UK headlines "Boris is honest". Boris self describes and tells another lie.

[frigidweirdo]

Blair took the party and sold it to the financial centre. Starmer is just managing the fine details. It is why the FBU firefighters union is under pressure to leave the party--Labour no longer represents the actual workers.

Yeah, and Blair is the ONLY leader of the party to have been elected PM in 45 years.

What does that say?

 

[alexa]

Labour will always be in a difficult position. It has far left members, further left members and center left members. The party can't join together to fight the Tories, the far left simply won't let it happen, they feel the need to go for broke. They undermined Blair at every opportunity, they thought that because Labour was in power, THEY were in power, but they weren't.

Now, there's only one solution to this, and that's going for Proportional Representation so the far left can go get the far left votes, the further left can go get the further left votes and the center left can go get the center left votes.

It's why I see the Lib Dems are more logical these days, because the Lib Dems have wanted electoral reform, but went for AV instead of PR and AV is FPTP lite and a waste of time. Go full in, get PR with left wing votes and change the country and stop the Tories destroying everything.

The 'far left' have been largely expelled from the Party so they no longer exist in the Party. For a long time they seemed to be intending on continuing to vote for Labour but I think that is gradually changing with their votes going elsewhere. When Corbyn was leader the right of the Pasty worked to make sure that he would not get elected. That was more important to them than getting into Government.

You have basically two centrist parties. The only difference is that to the left of these two centrist parties they want the slide down for the majority to be gradual and to still include to some degree human rights - it makes them feel better about themselves. Then you have those on the far right who are described as being involved in a 'race to the bottom'. Here they see little need for rights or helping people. I suspect we are moving into that now. You do not need to worry about the 'left'. It is gone.

Apart from that a proper PR might help though frankly with the situation re climate change and the financial situation I am very pessimistic.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The 'far left' have been largely expelled from the Party so they no longer exist in the Party. For a long time they seemed to be intending on continuing to vote for Labour but I think that is gradually changing with their votes going elsewhere. When Corbyn was leader the right of the Pasty worked to make sure that he would not get elected. That was more important to them than getting into Government.

You have basically two centrist parties. The only difference is that to the left of these two centrist parties they want the slide down for the majority to be gradual and to still include to some degree human rights - it makes them feel better about themselves. Then you have those on the far right who are described as being involved in a 'race to the bottom'. Here they see little need for rights or helping people. I suspect we are moving into that now. You do not need to worry about the 'left'. It is gone.

Apart from that a proper PR might help though frankly with the situation re climate change and the financial situation I am very pessimistic.

I think some people saw Corbyn as a Socialist and a lot of people don't want to go back to that. Corbyn failed to control the narrative and he lost.

The financial situation will change, with PR the country would have more sensible policies and less Tories to mess up education. Climate Change could be an issue, but then again an ice age is probably on the way soon anyway (relative to the 100,000 year cycle, rather than our lives)

 

[alexa]

I think some people saw Corbyn as a Socialist and a lot of people don't want to go back to that. Corbyn failed to control the narrative and he lost.

The financial situation will change, with PR the country would have more sensible policies and less Tories to mess up education. Climate Change could be an issue, but then again an ice age is probably on the way soon anyway (relative to the 100,000 year cycle, rather than our lives)

He was a Democratic Socialist. Prior to Blair we were a Social Democracy and the sort of things which Labour come out with now would have been way too right for the Tories.

Corbyn's biggest mistake I think was in apologising straight away to the claims that Labour had become an antisemetic Party under him. He should just have said strongly that he was sorry to hear that, that he would check things out and make sure this was not so, In reality research showed that antisemitism went down in the Labour Party when he was leader. I think that was his biggest mistake. It has been suggested he was just too hurt at this accusation when he had spent his entire life fighting such things but Corbyn was not necessarily Leadership quality for a current Goverrnment. As far as 'going back to it' I think you possibly are projecting your own position onto the rest of us. Starmer promised to continue with some of his policies and to allow space for both the left and right of the party. He was elected on that. He has not led by that. Frankly he comes over as someone who does not have his own vision and is being controlled.

In order to get the climate issue sorted out when we apparently have eight years to avoid the very worst - that is we are going to have to deal with serious change now, that cannot be avoided but we have eight years and eight years only to sort things out to avoid catastrophic climate change. Capitalism and its need for constant growth is seen as being a chief issue in climate damage so if we want to survive we are going to need to move into a more collective way of working. Your knowledge on that needs brought up to date for your survival.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I think some people saw Corbyn as a Socialist and a lot of people don't want to go back to that. Corbyn failed to control the narrative and he lost.

