This will be controversial

[Darkwind]

Reality is sometimes ugly, but it’s better to know the truth and respond to it one way or the other, rather than perpetually live in dream world.
GRAPHIC VIDEO

Is there some brutality? Of course. However, I think you owe us an explanation of the video.

IT is clearly spliced to show the most horrific parts of animal slaughter. So, how old are most of those splices?

Have you been to a modern slaughterhouse? Things are done much more humanely in MOST places -- not all -- however, the fact that some people/companies are a bit barbaric in their manner of slaughter is no reason for Me, or any other omnivore, to stop eating.

Both My wife and middle daughter are vegan. They share recipes among themselves and search out vender that cater to the vegan lifestyle. They are not militant about it, Nor do they condemn those who are not vegan.

I, on the other hand, take a different approach to diet.

Of the three macronutrients, only two are essential to life.

Protein and Fat.

Carbohydrates are NOT essential to life. In fact, the human body can live a great deal longer and healthier on a no carb diet than they can on one loaded with useless carbs.

I get it that you don't like killing. Most people don't. Do NOT expect that your lifestyle choice is the right one for anyone but yourself.

It sounds like you’re a keto person, or paleo? I couldn’t disagree with you more. There may be short term advantages to keto, but in the long run it is terrible for the body, and dangerous. Of course fat is necessary, and I eat a lot of things like avocado, nuts, etc that add healthy fats to my diet. But eating things like bacon, fatty meat, etc has been proven to increase your risk for a heart attack and other health problems. I can’t stick around here much longer right now, but later when I have time I’ll get back to this and maybe post the words of doctors.

I get that people don’t want to give up meat. I really do. But I think it’s sad the lengths some people go to, to continue what they want to do. They always will point to certain studies, but what they don’t realize or want to acknowledge is that those studies are always funded by very industries who are trying to sell those products.

There is a lot of money in keeping people eating animal products. Not only for the meat and dairy industries, but for big pharma which is the next stop on the ugly cycle, when people end up with clogged arteries, diabetes, cancer, etc.

In fact, when you switch to a keto burning metabolism vs a glucose burning metabolism, the health benefits are immense. Not only does your brain work better on a low carb diet, but the rest of your body also responds as well. The visceral fat that surrounds your internal organs is lowered reducing stress on those vital organs necessary for metabolism.

Your body burns fat for fuel, which equates to more energy for your activities. Protein and Carbohydrates have only 4 calories per gram of energy to give up whereas fat has 9 calories per gram.

There are benefits to lowering glycogen in the body by reducing inflammation associated with sugars and carbs.

Your body processes water and fat-soluble vitamins and minerals which makes these nutrients necessary, along with protein to build muscle. The carbohydrate is unnecessary..

Best of all, studies show that if you are pre-diabetic or if you are full-blown type II, a low carb diet lowers the insulin stress on your body by lowering insulin levels to baseline and even lower, keeping your blood chemistry more in line with the standard for good health.

Plus, if you are overweight or obese, you will lose significant pounds.

The truth and medical research are pretty profound. The only carbs that are needed are gleaned from leafy -- Cruciferous-- vegetables and these are necessary for their fiber benefit.

As for justifying doing what we want to do, I have found that to be the case regardless of the topic, and those who defend vegan or vegetarian lifestyles are no different.

 

[Correll]

1. I did not rephrase your words. I cut and pasted them.

2. I think the vast majority of Americans, animal lovers or not, would if it was their job, would be quite able to look an animal in the eye, and then slaughter the animal, however it is done, in order to feed people.

YOu know, since humans have been doing that since there WERE humans.

I think you’re underestimating how much people love animals. What you said doesn’t make much sense because most people wouldn’t take the job in the slaughterhouse in the first place. It is a known fact that people who work in slaughterhouses often end up with PTSD or other emotional problems. Which says a lot in and of itself. Just because some of you guys couldn’t care less doesn’t mean everyone else is like that.

For the vast majority of human history, and prehistory, humans hunted or raised animals, and then killed and ate them.

Animal loving, did not slow that down.

We’re living in a different world now. Most people do not kill animals for survival. Some might think they are, but as those quotes I posted earlier show, from a health standpoint, it is completely unnecessary. It’s done because of habit/ tradition/ taste.

Factory farms are filling up entire lagoons with animal waste (actual shit), contaminating groundwater, polluting rivers, polluting the air, causing people living nearby to be sick. An outrageous amount of rainforests are being destroyed continually, to make room for animal agriculture. Outrageous amounts of resources are being completely wasted, because of animal agriculture. It’s killing people and it’s killing the planet. I completely understand your position. I was there myself. But mark my words… The world is changing. A plant based diet is the future. Not only from a secular standpoint, as people are going vegan in droves, but also from a biblical standpoint.

Dude. You made a point, I responded to that point, and you just moved on to your next point


That is what a person does when, on some level, they know the shit they are spouting is shit.

YOu made the point about people being "animal lovers", and I crushed it.

You haven’t crushed anything and I’m amazed that you’re choosing to still be needlessly argumentative instead of having an actual discussion.

