Thou shall not bear false witness against Obama

[Lonestar_logic]

You truly are showing your stupidity.

You actually have the balls to call ME stupid? I can't tell if you have a reading problem or a comprehension problem. I don't give a shit if Obama is a proponent of blue or green M&Ms, or anything else for that matter. As long as he isn't strong arming anyone in Congress to implement what he is a proponent of, what does it matter?

Then why the fuck are you debating the topic? Oh, it's probably because you are STUPID!

 

[VaYank5150]

HR 3200, hold on

Arawyn, I give you credit for actually having read at least part of HR 3200. Many opponents and naysayers have not even bothered to do that much. However, the sections that you posted and highlighted do not say anything about people getting stuck with ONLY the public option, should their employer drop their coverage. Am I missing something?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Yank - This (lonestar debate) is one of those situations we were talking about on another thread. It's not worth it. I understand and empathize with your frustration - BELIEVE ME.

 

[VaYank5150]

Then why the fuck are you debating the topic? Oh, it's probably because you are STUPID!

Actually, because I feel impelled to dismiss as much of this BS as I possibly can. If I succeed through debate, awesome. If I succeed by making people look stupid for not doing their homework, well, so be it. Which one are you?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Yank - This (lonestar debate) is one of those situations we were talking about on another thread. It's not worth it. I understand and empathize with your frustration - BELIEVE ME.

In others words Yank. I'll own you like I owned nodog.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Then why the fuck are you debating the topic? Oh, it's probably because you are STUPID!

Actually, because I feel impelled to dismiss as much of this BS as I possibly can. If I succeed through debate, awesome. If I succeed by making people look stupid for not doing their homework, well, so be it. Which one are you?

And you have failed!!! You have yet to produce any sort of evidence to support your argument, while the rest of us are presenting quotes and video clips. You think that by simply dismissing the overwhelming evidence you will win. You are as clueless as you are stupid. But please proceed, after all, you are good for a laugh.

 

[nodoginnafight]

yes, EXACTLY like you "owned" me.

Still trying to argue that "more people have self-identified as Democrats" makes a claim as to the diversity of those people???????

Yeah, "owned."

You've been proven so wrong so many times and all I ever see you do in response is curse, name-call and claim it is your right to believe one plus one equals four.

"owned"

Yeah, believe whatever you need to in order to bolster that sagging ego. Curse a little more .... claim "victory" a little more ..... maybe you'll even start to believe some of it ....

 

[VaYank5150]

In others words Yank. I'll own you like I owned nodog.

Now THIS, just goes to show what a dipshit you are......

 

[VaYank5150]

You have yet to produce any sort of evidence to support your argument, while the rest of us are presenting quotes and video clips.

Is it possible that through all of your 2003 and 2004 video clips of Obama that you have completely forgotten what the argument was? I would be willing to bet you could not tell me what point you are trying to make that is supported by ANY of your video clips, etc.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

yes, EXACTLY like you "owned" me.

Still trying to argue that "more people have self-identified as Democrats" makes a claim as to the diversity of those people???????

Yeah, "owned."

You've been proven so wrong so many times and all I ever see you do in response is curse, name-call and claim it is your right to believe one plus one equals four.

"owned"

Yeah, believe whatever you need to in order to bolster that sagging ego. Curse a little more .... claim "victory" a little more ..... maybe you'll even start to believe some of it ....

You should change your name to nofightinthedog.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Like I said yank - you can prove this guy wrong again and again and again. Doesn't matter - HE'LL claim purple is pink and call you a stupid fuckstick 'cause you don't believe it.

Truly - THIS is a prime example of what we were discussing.

He's in my ignore list. There's no need to think for a second on anything he posts.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You have yet to produce any sort of evidence to support your argument, while the rest of us are presenting quotes and video clips.

Is it possible that through all of your 2003 and 2004 video clips of Obama that you have completely forgotten what the argument was? I would be willing to bet you could not tell me what point you are trying to make that is supported by ANY of your video clips, etc.

