Time to Hang the Speculators?

[dblack]

So maybe the government should stop guaranteeing the banks?

Exactly

 

[JimmieD]

What are they going to do about it, start their own private investment bank?

Invest in something besides a bank that robs them. People ususally prefer to spend on anything other than something that robs them. You still haven't explained why shareholders don't seem to be bothered by being "robbed."

"Today’s speculators have created grotesque financial mechanisms, from usurious interest rates on loans to legalized accounting fraud, to plunge the masses into crippling forms of debt peonage.

Usarious interest rates? Interest rates have never been lower. How is a 4% 30 yr mortgage usarious?

Debt peonage? Who is being forced to borrow at usarious [4%] rates? You can alwas not-borrow if you think the price is too high. It doesn't seem like robbery if someone is willingly borrowing at an agreed interest rate. And what do usarious interest rates have to do with speculation?

"They steal staggering sums of public funds, such as the $85 billion of mortgage-backed securities and bonds, many of them toxic, that they unload each month on the Federal Reserve in return for cash.

Which public funds are they stealing? GNMA, FMCC, FNMA and the Fed willingly purchase the securities they buy - nobody is stealing from them. Nobody is holding them at gunpoint forcing them to take securities in exchange for cash.

"And when the public attempts to finance public-works projects they extract billions of dollars through wildly inflated interest rates."

Inflated? A 2% interest rate on a loan for 10 years is just about anything other than a wildly inflated interest rate.

Do explain how over a THOUSAND TRILLION in Derivatives in a few years betted is goof for the world...........

I don't see how they are necessarily good or bad for the world. Why are they bad for the world?

And how it of course didn't have anything to do with the crash of 2008, or the Dot com, y2k, and etc...................

It's all sooooooooooooo Innocent isn't it.........Just the markets man............Hey look, we raised the value of your house man...........It's now worth double what it used to be.................

Yeah, COOL..............POP............All gone................but NO BANKS FAILED MAN...............

16.2 TRILLION in Discount window loans to save the TOO BIG TO FAIL BANKS............sniff sniff.........as they blow up the markets without real economic recovery.........
and a Money Velocity that has basically died since the year 2000

Is this just repetition of some stuff you saw once on a blog?

 

[georgephillip]

Yes, the US Government has been emasculated.

Uh huh

Obvious

How do people as dumb as Hedges breed? "I have to put my what where?!!"

"Books[edit]

2002 : War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning (ISBN 1586480499)
2003 : What Every Person Should Know About War (ISBN 1417721049)
2005 : Losing Moses on the Freeway: The 10 Commandments in America (ISBN 0743255135)
2007 : American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America (ISBN 0743284437)
2008 : I Don't Believe in Atheists (ISBN 141656795X)
2008 : Collateral Damage: America's War Against Iraqi Civilians, with Laila Al-Arian (ISBN 1568583737)
2009 : When Atheism Becomes Religion: America's New Fundamentalists , (ISBN 9781416570783)
2009 : Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle (ISBN 9781568584379)
2010 : Death of the Liberal Class (ISBN 9781568586441)
2010 : The World As It Is: Dispatches on the Myth of Human Progress (ISBN 9781568586403)
2012 : Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt, with Joe Sacco (ISBN 9781568586434)"

Chris Hedges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yes, the US Government has been emasculated.

Uh huh

Obvious

How do people as dumb as Hedge breed?

On Conservative values, most of the time we agree.................

On this issue, NEVER..................

I believe in Capitalism, not this BS..............

Our Founding Fathers WARNED us about this....................

And the Shadow Traders have destroyed us time and time again..........

I stand against them, and their NOTIONAL VALUES.............

The problem is the government guarantees.

Why is the government taking the risk????

If the government is going to guarantee a bank, the bank should not be allowed to do anything other than run ATM machines

 

[georgephillip]

Chris Hedges offers his POV:

"Money, as Karl Marx lamented, plays the largest part in determining the course of history.

