This is why we need a living wage

[SAYIT]

When minimum wage was first introduced, it was introduced with the idea that you could support a small family on it while working 40 hours a week. (yourself, spouse, one kid)[citation needed]

So when making such a baseless claim simply adding [citation needed] suffices for substantiation? How about providing the citation?

 

[sameech]

Your mistake was assuming business let their people work 40 hours a week. Most places where I live absolutely refuse to work you more than 28 hours a week at the absolute most, and its been that way for years (with 32 hours instead of 28, that was recent).

28 hours puts them at $10.5K and if they are single, the EITC would push them to $11K just under the poverty line. If someone is working only 28 hours a week, they could still find just temp work to put them over the threshold or could get other jobs. It isn't like we should expect someone making MW to be able to afford a middle class lifestyle.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Not in New Jersey

I realize that some states think their citizens are incompetent boobs and dont trust them to pump gas.
Not many thank God.

That has nothing to do with it. It is a farcical way to create fictitious jobs.

Really? Why? Are you saying the people of New Jersey really are too incompetent to pump their own gas?

Well from what I have seen...in any case again not the reason.

I understand that. But do they actually say it? I wouldnt think telling people that "we only do this to create unnecessary expenses that cost you money" would go over to well.

 

[Mathbud1]

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

Service at a service station? Unheard of here. You drive up, stick your credit card in the slot and pump your gas.
If you want a soda or a pack of smokes you walk inside and hand money to someone who doesn't want to be there.
All things being equal, it's stupid to buy 24 gallons of gasoline and pay $1.44 more because someone once smiled at you.

Same goes for employees. An employee flipping burgers for $7.85/hour will not flip any more at $10.10. He's still a burger flipper, and if he's still making $7.85/hour flipping burgers at 30, it's not his employer's fault.

Then I wouldn't be going to any of those stations.
The one I go to has you greeted with people who are happy to see you.

And I think you are stupid to pay less for shit service, rather than a little more for good service. Your attitude needs to change.

You wouldn't have a choice here. There are NO gas stations in my area that actually have an attendant pump gas. You either pump it yourself or go without fuel. And why should I care if I am not being serviced at the gas station? If it cuts my cost in fuel, I'm all for pumping the gas myself. It can also be much faster if I do it myself rather than having to wait for an attendant to get to me when the station is busy. I also load my own groceries into the car even though my grocery store offers the service for free.

 

[Mathbud1]

When minimum wage was first introduced, it was introduced with the idea that you could support a small family on it while working 40 hours a week. (yourself, spouse, one kid)[citation needed]

So when making such a baseless claim simply adding [citation needed] suffices for substantiation? How about providing the citation?

Probably a copy and paste directly from Wikipedia. The "Citation Needed" flag didn't seem to give them any pause in using it though.

 

[hadit]

There are 2 gas stations across the street from each other about 2 miles from my house. One charges $3.439 for a gallon of Shell and the other charges $3.499 for a gallon of Texaco. Where would you, Sheila and Noomi, buy your gasoline? I know where I stop.

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

Perhaps things are different in your country, but here... at least in my area, there is no service.

No service at all.

I drive up to a fuel pump kiosk, that accepts a credit card.

Top left of the pump, is where you put in your credit card.

You then fuel your car yourself, and drive away.

You never see any employee of the station, unless you want to buy something from the quick-mart.

So between two gas stations, I'm going to the cheapest one.

Now in places where service matters, then I would agree. Good service is worth a few dollars for sure. If you go to a restaurant, and the service is terrible, saving a few bucks doesn't work. You are going to go to a place that has good service, or you are not going.

But even then, the price still has to be low enough to justify going. Yeah, you can pay your waiters $50,000 a year, and get great quality service. But if the price is too high, no customers are going to show up.

Then all the waiters making $50,000 are unemployed, making zero. There is a trade off, where better service at a higher cost, doesn't work.

The fallacy of the MW can be exposed by a simple experiment. If raising the MW to $10/hour is a good thing, why not just raise it to $50/hour and eliminate poverty altogether? I'll let the MW activists attempt to answer that one.

 

[beagle9]

Service at a service station? Unheard of here. You drive up, stick your credit card in the slot and pump your gas.
If you want a soda or a pack of smokes you walk inside and hand money to someone who doesn't want to be there.
All things being equal, it's stupid to buy 24 gallons of gasoline and pay $1.44 more because someone once smiled at you.

