Trump and Israel: Is this the time to....

[fncceo]

I doubt that.

You're free to doubt it all you like ... considering the danger doesn't exist for you. Jews don't have the luxury of being quite so skeptical.

 

[Coyote]

I doubt that.

You're free to doubt it all you like ... considering the danger doesn't exist for you. Jews don't have the luxury of being quite so skeptical.

True.

But then again, they and the Palestinians have lived side by side more or less with out whole scale genocide.

Calling for ethnic cleansing and mass expulsions (where exactly are you going to send millions of people) is wrong.

 

[fncceo]

where exactly are you going to send millions

I don't plan on sending anyone, anywhere. I do believe that if Palestinian Arabs are seeking a more convivial environment, there are currently 22 countries with Arab majorities.

 

[Coyote]

....kick the Arab occupiers out of The West Bank and East Jerusalem?
This is The Promised Land. Promised from God to the descendants of Abraham.
Israel may never have a better opportunity.
Let these occupiers go to Jordan. Go to Egypt. Go to Syria. Even go to Gaza.
But it's time to go.

It's always interesting to see who calls for wholesale expulsions and ethnic cleansing.

The PLO would kill every Jew in the World if hey could. It's more interesting to see who takes Hitlerian point of view.

I doubt that.

I don't care what you doubt, I've been there.
you watch from your bedroom.

Everyone has their own bias and sees the world through that lens.

 

[Coyote]

where exactly are you going to send millions

I don't plan on sending anyone, anywhere. I do believe that if Palestinian Arabs are seeking a more convivial environment, there are currently 22 countries with Arab majorities.

There are a lot of European countries with Christian majorities too. Does that mean they are all culturally the same - I mean you can just send a German to Italy and expect them to fit right in?

 

[Doc1]

....kick the Arab occupiers out of The West Bank and East Jerusalem?
This is The Promised Land. Promised from God to the descendants of Abraham.
Israel may never have a better opportunity.
Let these occupiers go to Jordan. Go to Egypt. Go to Syria. Even go to Gaza.
But it's time to go.

It's always interesting to see who calls for wholesale expulsions and ethnic cleansing.

The PLO would kill every Jew in the World if hey could. It's more interesting to see who takes Hitlerian point of view.

I doubt that.

I don't care what you doubt, I've been there.
you watch from your bedroom.

Everyone has their own bias and sees the world through that lens.

Which explains your view.
The PLO and Hiizbollah could drop their weapons and there would be peace.
Israel could drop theirs and there would be genocide.

 

[Doc1]

where exactly are you going to send millions

I don't plan on sending anyone, anywhere. I do believe that if Palestinian Arabs are seeking a more convivial environment, there are currently 22 countries with Arab majorities.

There are a lot of European countries with Christian majorities too. Does that mean they are all culturally the same - I mean you can just send a German to Italy and expect them to fit right in?

Nope but they would try.

 

[fncceo]

I mean you can just send a German to Italy and expect them to fit right in?

Isn't that the point of the EU? Open borders and a common culture, common laws, common currency? Since the native language Arab countries is Arabic (the language spoken by Palestinian Arabs), it would be even easier.

 

[Coyote]

I mean you can just send a German to Italy and expect them to fit right in?

Isn't that the point of the EU? Open borders and a common culture, common laws, common currency? Since the native language Arab countries is Arabic (the language spoken by Palestinian Arabs), it would be even easier.

And...that's kind of why the EU is charting a rocky course. There are considerable cultural differences. Isn't it kind of ignorant to assume that all Middle Eastern cultures are the same? Or all African cultures? Or all Latin American cultures?

 

[fncceo]

And...that's kind of why the EU is charting a rocky course

Ummm ... no. The EU is plotting a rocky course because a) they allowed poorer EU states unlimited spending of the resources of the more solvent EU states and b) their predilection for open-borders extended far beyond the common culture of the European-states and they began filling their states with people who not only didn't share common values but showed no interest in adopting them.