The financial situation will change, with PR the country would have more sensible policies and less Tories to mess up education. Climate Change could be an issue, but then again an ice age is probably on the way soon anyway (relative to the 100,000 year cycle, rather than our lives)

We have PR in Wales and it is being extended. Labour in Wales is prepared to work with other parties.

They have a deal with \Plaid who are more left wing than Labour and it is doing very well. Free school meals for kids, voting for 16 year olds. Its all good socialist stuff and the world hasnt stopped turning.

Another Plaid policyy is the proposed tourist tax which had been denounced as communism by the Welsh tories. Sadly for them the tories in England have just introduced it as a policy on the wrong side of the border..

Starmer has realised, like Blair, that he has to neutralise the UK press if he wants to get elected. I dont have a problem with that. I just want the tories out.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

He was a Democratic Socialist. Prior to Blair we were a Social Democracy and the sort of things which Labour come out with now would have been way too right for the Tories.

Corbyn's biggest mistake I think was in apologising straight away to the claims that Labour had become an antisemetic Party under him. He should just have said strongly that he was sorry to hear that, that he would check things out and make sure this was not so, In reality research showed that antisemitism went down in the Labour Party when he was leader. I think that was his biggest mistake. It has been suggested he was just too hurt at this accusation when he had spent his entire life fighting such things but Corbyn was not necessarily Leadership quality for a current Goverrnment. As far as 'going back to it' I think you possibly are projecting your own position onto the rest of us. Starmer promised to continue with some of his policies and to allow space for both the left and right of the party. He was elected on that. He has not led by that. Frankly he comes over as someone who does not have his own vision and is being controlled.

In order to get the climate issue sorted out when we apparently have eight years to avoid the very worst - that is we are going to have to deal with serious change now, that cannot be avoided but we have eight years and eight years only to sort things out to avoid catastrophic climate change. Capitalism and its need for constant growth is seen as being a chief issue in climate damage so if we want to survive we are going to need to move into a more collective way of working. Your knowledge on that needs brought up to date for your survival.

I think Corbyn was s bit too other worldly to be an effective leader. The anti semitism thing was a tory campaign and I was never given examples of it ever.
What I do know is that any criticism of the state of Israel leads to a charge of anti semitism. Ive seen it myself at first hand.

 

[ESay]

They have a deal with \Plaid who are more left wing than Labour and it is doing very well. Free school meals for kids, voting for 16 year olds. Its all good socialist stuff and the world hasnt stopped turning

What is the reason to allow voting in this age? That is too early.

 

[alexa]

I think Corbyn was s bit too other worldly to be an effective leader. The anti semitism thing was a tory campaign and I was never given examples of it ever.
What I do know is that any criticism of the state of Israel leads to a charge of anti semitism. Ive seen it myself at first hand.

Funnily enough the antisemitism thing was started by the right of Labour and I don't think they were Jews. That is what happened during his time and now yes, any criticism of Israel is called antisemitism but Israel now is far right playing as much to the tune of American Christian Zionists. Netanyahu has been working with them since the idea of a two state solution to make sure it does not happen.

 

[alexa]

What is the reason to allow voting in this age? That is too early.

We have that in Scotland and I think it is a good thing. It started with the Referendum and probably was because they hoped they would vote yes but it is an excellent way of getting them involved in Politics and still being at school they also can learn how to research things so that they can vote for what they believe is best for them. I grant they have no experience but society has been so non active in Politics since the 80's or earlier I think it is a good idea. They did seem to make sure they were voting for what they wanted in the Referendum.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

What is the reason to allow voting in this age? That is too early.

No taxation without representation. Old enugh to work and pay taxes. Old enough to vote.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

We have that in Scotland and I think it is a good thing. It started with the Referendum and probably was because they hoped they would vote yes but it is an excellent way of getting them involved in Politics and still being at school they also can learn how to research things so that they can vote for what they believe is best for them. I grant they have no experience but society has been so non active in Politics since the 80's or earlier I think it is a good idea. They did seem to make sure they were voting for what they wanted in the Referendum.

We have a youth parliament in Wales as well.

 

[ESay]

We have that in Scotland and I think it is a good thing. It started with the Referendum and probably was because they hoped they would vote yes but it is an excellent way of getting them involved in Politics and still being at school they also can learn how to research things so that they can vote for what they believe is best for them. I grant they have no experience but society has been so non active in Politics since the 80's or earlier I think it is a good idea. They did seem to make sure they were voting for what they wanted in the Referendum.