Same goes for employees. An employee flipping burgers for $7.85/hour will not flip any more at $10.10. He's still a burger flipper, and if he's still making $7.85/hour flipping burgers at 30, it's not his employer's fault.

Then I wouldn't be going to any of those stations.
The one I go to has you greeted with people who are happy to see you.

And I think you are stupid to pay less for shit service, rather than a little more for good service. Your attitude needs to change.

You wouldn't have a choice here. There are NO gas stations in my area that actually have an attendant pump gas. You either pump it yourself or go without fuel. And why should I care if I am not being serviced at the gas station? If it cuts my cost in fuel, I'm all for pumping the gas myself. It can also be much faster if I do it myself rather than having to wait for an attendant to get to me when the station is busy. I also load my own groceries into the car even though my grocery store offers the service for free.

Your fallacy is that it's somehow cutting your cost, when really it's only saving those stations the added expenses of providing the luxury service that is usually offered to you as a bonus when doing business there, but because you do it yourself for them instead, I ask who is looking at who as the fool ? How do you like working for free, and still paying high prices ?

 

[alan1]

Then I wouldn't be going to any of those stations.
The one I go to has you greeted with people who are happy to see you.

And I think you are stupid to pay less for shit service, rather than a little more for good service. Your attitude needs to change.

You wouldn't have a choice here. There are NO gas stations in my area that actually have an attendant pump gas. You either pump it yourself or go without fuel. And why should I care if I am not being serviced at the gas station? If it cuts my cost in fuel, I'm all for pumping the gas myself. It can also be much faster if I do it myself rather than having to wait for an attendant to get to me when the station is busy. I also load my own groceries into the car even though my grocery store offers the service for free.

Your fallacy is that it's somehow cutting your cost, when really it's only saving those stations the added expenses of providing the luxury service that is usually offered to you as a bonus when doing business there, but because you do it yourself for them instead, I ask who is looking at who as the fool ? How do you like working for free, and still paying high prices ?

Actually, what happened was that OPEC formed, and the price of gas started rising pretty quickly in the 1970's. Service stations started offering the option of self-service or full-service. Full-service usually ran 7-10 cents a gallon more than self-service (which coincidentally was also about 7-10%). It didn't take long for most people to start switching to self-service. Less people using full-service also resulted in less people working at service stations. And guess who the people were that got fired? It was the 15-20 year old unskilled young people that pumped gas and in between customers, they were learning a trade called auto mechanics. Being an auto mechanic at a mom and pop service station used to pay a pretty decent wage (much more than minimum wage). Eventually, in most states, the 'Service Station" disappeared and was replaced by self-service with a convenience store attached.

Now, to be perfectly realistic, I'm not sure the whole pump gas and learn how to be a mechanic would work in this day and age. Automobiles have become much more complex than they were 20+ years ago. I doubt a person could learn good automotive mechanics simply from on the job training these days. But 20, 30, 40 years ago, they could build a decent paying career with that as their start.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

There is barely a difference, and I would go to the servo in which I get the better service.

FYI, I only go to a local chain for my petrol. They can charge up to three to four cents more per litre, but I don't mind. Why? Because they know me and I have always gotten good service - and sometimes, service is more important than saving a few dollars.

Perhaps things are different in your country, but here... at least in my area, there is no service.

No service at all.

I drive up to a fuel pump kiosk, that accepts a credit card.

Top left of the pump, is where you put in your credit card.

You then fuel your car yourself, and drive away.

You never see any employee of the station, unless you want to buy something from the quick-mart.

So between two gas stations, I'm going to the cheapest one.

Now in places where service matters, then I would agree. Good service is worth a few dollars for sure. If you go to a restaurant, and the service is terrible, saving a few bucks doesn't work. You are going to go to a place that has good service, or you are not going.

But even then, the price still has to be low enough to justify going. Yeah, you can pay your waiters $50,000 a year, and get great quality service. But if the price is too high, no customers are going to show up.

Then all the waiters making $50,000 are unemployed, making zero. There is a trade off, where better service at a higher cost, doesn't work.

The fallacy of the MW can be exposed by a simple experiment. If raising the MW to $10/hour is a good thing, why not just raise it to $50/hour and eliminate poverty altogether? I'll let the MW activists attempt to answer that one.

