Tolerance? Not for Christians...

[AllieBaba]

wow. You're all over the map in that post.

how so?

Because i state that if she had not been willing to discuss this, she might have gone out into the world and actually done some harm?

I have no fear of discussing issues whether i am right or wrong. How else do we learn?

The university is being petty in this case. They are supposed to encourage learning and that is done through dialog. In this case, the best that can be said of them is that they have squelched free speech and an opportunity to teach some one who seems to be misguided. That is the best that can be said of the university.

Immie

the university may be unskillful in their approach to keeton. How they went about it caused her to dig her heels in. We do not know the professors intent, nor what went on in and out of school. It may have been the university's policy to prevent students from causing harm by making sure they are willing to follow professional conduct.

What i wish they had done was encourage her to look at alternative value systems and question her more about how she might suspend her own in the presence of a vulnerable client. We don't know exactly what happened in that school, but i'm sure there is more to the story than meets the eye.

exactly.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Gay college? Where would that be located, you ignorant hick? What do they teach there?

Whatever their perverted minds wish. Possibly evolution and gay awareness. There is nothing gay about homsexuality though as it is a life shortening life style.

Wow. The pure stupidity that spews from your mouth is sometimes unbelievable. How many years shorter lifespan does the average gay person have compared to straight people? Do tell.

The HONEST thing, Madeline, is to admit you hate Christians and you will do anything in your power to silence them, but instead you choose to go about silencing them via stealth by using a message of tolerance while employing any chance you can to bash them.

Because expecting this Christian to talk is silencing her. Right. Listen moron, this continues to have nothing to do with Christianity. The only people making this about Christianity are the rabid Christians. The school itself has reprimanded her for being unable to fulfill requirements. This is the real world. A professional world. You can either accomplish the requirements, or you can't. No one in the professional world cares about excuses. If you can't meet expectations of the profession and its standards: go home.

Should an athiest be allowed to graduate from divinity school and preach?

Why would an atheist want too to begin with? Another bad comparison.

Actually it's a rather accurate comparison. The standards of the profession are straight forward and transparent. The curriculum is documented. Every applicant can easily know that this exact topic would come up. So why would someone who would stir up so much crap at the topic knowingly want to get involved to begin with? Your question is just as accurate as this one, which makes the comparison spot on.

I don't agree with you.

Personally, I think "forced re-education" is a tragedy. You simply cannot force someone to believe what you want them to believe. The whole idea is fascist in my humble opinion. This is why I call this brainwashing.

This coming from someone who clearly has had no professional education. Again, this is a profession, not hand-holding. You can either perform, or you can go home. This is not about beliefs, this is not about religion, and this is not about forced brain washing.

 

[jillian]

Why would an atheist want too to begin with?

good question.

now why would someone who can't do their training as a counselor demand they be made a counselor?

 

[Newby]

Why would an atheist want too to begin with?

good question.

now why would someone who can't do their training as a counselor demand they be made a counselor?

That hasn't been shown or proven, or you may have a point.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Why would an atheist want too to begin with?

good question.

now why would someone who can't do their training as a counselor demand they be made a counselor?

That hasn't been shown or proven, or you may have a point.

She's refused to do the remediation program which is currently a condition of her education.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Why would an atheist want too to begin with?

good question.

now why would someone who can't do their training as a counselor demand they be made a counselor?

Because she feels being a Christian gives her special rights. She feels she doens't have to comply with the ethical standards of the counseling profession, Keeton holds herself above everyone else. No completion of required coursework. No accreditation.

 

[Immanuel]

Why would an atheist want too to begin with?

good question.

now why would someone who can't do their training as a counselor demand they be made a counselor?

Because she feels being a Christian gives her special rights. She feels she doens't have to comply with the ethical standards of the counseling profession, Keeton holds herself above everyone else. No completion of required coursework. No accreditation.

Still insisting on the unsubstantiated claims? I thought you had given up on those!

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

good question.

now why would someone who can't do their training as a counselor demand they be made a counselor?

Because she feels being a Christian gives her special rights. She feels she doens't have to comply with the ethical standards of the counseling profession, Keeton holds herself above everyone else. No completion of required coursework. No accreditation.

Still insisting on the unsubstantiated claims? I thought you had given up on those!

Immie

I'd like to give the young lady the benefit of the doubt, but I have to give it to the faculty.

At the very least, each side is 50% responsbile for the mess they're in. Allaince Defense Fund is bad news.

 

[AllieBaba]

Why would an atheist want too to begin with?

good question.

now why would someone who can't do their training as a counselor demand they be made a counselor?

What training, exactly, did Keeton fail at?

Oh, wait. She didn't. They just assume she will because she's a Christian.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Why would an atheist want too to begin with?

good question.

now why would someone who can't do their training as a counselor demand they be made a counselor?

What training, exactly, did Keeton fail at?

Oh, wait. She didn't. They just assume she will because she's a Christian.

Diversity training. She refused to take it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Because she feels being a Christian gives her special rights. She feels she doens't have to comply with the ethical standards of the counseling profession, Keeton holds herself above everyone else. No completion of required coursework. No accreditation.

Still insisting on the unsubstantiated claims? I thought you had given up on those!

Immie

I'd like to give the young lady the benefit of the doubt, but I have to give it to the faculty.

At the very least, each side is 50% responsbile for the mess they're in. Allaince Defense Fund is bad news.

That's exactly what abusers say, oddly enough. That they were made to be abusive, that there are two sides to every story, that it's the fault of the other person.