"Once speculators are able to concentrate wealth into their hands they have, throughout history, emasculated government, turned the press into lap dogs and courtiers, corrupted the courts and hollowed out public institutions, including universities, to justify their looting and greed..."

"Speculators at megabanks or investment firms such as Goldman Sachs are not, in a strict sense, capitalists.

"They do not make money from the means of production.

"Rather, they ignore or rewrite the law—ostensibly put in place to protect the vulnerable from the powerful—to steal from everyone, including their shareholders.

"They are parasites.

"They feed off the carcass of industrial capitalism.

"They produce nothing.

"They make nothing.

"They just manipulate money.

"Speculation in the 17th century was a crime.

"Speculators were hanged."

Chris Hedges: Overthrow the Speculators - Chris Hedges - Truthdig

Should subprime auto loans blow up in the same way subprime mortgages did five years ago, and Republicans AND Democrats in DC are unable to bail out the speculators the way they did in 2008-09, another possible solution was recently displayed in Cyprus where the idea was floated to allow speculators to use government to raid the private bank accounts of individuals with more than a $100,000 balance.

Imagine what would happen if Wall Street and its Republican/Democrat handmaidens tried that in the "Land of the Free" around November of 2016?

Should we steal from the 1% or hang the speculators?

Or both??

Hedges makes the same old mistake most socialists do: assuming that speculation and investment aren't valuable functions in an economy. But they are, and we can't make them go away. We'll always need some way of directing resources and labor toward the work that we want done. It's just a question of how.

Hedges argues subprime speculation where NINJA loans for houses and cars are NOT directing resources or labor towards work that should be done. My take on what he's saying is that we've entered a post-industrial age of speculation where money is used to make money without producing any useful goods or services to benefit humanity, and sometimes even to humanity's detriment

"The Bank of North Dakota, the vision of socialists from a century ago, has been in operation for 90 years. It offers the state’s farmers and businesses low interest rates on loans.

"After floods destroyed much of Grand Forks in 1997 the bank provided a six-month moratorium on mortgage payments and gave low-interest loans to the community to rebuild, a sharp contrast with the raw exploitation that marked the arrival of Wall Street bankers and speculators in Gulf Coast areas hit by Hurricane Katrina.

"Public banks in the United States, like the public banks in Germany, fund things such as solar power because it is good for communities rather than the portfolios of speculators."

Chris Hedges: Overthrow the Speculators - Chris Hedges - Truthdig

Would you agree the private sector has dominated the US economy over the past century?

 

[dblack]

Hedges argues subprime speculation where NINJA loans for houses and cars are NOT directing resources or labor towards work that should be done. My take on what he's saying is that we've entered a post-industrial age of speculation where money is used to make money without producing any useful goods or services to benefit humanity, and sometimes even to humanity's detriment

Well, the intro to his article, and the portions you quoted (in fact, bolded), said something else. Maybe you'd argue he's playing to the ignorant masses, perpetuating a myth, for their own good. But I'd rather stick with clear understanding.

Would you agree the private sector has dominated the US economy over the past century?

No. Not as much as it should, at least. The last century has been a progressive erosion of economic rights, with government intervening more and more in our economic decisions.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I don't remember who said it...but it is concise statement:
"Markets don't build bubbles, governments do".
In recent history there was the mortgage bubble, that was built by the government guaranteeing loans via the sudo government branches of Freddie and Fannie.
Right now there is the education bubble created by government guaranteeing loans via the sudo government agency Sallie Mae.
Right now there is the entire second financial market bubble created by government backed discount loans and bail outs.
Who lost and who gained?

 

[editec]

No Politicians or those in the Gov't are listening..............Never have and never will unless we vote them all out...........

As far as sending them to jail for being part of the crime, they'll never prosecute themselves so it will never stop unless we VOTE them all out both sides.