No, you deceptively reframed my point. I never, ever ever claimed that ANYTIME someone doesn’t want to look at something, they shouldn’t support that thing. That was what YOU tried to make my argument into. You took my very specific point about what goes on in the animal industries and then went and looked for other things to compare it to, in order to put forth your strawman argument. I told you that repeatedly, but since you refused to concede, I simply moved the discussion forward. Because maybe you think playing word games is more important than having an actual exchange of ideas, but I don’t have time for word games and dishonest debating.

As for people being animal lovers, neither of us can claim to know what is in the mind/heart of every single person out there. But based on the people I know and everything I have seen, I have no doubt that if people had to actually kill the cow or pig with their own hands, seeing the fear and terror in the animal’s eyes, hearing the screams and watching it desperately struggle for its life as his throat is slit, a hell of a lot more people would be vegetarian. You’re free to disagree with that.

Time will tell, because that is one of the biggest reasons people go vegan. Because they realize that they could never kill the animal themselves in good conscience, when it’s completely unnecessary, so it’s hypocritical to pay someone else to do it for them daily. As more people go vegan, you will see.

It is not hypocritical to pay some one to do something you don't want, or can't do.


hy·poc·ri·sy
/həˈpäkrəsē/
noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

IF someone had a moral standard that they should be able to do anything they ask someone else to do, and they could not kill and butcher an animal, that would be hypocritical.


But if someone has the moral standard that killing and eating animals is ok, and they are just to sensitive to do it themselves, that is not hypocritical, it is just squeamish.


Now, if that person were to look down on people who worked on ranches, raising and slaughtering animals for them to eat, THAT would be hypocritical of them.



But what you describe, is not.



YOu have made an arbitrary moral judgement, and are acting like anyone that does not agree with you, is morally wrong.


That is nonsense on your part.


And I am being very, very gentle with you on that moral judgement.

 

[buttercup]

I think you’re underestimating how much people love animals. What you said doesn’t make much sense because most people wouldn’t take the job in the slaughterhouse in the first place. It is a known fact that people who work in slaughterhouses often end up with PTSD or other emotional problems. Which says a lot in and of itself. Just because some of you guys couldn’t care less doesn’t mean everyone else is like that.

For the vast majority of human history, and prehistory, humans hunted or raised animals, and then killed and ate them.

Animal loving, did not slow that down.

We’re living in a different world now. Most people do not kill animals for survival. Some might think they are, but as those quotes I posted earlier show, from a health standpoint, it is completely unnecessary. It’s done because of habit/ tradition/ taste.

Factory farms are filling up entire lagoons with animal waste (actual shit), contaminating groundwater, polluting rivers, polluting the air, causing people living nearby to be sick. An outrageous amount of rainforests are being destroyed continually, to make room for animal agriculture. Outrageous amounts of resources are being completely wasted, because of animal agriculture. It’s killing people and it’s killing the planet. I completely understand your position. I was there myself. But mark my words… The world is changing. A plant based diet is the future. Not only from a secular standpoint, as people are going vegan in droves, but also from a biblical standpoint.

Dude. You made a point, I responded to that point, and you just moved on to your next point


That is what a person does when, on some level, they know the shit they are spouting is shit.

YOu made the point about people being "animal lovers", and I crushed it.

You haven’t crushed anything and I’m amazed that you’re choosing to still be needlessly argumentative instead of having an actual discussion.

No, you deceptively reframed my point. I never, ever ever claimed that ANYTIME someone doesn’t want to look at something, they shouldn’t support that thing. That was what YOU tried to make my argument into. You took my very specific point about what goes on in the animal industries and then went and looked for other things to compare it to, in order to put forth your strawman argument. I told you that repeatedly, but since you refused to concede, I simply moved the discussion forward. Because maybe you think playing word games is more important than having an actual exchange of ideas, but I don’t have time for word games and dishonest debating.

As for people being animal lovers, neither of us can claim to know what is in the mind/heart of every single person out there. But based on the people I know and everything I have seen, I have no doubt that if people had to actually kill the cow or pig with their own hands, seeing the fear and terror in the animal’s eyes, hearing the screams and watching it desperately struggle for its life as his throat is slit, a hell of a lot more people would be vegetarian. You’re free to disagree with that.

Time will tell, because that is one of the biggest reasons people go vegan. Because they realize that they could never kill the animal themselves in good conscience, when it’s completely unnecessary, so it’s hypocritical to pay someone else to do it for them daily. As more people go vegan, you will see.

It is not hypocritical to pay some one to do something you don't want, or can't do.


hy·poc·ri·sy
/həˈpäkrəsē/
noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

IF someone had a moral standard that they should be able to do anything they ask someone else to do, and they could not kill and butcher an animal, that would be hypocritical.


But if someone has the moral standard that killing and eating animals is ok, and they are just to sensitive to do it themselves, that is not hypocritical, it is just squeamish.


Now, if that person were to look down on people who worked on ranches, raising and slaughtering animals for them to eat, THAT would be hypocritical of them.



But what you describe, is not.



YOu have made an arbitrary moral judgement, and are acting like anyone that does not agree with you, is morally wrong.


That is nonsense on your part.


And I am being very, very gentle with you on that moral judgement.