Oh brother, now I have to remind you what the argument was about? I should have expected as much. The point that I, along with other like-minded individuals, has made and have shown with quotes, videos and words from Obama's own book has sufficiently shown where he stands on the issue at hand. You on the other hand have yet to produce ANYTHING of substance to counter the point that was made. If you're too stupid to remember what you were arguing about, then I suggest you concede and move on.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Like I said yank - you can prove this guy wrong again and again and again. Doesn't matter - HE'LL claim purple is pink and call you a stupid fuckstick 'cause you don't believe it.

Truly - THIS is a prime example of what we were discussing.

He's in my ignore list. There's no need to think for a second on anything he posts.

Your concession is duly noted.... again.

 

[Arawyn]

HR 3200, hold on

Arawyn, I give you credit for actually having read at least part of HR 3200. Many opponents and naysayers have not even bothered to do that much. However, the sections that you posted and highlighted do not say anything about people getting stuck with ONLY the public option, should their employer drop their coverage. Am I missing something?

I haven't yet, as I'm loafing at work (but should have time at home tonight) to find the specific provision I was discussing; however, I did quote a troubling part and bolded it.

Which means that after "date y" there can be no new enrollees in existing coverage.

NOW, it MIGHT mean in deficient plans, but I need to look further for the provision we are discussing.

And it will take me a while and I actually have to get some work done today *pout*

 

[Annytheperson]

Any deliberately falsification and deception for political or any other reason is bearing false witness.

An informed democracy operates best in an environment of social civilty, calmily discussing policy decisions based on factual information and what is best for all Americans. Watching Elvis, divecon, and CrusaderFrank (the rest of you don't rate) arching meteorlike across the atmosphere of debate propelled by the ignition of hot gasses from their asses, of course, remains an incredible spectator sport. Such displays of hannittyinsanity lifts my spirit and brings a ghost of a smile to my manly visage.

Let's, though, avoid False Witness as we flame one another.

Show me the AARP endorsement! Obama said he had it where is it? Is it under Kerry Form 180? Is it under Obama's Birth Certificate?

"I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter." -- Barack Obama on Tuesday, August 11th, 2009 in a town hall meeting in New Hampshire

Well... not that is not exactly true. When a senator, Barack Obama stated, “I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent, 14 percent, of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”

And now he says, he is not necessarily for single payer?

Perhaps he should make up his mind....
\

 

[Annytheperson]

Any deliberately falsification and deception for political or any other reason is bearing false witness.

An informed democracy operates best in an environment of social civilty, calmily discussing policy decisions based on factual information and what is best for all Americans. Watching Elvis, divecon, and CrusaderFrank (the rest of you don't rate) arching meteorlike across the atmosphere of debate propelled by the ignition of hot gasses from their asses, of course, remains an incredible spectator sport. Such displays of hannittyinsanity lifts my spirit and brings a ghost of a smile to my manly visage.

Let's, though, avoid False Witness as we flame one another.

Show me the AARP endorsement! Obama said he had it where is it? Is it under Kerry Form 180? Is it under Obama's Birth Certificate?

"I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter." -- Barack Obama on Tuesday, August 11th, 2009 in a town hall meeting in New Hampshire

Well... not that is not exactly true. When a senator, Barack Obama stated, “I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent, 14 percent, of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”

And now he says, he is not necessarily for single payer?

Perhaps he should make up his mind.... what are we supposed to believe? are we supposed to believe that he changed his mind, or should we believe he has not changed his mind, and is bearing false witness as to his intentions. I just don't trust the guy.

 

[jillian]

Show me the AARP endorsement! Obama said he had it where is it? Is it under Kerry Form 180? Is it under Obama's Birth Certificate?

"I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter." -- Barack Obama on Tuesday, August 11th, 2009 in a town hall meeting in New Hampshire

Well... not that is not exactly true. When a senator, Barack Obama stated, “I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent, 14 percent, of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”

And now he says, he is not necessarily for single payer?

Perhaps he should make up his mind....
\

dude...that was your first post... chill.

reality:

The AARP says it is not endorsing any particular health care bill...however,

Just a few weeks ago, on July 14, the AARP issued a press release gushing about the introduction of the House health care reform bill saying, "This bill would make great strides for all of our members and their families." The group said it was pleased with the legislation for giving "every American has access to affordable, quality health care choices."