I don't suggest for a moment that all Middle Eastern cultures are the same. The Middle East is chock-a-block with cultures, Arab, Jewish, Persian, Coptic, Greek, Turk ... However, the the Palestinian Arabs are Arabs. They share the same culture, history, language, and values of many nations who self-identify as Arab countries.

But, at this point, no one is seriously considering expulsion of Arab Palestinians from the disputed territories. Most people are willing to wait for the representative leaders of the Palestinian Arabs to come to the table as honest brokers and negotiate a border acceptable to reasonable folk on both sides. Until then, all else is a dorm-room bull session.

 

[Coyote]

And...that's kind of why the EU is charting a rocky course

Ummm ... no. The EU is plotting a rocky course because a) they allowed poorer EU states unlimited spending of the resources of the more solvent EU states and b) their predilection for open-borders extended far beyond the common culture of the European-states and they began filling their states with people who not only didn't share common values but showed no interest in adopting them.

I don't suggest for a moment that all Middle Eastern cultures are the same. The Middle East is chock-a-block with cultures, Arab, Jewish, Persian, Coptic, Greek, Turk ... However, the the Palestinian Arabs are Arabs. They share the same culture, history, language, and values of many nations who self-identify as Arab countries.

But, at this point, no one is seriously considering expulsion of Arab Palestinians from the disputed territories. Most people are willing to wait for the representative leaders of the Palestinian Arabs to come to the table as honest brokers and negotiate a border acceptable to reasonable folk on both sides. Until then, all else is a dorm-room bull session.

I think that is part of the EU problem, but that doesn't explain the rise in nationalism and cultural identity we are seeing.

The Palestinians are a mixture of ethnic Arabs and many other peoples including those indiginous to the area. Many of them have lived there for generations, if not hundreds or thousands of years. You don't just expel them any more than you expel the Jews.

The peace process is stalled not only because of the lack of a coherent leadership among the Palestinians but also Israel's own actions in settlement building. It's a mess.

 

[fncceo]

The Palestinians are a mixture of ethnic Arabs and many other peoples including those indiginous to the area.

That is the PREVIOUS definition of Palestinian -- one I fully accept. Palestine (the ancient Greek name for Israel and Judea) was peopled by Palestinians which included Jews, Arabs, and many others. However, since the creation of Israel, the term Palestinian has been co-opted to refer specifically and singularly to Palestinian Arabs. There is no historical basis for a belief in a cultural separation between Palestinian Arabs and other Gulf Arabs -- any more than there is a cultural separation between Californians and Nevadans.

As for any claims of ingenuousness by Palestinian Arabs, there is also no historical basis for that claim. The oldest existing cultural group to inhabit the region are Jews. Arab migrations to the Levant occurred thousands of years AFTER the foundation of the first Jewish kingdoms.

 

[Shusha]

The peace process is stalled not only because of ... Israel's own actions in settlement building. It's a mess.

The idea that Palestine absolutely must not have Jews living within its borders is a vile and dangerous idea. That the international community, and intelligent and thoughtful participants in this discussion have adopted this noxious idea is terrifying.

Its International Holocaust Remembrance Day. Let's remember that in order to justify the killing of so many people, first they had to be set apart, separated from the rest, made unacceptable. Let's not make that mistake again.

 

[Coyote]

The peace process is stalled not only because of ... Israel's own actions in settlement building. It's a mess.

The idea that Palestine absolutely must not have Jews living within its borders is a vile and dangerous idea. That the international community, and intelligent and thoughtful participants in this discussion have adopted this noxious idea is terrifying.

Its International Holocaust Remembrance Day. Let's remember that in order to justify the killing of so many people, first they had to be set apart, separated from the rest, made unacceptable. Let's not make that mistake again.

I agree, but let's keep in mind there is also a seperation of Palestinians going on as well.

 

[Coyote]

The Palestinians are a mixture of ethnic Arabs and many other peoples including those indiginous to the area.

That is the PREVIOUS definition of Palestinian -- one I fully accept. Palestine (the ancient Greek name for Israel and Judea) was peopled by Palestinians which included Jews, Arabs, and many others. However, since the creation of Israel, the term Palestinian has been co-opted to refer specifically and singularly to Palestinian Arabs. There is no historical basis for a belief in a cultural separation between Palestinian Arabs and other Gulf Arabs -- any more than there is a cultural separation between Californians and Nevadans.