OK, we are on two different pages here. You’re talking about someone being squeamish, that’s not what I’ve been talking about. I was talking about a person not being able to kill – not because that person doesn’t like the sight of blood, but because that person loves animals and would realize in that moment that causing the animal to go through terror, pain, and death, taking the one thing that’s most important to any sentient being, life itself, simply for the momentary satisfaction of eating a piece of meat, isn’t worth it and would feel wrong, for THEM. THAT is what I was talking about when I mentioned earlier that when a person like that pays someone else 3 times a day to do what they couldn’t do, their values are not in line with their actions.

And to be clear, I am not judging that type of person, because I was there myself a few years ago, all vegans were, and because as I said earlier, most of those types of people don’t realize that their values aren’t aligned with their actions, because most people who love animals yet eat a standard American diet don’t realize what exactly goes on in the animal industries, as well as the environmental impact, the health aspect, etc. Many people are blissfully unaware. Those are the people who I’ve been trying to reach, and it’s the reason I started a blog /YouTube channel called Live Mercifully.

 

[buttercup]

Reality is sometimes ugly, but it’s better to know the truth and respond to it one way or the other, rather than perpetually live in dream world.
GRAPHIC VIDEO

Is there some brutality? Of course. However, I think you owe us an explanation of the video.

IT is clearly spliced to show the most horrific parts of animal slaughter. So, how old are most of those splices?

Have you been to a modern slaughterhouse? Things are done much more humanely in MOST places -- not all -- however, the fact that some people/companies are a bit barbaric in their manner of slaughter is no reason for Me, or any other omnivore, to stop eating.

Both My wife and middle daughter are vegan. They share recipes among themselves and search out vender that cater to the vegan lifestyle. They are not militant about it, Nor do they condemn those who are not vegan.

I, on the other hand, take a different approach to diet.

Of the three macronutrients, only two are essential to life.

Protein and Fat.

Carbohydrates are NOT essential to life. In fact, the human body can live a great deal longer and healthier on a no carb diet than they can on one loaded with useless carbs.

I get it that you don't like killing. Most people don't. Do NOT expect that your lifestyle choice is the right one for anyone but yourself.

It sounds like you’re a keto person, or paleo? I couldn’t disagree with you more. There may be short term advantages to keto, but in the long run it is terrible for the body, and dangerous. Of course fat is necessary, and I eat a lot of things like avocado, nuts, etc that add healthy fats to my diet. But eating things like bacon, fatty meat, etc has been proven to increase your risk for a heart attack and other health problems. I can’t stick around here much longer right now, but later when I have time I’ll get back to this and maybe post the words of doctors.

I get that people don’t want to give up meat. I really do. But I think it’s sad the lengths some people go to, to continue what they want to do. They always will point to certain studies, but what they don’t realize or want to acknowledge is that those studies are always funded by very industries who are trying to sell those products.

There is a lot of money in keeping people eating animal products. Not only for the meat and dairy industries, but for big pharma which is the next stop on the ugly cycle, when people end up with clogged arteries, diabetes, cancer, etc.

In fact, when you switch to a keto burning metabolism vs a glucose burning metabolism, the health benefits are immense. Not only does your brain work better on a low carb diet, but the rest of your body also responds as well. The visceral fat that surrounds your internal organs is lowered reducing stress on those vital organs necessary for metabolism.

Your body burns fat for fuel, which equates to more energy for your activities. Protein and Carbohydrates have only 4 calories per gram of energy to give up whereas fat has 9 calories per gram.

There are benefits to lowering glycogen in the body by reducing inflammation associated with sugars and carbs.

Your body processes water and fat-soluble vitamins and minerals which makes these nutrients necessary, along with protein to build muscle. The carbohydrate is unnecessary..

Best of all, studies show that if you are pre-diabetic or if you are full-blown type II, a low carb diet lowers the insulin stress on your body by lowering insulin levels to baseline and even lower, keeping your blood chemistry more in line with the standard for good health.

Plus, if you are overweight or obese, you will lose significant pounds.

The truth and medical research are pretty profound. The only carbs that are needed are gleaned from leafy -- Cruciferous-- vegetables and these are necessary for their fiber benefit.

As for justifying doing what we want to do, I have found that to be the case regardless of the topic, and those who defend vegan or vegetarian lifestyles are no different.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. I could post articles or videos from doctors refuting what you’re saying, but you will probably just dismiss it, as it seems your mind is made up.

I do have to say though, getting back to something you said earlier… There is no such thing as humane slaughter. It’s an oxymoron. The word humane basically means compassion, and there’s nothing humane or compassionate about slitting the throat of an animal who desperately wants to live and enjoy life just as much as you and I do. Nothing humane happens in a slaughterhouse.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Probably off-topic, your post reminded me of it. It's a good video, though.

Great video. I couldn't stop watching it.

 

[Correll]

For the vast majority of human history, and prehistory, humans hunted or raised animals, and then killed and ate them.

Animal loving, did not slow that down.

We’re living in a different world now. Most people do not kill animals for survival. Some might think they are, but as those quotes I posted earlier show, from a health standpoint, it is completely unnecessary. It’s done because of habit/ tradition/ taste.