Good luck.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

The fallacy of the MW can be exposed by a simple experiment. If raising the MW to $10/hour is a good thing, why not just raise it to $50/hour and eliminate poverty altogether? I'll let the MW activists attempt to answer that one.

You assume all those who support raising the minimum wage think doing so will eliminate poverty.
Some of us are simply realistic.
Some of us understand the terms money wage, real wage and inflation. Do you?

 

[Ernie S.]

Service at a service station? Unheard of here. You drive up, stick your credit card in the slot and pump your gas.
If you want a soda or a pack of smokes you walk inside and hand money to someone who doesn't want to be there.
All things being equal, it's stupid to buy 24 gallons of gasoline and pay $1.44 more because someone once smiled at you.

Same goes for employees. An employee flipping burgers for $7.85/hour will not flip any more at $10.10. He's still a burger flipper, and if he's still making $7.85/hour flipping burgers at 30, it's not his employer's fault.

Then I wouldn't be going to any of those stations.
The one I go to has you greeted with people who are happy to see you.

And I think you are stupid to pay less for shit service, rather than a little more for good service. Your attitude needs to change.

You wouldn't have a choice here. There are NO gas stations in my area that actually have an attendant pump gas. You either pump it yourself or go without fuel. And why should I care if I am not being serviced at the gas station? If it cuts my cost in fuel, I'm all for pumping the gas myself. It can also be much faster if I do it myself rather than having to wait for an attendant to get to me when the station is busy. I also load my own groceries into the car even though my grocery store offers the service for free.

Did she delete her post? I went back to reply when I saw it quoted in your post, but Poof! Noomi. Us rednecks in Alabama are smart enough to pump our own gas without setting shit on fire. I can't help it if you people down under can't figure it out.
There are buttons on gas pumps here to push if you're handicapped. I suppose an attendant will eventually come to help you, but at night, there is usually only one person on duty so they will have to wait until the store is empty before they can pump your gas.

 

[Ernie S.]

Then I wouldn't be going to any of those stations.
The one I go to has you greeted with people who are happy to see you.

And I think you are stupid to pay less for shit service, rather than a little more for good service. Your attitude needs to change.

You wouldn't have a choice here. There are NO gas stations in my area that actually have an attendant pump gas. You either pump it yourself or go without fuel. And why should I care if I am not being serviced at the gas station? If it cuts my cost in fuel, I'm all for pumping the gas myself. It can also be much faster if I do it myself rather than having to wait for an attendant to get to me when the station is busy. I also load my own groceries into the car even though my grocery store offers the service for free.

Your fallacy is that it's somehow cutting your cost, when really it's only saving those stations the added expenses of providing the luxury service that is usually offered to you as a bonus when doing business there, but because you do it yourself for them instead, I ask who is looking at who as the fool ? How do you like working for free, and still paying high prices ?

Do you understand the concept of overhead? Stations where you pump your own gas do not have to pay 3 or 4 people to stand behind your car and manage a hose while you text your boy/girl friend.
Newark, New Jersey where customers are too dumb to pump gas averages about $3.50/gallon. Mobile, AL where we've mastered the art, $3.30.

 

[Politico]

When minimum wage was first introduced, it was introduced with the idea that you could support a small family on it while working 40 hours a week. (yourself, spouse, one kid)[citation needed]

So when making such a baseless claim simply adding [citation needed] suffices for substantiation? How about providing the citation?

Baseless? How about you quit the silliness and look up what the guy who thought the whole thing up said?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Then I wouldn't be going to any of those stations.
The one I go to has you greeted with people who are happy to see you.

And I think you are stupid to pay less for shit service, rather than a little more for good service. Your attitude needs to change.

You wouldn't have a choice here. There are NO gas stations in my area that actually have an attendant pump gas. You either pump it yourself or go without fuel. And why should I care if I am not being serviced at the gas station? If it cuts my cost in fuel, I'm all for pumping the gas myself. It can also be much faster if I do it myself rather than having to wait for an attendant to get to me when the station is busy. I also load my own groceries into the car even though my grocery store offers the service for free.

Your fallacy is that it's somehow cutting your cost, when really it's only saving those stations the added expenses of providing the luxury service that is usually offered to you as a bonus when doing business there, but because you do it yourself for them instead, I ask who is looking at who as the fool ? How do you like working for free, and still paying high prices ?

