Three kids die in makeshift heater explosion after landlord shuts off heat during pol

[Gracie]

This is just sad. If the tenant was deliquent, then fine...get him out. But have some compassion fercrhissakes. Pay or freeze to death with your children. That just seems so wrong.

 

[Gracie]

Anyone who would turn off the heat with a family inside in that kind of cold needs to go to prison. Three minutes in it and exposed skin can become frostbitten. I'm sorry but the father was trying to keep them alive. He was obviously desperate.

I hear stories like this and my blood runs cold. I realize the utilities and landlords are businesses but at some point, the human factor has to enter in.

She said it better than I did.

 

[Steven_R]

Except there were options for that father. Go to a hospital, fire station, homeless shelter, pretty much every county in America sets up emergency shelters of some sort when the weather gets that bad (hot, cold, hurricane, whatever). It didn't necessitate putting a propane heater in the living room.

What if it wasn't a question of turning the power off because the bill wasn't paid and was power lines being down?

 

[Tresha91203]

Something is untold. You dont keep a family of 7 in your unit for 7 months with no utilities. Damages alone would break you. It doesnt take 7 months to evict either. Im starting to wonder if someone set up a side deal and no one but him knew they were there ... or something weird. The official in the article acts like they didnt know even though there was an upcoming court date.

I dont see any LL keeping a tenant without utilities for 7 months. Even if they pay their rent, the LL loses in the end.

I dont see any court officially allowing a tenant to remain without addressing utilities in an emergency session ... even in spring ... there were 5 small children.

If anyone in an official capacity knew, social services would have been involved.

Theres more to this.

 

[Sarah G]

Something is untold. You dont keep a family of 7 in your unit for 7 months with no utilities. Damages alone would break you. It doesnt take 7 months to evict either. Im starting to wonder if someone set up a side deal and no one but him knew they were there ... or something weird. The official in the article acts like they didnt know even though there was an upcoming court date.

I dont see any LL keeping a tenant without utilities for 7 months. Even if they pay their rent, the LL loses in the end.

I dont see any court officially allowing a tenant to remain without addressing utilities in an emergency session ... even in spring ... there were 5 small children.

If anyone in an official capacity knew, social services would have been involved.

Theres more to this.

They probably paid the rent but not the propane tank bill. When we moved back here, we looked at a house in the country that had a propane tank. It was so expensive. After thinking about it, that was likely the scenario. He was getting rent money but not to fill the propane tank.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

state by state winter disconnection practices

State Disconnect Policies - LIHEAP Clearinghouse

Most cities have additional regulations that apply.

 

[Gracie]

Nobody should be freezing to death in this country.
Maybe he couldn't get the family to an emergency shelter. Maybe it was too far away. They made do with no electric for 7 months, but that is possible. Running water is a problem, but did they shut that off as well?
Yes, I think there is more to this story. But the major point is...that family froze to death.
So are those in Pine Ridge reservation. Every year, elderly folks die during the winter due to no heat. But not many think about that.
I was sending a box of warm clothing to them every year for awhile...and some folks were donating fuel to heat their homes. But I had to stop coupla years ago. I couldn't afford the shipping although I could get plenty of warm blankets and clothing for the rez.
I did what I could.
These people that froze....those small children...it's just....sad. And so unneccesary.

 

[Politico]

Capitalism for you. landlord more interested in profits than poor kids and their families...fucking assholes. They should be charged with murder.

His tenants agreed to pay utilities. They didn't. If you stopped paying your obligations, would you expect the landlord to let you stay on out of the goodness of his heart?

Oh wait! You don't pay your rent and proudly stated that, didn't you?

Never mind.

I think that pretty much lays it out.

 

[Spiderman]

Capitalism for you. landlord more interested in profits than poor kids and their families...fucking assholes. They should be charged with murder.

His tenants agreed to pay utilities. They didn't. If you stopped paying your obligations, would you expect the landlord to let you stay on out of the goodness of his heart?

Oh wait! You don't pay your rent and proudly stated that, didn't you?

Never mind.

This is exactly the reason I do not include utilities in rent.

All of my apartments are metered separately for both electric and gas and the tenants have to deal directly with the utilities.

I pay for lighting the common areas, halls, stairwells and exits etc.

 

[National Socialist]

Capitalism for you. landlord more interested in profits than poor kids and their families...fucking assholes. They should be charged with murder.