Specifically, the release said the bill would make prescription drugs less expensive for seniors, would block insurance companies from denying coverage based on age, and for capping out-of-pocket expenses for some insurance plans. AARP did not explicitly say it was endorsing the bill, but there was not a single negative comment in the statement.

In a July 14 ad sponsored by Healthy Economy Now — a coalition including AARP, the American Medical Association and the pharmaceutical industry, among others — the tone was decidedly upbeat. "The president and Congress have a plan to lower costs and stop denials for pre-existing conditions," the ad says. "It's time to act."

The following day, AARP released a statement about the version of the bill being debated in the Senate. This time, the group was slightly less complimentary; while it said most parts of the legislation were good, AARP remained concerned about a provision in the bill that would prevent some generic drugs from entering the market faster.

PolitiFact | Obama goes too far when he says health reform bills have AARP endorsement

 

[Annytheperson]

Kind of hard to do WHEN, he even admitted, when saying he wanted a single payer system, that it would take 15 to 20 years to get there.......this is just a first step.

Oh goodie...another conspiracy theorist! So, knowing full well that he would not be in office in 15-20 years to make sure this evil, dastardly single payer single came to fruition, why would he start it?

Surely you are jesting. He has basically said there are many steps to the process, and that he is instituting the first steps, which he feels as brilliant as they are to him, will lead to further steps... and eventually single payer system. Kind of a domino effect. Dominos don't require conspiracies to work. oh... and his first steps were: 1. have a democrat majority in the house 2. have a democrat majority in the senate 3. have a democrat in the white house, and cram health reform down our a$$ regardless of what we the people want or think. oh... guess what, that is where we are now.

HR 3200 has a date when new insurance policies constructed by private insurance companies can no longer be written. So, what do you think happens to a business when it is no longer allowed to have new customers? it is simple, that company goes out of business, for it is not allowed to grow. So, then what do you think happens? oh, gee... the public, government option is the only one that is left... so, we end up with a single payer system.

Interestingly enough, the people debating this topic who adamantly state we are not headed in the direction of single payer don't seem to acknowledge anything causally happening after the legislation is passed... so, therefore, they state we have options, we can keep our policy, and our doctors... but eventually, as a natural consequence of this legislation, these businesses will have to close their doors.

And about the end of life stuff... well, that was a pretty silly debate, or was it?
end of life counseling is simply talking about DNRs and the like... no biggie there. But, organ transplants are very, very expensive, and I would be surprised to see this surgery included... so, if the government plan denies organ transplants, are they not determining that a person's life is not worth the price of a surgery? By cutting Medicare payments to providers, don't you think that some, perhaps even many providers no longer provide Medicare services simply because they will go bankrupt otherwise. This will limit senior care. As it is, hospitals are going out of business waiting for federal money to pay for Medicare claims because the government takes up to 6 months to pay claims. Enhanced Medicare will only make this situation worse for hospitals....

Also, I believe in payment the big bucks to physicians, because I want the best and brightest operating on me, and those I love. If we pay them significantly less, then medicine will be attracting the C+ students instead of the A+ students. And is that what we really want, when our lives are at stake?

Please read the legislation. Please think about it. We clearly NEED health reform, but, I do not believe that we NEED this plan....

 

[Annytheperson]

This was my comment, Jillian... the rest I was replying to that someone else wrote. I don't know anything about AARP approval of the Obama plan, and so, I would not speculate on that. Below was my comment which was about Barack's ideology regarding a single payer plan. This is a quote from him.

Well... not that is not exactly true. When a senator, Barack Obama stated, “I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent, 14 percent, of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”

And now he says, he is not necessarily for single payer?

Perhaps he should make up his mind....

 

[Zoom-boing]

Oh goody, another Obamaniac.....See, I can do that too

What choice will there be when the employers (especially small businesses) start dumping coverage, and citizens are forced to take the government option (with no ability to shop for another plan) by the IRS 2.5% tax?

He's not worried about it occurring full time WHILE he's in office.....he wants a legacy and he wants this health insurance reform to be it.

Arawyn you just hit the nail on the head. Bravo!!!