When you have a few minutes, please take a look at Chris's article.
He lays out steps we can take without raising taxes or FLUSHING congress:

"We can wrest back control of our economy, and finally our political system, from corporate speculators only by building local movements that decentralize economic power through the creation of hundreds of publicly owned state, county and city banks.

"The establishment of city, regional and state banks, such as the state public bank in North Dakota, permits localities to invest money in community projects rather than hand it to speculators.

"It keeps property and sales taxes, along with payrolls for public employees and pension funds, from lining the pockets of speculators such as Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein.

"Money, instead of engorging the bank accounts of the few, is leveraged to fund schools, restore infrastructure, sustain systems of mass transit and develop energy self-reliance."

Chris Hedges: Overthrow the Speculators - Chris Hedges - Truthdig

MY only complaint about this article is that Chris apparently does NOT understand why North Dakota's STATE BANK is doing so well.

This "solution" is really not such a solution as long as the STATE BANKS are still dealing with the MASTERS OF CAPITAL in the FED.

Most of these so called SPECULATORS were not speculating at all.

These villans were making FEES on SPECULATION and encouraging this UTTER WASTE of capital.

 

[georgephillip]

So maybe the government should stop guaranteeing the banks?

Repeal the Federal Reserve Act............

If they tank us again, seize their assets to pay the bill on their speculation.

No more Discount Window loans............

After repeal they can no longer be the Stock Holders of U.S. Currency............

We will no longer pay them a fee, and 6% on bonds to create our own currency.........

If that is what you are implying then YES.

And when they CRASH the economy again, prosecute thousands of bankers for control accounting fraud as a deterrent effect. If we begin filling US prisons with members of the 1%, Hope and Change won't be far behind.

 

[JimmieD]

And when they CRASH the economy again, prosecute thousands of bankers for control accounting fraud as a deterrent effect.

Who is "they?" The Fed? Did the Fed crash the economy?

If we begin filling US prisons with members of the 1%, Hope and Change won't be far behind.

Utopian paradise is just over the next horizon...as it always is.

 

[georgephillip]

Hedges argues subprime speculation where NINJA loans for houses and cars are NOT directing resources or labor towards work that should be done. My take on what he's saying is that we've entered a post-industrial age of speculation where money is used to make money without producing any useful goods or services to benefit humanity, and sometimes even to humanity's detriment

Well, the intro to his article, and the portions you quoted (in fact, bolded), said something else. Maybe you'd argue he's playing to the ignorant masses, perpetuating a myth, for their own good. But I'd rather stick with clear understanding.

Would you agree the private sector has dominated the US economy over the past century?

No. Not as much as it should, at least. The last century has been a progressive erosion of economic rights, with government intervening more and more in our economic decisions.

"Once speculators are able to concentrate wealth into their hands they have, throughout history, emasculated government, turned the press into lap dogs and courtiers, corrupted the courts and hollowed out public institutions, including universities, to justify their looting and greed."

Aren't we talking about Adam Smith's Masters of Mankind and their Vile Maxim here? To paraphrase: all for ourselves and nothing for others?

Every government yet created has served this fraction of 1% of its citizens at the expense of their majority.

As long a private bankers create our money supply, government intervention will always work in undemocratic ways

Chris Hedges: Overthrow the Speculators - Chris Hedges - Truthdig

 

[georgephillip]

I don't remember who said it...but it is concise statement:
"Markets don't build bubbles, governments do".
In recent history there was the mortgage bubble, that was built by the government guaranteeing loans via the sudo government branches of Freddie and Fannie.
Right now there is the education bubble created by government guaranteeing loans via the sudo government agency Sallie Mae.
Right now there is the entire second financial market bubble created by government backed discount loans and bail outs.
Who lost and who gained?

It might be a good idea to decide who caused subprime mortgages to explode in 2008 before Subprime auto loans do likewise in the near furure

"It is clear to anyone who has studied the financial crisis of 2008 that the private sector’s drive for short-term profit was behind it. More than 84 percent of the sub-prime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending.