I think that the main flaw of democracy is voters, despite how ridiculous it may sound. Too many people vote out of their ignorance, bias, emotions and so on. The main goal of a democratic society should be a mindful and informed voter. In theory.

People in their teens usually have different priorities than older ones. And politics isn't one of them.

 

[ESay]

No taxation without representation. Old enugh to work and pay taxes. Old enough to vote.

Yeah, but not old enough to buy beer or serve in the army. When I hear this argument about work and taxation, I want to propose to take away voting rights from those who don't work or pay taxes. It is a logical line, isn't it?

 

[toobfreak]

Boris Johnsonâs âout of touchâ comments on cost of living crisis anger Tory MPs

PM’s interview on Good Morning Britain causes concern about party’s performance in upcoming local elections

www.theguardian.com

And we all start laughing. the fat liar claimed he was an honest man in a live interview on monday. It became a national headline and the clip went viral.

Such is the low point the country is at. The Prime Mnister claiming he is an honest man is a bigger story than Ukraine.

It has never been this bad before no matter how shit our leadership has been.

He had a good arse kicking on thursday when the tories lost 500 council seats in the local elections. There are no tory councils in Wales or Scotland now and they have also lost councils that they have held forever.

Labour and the Liberals have taken advantage of his dishonesty and the tories have been plotting since thursday about how to get the lying bastard out.

I would prefer him to stay as he is an absolute liability for the tories. The forces of good will profit from his presence at the next election.

Boris is da bomb and gets my vote as best PM ever. Hope he stays in office another 20 years! Even better if he dyes his hair blond-orange and starts combing it forward like our great American leader Trump!

 

[toobfreak]

Thinking people in America know all about that other side and their ignorant base

Thinking people don't think that which proves you are not a thinking person.

As bad as Johnson might appear to you, the man is a combination of Gandhi and Elon Musk compared to Trump.

Then Johnson must be like a combination of Jesus Christ and the Buddha compared to Dirty Bum Joe Biddum.

 

[alexa]

I think that the main flaw of democracy is voters, despite how ridiculous it may sound. Too many people vote out of their ignorance, bias, emotions and so on. The main goal of a democratic society should be a mindful and informed voter. In theory.

People in their teens usually have different priorities than older ones. And politics isn't one of them.

Me:
Tocqueville believed hat the most important thing for Democracy to work was that people kept informed. Tocqueville saw this happening in the pubs. That people would chat about politics there and become politically informed. To some extent this was what used to happen in working Men's Clubs which Unions set up. People would get support there and a Political education. Unfortunately Thatcher got rid of most of our Unions which are a vital ingredient of Capitalism and not only did people lose the support but also the political education. What is going on with the kids who can vote again from 16 is a try at getting that orientation back in them. I t is definitely worth a try imo.
Unfortunately we are living in a time when even the information which one receives can be filtered to get you to vote a particular way and this is due to get much worse.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Yeah, but not old enough to buy beer or serve in the army. When I hear this argument about work and taxation, I want to propose to take away voting rights from those who don't work or pay taxes. It is a logical line, isn't it?

And deprive pensioners of their vote ?

 

[ESay]

People in their teens usually have different priorities than older ones. And politics isn't one of them.

Me:
Tocqueville believed hat the most important thing for Democracy to work was that people kept informed. Tocqueville saw this happening in the pubs. That people would chat about politics there and become politically informed. To some extent this was what used to happen in working Men's Clubs which Unions set up. People would get support there and a Political education. Unfortunately Thatcher got rid of most of our Unions which are a vital ingredient of Capitalism and not only did people lose the support but also the political education. What is going on with the kids who can vote again from 16 is a try at getting that orientation back in them. I t is definitely worth a try imo.
Unfortunately we are living in a time when even the information which one receives can be filtered to get you to vote a particular way and this is due to get much worse.

Well, not sure that I get what Unions have to do with voting rights of the teens. In my opinion, if you want the teens to be familiar with how democracy works, how to choose between candidates, what a voter can do to control their representatives etc. then it is better to implement the system of partial self-governance in high schools and colleges.

 

[ESay]

And deprive pensioners of their vote ?

If follow this logical chain, then yes. But it is no me who uses it.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

If follow this logical chain, then yes. But it is no me who uses it.

The kids have a bigger stake in society because they have longer to live in it.