Are you trying to make pumping gas sound arduous. Really? And if you dont think prices wouldnt go up if they added another employee or two you're nuts. Whether you payed at the pump or at the slushy machine you'd be paying more.

 

[beagle9]

You wouldn't have a choice here. There are NO gas stations in my area that actually have an attendant pump gas. You either pump it yourself or go without fuel. And why should I care if I am not being serviced at the gas station? If it cuts my cost in fuel, I'm all for pumping the gas myself. It can also be much faster if I do it myself rather than having to wait for an attendant to get to me when the station is busy. I also load my own groceries into the car even though my grocery store offers the service for free.

Your fallacy is that it's somehow cutting your cost, when really it's only saving those stations the added expenses of providing the luxury service that is usually offered to you as a bonus when doing business there, but because you do it yourself for them instead, I ask who is looking at who as the fool ? How do you like working for free, and still paying high prices ?

Actually, what happened was that OPEC formed, and the price of gas started rising pretty quickly in the 1970's. Service stations started offering the option of self-service or full-service. Full-service usually ran 7-10 cents a gallon more than self-service (which coincidentally was also about 7-10%). It didn't take long for most people to start switching to self-service. Less people using full-service also resulted in less people working at service stations. And guess who the people were that got fired? It was the 15-20 year old unskilled young people that pumped gas and in between customers, they were learning a trade called auto mechanics. Being an auto mechanic at a mom and pop service station used to pay a pretty decent wage (much more than minimum wage). Eventually, in most states, the 'Service Station" disappeared and was replaced by self-service with a convenience store attached.

Now, to be perfectly realistic, I'm not sure the whole pump gas and learn how to be a mechanic would work in this day and age. Automobiles have become much more complex than they were 20+ years ago. I doubt a person could learn good automotive mechanics simply from on the job training these days. But 20, 30, 40 years ago, they could build a decent paying career with that as their start.

Peoples ability to reason and learn has developed greatly over the years, and that is the very reason things have become as complex as they are today, especially when they are given the chance, and so I will still believe that the things that people assume people can't do anymore is just wrong today. Kids are in rebellion these days because they don't have the opportunities of the past offered them no more, and it's not because they aren't smart enough, but it's more so that greed has replaced the things in which we all held dear in the learning processes of life, therefore leaving them to wither on the vine, and then to simply die. They are supposed to be the potential replacements for the old who will need them someday in order to retire, but yet they can't find themselves anymore because of it all........ Shameful....

 

[Noomi]

I never said we had people who actually pump the gas for you. We have people behind the counter that take your money for your petrol - but a lot of people would almost certainly pay extra for someone to pump the gas. I remember those days, and miss them.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I never said we had people who actually pump the gas for you. We have people behind the counter that take your money for your petrol - but a lot of people would almost certainly pay extra for someone to pump the gas. I remember those days, and miss them.

We have these things called credit cards. They give them to the financially mature in America,maybe you've heard of them.
They're little flat rectangle things you stick in the gas pump so you dont have to go inside. They're really handy.

They also allow you to get gas even when the store is closed!! Pretty amazing huh?
The wonders of modern tech.....

 

[Mathbud1]

I never said we had people who actually pump the gas for you. We have people behind the counter that take your money for your petrol - but a lot of people would almost certainly pay extra for someone to pump the gas. I remember those days, and miss them.

You can walk inside to pay if you really want to. Sometimes it's nice if you want to pick up an overpriced snack. I prefer to get out of there much quicker than that though.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Uncensored2008]

The fallacy of the MW can be exposed by a simple experiment. If raising the MW to $10/hour is a good thing, why not just raise it to $50/hour and eliminate poverty altogether? I'll let the MW activists attempt to answer that one.

You assume all those who support raising the minimum wage think doing so will eliminate poverty.
Some of us are simply realistic.
Some of us understand the terms money wage, real wage and inflation. Do you?

So your goal isn't to improve the lives of the low end workers, but rather to eliminate their jobs and force them on to welfare?

 

[Ernie S.]

So, you will pay 3 or 4 cents more/liter of gasoline because the guy inside smiled at you. OK if attention is that important to you, I guess you can shop where ever you want.
I have a pretty bar maid with really big hooters, but I don't charge more for a beer when she's on duty.