UK headlines "Boris is honest". Boris self describes and tells another lie.

[alexa]

Well, not sure that I get what Unions have to do with voting rights of the teens.

Let me check what I said.;

To some extent this was what used to happen in working Men's Clubs which Unions set up. People would get support there and a Political education. Unfortunately Thatcher got rid of most of our Unions which are a vital ingredient of Capitalism and not only did people lose the support but also the political education.

.

This is about how workers used to get an education on Politics. It isn't about the children so much as to say that we have lost this source of Political Education. The parents would get educated and educate their children. During that time we were a Social Democracy and I would say our Democracy was working well. However after Thatcher followed by Blair had introduced Neo Liberalism and allowed Monopolies - something which my parents generation would not tolerate, people started to feel their vote could do nothing to change the situation. I believe that one part of that was getting rid of Unions which are a necessity in a Capitalist Democracy to give the workers some rights. A few Unions still exist but in most places they are gone and so are the working men's clubs where they used to offer support and a political education.

The kids coming along now are not going to get any of that. I am not sure the age but lets say 35. People 35 and younger tend not to vote. They don't vote because they believe it will change nothing. To some extent I think today we probably do need a bit more but if they were to vote they would be able to get things because then Politicians would look to see what there needs were and try and bribe them to vote for them. At the moment it is the over 60's who are the most likely to vote and so who Politicians keep their eye on.

We want to get people back into politics again. That is why we are starting with the kids and helping them to learn how to go about it.

In my opinion, if you want the teens to be familiar with how democracy works, how to choose between candidates, what a voter can do to control their representatives etc. then it is better to implement the system of partial self-governance in high schools and colleges.

well that may well be going on as well.

 

[ESay]

The kids have a bigger stake in society because they have longer to live in it.

So, deprive pensioners of their vote?

 

[ESay]

Let me check what I said.; .

This is about how workers used to get an education on Politics. It isn't about the children so much as to say that we have lost this source of Political Education. The parents would get educated and educate their children. During that time we were a Social Democracy and I would say our Democracy was working well. However after Thatcher followed by Blair had introduced Neo Liberalism and allowed Monopolies - something which my parents generation would not tolerate, people started to feel their vote could do nothing to change the situation. I believe that one part of that was getting rid of Unions which are a necessity in a Capitalist Democracy to give the workers some rights. A few Unions still exist but in most places they are gone and so are the working men's clubs where they used to offer support and a political education.

The kids coming along now are not going to get any of that. I am not sure the age but lets say 35. People 35 and younger tend not to vote. They don't vote because they believe it will change nothing. To some extent I think today we probably do need a bit more but if they were to vote they would be able to get things because then Politicians would look to see what there needs were and try and bribe them to vote for them. At the moment it is the over 60's who are the most likely to vote and so who Politicians keep their eye on.

We want to get people back into politics again. That is why we are starting with the kids and helping them to learn how to go about it.

well that may well be going on as well.

Well, I don't understand this logic. First of all, the young people tend to be more indifferent in politics than the older ones. This tendency is universal.

Then, if people don't trust the system and think that their vote changes nothing, it won't help much if you add a couple of million voters. Parents don't talk with their kids about politics, schools don't teach them about it, political talk shows aren't on the list of their preferences at this age.

Where are they supposed to get knowledge about these things? They don't have proper experience in economics and social matters.

Above you virtually said the electoral base has become ignorant. And you propose to add to that more ignorant people. I think you will make things worse.

 

[alexa]

Well, I don't understand this logic. First of all, the young people tend to be more indifferent in politics than the older ones. This tendency is universal.

Then, if people don't trust the system and think that their vote changes nothing, it won't help much if you add a couple of million voters. Parents don't talk with their kids about politics, schools don't teach them about it, political talk shows aren't on the list of their preferences at this age.

Where are they supposed to get knowledge about these things? They don't have proper experience in economics and social matters.
The West at the moment is
Above you virtually said the electoral base has become ignorant. And you propose to add to that more ignorant people. I think you will make things worse.