Factory farms are filling up entire lagoons with animal waste (actual shit), contaminating groundwater, polluting rivers, polluting the air, causing people living nearby to be sick. An outrageous amount of rainforests are being destroyed continually, to make room for animal agriculture. Outrageous amounts of resources are being completely wasted, because of animal agriculture. It’s killing people and it’s killing the planet. I completely understand your position. I was there myself. But mark my words… The world is changing. A plant based diet is the future. Not only from a secular standpoint, as people are going vegan in droves, but also from a biblical standpoint.

Dude. You made a point, I responded to that point, and you just moved on to your next point


That is what a person does when, on some level, they know the shit they are spouting is shit.

YOu made the point about people being "animal lovers", and I crushed it.

You haven’t crushed anything and I’m amazed that you’re choosing to still be needlessly argumentative instead of having an actual discussion.

No, you deceptively reframed my point. I never, ever ever claimed that ANYTIME someone doesn’t want to look at something, they shouldn’t support that thing. That was what YOU tried to make my argument into. You took my very specific point about what goes on in the animal industries and then went and looked for other things to compare it to, in order to put forth your strawman argument. I told you that repeatedly, but since you refused to concede, I simply moved the discussion forward. Because maybe you think playing word games is more important than having an actual exchange of ideas, but I don’t have time for word games and dishonest debating.

As for people being animal lovers, neither of us can claim to know what is in the mind/heart of every single person out there. But based on the people I know and everything I have seen, I have no doubt that if people had to actually kill the cow or pig with their own hands, seeing the fear and terror in the animal’s eyes, hearing the screams and watching it desperately struggle for its life as his throat is slit, a hell of a lot more people would be vegetarian. You’re free to disagree with that.

Time will tell, because that is one of the biggest reasons people go vegan. Because they realize that they could never kill the animal themselves in good conscience, when it’s completely unnecessary, so it’s hypocritical to pay someone else to do it for them daily. As more people go vegan, you will see.

It is not hypocritical to pay some one to do something you don't want, or can't do.


hy·poc·ri·sy
/həˈpäkrəsē/
noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

IF someone had a moral standard that they should be able to do anything they ask someone else to do, and they could not kill and butcher an animal, that would be hypocritical.


But if someone has the moral standard that killing and eating animals is ok, and they are just to sensitive to do it themselves, that is not hypocritical, it is just squeamish.


Now, if that person were to look down on people who worked on ranches, raising and slaughtering animals for them to eat, THAT would be hypocritical of them.



But what you describe, is not.



YOu have made an arbitrary moral judgement, and are acting like anyone that does not agree with you, is morally wrong.


That is nonsense on your part.


And I am being very, very gentle with you on that moral judgement.

OK, we are on two different pages here. You’re talking about someone being squeamish, that’s not what I’ve been talking about. I was talking about a person not being able to kill – not because that person doesn’t like the sight of blood, but because that person loves animals and would realize in that moment that causing the animal to go through terror, pain, and death, taking the one thing that’s most important to any sentient being, life itself, simply for the momentary satisfaction of eating a piece of meat, isn’t worth it and would feel wrong, for THEM. THAT is what I was talking about when I mentioned earlier that when a person like that pays someone else 3 times a day to do what they couldn’t do, their values are not in line with their actions.

And to be clear, I am not judging that type of person, because I was there myself a few years ago, all vegans were, and because as I said earlier, most of those types of people don’t realize that their values aren’t aligned with their actions, because most people who love animals yet eat a standard American diet don’t realize what exactly goes on in the animal industries, as well as the environmental impact, the health aspect, etc. Many people are blissfully unaware. Those are the people who I’ve been trying to reach, and it’s the reason I started a blog /YouTube channel called Live Mercifully.

No one loves "animals", any more than one loves "people".


We love some people. We might love, or like some animals.


I like my cat. My cat, i hope, likes me. My cat has killed, uncounted mice, birds and even two rabbits. The fact that the cat killed some animals, does not mean that it does not love or like other animals, such as the humans in the house.


I like my cat. ON the other hand, I have raised many, and in one instance helped kill, animals and ate it/them.


The two processes have nothing to do with each other.


YOu are unable to understand that most people are diffferent than you, and have no problem with behavior that you are railing against.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I like my cat. My cat, i hope, likes me. My cat has killed, uncounted mice, birds and even two rabbits. The fact that the cat killed some animals, does not mean that it does not love or like other animals, such as the humans in the house.

If you die alone, and your cats are still alive and in the house, they WILL eat your face.

 

[Darkwind]

Reality is sometimes ugly, but it’s better to know the truth and respond to it one way or the other, rather than perpetually live in dream world.
GRAPHIC VIDEO

Is there some brutality? Of course. However, I think you owe us an explanation of the video.

IT is clearly spliced to show the most horrific parts of animal slaughter. So, how old are most of those splices?

Have you been to a modern slaughterhouse? Things are done much more humanely in MOST places -- not all -- however, the fact that some people/companies are a bit barbaric in their manner of slaughter is no reason for Me, or any other omnivore, to stop eating.

Both My wife and middle daughter are vegan. They share recipes among themselves and search out vender that cater to the vegan lifestyle. They are not militant about it, Nor do they condemn those who are not vegan.

