.

Not in New Jersey

I realize that some states think their citizens are incompetent boobs and dont trust them to pump gas.
Not many thank God.

I've been to New Jersey. Good call on the part of the State Legislature, I'd say

 

[alan1]

You work at McDonalds.
Are you being exploited?
Or are you to stupid to find a better job/own a McDonalds franchise.

I find it comical that people get "trapped in dead end jobs". Geeeze people! You were looking for a job when you found that one. You know how to fill out an application. Either make yourself worth more to your present employer or find a better paying job.
There are 2 gas stations across the street from each other about 2 miles from my house. One charges $3.439 for a gallon of Shell and the other charges $3.499 for a gallon of Texaco. Where would you, Sheila and Noomi, buy your gasoline? I know where I stop.

Actually, that's just it. These idiots were likely not really 'looking' for a job.

Most of the ultra-low-end jobs, never advertise for jobs. They are simply in a constant state of hiring.

When I got my job at Advance Auto Parts, they didn't have a sign "now hiring", I was buying wipers blades for my car, and asked if they were hiring. The manager gave me an application, and the following week I was hired.

The jobs that worth having, are the ones you have to look for. If you want any kind of decent job, you have to call up places, ask for interviews, drive to job location and introduce yourself. You have to talk to friends, relatives, co-workers, and ask around to various people, and actually engage in the process of 'looking for a job'.

People don't want to do that. So they go to places that have no standards, and require no effort to get employed, and then are shocked they can't earn $50,000 a year at such an easy job to get.

I just don't understand the mindset of people that think they should get paid more simply for doing the exact same job day after day and year after year.

Anecdotal Alert!

When my youngest daughter was 16, she got a job at a local chain restaurant that is semi-fast food (I think they call it fast-casual these days). I believe the minimum wage at the time was around $7.00/hour. She started at $8.00/hour taking orders at the cash register and waiting tables, so she got tips also. She got regular raises although they were small.

After she graduated high school, she went looking for better paying work. She got a job as a bank teller at one of the largest banks in the US. She worked hard, learned more about the banking industry and eventually got promoted to Lead Teller. She continued to work hard and learn more and eventually got a job in their auto loan processing department. She worked hard, learned more about the industry and received raises.

The problem that I saw, was that both her and her fiance worked for the same bank and they both worked in loan departments (he was in mortgage loans). Big personal financial risk to have both income earners at the same company and doing similar jobs, so I suggested to them they both look for work elsewhere and the first one to get a different job should switch jobs to reduce their overall financial risk.

My daughter got a job offer working for one of the largest life insurance companies in the US, and it came with a significant raise. She took it.

Now then, she could have continued working as a waitress making low wages and trying to demand a "living wage", but she chose to better herself through hard work and learning more so that she was more valuable to employers.

Her stats are.......
24 years old.
Female.
Zero college education.
Cushy office job.
$44,000 salary plus benefits.
Fiance makes more money than her.
Will be married June 8th.

People can sit around sniveling about things like being paid a "living wage", or they can go out and make things happen for themselves like both my daughters have done (the elder is slightly lower on the economic scale, but she's doing well for herself). I'd feel like a failure as a parent if either of my children were still working minimum wage jobs in their mid 20's or depending upon me for financial support. The opportunities are out there. Waiting for government to give one opportunity is a losing game.

 

[alan1]

There are 2 gas stations across the street from each other about 2 miles from my house. One charges $3.439 for a gallon of Shell and the other charges $3.499 for a gallon of Texaco. Where would you, Sheila and Noomi, buy your gasoline? I know where I stop.

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

Service at a service station? Unheard of here. You drive up, stick your credit card in the slot and pump your gas.
If you want a soda or a pack of smokes you walk inside and hand money to someone who doesn't want to be there.
All things being equal, it's stupid to buy 24 gallons of gasoline and pay $1.44 more because someone once smiled at you.

Same goes for employees. An employee flipping burgers for $7.85/hour will not flip any more at $10.10. He's still a burger flipper, and if he's still making $7.85/hour flipping burgers at 30, it's not his employer's fault.

He can flip them more often, but they still take the same amount of time to cook through. Paying the burger flipper more will not make the burgers cook faster.
Asking, "Do you want fries with that" isn't more successful to the business simply because the person asking is being paid more.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I find it comical that people get "trapped in dead end jobs". Geeeze people! You were looking for a job when you found that one. You know how to fill out an application. Either make yourself worth more to your present employer or find a better paying job.
There are 2 gas stations across the street from each other about 2 miles from my house. One charges $3.439 for a gallon of Shell and the other charges $3.499 for a gallon of Texaco. Where would you, Sheila and Noomi, buy your gasoline? I know where I stop.