His tenants agreed to pay utilities. They didn't. If you stopped paying your obligations, would you expect the landlord to let you stay on out of the goodness of his heart?

Oh wait! You don't pay your rent and proudly stated that, didn't you?

Never mind.

I REFUSE to pay rent to a landlord that REFUSES to cut the grass,empty the septic tank,fix the lights in the apartment etc etc etc. He stops being a slum lord I pay him rent. I have the money...he won't fix anything so we are moving next month.

Capitalism for you. landlord more interested in profits than poor kids and their families...fucking assholes. They should be charged with murder.

If only someone, somewhere, had tried socialism.

Wait, they did, and it killed people all the time.

Yes because capitalism makes sure people never die amiright!?

If utilities could not be cut off no one would ever pay a utility bill. Maybe that will be the next government takeover. Free utilities paid for by raising taxes.

Sorry but this is the fault of the adults in the family. The utilities had been cut off for months. It's not like it came as a surprise.

Bullshit. Its the fault of the asshole landlords. Which is exactly why I said utilities such as water/electricity should be free. Just like they were in Libya.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Capitalism for you. landlord more interested in profits than poor kids and their families...fucking assholes. They should be charged with murder.

Yes the parent should be, why didn't they pay their bills?

 

[National Socialist]

Maybe because capitalist swine didn't pay him enough for his job...maybe this capitalist system sent his job overseas to avoid regulation and paying a decent wage...he did what he could to keep his kids warm. The landlords and utility company should be charged with murder and a HUGE fucking lawsuit filed.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Maybe because capitalist swine didn't pay him enough for his job...maybe this capitalist system sent his job overseas to avoid regulation and paying a decent wage...he did what he could to keep his kids warm. The landlords and utility company should be charged with murder and a HUGE fucking lawsuit filed.

Get a better job if you can't make payments for what you owe.

 

[Papawx3]

Capitalism for you. landlord more interested in profits than poor kids and their families...fucking assholes. They should be charged with murder.

His tenants agreed to pay utilities. They didn't. If you stopped paying your obligations, would you expect the landlord to let you stay on out of the goodness of his heart?

Oh wait! You don't pay your rent and proudly stated that, didn't you?

Never mind.

I honestly thought you were not allowed to cut off heat. No matter what.

In most states, as it is here, the utility companies are not allowed to cut off the power or gas IF the normal daytime temperatures are expected to dip below 32 degrees (f). In this case though, those utilities had been off for MONTHS, meaning they had probably been cut off long before the cold weather ever set in.
So if the weather is nice out, and you decide to NOT PAY your utility bills, and they get cut off as a result, what's a landlord supposed to do? Turn them back on in the winter just because the weather gets cold??

 

[Papawx3]

Capitalism for you. landlord more interested in profits than poor kids and their families...fucking assholes. They should be charged with murder.

His tenants agreed to pay utilities. They didn't. If you stopped paying your obligations, would you expect the landlord to let you stay on out of the goodness of his heart?

Oh wait! You don't pay your rent and proudly stated that, didn't you?

Never mind.

I REFUSE to pay rent to a landlord that REFUSES to cut the grass,empty the septic tank,fix the lights in the apartment etc etc etc. He stops being a slum lord I pay him rent. I have the money...he won't fix anything so we are moving next month.

If only someone, somewhere, had tried socialism.

Wait, they did, and it killed people all the time.

Yes because capitalism makes sure people never die amiright!?

If utilities could not be cut off no one would ever pay a utility bill. Maybe that will be the next government takeover. Free utilities paid for by raising taxes.

Sorry but this is the fault of the adults in the family. The utilities had been cut off for months. It's not like it came as a surprise.

Bullshit. Its the fault of the asshole landlords. Which is exactly why I said utilities such as water/electricity should be free. Just like they were in Libya.

I think landlords should start asking more questions on rental applications. They should ask questions that elicit answers like yours above. When an applicant says they think utilities should be free, the landlord should tear up their application and tell them to go somewhere else. The place they have available is not for them.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

His tenants agreed to pay utilities. They didn't. If you stopped paying your obligations, would you expect the landlord to let you stay on out of the goodness of his heart?

Oh wait! You don't pay your rent and proudly stated that, didn't you?

Never mind.

I honestly thought you were not allowed to cut off heat. No matter what.