I, on the other hand, take a different approach to diet.

Of the three macronutrients, only two are essential to life.

Protein and Fat.

Carbohydrates are NOT essential to life. In fact, the human body can live a great deal longer and healthier on a no carb diet than they can on one loaded with useless carbs.

I get it that you don't like killing. Most people don't. Do NOT expect that your lifestyle choice is the right one for anyone but yourself.

It sounds like you’re a keto person, or paleo? I couldn’t disagree with you more. There may be short term advantages to keto, but in the long run it is terrible for the body, and dangerous. Of course fat is necessary, and I eat a lot of things like avocado, nuts, etc that add healthy fats to my diet. But eating things like bacon, fatty meat, etc has been proven to increase your risk for a heart attack and other health problems. I can’t stick around here much longer right now, but later when I have time I’ll get back to this and maybe post the words of doctors.

I get that people don’t want to give up meat. I really do. But I think it’s sad the lengths some people go to, to continue what they want to do. They always will point to certain studies, but what they don’t realize or want to acknowledge is that those studies are always funded by very industries who are trying to sell those products.

There is a lot of money in keeping people eating animal products. Not only for the meat and dairy industries, but for big pharma which is the next stop on the ugly cycle, when people end up with clogged arteries, diabetes, cancer, etc.

In fact, when you switch to a keto burning metabolism vs a glucose burning metabolism, the health benefits are immense. Not only does your brain work better on a low carb diet, but the rest of your body also responds as well. The visceral fat that surrounds your internal organs is lowered reducing stress on those vital organs necessary for metabolism.

Your body burns fat for fuel, which equates to more energy for your activities. Protein and Carbohydrates have only 4 calories per gram of energy to give up whereas fat has 9 calories per gram.

There are benefits to lowering glycogen in the body by reducing inflammation associated with sugars and carbs.

Your body processes water and fat-soluble vitamins and minerals which makes these nutrients necessary, along with protein to build muscle. The carbohydrate is unnecessary..

Best of all, studies show that if you are pre-diabetic or if you are full-blown type II, a low carb diet lowers the insulin stress on your body by lowering insulin levels to baseline and even lower, keeping your blood chemistry more in line with the standard for good health.

Plus, if you are overweight or obese, you will lose significant pounds.

The truth and medical research are pretty profound. The only carbs that are needed are gleaned from leafy -- Cruciferous-- vegetables and these are necessary for their fiber benefit.

As for justifying doing what we want to do, I have found that to be the case regardless of the topic, and those who defend vegan or vegetarian lifestyles are no different.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. I could post articles or videos from doctors refuting what you’re saying, but you will probably just dismiss it, as it seems your mind is made up.

I do have to say though, getting back to something you said earlier… There is no such thing as humane slaughter. It’s an oxymoron. The word humane basically means compassion, and there’s nothing humane or compassionate about slitting the throat of an animal who desperately wants to live and enjoy life just as much as you and I do. Nothing humane happens in a slaughterhouse.

When speaking of humane, we have to consider that what we mean is as painless as possible. An animal that is dying of cancer ALSO wants to live, but we as quickly and painlessly as possible, end their suffering. In the case of this discussion, we are not putting an animal out of its misery, but the term humane is applicable.

I realize you have articles and videos to support your point. I'm not going to go look, but I seem to recall you rejecting others who made claims and did so on the argument that they are part of the industry and therefore cannot be trusted.

How do you reconcile the fact that any information you provide would be of the same species of interest?

All I can do is provide you with information that refutes the 100's of billions of dollars industry that is hell-bent on keeping us eating in a manner that aids their bottom line.

Highly processed foods that are almost pure carbohydrates with little nutritional benefit -- the essentials have to be added back in after processing -- are part of an industry that has everyone snookered. Truthfully, even the US government is beginning to come around to realize that their recommended eating habits are not as well understood as they previously claimed. For instance, the entire 'low fat' fad of the past 40 years, it turns out, plays a significant role in the increase in diabetes as well as the outbreak of food allergies.

BTW. You never did get back to Me with the history of that video and how old the clips showcased are. A video with the express purpose of showing the absolute worst of an industry is called, "Propaganda".

Yes, we will have to agree to disagree. I won't attack you or any vegan for their lifestyle choice as long as they don't attack Me.

 

[Darkwind]

We’re living in a different world now. Most people do not kill animals for survival. Some might think they are, but as those quotes I posted earlier show, from a health standpoint, it is completely unnecessary. It’s done because of habit/ tradition/ taste.

Factory farms are filling up entire lagoons with animal waste (actual shit), contaminating groundwater, polluting rivers, polluting the air, causing people living nearby to be sick. An outrageous amount of rainforests are being destroyed continually, to make room for animal agriculture. Outrageous amounts of resources are being completely wasted, because of animal agriculture. It’s killing people and it’s killing the planet. I completely understand your position. I was there myself. But mark my words… The world is changing. A plant based diet is the future. Not only from a secular standpoint, as people are going vegan in droves, but also from a biblical standpoint.

Dude. You made a point, I responded to that point, and you just moved on to your next point


That is what a person does when, on some level, they know the shit they are spouting is shit.