You have such fixed views in this there is little way forward. The West at the moment is in the same sort of political situation that it was prior to WW2. People do not trust their Politicians. Some believe everything is fake news and in that, in their own group are very easy to manipulate. We are economically much in the same situation as we were economically prior to WW2 though in fact that is much exaggerated. In WW2 our Governments had to answer first to the very rich and worked with Monopolies who obviously wanted what was best for them. Hence and this is the besetting sin of Capitalism, the Government has to go by what they want first rather than what is good for the people. It is the responsibility of a Government in a Democracy to not let businesses become so important that they can basically make Government do what they want. This had happened prior to WW2 in possibly most places and from that we learned that Corporate Power working alongside Government creates Fascism. When a Government is acting like this it is not working like a Democratic Government. I would say the Westminster Government at the moment is very like that. So there is nothing simple in this and what we find is that younger voters, not just 16 year olds but up to 40's maybe higher tend to be drawn to people like Corbyn and the kind of way he worked - Out of door meetings for people who just want to hear what he says and are not already one of his, which is how politics used to be. They want to be politically active and make change rather than just going for what is best for them. Now you are becoming insulting with this.

Above you virtually said the electoral base has become ignorant. And you propose to add to that more ignorant people. I think you will make things worse.

. I have given above a brief description of what our democracy is like at the moment. I get that you believe that 16 year olds are incapable of taking the time to think what they want from their country and you are entitled to that idea. I do not however have any further interest in you continuing your poor evaluation to have goes at me. It gets nowhere. I have a grand daughter soon to be 14. I can tell you that if she got the opportunity to vote and was told it was important to look at all the sides before coming to her decision, I know without any need to think that she would take the situation very seriously because she would be aware that she was having the opportunity to build the sort of country she wanted, She is 14 not 16. You have a stereotype of kids which may fit those you know but nonetheless is a stereotype.

 

[ESay]

You have such fixed views in this there is little way forward. The West at the moment is in the same sort of political situation that it was prior to WW2. People do not trust their Politicians. Some believe everything is fake news and in that, in their own group are very easy to manipulate. We are economically much in the same situation as we were economically prior to WW2 though in fact that is much exaggerated. In WW2 our Governments had to answer first to the very rich and worked with Monopolies who obviously wanted what was best for them. Hence and this is the besetting sin of Capitalism, the Government has to go by what they want first rather than what is good for the people. It is the responsibility of a Government in a Democracy to not let businesses become so important that they can basically make Government do what they want. This had happened prior to WW2 in possibly most places and from that we learned that Corporate Power working alongside Government creates Fascism. When a Government is acting like this it is not working like a Democratic Government. I would say the Westminster Government at the moment is very like that. So there is nothing simple in this and what we find is that younger voters, not just 16 year olds but up to 40's maybe higher tend to be drawn to people like Corbyn and the kind of way he worked - Out of door meetings for people who just want to hear what he says and are not already one of his, which is how politics used to be. They want to be politically active and make change rather than just going for what is best for them. Now you are becoming insulting with this. . I have given above a brief description of what our democracy is like at the moment. I get that you believe that 16 year olds are incapable of taking the time to think what they want from their country and you are entitled to that idea. I do not however have any further interest in you continuing your poor evaluation to have goes at me. It gets nowhere. I have a grand daughter soon to be 14. I can tell you that if she got the opportunity to vote and was told it was important to look at all the sides before coming to her decision, I know without any need to think that she would take the situation very seriously because she would be aware that she was having the opportunity to build the sort of country she wanted, She is 14 not 16. You have a stereotype of kids which may fit those you know but nonetheless is a stereotype.

Okay. I think that we have expressed our points as best as we could. And I think we should agree to disagree. People rarely change their views in such discussions, that is okay.

 

[frigidweirdo]

We have PR in Wales and it is being extended. Labour in Wales is prepared to work with other parties.

They have a deal with \Plaid who are more left wing than Labour and it is doing very well. Free school meals for kids, voting for 16 year olds. Its all good socialist stuff and the world hasnt stopped turning.

Another Plaid policyy is the proposed tourist tax which had been denounced as communism by the Welsh tories. Sadly for them the tories in England have just introduced it as a policy on the wrong side of the border..

Starmer has realised, like Blair, that he has to neutralise the UK press if he wants to get elected. I dont have a problem with that. I just want the tories out.

Yes, the problem with FPTP is that the media has a much stronger influence on voting than it should. Starmer isn't doing a good job with the media, I'm not sure who would be able to do a good job in Labour. But they aren't even making good on the Tories' ineptitude.