"These private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

"Out of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006, only one was subject to the usual mortgage laws and regulations.

"The nonbank underwriters made more than 12 million subprime mortgages with a value of nearly $2 trillion.

"The lenders who made these were exempt from federal regulations.

"How then could the Mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg say the following at a business breakfast in mid-town Manhattan on November 1, 2011..."

Lest We Forget: Why We Had A Financial Crisis - Forbes

I suspect private money bribed politicians for actions like the repeal of Glass Steagall and other corporate friendly legislation to enhance the private profits while socializing the cost (blame) on "government."

 

[dblack]

Hedges argues subprime speculation where NINJA loans for houses and cars are NOT directing resources or labor towards work that should be done. My take on what he's saying is that we've entered a post-industrial age of speculation where money is used to make money without producing any useful goods or services to benefit humanity, and sometimes even to humanity's detriment

Well, the intro to his article, and the portions you quoted (in fact, bolded), said something else. Maybe you'd argue he's playing to the ignorant masses, perpetuating a myth, for their own good. But I'd rather stick with clear understanding.

Would you agree the private sector has dominated the US economy over the past century?

No. Not as much as it should, at least. The last century has been a progressive erosion of economic rights, with government intervening more and more in our economic decisions.

"Once speculators are able to concentrate wealth into their hands they have, throughout history, emasculated government, turned the press into lap dogs and courtiers, corrupted the courts and hollowed out public institutions, including universities, to justify their looting and greed."

Aren't we talking about Adam Smith's Masters of Mankind and their Vile Maxim here? To paraphrase: all for ourselves and nothing for others?

Every government yet created has served this fraction of 1% of its citizens at the expense of their majority.

As long a private bankers create our money supply, government intervention will always work in undemocratic ways

Chris Hedges: Overthrow the Speculators - Chris Hedges - Truthdig

It sounds like your issues are with government. Not sure how hanging investors is going to help.

 

[expat_panama]

...Would you agree the private sector has dominated the US economy over the past century?...

You understand that the U.S. economy is not run by the state but rather it's run by the people. The people also run the government; in fact, even the U.S. constitution itself was written by "the people". It's only fitting that people have control over the wealth they create and the government they've constituted.

This is usually where extreme fanatical left-wingers often falsely accuse free people of wanting anarchy --AKA "unfettered capitalism" or "the tyranny of the market place". So while the loonyloopyleft loves to say things that aren't true, you and I know that free people constituted the U.S. government to provide an orderly environment for commerce; one that would---

...establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity...

 

[georgephillip]

...Would you agree the private sector has dominated the US economy over the past century?...

You understand that the U.S. economy is not run by the state but rather it's run by the people. The people also run the government; in fact, even the U.S. constitution itself was written by "the people". It's only fitting that people have control over the wealth they create and the government they've constituted.

This is usually where extreme fanatical left-wingers often falsely accuse free people of wanting anarchy --AKA "unfettered capitalism" or "the tyranny of the market place". So while the loonyloopyleft loves to say things that aren't true, you and I know that free people constituted the U.S. government to provide an orderly environment for commerce; one that would---

...establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity...

I suspect we also know those who wrote the Constitution defined "people" somewhat more narrowly than we do today, did not include the word "corporation" in their document, and wanted Washington for their king; I suppose the status quo serves as a kind of security blanket for conservative con artists of all ages?

 

[georgephillip]

Well, the intro to his article, and the portions you quoted (in fact, bolded), said something else. Maybe you'd argue he's playing to the ignorant masses, perpetuating a myth, for their own good. But I'd rather stick with clear understanding.



No. Not as much as it should, at least. The last century has been a progressive erosion of economic rights, with government intervening more and more in our economic decisions.