As for any claims of ingenuousness by Palestinian Arabs, there is also no historical basis for that claim. The oldest existing cultural group to inhabit the region are Jews. Arab migrations to the Levant occurred thousands of years AFTER the foundation of the first Jewish kingdoms.

I consider that to be the current definition of Palestinian. Genetically they are shown to be right in the middle of the different Jewish genetic groups (closer in fact then some of the Jewish groupings are to each other). This would indicate that they are descendents of the original peoples there, mixed with successive waves of migrants and conquerers and like many peoples, they would have converted to new religions and adopted cultures. Libyans, Lebonese, Turks and Saudi's have are arabitized but they are also have distinct cultural identities. The argument that Palestinians are just more Arabs seems to be a way to justify mass expulsions, something that should never be justified.

 

[Shusha]

I agree, but let's keep in mind there is also a seperation of Palestinians going on as well.

No one in the international community supports the idea of an Arab-free Israel. No one. There is no moral equivalent going on here.

 

[Coyote]

I agree, but let's keep in mind there is also a seperation of Palestinians going on as well.

No one in the international community supports the idea of an Arab-free Israel. No one. There is no moral equivalent going on here.

True point.

 

[member]

....kick the Arab occupiers out of The West Bank and East Jerusalem?
This is The Promised Land. Promised from God to the descendants of Abraham.
Israel may never have a better opportunity.
Let these occupiers go to Jordan. Go to Egypt. Go to Syria. Even go to Gaza.
But it's time to go.

What "occupiers"?

I'm not much of a history teacher. But you are welcome to read about the Arab-Israeli war and the 6-day war at your leisure.

And? Does this nullify the Palestinians´ right to have a nation?

And...that's kind of why the EU is charting a rocky course

Ummm ... no. The EU is plotting a rocky course because a) they allowed poorer EU states unlimited spending of the resources of the more solvent EU states and b) their predilection for open-borders extended far beyond the common culture of the European-states and they began filling their states with people who not only didn't share common values but showed no interest in adopting them.

I don't suggest for a moment that all Middle Eastern cultures are the same. The Middle East is chock-a-block with cultures, Arab, Jewish, Persian, Coptic, Greek, Turk ... However, the the Palestinian Arabs are Arabs. They share the same culture, history, language, and values of many nations who self-identify as Arab countries.

But, at this point, no one is seriously considering expulsion of Arab Palestinians from the disputed territories. Most people are willing to wait for the representative leaders of the Palestinian Arabs to come to the table as honest brokers and negotiate a border acceptable to reasonable folk on both sides. Until then, all else is a dorm-room bull session.

I think that is part of the EU problem, but that doesn't explain the rise in nationalism and cultural identity we are seeing.

The Palestinians are a mixture of ethnic Arabs and many other peoples including those indiginous to the area. Many of them have lived there for generations, if not hundreds or thousands of years. You don't just expel them any more than you expel the Jews.

The peace process is stalled not only because of the lack of a coherent leadership among the Palestinians but also Israel's own actions in settlement building. It's a mess.

". . .the lack of a coherent leadership among the Palestinians.."


well, half of them are terrorists. lack of 'coherency' - runs rampant among terrorists.

 

[Penelope]

....kick the Arab occupiers out of The West Bank and East Jerusalem?
This is The Promised Land. Promised from God to the descendants of Abraham.
Israel may never have a better opportunity.
Let these occupiers go to Jordan. Go to Egypt. Go to Syria. Even go to Gaza.
But it's time to go.

No God never promised anything to Abraham, who probably was a schizo, and the occupiers are the Israelis.

 

[Penelope]

Why isn't anyone talking about that dirty last minute slap in the face to the Trump administration by Kerry's State Dept. with a gift of 221 million dollars to the PLO? Trump should confiscate that money and put it toward building the Wall.

That was their aid, why we give 3.8 billion a years is beyond me.