YOu made the point about people being "animal lovers", and I crushed it.

You haven’t crushed anything and I’m amazed that you’re choosing to still be needlessly argumentative instead of having an actual discussion.

No, you deceptively reframed my point. I never, ever ever claimed that ANYTIME someone doesn’t want to look at something, they shouldn’t support that thing. That was what YOU tried to make my argument into. You took my very specific point about what goes on in the animal industries and then went and looked for other things to compare it to, in order to put forth your strawman argument. I told you that repeatedly, but since you refused to concede, I simply moved the discussion forward. Because maybe you think playing word games is more important than having an actual exchange of ideas, but I don’t have time for word games and dishonest debating.

As for people being animal lovers, neither of us can claim to know what is in the mind/heart of every single person out there. But based on the people I know and everything I have seen, I have no doubt that if people had to actually kill the cow or pig with their own hands, seeing the fear and terror in the animal’s eyes, hearing the screams and watching it desperately struggle for its life as his throat is slit, a hell of a lot more people would be vegetarian. You’re free to disagree with that.

Time will tell, because that is one of the biggest reasons people go vegan. Because they realize that they could never kill the animal themselves in good conscience, when it’s completely unnecessary, so it’s hypocritical to pay someone else to do it for them daily. As more people go vegan, you will see.

It is not hypocritical to pay some one to do something you don't want, or can't do.


hy·poc·ri·sy
/həˈpäkrəsē/
noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

IF someone had a moral standard that they should be able to do anything they ask someone else to do, and they could not kill and butcher an animal, that would be hypocritical.


But if someone has the moral standard that killing and eating animals is ok, and they are just to sensitive to do it themselves, that is not hypocritical, it is just squeamish.


Now, if that person were to look down on people who worked on ranches, raising and slaughtering animals for them to eat, THAT would be hypocritical of them.



But what you describe, is not.



YOu have made an arbitrary moral judgement, and are acting like anyone that does not agree with you, is morally wrong.


That is nonsense on your part.


And I am being very, very gentle with you on that moral judgement.

OK, we are on two different pages here. You’re talking about someone being squeamish, that’s not what I’ve been talking about. I was talking about a person not being able to kill – not because that person doesn’t like the sight of blood, but because that person loves animals and would realize in that moment that causing the animal to go through terror, pain, and death, taking the one thing that’s most important to any sentient being, life itself, simply for the momentary satisfaction of eating a piece of meat, isn’t worth it and would feel wrong, for THEM. THAT is what I was talking about when I mentioned earlier that when a person like that pays someone else 3 times a day to do what they couldn’t do, their values are not in line with their actions.

And to be clear, I am not judging that type of person, because I was there myself a few years ago, all vegans were, and because as I said earlier, most of those types of people don’t realize that their values aren’t aligned with their actions, because most people who love animals yet eat a standard American diet don’t realize what exactly goes on in the animal industries, as well as the environmental impact, the health aspect, etc. Many people are blissfully unaware. Those are the people who I’ve been trying to reach, and it’s the reason I started a blog /YouTube channel called Live Mercifully.

No one loves "animals", any more than one loves "people".


We love some people. We might love, or like some animals.


I like my cat. My cat, i hope, likes me. My cat has killed, uncounted mice, birds and even two rabbits. The fact that the cat killed some animals, does not mean that it does not love or like other animals, such as the humans in the house.


I like my cat. ON the other hand, I have raised many, and in one instance helped kill, animals and ate it/them.


The two processes have nothing to do with each other.


YOu are unable to understand that most people are diffferent than you, and have no problem with behavior that you are railing against.

Correct. In the past three years, I have had to euthanize 4 of My 6 cats because of their age and the diseases that are assocated with the aging of cats. I loved each and every one of them.

 

[Uncensored2008]

View attachment 229757

Did you watch the video?

Made me hungry for a hamburger.

 

[Darkwind]

I like my cat. My cat, i hope, likes me. My cat has killed, uncounted mice, birds and even two rabbits. The fact that the cat killed some animals, does not mean that it does not love or like other animals, such as the humans in the house.

If you die alone, and your cats are still alive and in the house, they WILL eat your face.

LOL

Dude, serious phobia going on there.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Man is DESIGNED to eat meat. When one does not eat meat one must jump through hoops to get all the things they no longer get from meat consumption.

I completely disagree, but let me ask you this… Who do you claim designed us to eat meat? The word design implies a designer, or creator. And if you’re coming at it from a Christian perspective, you are flat out wrong. Genesis 1:29–30 clearly states that our original design was to eat a plant-based diet.

You don't "disagree," you promote your ignorance. That humans are omnivores is biological fact. We are designed to eat meat. We evolved that way, from our forward set eyes to track prey to our teeth designed to tear flesh to our digestive system that breaks down flesh.

Your ignorance does not alter reality.

I hunt, I kill. I live with other animals that hunt and kill. Dogs who are fellow omnivores, and cats who are flat out carnivores. We get along splendidly, we are all hunters. It is our nature.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Man is DESIGNED to eat meat. When one does not eat meat one must jump through hoops to get all the things they no longer get from meat consumption.