Actually, that's just it. These idiots were likely not really 'looking' for a job.

Most of the ultra-low-end jobs, never advertise for jobs. They are simply in a constant state of hiring.

When I got my job at Advance Auto Parts, they didn't have a sign "now hiring", I was buying wipers blades for my car, and asked if they were hiring. The manager gave me an application, and the following week I was hired.

The jobs that worth having, are the ones you have to look for. If you want any kind of decent job, you have to call up places, ask for interviews, drive to job location and introduce yourself. You have to talk to friends, relatives, co-workers, and ask around to various people, and actually engage in the process of 'looking for a job'.

People don't want to do that. So they go to places that have no standards, and require no effort to get employed, and then are shocked they can't earn $50,000 a year at such an easy job to get.

I just don't understand the mindset of people that think they should get paid more simply for doing the exact same job day after day and year after year.

Anecdotal Alert!

When my youngest daughter was 16, she got a job at a local chain restaurant that is semi-fast food (I think they call it fast-casual these days). I believe the minimum wage at the time was around $7.00/hour. She started at $8.00/hour taking orders at the cash register and waiting tables, so she got tips also. She got regular raises although they were small.

After she graduated high school, she went looking for better paying work. She got a job as a bank teller at one of the largest banks in the US. She worked hard, learned more about the banking industry and eventually got promoted to Lead Teller. She continued to work hard and learn more and eventually got a job in their auto loan processing department. She worked hard, learned more about the industry and received raises.

The problem that I saw, was that both her and her fiance worked for the same bank and they both worked in loan departments (he was in mortgage loans). Big personal financial risk to have both income earners at the same company and doing similar jobs, so I suggested to them they both look for work elsewhere and the first one to get a different job should switch jobs to reduce their overall financial risk.

My daughter got a job offer working for one of the largest life insurance companies in the US, and it came with a significant raise. She took it.

Now then, she could have continued working as a waitress making low wages and trying to demand a "living wage", but she chose to better herself through hard work and learning more so that she was more valuable to employers.

Her stats are.......
24 years old.
Female.
Zero college education.
Cushy office job.
$44,000 salary plus benefits.
Fiance makes more money than her.
Will be married June 8th.

People can sit around sniveling about things like being paid a "living wage", or they can go out and make things happen for themselves like both my daughters have done (the elder is slightly lower on the economic scale, but she's doing well for herself). I'd feel like a failure as a parent if either of my children were still working minimum wage jobs in their mid 20's or depending upon me for financial support. The opportunities are out there. Waiting for government to give one opportunity is a losing game.

You mean your daughters actually applied themselves?

 

[Andylusion]

Not in New Jersey

I realize that some states think their citizens are incompetent boobs and dont trust them to pump gas.
Not many thank God.

I've been to New Jersey. Good call on the part of the State Legislature, I'd say

Really? Why? Are you saying the people of New Jersey really are too incompetent to pump their own gas?

 

[Andylusion]

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

Service at a service station? Unheard of here. You drive up, stick your credit card in the slot and pump your gas.
If you want a soda or a pack of smokes you walk inside and hand money to someone who doesn't want to be there.
All things being equal, it's stupid to buy 24 gallons of gasoline and pay $1.44 more because someone once smiled at you.

Same goes for employees. An employee flipping burgers for $7.85/hour will not flip any more at $10.10. He's still a burger flipper, and if he's still making $7.85/hour flipping burgers at 30, it's not his employer's fault.

He can flip them more often, but they still take the same amount of time to cook through. Paying the burger flipper more will not make the burgers cook faster.
Asking, "Do you want fries with that" isn't more successful to the business simply because the person asking is being paid more.

And even if you could somehow 'will them' to cook faster, you have no control on the number of customers, or what they want. If 10 customers come in, and they all want fried chicken, you cooking burgers quicker doesn't benefit the company any more.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

Not in New Jersey

I realize that some states think their citizens are incompetent boobs and dont trust them to pump gas.
Not many thank God.

I've been to New Jersey. Good call on the part of the State Legislature, I'd say

New Jersey isn't so bad. It has... pine barrens?

 

[Politico]

What service? We pump our own gas.

Not in New Jersey

I realize that some states think their citizens are incompetent boobs and dont trust them to pump gas.
Not many thank God.

That has nothing to do with it. It is a farcical way to create fictitious jobs.

Really? Why? Are you saying the people of New Jersey really are too incompetent to pump their own gas?

Well from what I have seen...in any case again not the reason.

 

[auditor0007]

The Shocking Truth About What It Would Cost Us All If Walmart Paid A Living Wage

Watch the video.

$300,000,000 a year in food stamps just for walmart employees. Give them a living wage and we pay an extra 1.4% on their goods. One penny for every dollar spent at Walmart and those employees would not need to live on food stamps.