The Alliance Defense Fund is bad news how, exactly? Because they dare to defend freedom of religion? You should be glad, Sky, that there's still somebody willing to do that. Because you're shitting in your own bed with your views.

 

[AllieBaba]

good question.

now why would someone who can't do their training as a counselor demand they be made a counselor?

What training, exactly, did Keeton fail at?

Oh, wait. She didn't. They just assume she will because she's a Christian.

Diversity training. She refused to take it.

Actually, she didn't refuse the training. They told her she had to choose between the bible and the ACA fucking "let's change our stance very 10 years" fads. It had absolutely nothing to do with her refusing diversity training. She said she wouldn't put the ACA standards over the bible. That was specifically what she was told she had to do, and she said no.

She didn't say no to the diversity training.

Try again.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Still insisting on the unsubstantiated claims? I thought you had given up on those!

Immie

I'd like to give the young lady the benefit of the doubt, but I have to give it to the faculty.

At the very least, each side is 50% responsbile for the mess they're in. Allaince Defense Fund is bad news.

That's exactly what abusers say, oddly enough. That they were made to be abusive, that there are two sides to every story, that it's the fault of the other person.

The Alliance Defense Fund is bad news how, exactly? Because they dare to defend freedom of religion? You should be glad, Sky, that there's still somebody willing to do that. Because you're shitting in your own bed with your views.

Stop personalizing this discussion, Allie. It's not about me.

 

[AllieBaba]

Bigotry is always personal.

 

[Coyote]

And again.
Affirming the life of a client IS NOT THE SAME AS AFFIRMING THE LIFESTYLE.
Do you understand yet? Affirming the person is NOT the same as giving kudos for lifestyle. Counselors are absolutely NOT required to proclaim their support of any lifestyle.

The quoting in the post is mixed up so I'm not sure who is saying what here, I'll answer what I think you are saying in the simplest way because you are going way off on an emotional tangent that I am not following.

1. The standards that regulate this profession all agree on homosexuality as state of being - like heterosexuality- not a lifestyle. It's like being male or female, black or white, fat or thin. Are we on the same page here? It doesn't matter what we personally "believe" - this is what governs the profession.

Right off the bat, this presents a problem for Ms. Keeton because she does not believe that. This means she can not affirm the person because it includes what she views as a "lifestyle". And by the standards of her curriculum and hoped for profession - it is no more a "lifestyle" than being heterosexual.



This is where I'm trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about.



Umh. Nope. Just a really confused emotional rant.

All Christians think their biblical morality is for all persons. THAT'S WHAT MAKES US CHRISTIANS AND NOT BUDDHISTS. It's not a problem as the tenet of the religion is that WE ALL ARE SINNERS. We all fall short of the glory of God; homosexuality is one example of a way we do so, but so is extramarital sex, covetnous, dishonesty and a whole slew of other things.

I think you'll find not all Christians agree on all points except maybe the one and the definition of "biblical morality" is especially diverse among Christians.

There are many Christian counselors. There are many Hindu, Buddhist and Muslim counselors.

Of course there are....is there a problem with that?

She never harmed anyone or in any way intimated that she would force her religion on her clients. She was asked about her religion, she affirmed it, and she was told to put it away or she couldn't be a teacher or a counselor.

That's not entirely true as per the evidence presented so far in this case. The only part that is true is she has not harmed anyone. However - it is the university's responsability to ensure that any student they graduate is able to meet the professional standards of the program's guidelines and they have sufficient reason to feel she might not without some remediation. That's all it's about really. Thus far, we've not been able to hear much from ASU, because they are being sued but I suspect if it goes to trial, we'll hear their side too.

You can flim flam all you want, you're being dishonest. Just come out and admit you believe it's okay to discriminate against Christians based upon their faith and have done with it.

I'm not flim flamming anything.

I don't believe in discrimminating against any religion.

You can try to stuff words in my mouth all you want - but that doesn't make them true.

I'm simply stating the facts as they stand now rather than reacting with outraged emotion based on what is essentially only one side of the story.

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't need to stuff words in your mouth, you're great at that yourself.

 

[Coyote]

Still insisting on the unsubstantiated claims? I thought you had given up on those!

Immie

I'd like to give the young lady the benefit of the doubt, but I have to give it to the faculty.

At the very least, each side is 50% responsbile for the mess they're in. Allaince Defense Fund is bad news.

That's exactly what abusers say, oddly enough. That they were made to be abusive, that there are two sides to every story, that it's the fault of the other person.

The Alliance Defense Fund is bad news how, exactly? Because they dare to defend freedom of religion? You should be glad, Sky, that there's still somebody willing to do that. Because you're shitting in your own bed with your views.

Do they?


Why do you hate Sky Dancer so much?

 

[Coyote]

Why would an atheist want too to begin with?

good question.

now why would someone who can't do their training as a counselor demand they be made a counselor?

What training, exactly, did Keeton fail at?

Oh, wait. She didn't. They just assume she will because she's a Christian.

She's the only Christian in the program?

 

[Coyote]

Bigotry is always personal.

Yes. I'm beginning to realize that.

 

[Sky Dancer]

good question.

now why would someone who can't do their training as a counselor demand they be made a counselor?

What training, exactly, did Keeton fail at?

Oh, wait. She didn't. They just assume she will because she's a Christian.

She's the only Christian in the program?

I'm sure ASU is graduating plenty of Christians in the counseling program this year.