"Once speculators are able to concentrate wealth into their hands they have, throughout history, emasculated government, turned the press into lap dogs and courtiers, corrupted the courts and hollowed out public institutions, including universities, to justify their looting and greed."

Aren't we talking about Adam Smith's Masters of Mankind and their Vile Maxim here? To paraphrase: all for ourselves and nothing for others?

Every government yet created has served this fraction of 1% of its citizens at the expense of their majority.

As long a private bankers create our money supply, government intervention will always work in undemocratic ways

Chris Hedges: Overthrow the Speculators - Chris Hedges - Truthdig

It sounds like your issues are with government. Not sure how hanging investors is going to help.

It seems to me our local, state, and national economies are all controlled by investors (or speculators) and taking control can only be accomplished through "government." (What am I missing?)

Chris Hedges: Overthrow the Speculators - Chris Hedges - Truthdig

"We can wrest back control of our economy, and finally our political system, from corporate speculators only by building local movements that decentralize economic power through the creation of hundreds of publicly owned state, county and city banks.

"The establishment of city, regional and state banks, such as the state public bank in North Dakota, permits localities to invest money in community projects rather than hand it to speculators.

"It keeps property and sales taxes, along with payrolls for public employees and pension funds, from lining the pockets of speculators such as Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein.

"Money, instead of engorging the bank accounts of the few, is leveraged to fund schools, restore infrastructure, sustain systems of mass transit and develop energy self-reliance."

 

[dblack]

"Once speculators are able to concentrate wealth into their hands they have, throughout history, emasculated government, turned the press into lap dogs and courtiers, corrupted the courts and hollowed out public institutions, including universities, to justify their looting and greed."

Aren't we talking about Adam Smith's Masters of Mankind and their Vile Maxim here? To paraphrase: all for ourselves and nothing for others?

Every government yet created has served this fraction of 1% of its citizens at the expense of their majority.

As long a private bankers create our money supply, government intervention will always work in undemocratic ways

Chris Hedges: Overthrow the Speculators - Chris Hedges - Truthdig

It sounds like your issues are with government. Not sure how hanging investors is going to help.

It seems to me our local, state, and national economies are all controlled by investors (or speculators) and taking control can only be accomplished through "government." (What am I missing?)

I guess what you're missing is that I think the economy should be controlled by investors. Government shouldn't have the power to control the economy.

 

[georgephillip]

It sounds like your issues are with government. Not sure how hanging investors is going to help.

It seems to me our local, state, and national economies are all controlled by investors (or speculators) and taking control can only be accomplished through "government." (What am I missing?)

I guess what you're missing is that I think the economy should be controlled by investors. Government shouldn't have the power to control the economy.

Who should have the power to coin money?

 

[dblack]

It seems to me our local, state, and national economies are all controlled by investors (or speculators) and taking control can only be accomplished through "government." (What am I missing?)

I guess what you're missing is that I think the economy should be controlled by investors. Government shouldn't have the power to control the economy.

Who should have the power to coin money?

Whoever wants to. I'd like to see bitcoins takeover as a common currency.

 

[eagle1462010]

I guess what you're missing is that I think the economy should be controlled by investors. Government shouldn't have the power to control the economy.

Who should have the power to coin money?

Whoever wants to. I'd like to see bitcoins takeover as a common currency.

So would you make this the Reserve Currency of the World........................

Would a GLOBAL VIRTUAL CURRENCY basically lead to a ONE WORLD CURRENCY.........

What are the pit falls for America if we lose the Reserve Status of the Dollar............

To me, that would be the Euro Dollar or Euro Zone on a Global Scale............All of the world would then be fiscally tied as Europe is now...................and 4 Southern Countries are currently considering leaving the Euro Zone because it has failed..............

Bit Coins can be manipulated and speculated just as any other form of currency........But if you have a fast computer and good internet service you can actually mine it and make money..............

My computer is too slow to make a buck off of it, as is my internet service.

Are you mining it..................