Has someone figured out the magic formula to define a "living" wage?

Or should each employee be paid according to how much money they need to "live?"

Let's say that if your rent costs you close to or more than half of your monthly net earnings, then you are probably not making a living wage, basing this on a person working full-time and going with the lowest reasonable amount for rent in that area.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

Service at a service station? Unheard of here. You drive up, stick your credit card in the slot and pump your gas.
If you want a soda or a pack of smokes you walk inside and hand money to someone who doesn't want to be there.
All things being equal, it's stupid to buy 24 gallons of gasoline and pay $1.44 more because someone once smiled at you.

Same goes for employees. An employee flipping burgers for $7.85/hour will not flip any more at $10.10. He's still a burger flipper, and if he's still making $7.85/hour flipping burgers at 30, it's not his employer's fault.

Then I wouldn't be going to any of those stations.
The one I go to has you greeted with people who are happy to see you.

And I think you are stupid to pay less for shit service, rather than a little more for good service. Your attitude needs to change.

What part of "we pump our own gas" dont you understand?
I would think you'd be a little more thrifty considering you're always complaining about being broke and you work in fast food.

 

[tn5421]

Is being a greeter worth $15 dollars an hour?

Would you rather have Wal-mart pay the employ $15 an hour or the tax payer pay for food stamps?

Neither to be honest. I dont want the cost passed on to me by Walmart raising prices like McDonalds is doing. I worked 2 jobs and went to school to make ends meet. Other people can do the same.

No, you'd just get hit with crushing debt if you tried that today.

Where are you getting your figures. Today's minimum wage won't even support one person at the poverty level.

40 hrs x $7.25 x 52 weeks=$15,080.

FPL 1 person=$11,670
2 person HH=$15,730
3 person HH=$19,790

(url scrubbed)

Your mistake was assuming business let their people work 40 hours a week. Most places where I live absolutely refuse to work you more than 28 hours a week at the absolute most, and its been that way for years (with 32 hours instead of 28, that was recent).

.

Since we have essentially created a large underclass through lowered standards, lowered expectations, excuses and political correctness, we probably have no choice but to increase the minimum wage. When you create such a class of people, you are responsible for it. Too late now, they're all over the place. A true national tragedy, there is no excuse for what has been done to them: (url scrubbed)Confident Idiots: American Students Growing More Confident, Less Capable[/url]

So, now, that said, I'd like to know how we're going to deal with the following. WARNING: REAL WORLD QUESTION COMING UP, NOT A THEORETICAL EXERCISE TO BE CONSIDERED ONLY BY ACADEMIC THEORISTS IN THE ADMINISTRATION:

Let's say we have a person who is currently making $8.00 an hour. We increase their hourly wage to $15.00. Great. Now they have a "living wage". What do we do for the people who are making:

• $8.50
• $8.75
• $9.00
• $9.25
• $9.50
• $9.75
• $10.00
• $10.25
• $10.50
• $10.75
• $11.00
• $11.25

... and on and on, let's say, up to $25.00 an hour?

If you're going to be "fair", everyone else's wage has to increase by that same 90%, correct? And if you're answer is "no", tell us precisely how you're going to break the news to these people, those Americans who have worked their way up, who have put out extra effort, increased their skillset on their own time. How, precisely, do you plan to break the news to these Americans that they're now down to the minimum wage with those who have put out ZERO extra effort and sacrifice?

Please explain. Oh, and while you're at it, please describe any potential negative ramifications in an intensely and increasingly competitive global business environment.

So, now that we have agreed to increase the minimum wage to a $15.00 "living wage", please continue. Since I'm sure you have thought this through, I'm sure you can knock this one out of the park. Ready, set, go!

Looking forward to it, thanks. I have a bunch of business clients who could use some of your guidance.

.

You can sit here and act smug all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a real problem. I don't think a big increase in minimum wage is the answer, though.

.

So we're pretending that someone who can only get 30 MW hours at one job can't add a job?

.

It's not 'pretending', most businesses will schedule at the most random times to make sure you can't adequately predict your schedule or make having 2 jobs work without informing them. And of course if you don't put down availability as 'any time, any day' you simply won't get interviewed unless you are overqualified.



I also find myself shocked that a large portion of the posters in this thread are passively condoning three options for the 'perpetually poor'. Those options being 'Government Assistance/Dependance' or 'Die' or 'Work up to 120 hours a week and barely survive'.

It's almost like you think poor people don't deserve the ability to survive.

When minimum wage was first introduced, it was introduced with the idea that you could support a small family on it while working 40 hours a week. (yourself, spouse, one kid)[citation needed]