I completely disagree, but let me ask you this… Who do you claim designed us to eat meat? The word design implies a designer, or creator. And if you’re coming at it from a Christian perspective, you are flat out wrong. Genesis 1:29–30 clearly states that our original design was to eat a plant-based diet.

If you pay attention to the Jews (remember, the OT is THEIR book), you would know that after the Flood, mankind was so weakened that God decided to lift the ban on eating meat.

Interestingly enough, there were rules back in those times about who could and couldn't eat meat. If you were poor, no meat. If you were middle class, meat once a week. If you were wealthy? Then you had meat every day.

Learned that from a religious show called "Hidden in the Hebrew with Uri Harel".

We were talking about man’s original design.

You're talking shit.

You defy fact for your weird religion.

 

[Darkwind]

Probably off-topic, your post reminded me of it. It's a good video, though.

Great video. I couldn't stop watching it.

Wow, this guy just crushes the liberal talking point about rednecks being backwoods, uneducated, idjits. LOL

 

[Uncensored2008]

Man is DESIGNED to eat meat. When one does not eat meat one must jump through hoops to get all the things they no longer get from meat consumption.

I completely disagree, but let me ask you this… Who do you claim designed us to eat meat? The word design implies a designer, or creator. And if you’re coming at it from a Christian perspective, you are flat out wrong. Genesis 1:29–30 clearly states that our original design was to eat a plant-based diet.

Wrong man was given all animals to use and eat. But biologically man NEEDS meat, with out it you need special diets and vitamins.

Every vegan I know is sickly.

Then you don’t get out much. There are a fast growing amount of vegan athletes, vegan bodybuilders, runners, etc. You’re going by outdated, lame info.

I get out plenty, and every last vegan I have EVER met is constantly sick. ALWAYS something, always missing work. I think part of it is the pussy attitude that is part of the mental illness of vegans, but the diet doesn't help.

 

[Darkwind]

Man is DESIGNED to eat meat. When one does not eat meat one must jump through hoops to get all the things they no longer get from meat consumption.

I completely disagree, but let me ask you this… Who do you claim designed us to eat meat? The word design implies a designer, or creator. And if you’re coming at it from a Christian perspective, you are flat out wrong. Genesis 1:29–30 clearly states that our original design was to eat a plant-based diet.

Wrong man was given all animals to use and eat. But biologically man NEEDS meat, with out it you need special diets and vitamins.

Every vegan I know is sickly.

Then you don’t get out much. There are a fast growing amount of vegan athletes, vegan bodybuilders, runners, etc. You’re going by outdated, lame info.

I get out plenty, and every last vegan I have EVER met is constantly sick. ALWAYS something, always missing work. I think part of it is the pussy attitude that is part of the mental illness of vegans, but the diet doesn't help.

Thats strange. My wife is vegan. Puts in 60+ hours per week and hasn't taken a sick day in nearly 10 years. Not to mention, she works circles around anyone who cares to try to keep up with her.

What diet people want to follow is their business. It is wrong to put people down for that lifestyle choice that harms no one.

ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

Live and let it go. As long as they are not making laws to force Me to eat that way, I could not care less.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Little kids have the IQ of a turnip.......
I guess it's no wonder you take their advice.

My girls LOVED to see the chickens slaughtered when they were young. They would cuddle them and say things like "you're going to taste so good" and then clap as they would run after their head was cut off.

They HATED plucking the chicken afterwards..

 

[Uncensored2008]

I read back in the 1980s Stallone was a strict veggie guy..

But I love steak..

.

I completely get it. I used to love meat so much that I distinctly remember saying “I could never be vegetarian or vegan.” The funny thing is, pretty much every vegan says that exact same thing. And most vegans (at least the ones who do it for the animals) later say it was the best decision they ever made.

I love bake potatoes and stuff..


But where do you get the protein from?


Don't you feel weak..

.

There’s protein in a lot of plant-based foods...Beans, lentils, chickpeas, grains, peanut butter, veggies, tofu, etc.. No, I don’t feel week. In fact, my health has improved substantially in the last couple years. And these days, it’s so easy! There’s alternatives for pretty much everything.

....oh fer fukes sake!!!!
Week? You cant see your own mental weakness due to your dietary choices.

I am telling you she is very pretty..


And you know she could beat your ass in a heart beat

Why would anyone care?

Are you looking for a date?

 

[buttercup]

We’re living in a different world now. Most people do not kill animals for survival. Some might think they are, but as those quotes I posted earlier show, from a health standpoint, it is completely unnecessary. It’s done because of habit/ tradition/ taste.

Factory farms are filling up entire lagoons with animal waste (actual shit), contaminating groundwater, polluting rivers, polluting the air, causing people living nearby to be sick. An outrageous amount of rainforests are being destroyed continually, to make room for animal agriculture. Outrageous amounts of resources are being completely wasted, because of animal agriculture. It’s killing people and it’s killing the planet. I completely understand your position. I was there myself. But mark my words… The world is changing. A plant based diet is the future. Not only from a secular standpoint, as people are going vegan in droves, but also from a biblical standpoint.

Dude. You made a point, I responded to that point, and you just moved on to your next point


That is what a person does when, on some level, they know the shit they are spouting is shit.