In most states, as it is here, the utility companies are not allowed to cut off the power or gas IF the normal daytime temperatures are expected to dip below 32 degrees (f). In this case though, those utilities had been off for MONTHS, meaning they had probably been cut off long before the cold weather ever set in.
So if the weather is nice out, and you decide to NOT PAY your utility bills, and they get cut off as a result, what's a landlord supposed to do? Turn them back on in the winter just because the weather gets cold??

So it was a problem the parents and their family were already aware of?
Where were the grand parents?
I be damn if I will let my grand child stay in a home that doesn't have power and water. My sons can do what ever but not my grand children.

 

[zeke]

Something is untold. You dont keep a family of 7 in your unit for 7 months with no utilities. Damages alone would break you. It doesnt take 7 months to evict either. Im starting to wonder if someone set up a side deal and no one but him knew they were there ... or something weird. The official in the article acts like they didnt know even though there was an upcoming court date.

I dont see any LL keeping a tenant without utilities for 7 months. Even if they pay their rent, the LL loses in the end.

I dont see any court officially allowing a tenant to remain without addressing utilities in an emergency session ... even in spring ... there were 5 small children.

If anyone in an official capacity knew, social services would have been involved.

Theres more to this.

You are exactly correct. Having been a landlord for 26 years now, if the tenant is not paying utilities then they are not paying rent. If they were not paying rent, why were they not evicted a while ago? If they were paying rent and utilities were included in the rent, the management company is done for.

One thing for sure, if the management company screwed up all the way around, they will pay dearly for these deaths. As they should.

But the entire story is not being told at the present.

 

[Papawx3]

I honestly thought you were not allowed to cut off heat. No matter what.

In most states, as it is here, the utility companies are not allowed to cut off the power or gas IF the normal daytime temperatures are expected to dip below 32 degrees (f). In this case though, those utilities had been off for MONTHS, meaning they had probably been cut off long before the cold weather ever set in.
So if the weather is nice out, and you decide to NOT PAY your utility bills, and they get cut off as a result, what's a landlord supposed to do? Turn them back on in the winter just because the weather gets cold??

So it was a problem the parents and their family were already aware of?
Where were the grand parents?
I be damn if I will let my grand child stay in a home that doesn't have power and water. My sons can do what ever but not my grand children.

That's nonsense, although because I am also a grandparent, I do understand your sympathy and compassion for the children.
However when it comes to the rights of grandparents vs. that of the the parents, the grandparents are often left on the outside looking in. That is, they have virtually no rights in deciding what is in the best interest of their own grandchildren. It is the parents who have all the rights, and rightfully so.
In a case such as the one above, the grandparents simply do not have the legal authority to remove the children from the freezing home, even if it is to save their lives.

 

[zeke]

In the state of Ohio, the utility company is allowed to send me a copy of a disconnect notice.

I give the tenant a few days to get squared away, then make a call to see that everything is ok.

If utilities are not paid, then you can expect that rent won't be paid. Go thirty days not paying me rent, and you will be evicted. Period. End of story.

I am a great landlord. All you gotta do is pay when agreed and or arranged. But I will not carry anyone past 30 days. That's all the law says I have to give up before the eviction process can begin.

I tell every tenant just what I said here; After non payment of 30 days, either move on your own or get evicted. By being straight, right up front about what will happen, I feel no real regret or guilt for doing my job.

To bad this management company didn't do their job. Those kids might still be alive.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

In most states, as it is here, the utility companies are not allowed to cut off the power or gas IF the normal daytime temperatures are expected to dip below 32 degrees (f). In this case though, those utilities had been off for MONTHS, meaning they had probably been cut off long before the cold weather ever set in.
So if the weather is nice out, and you decide to NOT PAY your utility bills, and they get cut off as a result, what's a landlord supposed to do? Turn them back on in the winter just because the weather gets cold??

So it was a problem the parents and their family were already aware of?
Where were the grand parents?
I be damn if I will let my grand child stay in a home that doesn't have power and water. My sons can do what ever but not my grand children.

That's nonsense, although because I am also a grandparent, I do understand your sympathy and compassion for the children.
However when it comes to the rights of grandparents vs. that of the the parents, the grandparents are often left on the outside looking in. That is, they have virtually no rights in deciding what is in the best interest of their own grandchildren. It is the parents who have all the rights, and rightfully so.
In a case such as the one above, the grandparents simply do not have the legal authority to remove the children from the freezing home, even if it is to save their lives.

It's not nonsense the grandparents should have stepped up and not allowed their grand children to live in those conditions. The courts would have agreed.