YOu made the point about people being "animal lovers", and I crushed it.

You haven’t crushed anything and I’m amazed that you’re choosing to still be needlessly argumentative instead of having an actual discussion.

No, you deceptively reframed my point. I never, ever ever claimed that ANYTIME someone doesn’t want to look at something, they shouldn’t support that thing. That was what YOU tried to make my argument into. You took my very specific point about what goes on in the animal industries and then went and looked for other things to compare it to, in order to put forth your strawman argument. I told you that repeatedly, but since you refused to concede, I simply moved the discussion forward. Because maybe you think playing word games is more important than having an actual exchange of ideas, but I don’t have time for word games and dishonest debating.

As for people being animal lovers, neither of us can claim to know what is in the mind/heart of every single person out there. But based on the people I know and everything I have seen, I have no doubt that if people had to actually kill the cow or pig with their own hands, seeing the fear and terror in the animal’s eyes, hearing the screams and watching it desperately struggle for its life as his throat is slit, a hell of a lot more people would be vegetarian. You’re free to disagree with that.

Time will tell, because that is one of the biggest reasons people go vegan. Because they realize that they could never kill the animal themselves in good conscience, when it’s completely unnecessary, so it’s hypocritical to pay someone else to do it for them daily. As more people go vegan, you will see.

It is not hypocritical to pay some one to do something you don't want, or can't do.


hy·poc·ri·sy
/həˈpäkrəsē/
noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

IF someone had a moral standard that they should be able to do anything they ask someone else to do, and they could not kill and butcher an animal, that would be hypocritical.


But if someone has the moral standard that killing and eating animals is ok, and they are just to sensitive to do it themselves, that is not hypocritical, it is just squeamish.


Now, if that person were to look down on people who worked on ranches, raising and slaughtering animals for them to eat, THAT would be hypocritical of them.



But what you describe, is not.



YOu have made an arbitrary moral judgement, and are acting like anyone that does not agree with you, is morally wrong.


That is nonsense on your part.


And I am being very, very gentle with you on that moral judgement.

OK, we are on two different pages here. You’re talking about someone being squeamish, that’s not what I’ve been talking about. I was talking about a person not being able to kill – not because that person doesn’t like the sight of blood, but because that person loves animals and would realize in that moment that causing the animal to go through terror, pain, and death, taking the one thing that’s most important to any sentient being, life itself, simply for the momentary satisfaction of eating a piece of meat, isn’t worth it and would feel wrong, for THEM. THAT is what I was talking about when I mentioned earlier that when a person like that pays someone else 3 times a day to do what they couldn’t do, their values are not in line with their actions.

And to be clear, I am not judging that type of person, because I was there myself a few years ago, all vegans were, and because as I said earlier, most of those types of people don’t realize that their values aren’t aligned with their actions, because most people who love animals yet eat a standard American diet don’t realize what exactly goes on in the animal industries, as well as the environmental impact, the health aspect, etc. Many people are blissfully unaware. Those are the people who I’ve been trying to reach, and it’s the reason I started a blog /YouTube channel called Live Mercifully.

No one loves "animals", any more than one loves "people".


We love some people. We might love, or like some animals.


I like my cat. My cat, i hope, likes me. My cat has killed, uncounted mice, birds and even two rabbits. The fact that the cat killed some animals, does not mean that it does not love or like other animals, such as the humans in the house.


I like my cat. ON the other hand, I have raised many, and in one instance helped kill, animals and ate it/them.


The two processes have nothing to do with each other.


YOu are unable to understand that most people are diffferent than you, and have no problem with behavior that you are railing against.

I don’t have to love every single person in the world to value human life in general, and have respect for human rights, and to try to treat people fairly and kindly.

It’s the same with animals. Of course most people, including vegans, aren’t necessarily crazy about every single animal. (Although believe it or not, people like that do exist, I’ve encountered people like that.) But when I say people who love animals, I’m talking about people who see the beauty and value of animals in general, and understand intuitively that they should be treated with respect and dignity. Those are the people I was referring to when I said if it ever came down to them having to kill a cow, pig or lamb with their own two hands, they probably wouldn’t be able to do it because it would go against their conscience, especially if it was unnecessary.

Yes, there are many people who only love their cat or dog, but have hardened their hearts toward other types of animals, namely farm animals. But that is because of centuries of conditioning, indoctrination.

That is exactly what many vegans are trying to expose and change. For example, Americans and others in the first world countries adore dogs, and treat dogs with so much love and kindness. Pigs are just as smart as dogs or even smarter, and just as social and loveable....yet they are one of the most abused, exploited animals of all. The only reason why is because of tradition, indoctrination, and because people like the taste of pork. (BTW, bacon in its original form does not taste the same way it does after it has been processed. You can ask Natural Citizen about that, he will explain.)

The bottom line is (this goes especially for those who say they love animals) it makes no sense to love and cherish a dog or cat, yet treat other animals who are just like dogs in the most horrific, abusive, cruel ways, which is exactly what goes on in factory farms and slaughterhouses.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Great video. Itcouldn't stop watching it.

Yeah. It was a good one, for sure.

And guess what. He's one of us!

Read his record, lolol. - Thomas Massie